NFL 2012 [American Football Content]

[R_of_G]

Training camps are in full swing. First official pre-season game tomorrow with the Hall of Fame Game. May as well start the NFL discussion now. How'd your team do this offseason? What do you expect from your team this season?

As most of you will recall, I'm all in on the Bucs this season. The Jets thing has been retired by my entire family. We've all moved on to the teams of our adopted hometowns over the team from the place none of us has lived in a decade.

I think the Bucs had a strong free agency period (Carl Nicks, Vincent Jackson) and a very strong draft (Mark Barron, Doug Martin). I know the NFL isn't the NCAA, but if Greg Schiano can develop the young Bucs like he did the players at Rutgers, this team has good years ahead.

I am optimistic about the team, but I am also realistic. They were 4-12 last season. If they can go 8-8 this season, I will think it a tremendous success and a sign of better things to come. If they manage to do better than that, that'd be great too.

[Tig]

Our home team (Texans) suffered last year in the post season due to injuries.
Now in training camp, there are already several injuries.

http://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/images/smilies/anifacepalm.gif

[Jipes]

I'm happy to see that the Saints are well on track despite all the suspended players and coaches, I can't wait to see the new season but this opening game of Sunday was not a bad start :dance

[sunvalleylaw]

Nothing too much new for my team the Seattle Seahawks since we last talked. I think they made some decent looking trades and acquisitions, and I hope they are able to build upon the successes of last year. It was the best season in a long time, and I hope a signal that better days may come. We added some good guys. The QB is not settled yet, but we have a couple decent guys to pick from.

Also, one of my favorite players from the 90's was finally honored at the NFL Hall of Fame! http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/08/05/2242657/lovable-big-guy-kennedy-light.html

Way to go 'Tez!

[R_of_G]

Also, one of my favorite players from the 90's was finally honored at the NFL Hall of Fame! http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/08/05/2242657/lovable-big-guy-kennedy-light.html

A well deserved induction for Kennedy. He'd have been a household name if he'd played in a larger market or teams that contended, but man, that dude could play.

[R_of_G]

@SVL - The Seahawks signed Terrell Owens to a deal. Perhaps the Jets aren't the only team going with a circus motif for this season. Good luck with that freak show.

[sunvalleylaw]

Oh man! I had not heard that!! :thwap Just when things were looking better and that they were piecing together a workerlike team! *goes to look at TNT sports page to see news*

[R_of_G]

Oh man! I had not heard that!! :thwap Just when things were looking better and that they were piecing together a workerlike team! *goes to look at TNT sports page to see news*

It's just what a team with an identity crisis at QB needs, the ultimate QB killer in their locker room.

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah, sure enough. It's there in the news. They say Carroll is optimistic, that TO gave a good workout and is fit, and maybe they can get a good year out of him. I say we don't need the distraction potential. We need to figure out which of the candidates for QB will get the longer term job, and develop the team leadership. I don't see TO helping that out. Maybe I am wrong and unfairly judging him, but . . .

[Tig]

Oh man! I had not heard that!! :thwap Just when things were looking better and that they were piecing together a workerlike team! *goes to look at TNT sports page to see news*
Looks like R_of_G needs to work on his bedside manner... SVL almost had a cardiac moment! :what

[NWBasser]

@SVL - The Seahawks signed Terrell Owens to a deal. Perhaps the Jets aren't the only team going with a circus motif for this season. Good luck with that freak show.

CRAP!!!!:thwap

What sort of stupidity is going on in Renton?

Did someone switch Pete Carroll's brain with Rex Ryan's?

Last I saw of TO, he was let go from an arena team....

[NWBasser]

Looks like R_of_G needs to work on his bedside manner... SVL almost had a cardiac moment! :what

Me too.

It appears that my beloved Seahawks are becoming a circus act.:crazyguy

[sunvalleylaw]

I just had a weird thought. What if Pete Carroll is trying to do something along the lines of the "Moneyball" thing in the baseball movie? Maybe it could work in football. It will be interesting this year anyways!

I don't take football THAT seriously any more. I enjoy following the Seahawks some again, but I sure don't want to go back to taking any professional sport seriously. I goofed up too many Sundays like that in my youth. :D

[NWBasser]

What's really worring about the T.O. acquisition is what it says about the rest of the recieving corp. If the 'hawks are desparate enough to gamble on T.O., then they must not have much confidence in their other recievers.

Bringing a new QB into a system without receiving talent seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't like the idea of a team built on desparation.

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, not much clarity in the QB situation in Seattle from what I read. I did not watch the game. From what I read, I want to hold out for Flynn to come into his own rather than be too attracted by Wilson's "more exciting" performance. Defense apparently played well. I like that.

[R_of_G]

Well, not much clarity in the QB situation in Seattle from what I read. I did not watch the game. From what I read, I want to hold out for Flynn to come into his own rather than be too attracted by Wilson's "more exciting" performance. Defense apparently played well. I like that.

I'm sure the organization would like to see Flynn come into his own too, since they paid him handsomely assuming he'd have a "his own" to come into. Frankly, I think Wilson is the better QB. I thought he was better in college. I think he'll make a better pro. Flynn looked great plugged into the Green Bay starting offense when Rodgers was out. Running the Seattle offense is far different. One exhibition game hardly makes for enough data on which to make the choice, but through one game, on the field Wilson was the better QB.

[NWBasser]

Well, not much clarity in the QB situation in Seattle from what I read. I did not watch the game. From what I read, I want to hold out for Flynn to come into his own rather than be too attracted by Wilson's "more exciting" performance. Defense apparently played well. I like that.

