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marnold
August 18th, 2011, 09:26 AM
NBD(S) meaning: New Bass Day (Soon)

As discussed in this thread (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php/18950) I was thinking about replacing the pickups in my bass. The two EMGs I wanted were going to end up in the vicinity of $200. That would, of course, include pots, jack, etc. Then I came across this ESP LTD Surveyor 414 on Musician's Friend (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/esp-ltd-surveyor-414-electric-bass-guitar/620050000010000). It has The EMG 35P4 pickup I was looking for at the neck (which is their P-bass pickup in a soapbar) and the EMG MMTW in the bridge. That is their Music Man pickup with the extra feature that if you "coil tap" it then it becomes their J-bass pickup in a soapbar. Pretty cool and flexible. Plus it comes with EMG's B30 preamp which has bass, treble, and mid boost/cut. For whatever reason they are blowing them out for $299. The list price was $999. I think it's because the new ones are in stock. FWIW, they are selling the new one, which seems to be EXACTLY the same for $769. Also FWIW, the bass is made in Korea.

I asked my dear wife about it last night and got the go-ahead. I was actually looking at getting the one with the transparent blue finish but by time I went to order last night they were sold out. I like the au natural look too. That does mean that I'll have to sell my Spector but I don't think that'll be an issue. I'm pretty excited about it. I suppose now that I have a bass with an MM pickup, I'm going to need to learn some Louis Johnson licks.

I just got word that it shipped, so I imagine it will be here on Monday. At that point I'll post pics and clips. For now, you can read Bass Guitar magazine's review (http://www.bassguitarmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100:esp-ltd-surveyor-400-4-string-issue-29&catid=37:bassguitars) of an earlier version that is just like it.

Eric
August 18th, 2011, 10:51 AM
I knew it. Congrats -- I hope it's a good player.

NWBasser
August 18th, 2011, 11:44 AM
Ooooh cool!!

I had an ESP very briefly and returned it for an Ibanez SR500. It was a very good quality bass, but it had a 35-inch scale that I couldn't live with.

This one you ordered is 34 and so should be close to what you're used to on the Spector.

I really like the PU combo.

That's an incredible deal for a swamp ash body and that electronic package!

marnold
August 18th, 2011, 12:00 PM
I really like the PU combo.

That's an incredible deal for a swamp ash body and that electronic package!
I know! That's why I abandoned the upgrade plan. It's not that my Spector is a bad bass--it's not. It's just that I can't get the pickups to produce the same cool acoustic tone it has. With a swamp ash body and a maple fretboard it should be somewhat brighter than my basswood/rosewood Spector. Active controls will help as well.

NWBasser
August 18th, 2011, 12:07 PM
I know! That's why I abandoned the upgrade plan. It's not that my Spector is a bad bass--it's not. It's just that I can't get the pickups to produce the same cool acoustic tone it has. With a swamp ash body and a maple fretboard it should be somewhat brighter than my basswood/rosewood Spector. Active controls will help as well.

With the active EQ and PU combinations, that one should have a heap of great tones on tap!

BTW - I really like swamp ash for basses.

Katastrophe
August 18th, 2011, 12:43 PM
Cool! Congrats, man!

I can't wait to see pics of your new bass.

progrmr
August 18th, 2011, 12:46 PM
THAT is the most natural looking bass I've ever seen! congrats!

Tig
August 18th, 2011, 02:20 PM
With the active EQ and PU combinations, that one should have a heap of great tones on tap!

BTW - I really like swamp ash for basses.

+1 Excellent combo for all kinds of tones.

HNBD, Marnold!

Spudman
August 18th, 2011, 04:40 PM
Congrats on your new rumble stick. It sounds like a pretty good instrument. I'm interested in the report.

Eric
August 18th, 2011, 07:36 PM
I really dig the natural finish on guitars and basses. I kind of remember the blue you were going to get, and that was cool too, but I'll almost always vote for natural.

On a semi-related topic, whenever I see/hear swamp ash referenced, my brain always thinks of "swamp ***."

Duffy
August 19th, 2011, 04:00 AM
Very excellent Marnold. The Natural looks mighty fine as well. I was, I'll admit, quite taken aback at the blue one with the maple board.

