Car dies on the highway.. engine possibly trashed??

[poodlesrule]

Car dies on the highway this morning! Rush-hour, but I was lucky to be in the rightmost lane already so I was able to pull safely in break-down lane which is normally allowed for travel but luckily not in that SMALL section only!

Tow to shop.

Shop guy says there is no resistance, you can crank engine by hand! Woa!
He is thinking rebuilt engine or junking the car! (Subaru, 127,000 mi.), as the investigative work would be prohibitive, and would require yet more money to get something working...
Wife says junk it.

Anybody here with a suggestion as what to do, or look at next, mechanically?

[Retro Hound]

I think we need a little more info, but no resistance? Are the plugs out of it? The only thing I can even guess at it a head gasket. Or all your valves are bent. Depending on the condition of the rest of the car, it's probably worth a rebuilt engine.

[FrankenFretter]

Sounds like no compression. Bad news, it sounds like. If the rest of the car is in decent shape, a rebuilt engine is probably the least expensive solution.

[poodlesrule]

This Subaru engine line has had headgasket problems, and mine had its gaskets changed under 'semi-warranty" a few years ago.
Timing belt was changed a few months ago (by same shop) and car ran fine.

Funny thing how the breakdown was way quiet, like when you run out of gas or electrics cut out.

Mech. thinks crank may have broken(!), and does not *seem* eager to open her up... .
Car will need other things soon, like CV joints/axles, has some New-England winters rust. I had it for almost 11 years.

[Eric]

I have no idea, as my only experience with cars is changing oil, replacing brake pads, and getting estimates on the repair costs.

Hopefully you figure out what to do next -- I'm interested to know how this pans out.

[aeolian]

Sorry to hear about your car problem. Let me know when you eventually decide what to do.

I have a 2004 Legacy. This was preceded by a 1997 Legacy. The 1997 Legacy was rear ended and pushed into the car in front of me and totaled. I was stopped with about 10 cars in front of me waiting at a red light; the guy who plowed into me claimed he did not realize traffic was stopped.

The 2004 Legacy has around 55,000 miles on it, but the Subaru shop has told me that the head gaskets are leaking and it is $1500 to fix them. When I asked them how come it is so expensive they told me that it is because it is very labor intensive to pull apart two engine heads and fix the problem. I have been putting the problem off now for about 3 months, I don't know that I should put it off any longer, but $1500 is a lot of money. From what I remember of the 1997 I think the old Legacy is more trouble-free than my current one.

[poodlesrule]

I don't know how to do multiple quotes so...

Eric:
LOL, you did not read the original post: I quietly sneaked: "Wife says junk it."


aeolian:
From the little that I know, the 2. 5 engine series had had the head problem, and I think some others also did develop it. I would look into that engine series history. There is a Legacy forum, somewhere. like the Forester one I visit when problems arise. A bit on the mod and fanboy side, but there is a lot of good info and references there.
It is a bit sad that Sub has to recommend adding an additive to the coolant, apparently sealing the minute leaks.

[NWBasser]

Well, at least I will probably choose a Toyota for my next vehicle rather than a Subaru.

Sounds like they have some problems.

[Eric]

The 2004 Legacy has around 55,000 miles on it, but the Subaru shop has told me that the head gaskets are leaking and it is $1500 to fix them. When I asked them how come it is so expensive they told me that it is because it is very labor intensive to pull apart two engine heads and fix the problem. I have been putting the problem off now for about 3 months, I don't know that I should put it off any longer, but $1500 is a lot of money. From what I remember of the 1997 I think the old Legacy is more trouble-free than my current one.
I have a 1997 Outback on which I had to have the head gaskets replaced. It was actually more than $1500, so I don't think that's a bad price. I put it off as long as I could, actually buying a '93 Saturn to avoid getting the work done, but after the Saturn was stolen I just swallowed hard and brought the Subie in for work.

As PR mentioned, you might want to check about the head gaskets online. I was under the impression that the problem was solved by the time the 2004 models were released, but I'm not the best source of info on that, since it was never that relevant to me. What I found when my head gaskets were going was that when on the highway the temp would be normal, but as soon as I pulled off and the car was idling, the temperature shot through the roof. It has something to do with how they're failing -- I read it once, but I forget what the details are right now.

Good luck with whatever course of action you decide to pursue.

[Eric]

Well, at least I will probably choose a Toyota for my next vehicle rather than a Subaru.

Sounds like they have some problems.
It's true that they're not as trouble-free or fuel-efficient as you would expect given their following. It's weird though: once you own one, there's this weird dedication you get to them. If I knew my next car would be trouble-free, I would most definitely buy a Subaru. I'm not sure I understand why there is the cult following to them, but it's there and I can sense it even in myself.

[poodlesrule]

Update to a confusing situation... (find cause of failure, repair/rebuild, trade/junk?)

I went to the back of the shop, and looked at my car. Timing belt cover is off, belt is there, in good shape. No visible other problem.
A friend at another shop would like to see it to better judge, and thinks I could have a rebuilt engine in for 2500 +/-, and have that as a trade to new vehicle....