Steve, I only caught the last half of the fourth, but Wilson looked very good from what I saw.

I think I'll hold off on any sort of QB assessment until I've seen all the candidates at work. That said, it appears that they found some decent talent to try out.

Braylon Edwards looked pretty good and that may be a bright spot for the team.

[NWBasser]

...but through one game, on the field Wilson was the better QB.

Keep in mind that Wilson was also working against the second-string defense.

Nevertheless, Wilson did show that he's a very solid contender for the position.

Oh, and thank for the asssessment of him! I was unaware of his college achievements.

However this shakes out, it will be very interesting to see.

[R_of_G]

Braylon Edwards looked pretty good and that may be a bright spot for the team.

Edwards is a fairly consistent receiver at this point in his career. At some point or another, he will drop a big pass because he's Braylon Edwards and that's his thing he does, but the drops have gotten less frequent. I think Seatlle will be happy to have him. I still think he's better than any of the WRs the Jets have on their current roster but they didn't seem to think so.


Keep in mind that Wilson was also working against the second-string defense.

Nevertheless, Wilson did show that he's a very solid contender for the position.

Oh, and thank for the asssessment of him! I was unaware of his college achievements.

However this shakes out, it will be very interesting to see.

Wilson's collegiate play gets overlooked a lot because most of it was at NC State, not exactly known as a football powerhouse, but when he played that final year at Wisconsin a lot of people wondered why they hadn't heard of him before. He gets tagged with that "too short" for the NFL thing a lot, but (A) he's the same height as Brees who seems to have it figured out, and (B) he played fine at Wisconsin behind some of the most enormous linemen in the nation. I'd love to see what he can do with the first string guys.

[NWBasser]

Wilson's collegiate play gets overlooked a lot because most of it was at NC State, not exactly known as a football powerhouse, but when he played that final year at Wisconsin a lot of people wondered why they hadn't heard of him before. He gets tagged with that "too short" for the NFL thing a lot, but (A) he's the same height as Brees who seems to have it figured out, and (B) he played fine at Wisconsin behind some of the most enormous linemen in the nation. I'd love to see what he can do with the first string guys.:cool:

Hmm, based on your assessment of Wilson, maybe Carroll and Co. have a better eye for talent than I give them credit for. It seems that they have built a pretty good defense for this year.

Then again, T.O.!??

[R_of_G]

Hmm, based on your assessment of Wilson, maybe Carroll and Co. have a better eye for talent than I give them credit for. It seems that they have built a pretty good defense for this year.

Nah, I've seen enough Pete Carroll. This is more likely the every squirrel gets a nut thing.


Then again, T.O.!??

Exactly. Like I said the other day, why take a team already struggling to find its identity at QB and add to the mix the one player unanimously believed by everyone who's ever played with him to be a destroyer of the confidence of QBs? Just wait until the first time Flynn or Wilson don't throw it to Owens when he thinks he's open.

[Tig]

Maybe he'll hire Chad Ochocinco/Johnson/whatever-his-name-is-this-week?
:dance

[R_of_G]

Maybe he'll hire Chad Ochocinco/Johnson/whatever-his-name-is-this-week?
:dance

Though nothing ever surprises me with the NFL anymore, I'd wager Chad Johnson's NFL career is over. He had less than 20 receptions last season with Tom Brady as his QB. If you can't make that work, chances are it's not working with a lesser QB either. Then again, Mike Tannebaum is running a three ring circus in New York right now. Perhaps he needs another clown.

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, what did some of the other fretters observe about their teams? How are the Iggles looking so far, etc.?!

[R_of_G]

I thought the Bucs looked promising, albeit against an awful Dolphins' team. LeGarrette Blount is carrying the ball higher and tighter, hopefully leading to less fumbling.

Doug Martin appears to be the quintessential all-purpose back. He can run inside or outside. He can catch out of the backfield. Perhaps most importantly, he can block, as evidenced by a great block on one of Miami's best pass rushers, Cameron Wake, which allowed Josh Freeman the time to connect for a 14 yard pass and an extension of a drive that led to 7 points.

Most impressive to me was the offensive line. I knew Carl Nicks was a dominating presence on the line, but I didn't watch every Saints' game. This guy is quite possibly the best offensive lineman in the game right now. He is just killing people at the line and opening up holes I'm pretty sure even I could run through for a short gain.

The real key to this team's performance is on the other side of the ball. Injuries have plagued a potential-filled young defensive line and there's little depth if it happens again.

[NWBasser]

It's become clear to me that the Seahawks have a great QB option with Russell Wilson.

In last Sat's game against the Broncos, Wilson really shined. I think he's their guy.

Now, I'll bet that Carroll goes with Flynn...

Things were overall pretty good for the defense, although the pass rush was still lacking somewhat.

T.O. couldn't catch a cold that night and dropped a perfectly thrown pass by Flynn right in the end zone.

[Tig]

I watched most of the Colt's game Sunday night. Andrew Luck showed some pretty good patience and maturity for a rookie. The Steelers were a bit off and on, but looked good for the most part.
I'm also happy to report that the Texans appear to have their act together this year, barring too many injuries.

[piebaldpython]

Iggles looked OK against the Pats......esp Foles who came in when Vick got hurt. I was on 3 week vacation and missed most of training camp and the related scuttlebutt that comes out then. The players are dedicating the season to Andy Reid's son who recently died.

[R_of_G]

It's become clear to me that the Seahawks have a great QB option with Russell Wilson.

In last Sat's game against the Broncos, Wilson really shined. I think he's their guy.

Now, I'll bet that Carroll goes with Flynn...

Things were overall pretty good for the defense, although the pass rush was still lacking somewhat.