I would love to have a bass with active EMG pickups and that combination is quite excellent. This should rig up with your Acoustic quite well indeed. I'm thinking that is going to be a great natural sounding combination that produces some tones that will build milestones in your personal history.

So you have a bass multipedal? I have the Zoom B2.1u with usb direct to tthe computer for recording, which is cool. It is a decent bass pedal but I'm sure there are nicer ones out there. Charity's nephew picked up a Line six big old multipedal with lots of controls, etc. My Zoom will work for now, but maybe someday I'll get a better one. I have my Fender P bass with flatwounds out tonight and I like it, but my new Ibanez SR500 sits close at hand with it's own tonal brew just waiting to be unleashed.

My Fender Rumble 100 is not a bedroom slouch and is well made and produces decent tones, but I can imagine upgrading to a twelve inch Workingmans Pro SWR or something else with a lot more potential. I need to try out one of those decent sized Acoustics at GC one of these days. I'm also concerned about those Ampegs they have by me which, some of which, sound real impressive. They also have a bunch of Hartke's as well. Competition and new models might conspire with the Labor Day sales to reveal some half way decent deals. Times may change by then, as predicted, and another tube guitar amp might be in line, like a BS Club 40 or something. I played a Stage 60 yesterday and it was like a big brother to the Club 40, sporting some of the same sharp features.I played a few Schecters that felt a little weak but then settled into a spalted top Michael Kelly Patriot LTD with direct mount Rockfields that hit the mark with the Stage 60 but I had to pass it off to a dude I met and had to roll unexpectedly. I hope he found it as inspiring as me.

They also have a few decent basses I want to check out, like two Schecters in deep wine curly maple and flammed with soapbars; and also a G&L 1200 with three mini toggles that I'd like to experiment with. The bass amps are big with ostentatiously featured preamp tue designs but not much in terms of tone. I think have one demure looking bass amp that doesn't draw any attention that actually sounds real good. They also have a antique burst Fender five string active J bass, used, on sale that is not unimpressive. Maybe I'll go over there today. This place is more of your "uptown" type of music store that caters to the old time so called "high class" element of big money piano purchasing segments of the enclave. Ironically their main salesman is a baby boomer long haired hippie guitar salesman and local bluesman of some pereminence and renown known as the "Kahuna", after which a limited edition Heritage LP copy model is named.

Anyway, that should be a bass of some beauty and significance, and considering the good work it will be put to in your hands, some true magnificance. Well I hope so anyway, and if the past is any indicator of the present I'm sure it will be put to good use; whether or not anyone but you notices its significance is probably inconsequential. But if this beauty keeps you going and drives deep into your musical veins to bring forth even more of your soul, it will have cranked out some mojo that most basses can only inertly dream of.

Seriously though, I hope this bass lives up to your greatest expectations and is a key that unlocks yet unopened volumes of your soul, and brings you and your congregation much happiness and eases sorrow. Isn't it awesome that music often transcends the mundane and draws forth the whole range of human emotion and spirituality, and does it with a sometimes breathtaking beauty and appropriateness that can only have come from God?

MAXIFUNK
August 19th, 2011, 05:40 PM
that looks great never played a bass with EMG'S.
enjoy love that look too my T-40 is all natural to love that look on a bass.

Duffy
August 19th, 2011, 07:19 PM
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/esp-ltd-surveyor-414-electric-bass-guitar

Is this the one you decided to get after the blue one sold out?

Mighty nice bass and active pickups too.

marnold
August 21st, 2011, 01:00 PM
Martin Luther said, "Next to the Word of God, the noble art of music is the greatest treasure in the world." Hard to argue with brother Martin.

That's the right bass, Duffy. It should be here tomorrow on ye olde big brown truck. I don't really need any effects, just a little overdrive on occasion.

It comes strung with SIT nickel strings in the gauge I prefer. It'll give me a chance to compare those to the DR Hi Beams I've been using.

