Which Pod to buy?

[Eric]

So first, some background: I have been playing in churches on the worship teams for the past 5+ years, and I estimate that I probably will continue to do so for a long time. For the uninitiated when it comes to that scene, it's big-time into clean stages: these days they want everyone going direct and everyone using headphone monitoring. Most people use in-ears, but I personally hate those in-ear canalphones, so I usually opt for over-the-ear headphones.

Anyway, the point is that a DI guitar solution is sort of par for the course these days. I have recently been using a Tech 21 Sansamp GT2 and various delays and dirt pedals. However, lately I've been having trouble getting good sounds out of the GT2, so I decided to try out a friend's Pod HD400 last night during a mid-week jam thing at the church.

The result? Wow, what a difference. It made me want to throw away my pedalboard and just get a Pod for everything. So while I may not be getting rid of my pedals immediately, I am seriously contemplating a Pod for live use at church. Now, the question is which one to get. That's where all of you come in.

I know the HD500 is easily the most flexible, but I am wondering about the wisdom of using a menu-heavy modeling unit for live use. For those familiar with the units, would an HD300 or HD400 be a better option? Bear in mind that this would be primarily for live DI use where I'd need a good amount of flexibility in terms of styles, but where I would not necessarily use tons and tons of effects. In other words, it's not really for recording, but more as an amp replacement for one specific application.

I'm leaning toward the HD400 as it has the full slate of effects and dedicated switches for presets, but I'd like to know what all of you think about it.

[Eric]

I actually remembered that the Zoom G3 seems to get good reviews too, so I'd also consider that. Given that it's only $200, it looks like a strong contender.

[Spudman]

I'd go for the HD500. It's a pro unit that you'll never outgrow. You'll save money in the long run by not becoming dissatisfied. What can be done with that unit will be viable for many years to come. It has wonderful recording options, midi control and a pretty easy to use interface. There are plenty of people using them live it seems with few complaints. The sound quality is what that unit is all about.

[Eric]

I'd go for the HD500. It's a pro unit that you'll never outgrow. You'll save money in the long run by not becoming dissatisfied. What can be done with that unit will be viable for many years to come. It has wonderful recording options, midi control and a pretty easy to use interface. There are plenty of people using them live it seems with few complaints. The sound quality is what that unit is all about.
I get what you mean. I've been doing some reading on the Zoom G3 and it looks like a nice unit, but if you're using an amp model that leaves only 2 spots for effects. It's probably better to have a little more room to stretch out than to butt up against the ceiling just a little too much. The whole trick with modeling (IMO) is that the technology is constantly progressing, so equipment will eventually be passed by new generations. So while preparing for the inevitable upgrade, you don't necessarily want to shackle yourself with a lack of flexibility or options.

Anyway, thanks for the input. It definitely got me thinking in a different vein.

[Robert]

One important distinction between the HD500 and the 3 and 400s is that the 500 has an effects loop. I love this, because I can then run my superior Lex Rotary anywhere in the chain. The Line 6 rotary speaker effect is not what rocks by boat, but Lex Rotary does.

[Tig]

I know the HD500 is easily the most flexible, but I am wondering about the wisdom of using a menu-heavy modeling unit for live use.

Regardless of which POD, you can dedicate a 10 patch bank with each effects/amp configuration you need and simply scroll up and down within that bank. No need to adjust anything if you previously configured each per your needs. The key to all of the POD's is to configure each patch via the computer edit interface, and perhaps fine tune from the unit as needed, with the option to save the change or not save. I like to set each effect to toggle on/off with a dedicated foot switch for flexibility.

Also, they just released a new firmware update that allows you to set the input impedance, depending on the output of various guitars, or set it to automatic impedance detection. This allows the POD to adjust to your different guitars, which I think is smart. The firmware update does other stuff, like a new "hard gate" noise gate. http://line6.com/news/general/1146

[Eric]

Regardless of which POD, you can dedicate a 10 patch bank with each effects/amp configuration you need and simply scroll up and down within that bank. No need to adjust anything if you previously configured each per your needs. The key to all of the POD's is to configure each patch via the computer edit interface, and perhaps fine tune from the unit as needed, with the option to save the change or not save. I like to set each effect to toggle on/off with a dedicated foot switch for flexibility.
I think I'd have to see that to really understand what you're talking about, but it sounds good. It would mainly be about tweaking the actual amp model EQ on the fly (i.e. in a band situation) and maybe the mix or delay time on an effect. If it's kind of clunky to edit that stuff on the fly, I think that's there something like a 300 or 400 might have merit.

I wish I knew someone who could loan me an HD500 so that I could give it a test run. It seems like that might be the easiest way to test all of this.

[Eric]

One important distinction between the HD500 and the 3 and 400s is that the 500 has an effects loop. I love this, because I can then run my superior Lex Rotary anywhere in the chain. The Line 6 rotary speaker effect is not what rocks by boat, but Lex Rotary does.
Point taken, though I'm 99% sure the HD400 also has an effects loop.

[Eric]

I think in the short-term, I'm going to see if my little Mustang I amp can be run into the house using the headphone out -- mostly a matter of getting the right cables and adapters for it. While thinking about this, I realized that the HD400 I used on Tuesday was the first modern-day full modeler I've used at a church. When you use those digital models, it's a bit different from using 'quasi-modelers' like the GT2 or Tech21 TM60, in that each of the digital models seems to behave very differently from each other.