T.O. couldn't catch a cold that night and dropped a perfectly thrown pass by Flynn right in the end zone.

I suppose we'll see who has the real power in the Seahawks' organization. Typically in these situations, upper management tends to want to play the guy they just paid the big money for, while the coaches usually want the guy who's most ready to play, which is pretty clearly Wilson.

[NWBasser]

I suppose we'll see who has the real power in the Seahawks' organization. Typically in these situations, upper management tends to want to play the guy they just paid the big money for, while the coaches usually want the guy who's most ready to play, which is pretty clearly Wilson.

Carroll is starting Wilson on Friday. It looks to me like that's the direction he's headed.

The local sports pundit has clearly stated his preference for Flynn, explaining that a rookie QB will make a lot of mistakes and cost the team dearly.

Nevermind the incredible talent displayed by Wilson in his first couple of games...

With the exception of TO, there's quite a bit to look forward to with this team this season.

[R_of_G]

Carroll is starting Wilson on Friday. It looks to me like that's the direction he's headed.

The local sports pundit has clearly stated his preference for Flynn, explaining that a rookie QB will make a lot of mistakes and cost the team dearly.

Nevermind the incredible talent displayed by Wilson in his first couple of games...

With the exception of TO, there's quite a bit to look forward to with this team this season.

I'm not sure I buy the "rookie mistake" argument that guy is pushing. It's not as if Flynn has a wealth of in-game experience to draw from in avoiding mistakes Wilson might make. It's a matter of how well a player takes to coaching and I'd contend that his ability to transfer colleges and remain one of the top QBs in the country in a new system show that Wilson takes rather well to coaching. He'll make mistakes, they all do. The question is whether or not he repeats them.

[NWBasser]

I'm not sure I buy the "rookie mistake" argument that guy is pushing. It's not as if Flynn has a wealth of in-game experience to draw from in avoiding mistakes Wilson might make. It's a matter of how well a player takes to coaching and I'd contend that his ability to transfer colleges and remain one of the top QBs in the country in a new system show that Wilson takes rather well to coaching. He'll make mistakes, they all do. The question is whether or not he repeats them.

Guess who I have sports crush on?:socool

[R_of_G]

Guess who I have sports crush on?:socool

Me? :poke

[NWBasser]

Me? :poke

:rollover

I nearly cried laughing!

[marnold]

My heart almost stopped when I heard Stafford was knocked out of the game. Thankfully there's no major damage. Leshoure needs to learn that "excuse me" blocks won't cut it in the NFL.

[Tig]

I heard that Tebow and Sanchez couldn't get into their garages last night after the game...
Someone drew a goal line across their driveways!
:rollover

Sorry, I had to recycle that joke, but couldn't help myself!
As always, pre-season means nothing. Smart coaches don't play their best cards.

[piebaldpython]

Yeah, I know the rap about pre-season meaning nothin'.......but to see Sanchez and Tebow stink up the joint.....and Rex Ryan try to laugh it off.....is delicious.

Apologies and condolences to R-of-G if this rope-a-dope act becomes FACT.

[R_of_G]

As always, pre-season means nothing. Smart coaches don't play their best cards.

The obvious flaw one could make there would be an a priori assumption that Rex Ryan and Tony Sparano are smart coaches. The evidence quite clearly shows otherwise. The Jets cant' score TDs because they already had one of the worst offenses in the NFL and rather than upgrade at need positions, they either made lateral moves or downgraded. It should thus come as no surprise that they are now even worse.


Yeah, I know the rap about pre-season meaning nothin'.......but to see Sanchez and Tebow stink up the joint.....and Rex Ryan try to laugh it off.....is delicious.

Apologies and condolences to R-of-G if this rope-a-dope act becomes FACT.

No need to apologize to me my friend, I'll be laughing right along with you. The inability of that team and its management to take anything seriously has driven my entire family away from rooting for them anymore. This past Saturday marked 20 years that I've lived in Tampa. I need no longer worry about a second team from a place I lived nearly half my life ago. I am all in on the Bucs. The Jets are now just "one of the other 31 teams" to me (and a really crappy one at that from the look of it).

[NWBasser]

Well, things are really looking up for the 'Hawks these days.

Wilson is in for the starting QB position. Owens is out.

We have a lot of good pieces in position for a winning season.

Last Friday against the Chiefs, Wilson hammered them and impressed me to no end.

Credit where credit is due, Carroll's system of competition put the best guy in at QB against the highly paid Flynn.

I know pre-season doesn't really "count", but it does give you a look at the capabilities of the new players which is very interesting in its own right.

I enjoyed Collinsworth's analysis of Tebow's passing last night. I thought he broke things down very well and explained things that R of G has been saying all along. I'd also agree completely with R of G that Tebow would make a great running back.

[R_of_G]

Not a bad day for the Seahawks. When you can unload Terrell Owens and Tarvaris Jackson in the same day, it's a positive step for the franchise.

I'm glad Carroll decided to play Wilson. It'll be great for the team and for the league if it works out.

No offense to Matt Flynn, who may still have a solid career ahead of him as well, but hopefully Wilson beating him out in camp will see a decline in the trend of signing some successful team's backup to big dollars without really knowing if they can lead a franchise (see also Cassel, Matt and Kolb, Kevin).

[sunvalleylaw]

Yes! Those offloads are great news! I have no problem with a competition going on for QB. I am glad Wilson is getting his shot if he has been the one playing better. I am glad some distractions have been sent away so the team can focus on finding the right offensive leader.