EDIT to add: I am getting mad at the fact that i don't know what took the engine down.. grrr. Like I need "closure" or something. Weird.

[marnold]

The 2004 Legacy has around 55,000 miles on it, but the Subaru shop has told me that the head gaskets are leaking and it is $1500 to fix them. When I asked them how come it is so expensive they told me that it is because it is very labor intensive to pull apart two engine heads and fix the problem. I have been putting the problem off now for about 3 months, I don't know that I should put it off any longer, but $1500 is a lot of money. From what I remember of the 1997 I think the old Legacy is more trouble-free than my current one.
My former car had the head gaskets go at around 110K miles. This was quite a few years ago. It cost me around $1,100 to get it fixed. It is very labor intensive because I saw all the stuff he had to take off to just get to the gaskets. The heads themselves may also have to be machined because they can be damaged by the failed gasket. The longer you wait, the worse it will get. Eventually you'll get coolant in your oil which will turn it into a lovely meringue. After that the engine itself will seize up. The good news is that after the fix, the car is still going at over 260K miles.

It's really easy to test if your head gaskets are failing. There is a device that you can put some coolant from your radiator in. It can detect if there are traces of exhaust in it. If there are, the gaskets are failing. In my case it was winter when the gaskets failed. Enough exhaust got into the cooling system that it was keeping the thermostat from tripping until the car was at the point of overheating. I also had no heat, which is bad news in Wisconsin in January.

[bcdon]

Isn't Sumi a Subaru mechanic? He hasn't posted in months. Sumi, where are you?

[progrmr]

It sounds like the mechanic is saying the engine connection to the transmission/drive shaft is busted - head gaskets would cause fluid leaking, loss of compressions and potentially piston head damage - in this case though the engine wouldn't be able to crank without resistance.

Sorry to say it but if this is the case you're best bet would be to junk the car and get something newer. If you have a little to invest you could have a more qualified mechanic check into it - but if they can't tell what's going on without pulling the engine I doubt it'd be worth it.

Sucks....need to sell any gear to cover the repair costs??

:running (running away :) )

[poodlesrule]

Isn't Sumi a Subaru mechanic? He hasn't posted in months. Sumi, where are you?

Yes, where is that child?

I looked at my car in the back parking lot. Timing belt cover is off so i was able to assess things: belt is there, no apparent damage to pulleys and such.

On a dedicated Subaru forum, it was pointed out to me that we should check if there is effective piston movement or not. I also read eleswhere that someone had a crankshaft break (very rare these days) without any major noise. Could mine had gone that way?

[Spudman]

That's the spirit. :dude




Sucks....need to sell any gear to cover the repair costs??

:running (running away :) )

[otaypanky]

reading through this thread I am getting the feeling that perhaps the mechanic is in a bit over his head. Is the car at a Subaru dealer or an independent repair shop? If there is a serious mechanical failure a competent tech should be able to determine what is wrong. In any event if the tech is giving you the feeling he doesn't want to get in to it, it's definitely at the wrong shop.

[deeaa]

I would go for a new engine IF I could find one well under $2K. You'll be looking at at least that much in the following few years in repairs I fear, unless it's been undergoing major repairs already.

For $4000 I'm sure you could find a better car.

I always buy my cars driven 130.000ml or so already, but I make sure they've been worked over well and have good engines.
For a modern, quality engine, 300.000 miles should not be hard to achieve if taken care of well. I dunno about eastern cars, though, never owned one, never will :-)

My car has over 200.000 miles on the clock and I've never done any repairs to the engine itself...but, since it's over 10 years old, and has practically no resale value, I've decided if and when the engine dies or it needs other repairs nearing 2K mark, I'll scrap it. But, hoping to drive it for at least 2-3 more years.

[deeaa]

BTW just to clarify the no eastern cars remark...I'm fully aware that Toyota and Honda etc. make top notch quality etc. and if I ever bought a _new_ car I might get something like a Nissan Pathfinder or whatever; if I'd need a car to cross the Sahara I'd get a Land Cruiser, etc...but, I buy my cars 5-6 years old and driven much, and the fact just seems to be I can't find any eastern car I'd like in that age/mileage group. They literally don't smell right to me, and just generally don't have an air and appeal to me at all.

One thing for instance I must have is quite blonde an interior, and clear, spacious lines, and by and large eastern cars are all black inside, and strangely cramped around the driver too. Furthermore, eastern makers tend to put out clearly different models within 5-6 years, so the cars that old look clearly dated already to me, whereas with many european makes it takes a professional to even be able to tell the difference in loks of cars 6 years apart in model years. It's just a matter of personal likes and dislikes, not meaning to say I think they suck or anything like that, quite the contrary.

[poodlesrule]

Three extra notes;

I *may* not have been very religious about checking my oil level, I since read that Japanese engines, generally, are built very tight, and are sensitive to oil levels. This may have been why my bottom end decided to go?
I am sure history of headgasket problems did not help here. I think I was losing a bit of coolant.