NWBasser
August 21st, 2011, 05:54 PM
And we wait with baited breath...

marnold
August 21st, 2011, 07:29 PM
I was doing a bunch of searches on it in lieu of actually having it in hand. It has a Wilkinson bridge with brass saddles. I guess I should expect little touches like that on a bass with an MSRP of a grand. I also noticed that it is a top-loader like my Spector. I've also got a spare 9 volt ready in case of just such an emergency.

NWBasser
August 22nd, 2011, 01:03 PM
I finally read the review of it that you posted.

Should be an incredible bass and a complete steal at that price!

Shoot, if didn't already have enough basses around, I'd jump on one of these too.

I can't wait to see the pics and get a tone report.

marnold
August 22nd, 2011, 01:06 PM
I can't wait to see the pics and get a tone report.
Tell me about it. Every engine I hear sounds like a brown truck :)

marnold
August 22nd, 2011, 03:45 PM
OK, here's the first pictures. No, the focus is not the turtle sandbox or the hose, Spud.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qb0fDbTWqHw/TlLKtJ0sELI/AAAAAAAABGU/Dz-gSCidMCg/s800/IMG_1372.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ssFpbT-6LTU/TlLMPOk0xRI/AAAAAAAABGw/32cgvY7f4_g/s800/IMG_1375.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MytEpfxhaxM/TlLMiYFtxyI/AAAAAAAABG0/ds_G7f6gwWs/s800/IMG_1377.JPG

I took the cavity covers off so you could see the wiring.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pxktwFup6po/TlLMxv1Q5JI/AAAAAAAABG8/Wmq6HUHQY98/s800/IMG_1379.JPG

Eric
August 22nd, 2011, 03:56 PM
Awesome. That actually looks like one big chunk of wood in the body, whereas some of the other pics I've seen made it look like the center had a different grain. Not sure what it actually is, but the point is that yours looks even prettier than the ones I've seen online. That's a sweet looking bass. HNBD!

You're getting to be the king of closeout deals, huh?

Tig
August 22nd, 2011, 04:12 PM
Love the wood grain!

HNBD!!!

marnold
August 22nd, 2011, 04:12 PM
I feel obligated to point out the "bad" things I noticed right away. First, and most disappointing, was the back of the headstock that reads "Indonesia." I know ESP makes LTDs in various factories around the world, but I thought this one was Korean. The top horn looks darker, but that's the way the wood grain is. Actually, the grain looks better on the back than the front, I think. The body also looks oddly yellow under fluorescent light. Looks very cool under natural light though as seen above. The acoustic tone is nice, although I think I prefer the acoustic tone of my Spector. That may be due to the difference between the SIT nickel strings vs. the DR stainless strings.

OK, with the parade piddling out of the way, the good parts are that it was set up rather nicely. There is some buzzing on the lower frets on the G string but the saddle is much lower than the others. Easy fix. It came almost perfectly in tune. The intonation is very good as well. It probably could use a tiny bit more neck relief. I much prefer its bigger frets. It probably weighs a bit more than my Spector, but they are close. The wiring is decent, albeit a bit rat's-nesty. The cavities are coated in shielding paint.

Setting my amph and the onboard EQ flat, I found that "it" factor I was missing with my Spector. Active EMGs were definitely the recipe. The EQ gives you tons of tonal variety that a passive just can't give. Cranking the treble will add a decent bit of noise, though. I especially like the 35P4 pickup, like I hoped it would. P-bass purists would say it doesn't sound exactly like a passive p-bass pickup. It is exactly what my mind thought EMG's take on a p-bass would be like. The MMTW is big and bombastic. It's about as subtle as a punch in the face. Switching it into j-bass mode is a night-and-day kind of change. Much quieter and brighter. The J and P combo is very nice indeed.

I'll try to get some clips posted tonight. Hopefully the bass will record decently through my phone.

marnold
August 22nd, 2011, 04:18 PM
Awesome. That actually looks like one big chunk of wood in the body, whereas some of the other pics I've seen made it look like the center had a different grain. Not sure what it actually is, but the point is that yours looks even prettier than the ones I've seen online. That's a sweet looking bass. HNBD!
They did a pretty decent job with keeping the grain looking good. It's actually a three-piece body. The top piece ends about 1/2" above the pickups. The bottom piece is just barely beneath the pickups.