[R_of_G]

I'm pleased with the Bucs' performance against the Patriots. The single bad note, and it's a big one, is that OG Davin Joseph suffered a knee injury which will cost him this season. Prior to bringing in Carl Nicks, Joseph was the best offensive lineman on the team and his loss will be tremendous.

[NWBasser]

Yes! Those offloads are great news! I have no problem with a competition going on for QB. I am glad Wilson is getting his shot if he has been the one playing better. I am glad some distractions have been sent away so the team can focus on finding the right offensive leader.

Steve, did you see the game on Friday?

I think we have a lot to look forward to this year!

[sunvalleylaw]

No, didn't get too. Headed out with my daughter to secure a campsite up at Redfish lake for the weekend, with the boys and my wife joining on Saturday after soccer stuff. So did not get to catch the game. Was a beautiful night under the stars up at Redfish though!

[Tig]

I sure can't blame you. That sounds like heaven!

[NWBasser]

No, didn't get too. Headed out with my daughter to secure a campsite up at Redfish lake for the weekend, with the boys and my wife joining on Saturday after soccer stuff. So did not get to catch the game. Was a beautiful night under the stars up at Redfish though!

Oh, but to live in Paradise!

[sunvalleylaw]

Argghhh!!! the only thing worse than the Seahawks dropping a game like that is having to experience it by internet written play by play on Fox. The channel isn't even available from Cox in our area. I may have to at least buy the audio package. But still, a sucky loss. No need for it. On the replays I watched I saw one very catchable touchdown pass dropped, and the play by play I was watching made it sound like there were more in that late game goal line stand. At least wilson looks like he played well enough for them to win, and I bet he will continue to get better.

Still, grrrr.

[piebaldpython]

Iggles barely won with Vick throwing 5 interceptions. Amazing.

Peyton Manning looked scary good tonite. What's with the Jets remembering how to play football? lol

[mrmudcat]

The dang nurses had me all day so I MISSED ALL GAMES.tHEY TRIED TELLING ME i WOULD HAVE TO SHUT DOWN THE RACE LAST NIGHT BECAUSE IT WAS ON UNTIL MIDNIGHTSTARTED AT 6PM.I TOLD THEM ID SIGN OUT IF THEY DIDNT LET ME WATCH................TRUST ME WHEN THEY SAW A PIECE OF MY WHITE ARSE PACKING MY THINGS TO GO HOME .LETS JUST SAY I GOT MY WAY AS USUAL.:bootyshake


TIME FOR BED THE MEDS ARE MAKING ME TYPE BAD:thwap

[Katastrophe]

Give 'em hell, Muddy!

Haven't had a chance to get into football the last couple seasons, due to work schedule... Hopefully, that will change and life will slow down to the point where I can get back into watching sports again.

[Glacies]

So I'm not sure if Cam Newton impressed me yesterday or not. I didn't see any of his signature plays, the O-line kept collapsing, he got sacked a handful of times and he threw I think 3 interceptions.

[R_of_G]

So I'm not sure if Cam Newton impressed me yesterday or not. I didn't see any of his signature plays, the O-line kept collapsing, he got sacked a handful of times and he threw I think 3 interceptions.

Cam got to know Bucs' DT Gerald McCoy pretty well yesterday. It's a shame yesterday's game was blacked out here, requiring fans that really want to see the Bucs to take to the internet to find streams of the game. Yesterday's game should forever silence the casual fans here that insist Gerald McCoy is a bust because he didn't become Warren Sapp overnight (despite having very similar stats to Sapp's first two years here). What I saw yesterday was that it takes at least two offensive players on every single down to block McCoy, and even so, he was disrupting Newton left and right yesterday, chasing him around the backfield, forcing him to make bad throws, etc. The problem here is that too many fans don't know what solid DT play looks like. They assume they can just check the number in the "sacks" column when there is so much more to it than that.

A couple of other notes on the Bucs' performance... I couldn't be happier they traded down in the draft to take Mark Barron instead of moving up to take Morris Claiborne (or worse, Trent Richardson). Barron showed a lot of very intelligent play yesterday. The real highlight for me defensively was watching rookie LB Lavonte David. It's about time the Bucs had a LB that seemed drawn magnetically to wherever the ball was. They've lacked that since Derrick Brooks. David was involved in play after play, run coverage, pass coverage, the guy was everywhere.

Josh Freeman looked much more poised than last season. If the right throw wasn't there, he didn't try to force it. Schiano really seems to have had an impact on him, and I couldn't be happier.

Fifteen games to go, and we've already won 1/4 as many games as last season!

Go Bucs!

[Commodore 64]

Not an auspicious beginning for the Browns.

[R_of_G]

Not an auspicious beginning for the Browns.

I'm sure they'll get another new rookie QB next season. But hey, at least they traded up for an overrated RB. :poke

[Commodore 64]

LOL. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see what the new owners thinks about all of this. Which, should come sometime in October when he is officially approved as new owner by the other owners.

[R_of_G]

LOL. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see what the new owners thinks about all of this. Which, should come sometime in October when he is officially approved as new owner by the other owners.

Looks to me like one strong possibility is that the new owner will wipe the entire slate clean, Holmgren and all and bring in his own player personnel guys. If that's the case, it's going to be yet another reboot for the Browns, and this one will set them back many many years. Still, I cannot thank Holmgren enough for taking Richardson off the board early so the Bucs wouldn't make that mistake.

[marnold]

The Lions won. That's all I'll say. Thankfully they don't hand out style points.They'll have to play a lot better on Sunday night, that's for sure. Here's to hoping the Niners get overconfident.

So much for the prediction of the Packers going 16-0.