You can have your engine oil tested for contaminants like gasoline, coolant. I did not know there were 'consumer" labs offering that. Very useful to investigate coolant loss,loose valves, etc. Useful to buttress claim for warranty work.

CL people are funny: iI posted the car for sale "Subaru with dead engine" and "not running!" in body text. Someone replies "Anything wrong with it?". There is no way to tell if the responder means "anything else", or just didn't read the ad... or is on a physing(sp?) expedition!

[Eric]

CL people are funny: iI posted the car for sale "Subaru with dead engine" and "not running!" in body text. Someone replies "Anything wrong with it?". There is no way to tell if the responder means "anything else", or just didn't read the ad... or is on a physing(sp?) expedition!
Yup. I have posted various non-functional items on CL for free, and in one example, it was an xbox that didn't work. I mentioned this numerous times in the ad, and received multiple emails asking for it, saying that their kids would love to have an xbox to play, as they had been asking for one for a long time. Really? They're been asking for a video game system that doesn't work? Strange children...

[deeaa]

I always change my oil twice a year, no matter how little I drive, or every 10.000 km anyway. This despite the car manual only says oil needs be changed every 40.000. Also, whenever I start a trip longer than 200km, I check the oil and add a little if it's dropped any.

[Eric]

I always change my oil twice a year, no matter how little I drive, or every 10.000 km anyway. This despite the car manual only says oil needs be changed every 40.000. Also, whenever I start a trip longer than 200km, I check the oil and add a little if it's dropped any.
I've started doing this less than 10000 km / 3000 mi, since the manual does indeed give more room.

[Duffy]

Sounds like the end snapped on the crankshaft, therefore no piston movement up and down. Unlikely head gasket because even with a bad one some cylinders should retain a decent seal, especially on the other side of the engine if it is a oppositional boxer type 4 cyl. Those are great engines by the way. Did it clack or make knocking noise? A used junk yard motor could be an excellent idea. Since they made that motor for many years getting a used one should be cost effective, and with some luck you will have an engine that will be good for a long while, especially if low mileage wreck. Then you should be prepared to regularly perform repair and maintenance on any car. I did a lot of repairs on my great Subaru '96 Legacy wagon before I sadly totalled it at a new traffic light. It was totally ready for the long road.

[sumitomo]

I love hearing all these ideas of "What could it be?" sounds like you have made your mind what you want to do.But here are some things ever car has to have to run (and you should start here instead of guessing) compression (it's a big air pump)gotta have that timimg stuff with spark and fuel.Oh and on the subys,hondas,ect. When the headgasket is going or gone it allows combustion gasses into the cooling system,this pressure forces the coolant out and creates a air pocket which gets super heated forcing more coolant out and bang HOT! anyway if you guys ever have any car questions you can e-mail me and I will do what I can to help.I pop in here once in a while I need a new computer mine is really slow.Sumi:D

[NWBasser]

Sumi,

Glad to see you here!

What do you think of the long-term reliability/quality of the recent (2009 and up) Subi models?

I know they haven't been out long, but some potential issues might be identifiable at this point.

[bcdon]

Glad to see you back, Sumi. :dude

[sumitomo]

Man I gotta get a new computer,took 3 mins to boot this page.The newer cars (Asian)suby,honda,toy,ect are awesome say from 2005 up,I'm not seeing many probs at all,a lot of these cars now have timing chains(bummer for me)and they are holding good.Now of course a engine will go bad here or there,when there are moving parts,sometimes something will fail,but the probs of the past are not there and the performance and mileage are up!Sumi:D

[deeaa]

I'm seeing a weird trend here w/subarus.

Every year they publish a sorted list of yearly car inspection results, indicating by make and model which cars have had the least and most faults.

Strangely, in 6-7 year old cars bracket Subaru is doing magnificently and is actually the 3rd least faulty car.
But worryingly, in 4-5 year olds bracket it drops to ninth place (which is still very good), but then in new (3 years or so) cars it plummets to 69th place. Seems like not so good a trend...

BUT one always has to take these indicators with a grain of salt. I for one think they speak more of the owners - which brand owners take good care of their cars and which not, than actual car quality maybe.

[Duffy]

Dee, I don't think that it is probable to associate such a gigantic drop in the place number, for such a short period of time difference, to owner care and maintenance. That change would possibly be expected to be fairly constant or drop gradually or even fluxuate across the time line. I think this phenomenal drop is associated with other factors like quality control or quality of design.

[deeaa]

Hm, I don't know Subarus really at all. Might be they just introduced a new model at that point, which had some 'baby issues' like many 1st production run cars do before they're ironed out?

At any rate, those lists fluctuate like crazy. Pretty much the only constants are that Porsche, BMW and Lexus always occupy the highest ratings, and Toyota always keeps a lot of good positions on it. Japanese makes in general are pretty steadily at good positions. All the others seem to switch places quite a lot year by year.