You're getting to be the king of closeout deals, huh?
I've been fortunate to find things like this and also have the cash to do something about it, yes.

bcdon
August 22nd, 2011, 04:26 PM
Very nice, congratulations!! :dude

marnold
August 22nd, 2011, 05:55 PM
OK, here's my first attempt at a clip. I wanted to make sure that this would work with my phone before doing anything else. All tone settings both on the bass and amph are flat--straight up on the amph and at the center detente on the bass. I play the main lick to the Smithereen's "Blood and Roses" twice for each setting. First is the neck 35P4 alone, then the neck plus the bridge in MM mode, then the neck plus the bridge in J mode, then the bridge alone in MM mode, finally the bridge alone in J mode. I played with a pick because my technique is better than way.

LTD Bass Test (http://www.box.net/shared/9qeicj8iraikk9tdzmn0)

One thing that should be mind-bogglingly obvious is that the bridge pup in MM mode is LOUD. I instinctively wanted to back off my picking to compensate. As I said, subtle as a punch in the face. This was not an attempt to show off my skillz because obviously I have none. It's just a simple pickup test. I'll try to record more interesting things later.

NWBasser
August 22nd, 2011, 06:05 PM
Happy New Bass Day!

Congratulations Marnold!

That one sounds very nice. It has a sweet growl to it.

I wouldn't really sweat the Indonesian manufacture. It's my understanding that Cort, who makes pretty much all these basses for ESP, Lakland, Ibanez, Schecter, Musicman, etc. moved its production to Indonesia.

All reports that I've read suggest that there has been no change in quality.

stingx
August 22nd, 2011, 07:26 PM
I don't see the picture, Rev! I've been waiting to see this :(

marnold
August 22nd, 2011, 07:45 PM
I don't see the picture, Rev! I've been waiting to see this :(
Hmm. I linked to my Picasa account. That's the same way I've posted pictures on here before. Try this link: https://picasaweb.google.com/semprini/ESPLTDSurveyor414?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKSMg9S2466MWQ&feat=directlink

Katastrophe
August 22nd, 2011, 08:20 PM
Congrats again! That is one beauty of a bass.

Duffy
August 22nd, 2011, 09:05 PM
I like the full bridge pickup sound the best, but some of the other positions would probably sound great to me if adjusted on the bass and amp and maybe with a pedal.

Definitely looks great though. Better than the pictures on line by far.

Do you get more volume out of your amp because of the active pre amped pickups? Seems like you are hitting the amps preamp with a much stronger signal than with a passive rig. It seems like that should make any amp volume setting sound louder than with a passive bass. Maybe your other bass was active too.

marnold
August 22nd, 2011, 09:58 PM
I like the full bridge pickup sound the best, but some of the other positions would probably sound great to me if adjusted on the bass and amp and maybe with a pedal.
Yeah, I just wanted to give a quick rundown of the basic tones. Having fiddled with the EQ a bit, it is very clear that the mid control and I will be good friends. Talk about growl. The tonal possibilities are considerably greater than my old bass.


Definitely looks great though. Better than the pictures on line by far.
The irony is that I'm not sure how I like the looks. The neck is great. The pickups and preamp are beyond what I hoped for. Even the bridge is cool. Just not sure about how the body looks . . .


Do you get more volume out of your amp because of the active pre amped pickups? Seems like you are hitting the amps preamp with a much stronger signal than with a passive rig. It seems like that should make any amp volume setting sound louder than with a passive bass. Maybe your other bass was active too.
In general it is hotter. The full MM pickup is REALLY loud. Cranking the preamp, of course, makes it even louder. My Spector has passive EMG HZs with no preamp. I was never that fond of the tone nor the output of the pickups.