[Tig]

After a shaky first half, the Texans looked good, especially J.J. Watt's pass swatting.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/wp-content/blogs.dir/2348/files/2012-texans-home-opener/tex-gal-sm-02.jpg

The Schaub / Andre Johnson train also got rolling.
They ran for only 83 yards, which needs improvement considering the talents of Arian Foster.

[NWBasser]

A penalty-filled game for the Seahawks which ended ugly.

I can't really fault Wilson too much except that he had a couple passes batted down due to his lack of height.

The receivers couldn't seem to shake loose for anything. That and dropped balls really showed some serious shortcomings.

Lynch couldn't really get started. I think he had about 85 yards. I have to admit that the Card's defense was very tight. Much better than I expected.

It will be interesting to see if the 'hawks can all come together and make plays.

The really bright spot was, as usual, Washington's kick/punt returns for big plays.

The defense looked very good at times, but couldn't contend with Kolb.

[R_of_G]

One weekend in and I'm utterly appalled by the performance of the replacement officials, which is sadly, not at all surprising. It seems like it's in vogue to just laugh it off and say "ha ha, it couldn't get worse than the regular officials" but quite clearly, it can. Roger Goodell is trying as hard as he can to vie with the NHL's Gary Bettman as the worst pro sports commissioner in my lifetime.

[NWBasser]

On the upside; the officials gave Seattle an extra time out.

But the look of total confusion on their faces while they tried to sort it out didn't lend much confidence in their abilities.

In that game, it seemed that they called every penalty that they possibly could and it made for something of a miserable game to watch.

[R_of_G]

It got to the point where I was waiting for one of the officials to call a penalty from some other sport.

"Defense, number ninety-four. Two minutes for hooking!"

[marnold]

It got to the point where I was waiting for one of the officials to call a penalty from some other sport.

"Defense, number ninety-four. Two minutes for hooking!"

I'm just hoping for another "Giving him the business like this" call.

[Tig]

The most informed replacement official I've seen was the woman from a few weeks ago (can't remember which game). The other ref's kept going to her for the technical details and rules.

We've seen them try too hard, calling infractions where none existed, then completely miss something just feet in front of them.
"Yo, Ref... One more eye and you'd be a cyclops!"

[R_of_G]

I'm just hoping for another "Giving him the business like this" call.

Ha! Awesome.

That was the Jets' Marty Lyons (if I'm not mistaken) against Buffalo's Jim Kelly. That was the single greatest vocalized penalty call in NFL history.

[marnold]

iNoy1yKmcRw

[piebaldpython]

Well the jury is in and.......most pundits roundly criticized Andy Reid for his pathethic play-calling against the Browns last weekend. McCoy was running up a storm and then magically disappeared for the 2nd half. Really? Seriously? Honestly, it's a miracle that we win games with that idiot at the controls. Good grief.

Of course, you guys hear this same plaint from me EVERY year for probably the past 4-5 years and yet......it never changes. We are never going to be rid of him........and oh yeah, no friggin' discipline either. We racked up another boat-load of penalty yards. AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

[R_of_G]

I'll tell you this PBP, while I'm no Eagles' fan, the day they finally fire Andy Reid I will be very happy for you. You know, if we're still alive when that actually happens.

[piebaldpython]

No lol intended here.....but......uh.....with his family tragedy this summer, that's a guarantee for this season and probably next..........you know.......brain-dead stupidity exacerbated by grief.

[Tig]

Watching the Eagles is becoming more difficult each season, as Reid blunders calls and wastes the talent at hand.

Also, every time we watch the 49'ers, Mrs. Tig goes outside and pounds her skull against the sidewalk after watching David Akers (the one who got away) nail awesome field goals.

[piebaldpython]

I'm glad for Akers because he was a good guy and good for the community........sad for us whilst he kicks for the Niners. Isn't it time for Reid to go on one of those Mormon missionary treks to God-only-knows-where?

[R_of_G]

Ugh. It was a great and then heartbreaking day to be a Bucs' fan. They gave the Giants all they could handle and more for the first half of that game.

The defense, though a bit shaky up the middle against the run, was looking good against the pass, forcing Eli to make several mistakes leading directly to three scores for the Bucs.

Then for some reason they changed defensive strategies in the second half and let the Giants right back into it. It didn't help that Aquib Talib had the worst game of his pro career getting torched by Victor Cruz time and time again, and then getting burned by Nicks on the big pass that set up the winning score. Not to mention, had the regular officials been working Talib would have been flagged for about half a dozen defensive holding/pass interference calls the scab officials missed. In a word, his game today was terrible.

On the bright side, Josh Freeman is making major strides forward and the two defensive rookies, Barron and David, continue to impress me with consistent fundamentally sound play.

The core of a good young defense is beginning to emerge. It needs serious help on the corners. Wright is good but not great (though his pick-6 runback today is likely the best play we'll see all day). Talib is inconsistent at best, and, well, today at worst.

So 1-1 after two weeks. Should have been 2-0 if they could have kept their foot on the gas, but the other way to look at it is that this team that was 4-12 last year were in the game with the Super Bowl champ Giants for the full four quarters. It's progress. I'll take it.

How'd your team do?

[Tig]

Way to go, Seahawks! Any win over Dallas is a good win. :AOK

The Texans gave it to the Jaguars, but I was at the Astros game with my family so I didn't see it. (Astros rally to win the 3rd of a 4 game series over the Phillies)

Looks like the Steelers will take the Jets...

[piebaldpython]

Iggles with 2 wins....each by 1 point. Oh boy.......the heart-attack Iggles are playing with our hearts. And if they keep winning, we'll never get rid of Reid. lol I'll take the wins and put up with the big oaf.