[Robert]

Ahh, you are right. The HD400 does have a stereo effects loop.

http://line6.com/podhd/multi-effects/faq.html

[sunvalleylaw]

an iPod?

[Tig]

an iPod?

Nah, a Body Snatchers pod. They have 1/4" and XLR outputs.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QST_52fxTeI/ThQHeo_SG8I/AAAAAAAACNQ/Fks8vHgqwVU/s1600/bodysnatcherslist.jpg

[stingx]

If you aren't fixed on a Line 6 you could grab a Digitech RP500 (or even 1000). Great unit and you can get them on the cheap. I love mine and I'm a long time Line 6 junkie :) Just a thought.

[guitartango]

Eric

Why doesn't your setup sound good compared to a line 6 modeler ? Have you thought about buying a proper tube amp and adding a couple of effects (delay, chorus), Modeling amps sound OK if you want to be in a covers band, but if you want your own tone you are better off with buying the real thing.

[Eric]

If you aren't fixed on a Line 6 you could grab a Digitech RP500 (or even 1000). Great unit and you can get them on the cheap. I love mine and I'm a long time Line 6 junkie :) Just a thought.
Good point. I'll check those out too. I had a low-end one (RP100) a few years ago that I really didn't like for the drives/modeling, but that was both a low-end unit and before I really understood modeling at all.

[deeaa]

I think in the short-term, I'm going to see if my little Mustang I amp can be run into the house using the headphone out -- mostly a matter of getting the right cables and adapters for it. While thinking about this, I realized that the HD400 I used on Tuesday was the first modern-day full modeler I've used at a church. When you use those digital models, it's a bit different from using 'quasi-modelers' like the GT2 or Tech21 TM60, in that each of the digital models seems to behave very differently from each other.

The Mustang's phones output will work very well...in fact I don't think I'd even consider getting another modeler if you can use the Mustang like that. Much better to use the same familiar amp in various uses.

That last bit you said - each of the digital models seems to behave very differently from each other - that's a very good notion. That is, IMO, the biggest plus but also the biggest nuisance to any digital modelers.

These days the modelers, hell, even VST plugins handle the revered 'picking dynamics' very well, that isn't the problem...the problem is that the models themselves are rather rigid. You _can_ change the sound by playing and such, and whatnot, but nevertheles...you always need a different patch for each song almost.

With a real amp...even a single-channel one...the entire sound can be totally different so easily, by playing differently, just a slight turn of a knob. Just this weekend I played a session of a few hours thru an old Marshall and also a Behringer amp, and both worked really easily - just a basic sound, but such a sound that it fit any song I played quite easily.

With modelers, I think I can get even a better sound than 'real' at least on recordings, but still, it's always just for that song I'm working on. Almost always when I bring up the saved patch for another song, it just won't work no more. I always end up browsing thru the amp models for that particular need.

So in a way that is a blessing; in studio environment you can always get a perfect sound on that song, dial up an AC30 when need be etc..but in real life, very soon I always notice that I want to change the sound for each song. If I don't, it always seems it doesn't after all work so well, and soon I have saved a patch for each song instead of using just one.

Once you start tweaking each tone for each song, there may be no end to it...soon you have a full rack of gear.

Right now, I have a multiFX box in my JV loop, but it's there only for some noisegating basically...I'm a bit tempted to just plug in MIDI control, and then when I change the channel on the amp, I could also assign each channel with any FX I'd like, such as delay for lead etc...

BUT I don't want to, simply because I know that's the path to neverending tweakorama ad nauseam...I rather make do with no effects whatsoever, and use 'em only when recording.

[Eric]

The Mustang's phones output will work very well...in fact I don't think I'd even consider getting another modeler if you can use the Mustang like that. Much better to use the same familiar amp in various uses.
Yeah, that's my thinking too. I've grown to like the new Fender modeling stuff quite a bit. It's very good at that in-between grit when compared to a lot of the other modeling stuff I've tried in the past. It was certainly a good deal for the $60 I spent on it.


That last bit you said - each of the digital models seems to behave very differently from each other - that's a very good notion. That is, IMO, the biggest plus but also the biggest nuisance to any digital modelers.

These days the modelers, hell, even VST plugins handle the revered 'picking dynamics' very well, that isn't the problem...the problem is that the models themselves are rather rigid. You _can_ change the sound by playing and such, and whatnot, but nevertheles...you always need a different patch for each song almost.

...

With modelers, I think I can get even a better sound than 'real' at least on recordings, but still, it's always just for that song I'm working on. Almost always when I bring up the saved patch for another song, it just won't work no more. I always end up browsing thru the amp models for that particular need.
I suppose this could be true, though many of the models I've tried recently seem like they could be quite versatile. It's part of the reason I'm rather eager to try some of this stuff live and with a band -- to see whether I can just park it on one model and keep it there, as well as to see how it behaves in a mix.

I ordered a slew of adapters for headphone playing (my cans only have a 1/4" plug) and lining out to the mixer from the headphone out on the amp, so I'll see how this whole thing shakes out.