Duffy
August 23rd, 2011, 12:48 AM
I like it when people do audio samples with the exact same guitar and amp settings and just play the guitar, or bass in this case, straight up, just adjusting the pickup selections. With my new Ibanez SR500 it would be hard to do that because it has an active preamp with a pickup blend knob instead of a three way switch. I guess I could do a full neck, both at the indent on the knob, and a full bridge; and maybe even half way between on each side of the indent. It is a very great sounding bass with lots of growl. The growl will be greatly diminished when I put on the flatwound Ernie Ball strings I bought, but I like a mellow bass tone. Right now it can be mellow or really growl and I'm starting to like the growl; but it is so light and the neck is so thin that I play it a lot and I think I'm going to want to put the flats on it. I just seem to gravitate toward flats when it comes to bass but I don't care much for them on guitars.

I think I would adapt to the color with no problem. It really is a cool looking bass.

stingx
August 23rd, 2011, 10:51 AM
Hmm. I linked to my Picasa account. That's the same way I've posted pictures on here before. Try this link: https://picasaweb.google.com/semprini/ESPLTDSurveyor414?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKSMg9S2466MWQ&feat=directlink

Ooh...that's purty! Nice bass, enjoy!

marnold
August 23rd, 2011, 11:15 AM
Now that I think of it, the body/color looks somewhat like this talented gentleman's basses. I found a couple of shots where his look very yellow in certain lighting too. He is one of my top bass heroes.

http://www.themusicroom-online.co.uk/images/louis-johnson-bass-dvd.jpg

http://performanceguitar.com/gallery/rwx_gallery/1278627044_Louis%20Johnson%20plays%20Dragon%20Bass %20for%20Gallery.jpg

NWBasser
August 23rd, 2011, 11:23 AM
FWIW, I rather like the bass.

I noticed that it has a Musicman style truss rod wheel adjuster. That's a very cool feature.

The body looks like a Carvin LB series to me.

I'm with you on the EMG Hz series pup's. I've tried them and found the tone to be a bit lifeless and lacking in dynamics.

marnold
August 23rd, 2011, 03:03 PM
FWIW, I rather like the bass.

I noticed that it has a Musicman style truss rod wheel adjuster. That's a very cool feature.
Agreed. It makes tweaking much easier. It's got round holes on it so I had to use a small Philips head screw driver to tweak it today. I noticed that they gave me the "standard" ESP allen wrench set. Of the three wrenches only one actually is usable on my bass--that's the smallest one for height adjustments at the bridge. I guess you can always use extras :)

I'm really digging playing the P/J combo with a pick and the mids turned up. Growl city. I've also been trying to relearn slapping and popping. The latter is a problem with no index fingertip. I've been trying to use my pinkie. It seems to work decently anyway. I've also been trying to see how many of my old repertoire of bluegrass licks I remember. It's been 20 years.

Tig
August 23rd, 2011, 03:15 PM
Thanks for the bass GAS. :drool
That's all need... :thwap

marnold
August 24th, 2011, 03:17 PM
OK, I think I'm falling in love. There's just so many tone options it's ridiculous. The P pickup sounds fantastic no matter what technique I use. The aforementioned P/J combo sounds great with a pick. The J alone can do that bridge J bass solo kind of thing. I'm learning to tame the monster that is the MM. It has a tendency to be a bit muddy but a little EQing goes a long way. It definitely wouldn't work as a neck pickup. It needs to be near the bridge. My slapping and popping is getting better. I decided to try my short index finger for popping. I'm way more accurate that way. It hurts a bit. If I build up a callous I think I'll be OK.

With my Spector's pickups I had to work to get _a_ tone I liked. The LTD has a myriad of tones--all of which are varying degrees of good. Apparently I am an active EMG man when it comes to bass pickups. My little Acoustic amph is really getting a workout. The color is even growing on my in its yellowishness.

My 12-year-old son was amazed at the size of the tuning pegs. They are massive and seem to hold tune very nicely. Actually, the Jazz-sized nut width makes the headstock look ginormous. A friend of mine and I compared the LTD and the Spector side-by-side. The LTD looks really big next to the Spector. Because the LTD has 21 frets as opposed to the Spector's 24, the neck pickup can be much closer to the neck and the bridge can be a bit further from the bridge. I think those are both "good things" especially when it comes to the tone of the two pickups together. P-bass purists would probably complain that it pushes the P pickup too close to the neck (both the p-bass and the j-bass neck pickups are about half-way in between the neck and the bridge). The only disadvantage that I can see is that it limits my "window" for popping a little bit.