Somebody please explain to me why the NFL can't loosen up the purse strings a little and get the REAL refs signed. This is just stupid and the NFL Owners and Goodell are being idiots. Honestly, grow the frig up and act like MEN. Give the refs what they are due and be done with this nonsense.

[sunvalleylaw]

Way to go Seahawks! Convincing win in the home opener! Lynch got going, and Wilson settled down and did well. Tate pulled a few passes in. Seems to me front line and pass protection, breaking holes open, and having receivers that hold on to the ball will be the longer run keys.

[sunvalleylaw]

Somebody please explain to me why the NFL can't loosen up the purse strings a little and get the REAL refs signed. This is just stupid and the NFL Owners and Goodell are being idiots. Honestly, grow the frig up and act like MEN. Give the refs what they are due and be done with this nonsense.

Can you say "pissing contest"? Why is it that any negotiation in pro sports seems to be handled this way? Another thing about pro sports that teaches such "good" lessons. :cool:

[piebaldpython]

Wouldn't be surprised if Goodell is ticked because a judge ruled that his suspensions of the Saints for Bounty-gate wasn't right. ahaha

[R_of_G]

The longer this goes on, the more the people that thought the "how much worse than the regular refs can they be?" jokes were clever will see just how much of a difference there really is.

I will not complain about the officiating costing the Bucs anything, because I've always argued that if you execute on every down, no single call should mean that much one way or the other, but there were some rather interesting interpretations of the rules at play yesterday.

[NWBasser]

Yippee.

The 'Hawks put a beating on the Cowboys yesterday. I missed the game while hiking with my son, but listened on the radio on the way home and it all sounded very good.

Nice to get Lynch up and going again.

[Tig]

:rockya :dude http://www.thefret.net/images/smilies/rockya.gif http://www.thefret.net/images/smilies/Dude.gif http://www.thefret.net/images/smilies/rockya.gif http://www.thefret.net/images/smilies/Dude.gif http://www.thefret.net/images/smilies/rockya.gif http://www.thefret.net/images/smilies/Dude.gif
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-on/2012/08/20/refx-large.jpg

[R_of_G]

So apparently the Bucs are the villains of the NFL now. I guess after the Saints they had to keep it in the NFC South?

There seems to be much controversy over the Bucs' defensive players playing out the last down of the game despite knowing the Giants would take a knee and run out the clock.

I've heard a lot about the "unwritten" rule that you don't do that, and I've heard a lot of people question Coach Schiano's class. I couldn't disagree more strongly.

The game is 60 minutes long, period.

The rule book does not prohibit a defensive team from playing with 100% effort on 100% of the plays. The NFL made it clear yesterday there was no rules violation in what the Bucs did.

Whether or not it was likely, it was entirely possible that Eli and his center would mishandle the snap and by recovering the fumble the Bucs could conceivably have forced OT. Instead they should what, give up because two seconds is the same as zero seconds?

I don't buy into any "unwritten" rule that says a team has to concede victory to their opponent until the clock reads 0:00. It's the same nonsense that says you don't bunt when a pitcher has a no-hitter going as if its the opposing teams obligation to maintain the guy' no-hitter.

It would seem from the montage of ESPN "experts" that my opinion is certainly in the minority, but I would also add that the one ESPN analyst who seems to agree with me is Ron Jaworski, and given that I respect his analysis significantly more than Cris Carter, Keyshawn Johnson and Antonio Pierce combined, I'll take it. The rest of them are suggesting quitting is ok. It's not.

[piebaldpython]

R_of_G..........I see your point and it is well-made with a good amount of validity to it.

That said.....In the interview that I saw......Schiano made NO mention of "hoping to miraculously dislodge the ball and recover" in his explanantion. He just said that the other coaches should know from his Rutgers days that he's no-holds barred in how his teams play. That's a crappy explanation in my book.

And the "unwritten" rules re the end of the football game and not bunting in the midst of a no-hitter are just not analagous.

But, he had every "right" to fire away on the last play of the game....no argument there...and the opposition should always "defend themselves at all times" (like in boxing). What Schiano did though......was a breach of ettiquette.....a "gentleman's agreement" between coaches as a way of avoiding any needless-senseless-idiotic injuries to players. The other teams have now been warned.

The Iggles have profitted from other teams (Giants most notably) of screwing up the last play of a game.

So, all the other teams will "kneel down" at the end of the game except when they play the Bucs.....notice has been served.

[R_of_G]

That said.....In the interview that I saw......Schiano made NO mention of "hoping to miraculously dislodge the ball and recover" in his explanantion. He just said that the other coaches should know from his Rutgers days that he's no-holds barred in how his teams play. That's a crappy explanation in my book.

Part of the problem is that they're airing a quick byte of Schiano's comments, so perhaps you didn't catch him saying the following:

"We crowd the ball -- it's like a sneak defense and you try to knock it loose. Watch Rutgers, they would know if they watched us that's what we did at the end of the game." - Greg Schiano [Source: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8388392/new-york-giants-tom-coughlin-argues-tampa-bay-buccaneers-greg-schiano-cheap-shot-eli-manning]

In those two sentences it's pretty clear he thought it possible for his defense to get the ball, and that he was referencing the four times his Rutgers' defenses successfully executed such a play under his reign as coach there.


But, he had every "right" to fire away on the last play of the game....no argument there...and the opposition should always "defend themselves at all times" (like in boxing). What Schiano did though......was a breach of ettiquette.....a "gentleman's agreement" between coaches as a way of avoiding any needless-senseless-idiotic injuries to players. The other teams have now been warned.

See, but that's the issue I have. If the Giants were up by more than a single score, yes, I'd be opposed to what the Bucs did because the clock prohibits them from completing a single play that would result in enough points to force overtime.

