deeaa
November 12th, 2011, 11:47 AM
Concerning this earlier post of mine about the SG EMG upgrade:
http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php/19458-Like-NGD-again!-SG-mods-done-amp-report
The guitar sounds great now with the 81TW, and surprisingly very similar to the Davette with an 85. This got me pondering again about what is it about the differences that make them sound a bit different and also suprisingly alike despite the 81/85 difference.
There are a few differences in the guitars themselves; they weigh roughly the same and both have similar, gibson-style neck/bridge angles, but Davette is bolt-on. Woods of course are different, mahogany vs. maple/ash. Davette has strat scale and SG of course the shorter Gibson one. On Davette the pickup is roughly 1" or farther from the bridge, while on the SG the pickup is very close to bridge, more like 1/3".
On neck pickup and cleans they sound astonishingly similar. I could not tell the two apart in a blind test. I was quite amazed about that actually, there really is zero difference in the sound.
But when you turn to bridge pup and dirty sounds, there are differences. The overall sound is the same, but the strat-scale Davette is clearly more...spunky. It's low end is kind of drier and clunkier, and I swear it still has some of the Strat type 'clang' to low string sound. Not as much as its maple-fretboard sibling, but still.
When I turn to the SG, both the feel and the sound of lower-string riffing is immediately more spongy and warmer; in fact I was instantly playing very Zakk Wylde type low-string bend and false harmonics stuff quite naturally.
Again I was amazed; the 81 is usually clearly colder-sounding than the 85, AND because the pup is right at the bridge, I had expected it to be quite obviously brighter than the Davette. But not! In fact it is almost the other way around, becasue the SG has that spongy thick Les-Paul kind of low end growl to it, while the strat is more spanky.
I must say, the differences aren't huge, but quite noticeable still, especially or maybe only in the low register feel and response.
Now this yields a couple of things to ponder:
- does the lack of tone control on SG make it a little more reactive and warmer on the low end? (I have no idea how much actually a tone pot changes the sound).
- is it ONLY the longer scale of the Davette that makes for the difference in spankiness, or do the woods add to it? I do have the Flying V with gibson scale AND maple/ash woods and it ain't spanky at all, so I'd dismiss the woods as very crucial in this.
- is the bridge pup location the most crucial factor, and if so, why does it seem it only gets warmer when nearer the bridge? This really leaves me puzzled. Or then the 81TW does sound different from a normal 81. In any case I did not expect it to sound SO similar to the 85 on this guitar.
I'm quite sold on the idea that the scale length is actually one of the most determining factors in electric sounds, but the mahogany/set neck structure of the SG could also add to it's warmer, rounder low end. But so much as to negate the effect of so differently placed and so different a pickup seems like a stretch.
So I'm left considering maybe removing a few more tone pots off my guitars (never use 'em anyway) and see if that could affect the sound so much...
http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php/19458-Like-NGD-again!-SG-mods-done-amp-report
The guitar sounds great now with the 81TW, and surprisingly very similar to the Davette with an 85. This got me pondering again about what is it about the differences that make them sound a bit different and also suprisingly alike despite the 81/85 difference.
There are a few differences in the guitars themselves; they weigh roughly the same and both have similar, gibson-style neck/bridge angles, but Davette is bolt-on. Woods of course are different, mahogany vs. maple/ash. Davette has strat scale and SG of course the shorter Gibson one. On Davette the pickup is roughly 1" or farther from the bridge, while on the SG the pickup is very close to bridge, more like 1/3".
On neck pickup and cleans they sound astonishingly similar. I could not tell the two apart in a blind test. I was quite amazed about that actually, there really is zero difference in the sound.
But when you turn to bridge pup and dirty sounds, there are differences. The overall sound is the same, but the strat-scale Davette is clearly more...spunky. It's low end is kind of drier and clunkier, and I swear it still has some of the Strat type 'clang' to low string sound. Not as much as its maple-fretboard sibling, but still.
When I turn to the SG, both the feel and the sound of lower-string riffing is immediately more spongy and warmer; in fact I was instantly playing very Zakk Wylde type low-string bend and false harmonics stuff quite naturally.
Again I was amazed; the 81 is usually clearly colder-sounding than the 85, AND because the pup is right at the bridge, I had expected it to be quite obviously brighter than the Davette. But not! In fact it is almost the other way around, becasue the SG has that spongy thick Les-Paul kind of low end growl to it, while the strat is more spanky.
I must say, the differences aren't huge, but quite noticeable still, especially or maybe only in the low register feel and response.
Now this yields a couple of things to ponder:
- does the lack of tone control on SG make it a little more reactive and warmer on the low end? (I have no idea how much actually a tone pot changes the sound).
- is it ONLY the longer scale of the Davette that makes for the difference in spankiness, or do the woods add to it? I do have the Flying V with gibson scale AND maple/ash woods and it ain't spanky at all, so I'd dismiss the woods as very crucial in this.
- is the bridge pup location the most crucial factor, and if so, why does it seem it only gets warmer when nearer the bridge? This really leaves me puzzled. Or then the 81TW does sound different from a normal 81. In any case I did not expect it to sound SO similar to the 85 on this guitar.
I'm quite sold on the idea that the scale length is actually one of the most determining factors in electric sounds, but the mahogany/set neck structure of the SG could also add to it's warmer, rounder low end. But so much as to negate the effect of so differently placed and so different a pickup seems like a stretch.
So I'm left considering maybe removing a few more tone pots off my guitars (never use 'em anyway) and see if that could affect the sound so much...