The fit and finish overall seem to be very good. The neck pickup isn't perfectly parallel to the body because the treble-side screw seems to be at a very slight angle. Also there seem to be minor marks slightly above the spot in between the neck pickup and the neck itself. It looks like someone was a bit careless with a screwdriver or something before it was clear-coated. You can't see it except at certain angles when you are right next to it. The neck fits snugly in the pocket. The strings do not bind at the nut at all. The nut is also the proper height so that the lowest frets are in tune. Sustain is very good. I like the Wilkinson bridge. Adjustments can be made very easily. The only setup things I've had to do have been for my personal preferences and playing style.

If I had paid $699 for it (the original sale price), I would have been happy with what I got for the money, although the whole "made in Indonesia" thing probably would have annoyed me. That wouldn't have been as annoying as having my wife shoot me for spending $700 on a bass. For $299, it's highway robbery. The pickups and preamp cost that much by themselves. I see no difference between this one and the Surveyor-400 that MF is currently selling for $769. The only change with the Surveyor-4 (which is selling for $649) is that it has block inlays and neck binding. Whoopee. With that one if you want a maple fretboard you can get it in any color you like as long as it's white.

NWBasser
August 24th, 2011, 06:08 PM
This is really great to hear Marnold.

Did it come with a case or gig bag for that price?

Now, if only a certain someone would give us a full report on a certain Prestige bass....:poke

marnold
August 24th, 2011, 06:37 PM
Did it come with a case or gig bag for that price?
No, but I've already got a nicely padded Access gig bag, so that's no biggie.

marnold
September 26th, 2011, 08:06 PM
One month later . . .

One clarification: I must've been on crack when I said that this bass weighs the same as my Spector. It's really not close. The LTD is substantially heavier. Still trying to find a postage scale so I can find out just how heavy it is. Now that the DR Fat Beams I put on there have settled down, I like this bass a lot. The stainless strings were an excellent addition. I really want to play this bass. I had to pick up my guitar the other day so it didn't feel lonely. I think playing bass is actually helping with my guitar skills. The flexibility of the pickup/preamp combo is something I really need if I'm only going to have one bass. I've also gotten over whatever qualms I had about the finish.

My only complaint is with the string tree. The windings in the strings get caught on it, making it harder to tune the D and G strings. I'm going to look for an alternative. I guess if my biggest gripe is with the string tree, that's a pretty good thing, eh? :)

marnold
September 29th, 2011, 08:55 AM
One final update (probably):

I finally got a strap on it today. Despite its heft, it doesn't _feel_ heavy, at least not for the time I was playing it. The relatively heavy body and Jazz-style neck means no neck dive at all, which is great. All in all it seems well-balanced, at least for my tastes.

NWBasser
September 29th, 2011, 09:40 AM
Unless it's Warwick sort of heavy (+12 lb.), a well-balanced bass will still be very comfortable even if it's on the portly side.

My G&L is a bit heavy, but well-balanced and comfortable.

Yes sir, that's one heckuva deal you got.

progrmr
September 29th, 2011, 09:55 AM
Man that looks nice! have you put it through some paces yet? How's it play/sound?

marnold
September 29th, 2011, 10:05 PM
Man that looks nice! have you put it through some paces yet? How's it play/sound?
I posted some clips and initial impressions on the first page of this thread. It plays really nicely and the variety of tones I can get with a P + MM/J combo and an active preamp is pretty remarkable. As much as I enjoy passive basses, I think that EMG is the way for me. It makes me want to play--can't come up with higher praise than that.

marnold
November 30th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Sold my Spector yesterday, so I'm back down to one guitar and one bass. I got roughly what I hoped for from it. Thankfully I had gotten a good deal on it originally.

Eric
November 30th, 2011, 05:22 PM
So I guess that means you like the new bass, eh?

marnold
November 30th, 2011, 08:29 PM
Yep, no question about that!

The purchase of the LTD was contingent on me selling the Spector. Took a bit longer than I wanted, but a couple of people who were interested in it took a bit of time getting back to me about it.