However, as long as a team still has a probability higher than 0.0% of winning a game, I have more of an issue with them being told to just give up than I do with them playing one more down at full speed. If Manning had been hurt, the only thing needless,senseless, or idiotic about such an injury is that his teammates decided to play one less play than the opponents.

[sunvalleylaw]

I have no problem with a "no retreat, no surrender" approach to football. It is after all, a combative sport. I like to see a clean, hard hitting game. All the way through.

[R_of_G]

Maybe I'm overcompensating because my former favorite team stopped playing hard 2 seconds into most games instead of with 2 seconds remaining?

[piebaldpython]

OK.......I agree with you......that no matter how remote the chance, if you're within a TD, you have every right to try to force a fumble and maybe a penalty that allows for one more play. I guess it was the shock of seeing "something other than what is the norm" that threw me a bit.

[R_of_G]

OK.......I agree with you......that no matter how remote the chance, if you're within a TD, you have every right to try to force a fumble and maybe a penalty that allows for one more play. I guess it was the shock of seeing "something other than what is the norm" that threw me a bit.

The score differential is the key to my take on that play. If the Bucs trailed by more than 8, I'd likely still have appreciated the "play hard every play" mentality, but would also get the anger from the Giants because the game would have already been decided at that point.

[marnold]

I think that people largely overreacted to the play, but it was still bush league. If they were so interested in playing 60 minutes, they shouldn't have stopped playing defense in the last quarter.

[R_of_G]

I think that people largely overreacted to the play, but it was still bush league. If they were so interested in playing 60 minutes, they shouldn't have stopped playing defense in the last quarter.

The difference of course being that the fourth quarter play, as poor as it was, wasn't the result of a lack of effort. Aquib Talib was certainly trying to cover Cruz and Nicks. He's just not good enough, and it showed. They didn't lose because they stopped trying.

[NWBasser]

Up next: The Seahawks versus Green Bay.

This will be very interesting to see. The Seahawks are built on a pound it and grind it offense versus the fast passing game of the Packers.

I don't see the 'Hawks hanging on in a passing shootout, especially with the mediocre receiving corp that they have. This will put a lot of pressure on the defense to shut down the Packers' passing attack.

It will be a contrast of the old grind-it-out paradigm versus the newer move-it-fast style of play.

What do you guys think will happen?

[R_of_G]

^^ Haven't seen enough of Seahawks 2012 to know how they'll stack up for four quarters with the Packers, but after that game we should have a clearer picture of how that team does against one of the more talented teams in their conference. Win or lose, I'll be paying attention to how much they're in the game.

[sunvalleylaw]

^^ Chuck Nnox football. Wait, that was the 80's.




I still think it will depend on if we have a competitive if not dominant defense that can keep the Seahawks in the game and out of a blowout, and a front line that will let Lynch and Wilson work. AND the receiving corps has to do their job. Heck, I'd even like to see a tight end that could open op the offensive options some.

[marnold]

^^ Haven't seen enough of Seahawks 2012 to know how they'll stack up for four quarters with the Packers, but after that game we should have a clearer picture of how that team does against one of the more talented teams in their conference. Win or lose, I'll be paying attention to how much they're in the game.

I probably follow the Packers more closely than the average non-Packer fan. I have no idea how that game will turn out. None. Since it's in Seattle and Jennings will be out, I'd have to give the Seahawks the edge. Watch the Pack will win 35-0.

[Tig]

Wow, the Vikings are suddenly hot!
I learned a new (to me) name today: Christian Ponder.

The Buc's offense is flaccid today, yet are still keeping the Cowboys within reach going into the 4th...

[R_of_G]

Wow, the Vikings are suddenly hot!
I learned a new (to me) name today: Christian Ponder.

Living in Florida, we get no shortage of FSU and UF games, so I saw plenty of Ponder in college. He was always very impressive. I figured he'd be a solid NFL guy, maybe not a superstar, but someone who could play in the league with some level of consistency.


The Buc's offense is flaccid today, yet are still keeping the Cowboys within reach going into the 4th...

Freeman can't seem to get it to Jackson or be happy getting it anywhere else today. His frustration is causing him to make mistakes. The running game is also not impressive today. I'd like to see them mix Blount in more. Maybe he's still more hurt than they're reporting.

[piebaldpython]

Thought that was pretty cool with 3 OT games today. Made for a lot of excitement. Unfortunately, the Iggles face-planted in Phoenix. They knocked Vick all over the place and then he goes and holds on to the ball too long. UGLY!

[sunvalleylaw]

Wow, seems like the AZ Cards might not be so bad. Handled the Seahawks who beat the Cowboys the next week, beat the Patriots, and now the Eagles.

Well, I am looking forward to Monday night, even if we are facing the Pack, that is coming off a loss. I hope it is a good game, and a decent showing for the Seahawks, win or lose.

[R_of_G]

Thought that was pretty cool with 3 OT games today. Made for a lot of excitement. Unfortunately, the Iggles face-planted in Phoenix. They knocked Vick all over the place and then he goes and holds on to the ball too long. UGLY!

With these officials, they all seem like overtime games.

The 1:00 Bucs game didn't end until a few minutes before 5:00. It's becoming excruciating to watch these games.

It took the officials 5-6 minutes to sort out an interception/incomplete catch that nobody on either team was contesting. I know they automatically review all change of possession plays now, but 5+ minutes seems a lot for a play that both teams already agreed with the call on field.


Wow, seems like the AZ Cards might not be so bad.

Won 10 of their last 12 going back to last season. Excellent defense. They likely won't be taking any more teams by surprise, but they're better than most people, me included, thought going into this season.

Not much to say about the Bucs today. A pretty lackluster game from both teams. I thought the defense looked fairly solid at points, pretty weak at others. The offense still needs a lot of work. Freeman was making poor choices and poor throws. His receivers weren't helping out on balls he did through well. Overall a pretty bad outing. They have Washington at home next week. I'm not looking forward to watching them chase RGIII around all day.

[sunvalleylaw]

I mis-spoke. The Pack are not coming off a loss, that was in their opener. But I expect they will remember that loss. I hope the Seahawks play a good game. On any given day (or night)!

[sunvalleylaw]

wow! all I can say is I saw 'simultaneous possession'. it is not who has more but do they both have?

Espn was pretty opinionated but I don't necessarily agree on that one play. lots of bad calls though

I did like all those sacks in the first half.

[marnold]

Terrible call. That wasn't simultaneous but it was blatant offensive pass interference. Just awful. Conversely, the Packers can't just play one half. Where are you, Ed Hochuli? His massive guns wouldn't have let that happen.

The refs are not the reason the Lions lost, but a 27 yard personal foul in OT didn't help. The line of scrimmage was the 44, just not the Lions 44.

Sorry to hear about Revis. That's a huge blow.

[sunvalleylaw]

I loved all those first half sacks. Also love Lynch's hard nosed, determined, end of game running. Did not love like -1 yards Seahawk offense in the second half until the last drive. To me, Nate got his hands on the ball and in there The defender got more in there, but they both brought the ball in. The push off before that was not called, but apparently those are traditionally not called on the end zone hail marys. But I am a Seahawks fan.

That said, they need to get the real refs back.

[Tig]

Now the real ref's are demanding pay for the games they didn't attend!

I'm mostly siding with the ref's over the NFL mafia greed machine, but come on, guys... Really?

[sunvalleylaw]

Now the real ref's are demanding pay for the games they didn't attend!

I'm mostly siding with the ref's over the NFL mafia greed machine, but come on, guys... Really?

Yeah, I agree. Get it over with!

[piebaldpython]

It's becoming an embarassment to the Leauge. It's like having Mr. Magoo be the ref.

These refs are part-time workers......they have "during the week" jobs and then they go ref a game on the weekend. But considering what they are reffing, the NFL ought to quit jerking them around and treating them like chattel....just sayin'.

[R_of_G]

Two things...

On the call itself, I think the officiating crew got it exactly wrong. Ignoring the blatant offensive pass interference, it was evident to me that the GB defender had possession of the ball prior to Tate also taking some possession of the ball. That is not a "simultaneous possession" situation where it defers to the offensive player. It was case where the defender had prior possession. I wanted Seattle to win. I was rooting for Seattle. That was the wrong call.

Secondly, at this point, I have become quite disappointed with the players' union for allowing this to continue. They could put an end to this today if they declared solidarity with their brethren in the officials' union and refused to risk their health and the integrity of their game until the real officials are returned to their posts.

[sunvalleylaw]

It's becoming an embarassment to the Leauge. It's like having Mr. Magoo be the ref.



The picture of the two refs signaling different calls at the same time on that play will become the poster child for this issue. To a certain extent, I am bummed that the focus will all be on that play. There were lots of calls wrong the other way too, and I felt the refs were letting the Packer offensive line mug the Seahawks in response to all the sacks the Seahawks rung up in the first half. As some players have said in the press, they are going to push it no matter if it is called loose or tight.

But if that play helps end this thing, it will be for the betterment of the game overall.

[R_of_G]

The picture of the two refs signaling different calls at the same time on that play will become the poster child for this issue.

It should become the poster child for the end of Goodell's reign as Emperor of the NFL but the owners seem to lack the courage to fire him. He's catching up to Gary Bettman for worst pro-sports commissioner ever.

[NWBasser]

The first half sacks were absolutely wonderful to see! Clemons was awesome!

That's the positive of the game though.

It was a slow-rolling disaster of a game otherwise due to the incompetent officials. That game made a stark and clear picture of the replacement refs' inability to officiate a game.

I agree completely with R of G about placing full blame on the ruination of the game on Goodell.

With so many bad calls made, it's hard to determine who really could or should have won the game. Any of those calls could have swung things one way or the other.

I think the 'Hawks had more penalty yards than total offense.

As much as I'm a 'Hawks fan, I have to agree that the last call was a huge mistake.

Also, as much as it pains me, I have to admit that the Packers did a great job on defense throughout the game and their second-half offensive adjustments really changed the game.

Unfortunately, my confidence in Wilson is beginning to erode a bit.

[NWBasser]

This article does a great job of addressing the situation:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell-needs-to-clean-up-officiating-mess--hellip-and-issue-a-public-apology.html

[R_of_G]

This article does a great job of addressing the situation:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell-needs-to-clean-up-officiating-mess--hellip-and-issue-a-public-apology.html

This one is a bit more direct. :poke

http://www.happyplace.com/18052/a-guide-to-the-hand-signals-of-the-nfl-replacement-refs

[piebaldpython]

This mess will end when people stop gambling on the games. lol

Think about it........people love their football pools and gambling on the games.....but if they can't more or less rely on the product being delivered, they won't gamble. No way the Vegas/mob honchos let that golden goose get cooked. lol

[R_of_G]

This mess will end when people stop gambling on the games. lol

Think about it........people love their football pools and gambling on the games.....but if they can't more or less rely on the product being delivered, they won't gamble. No way the Vegas/mob honchos let that golden goose get cooked. lol

Don't remember if it was Simmons or Barnwell, but one of the main Grantland guys wrote something the other day about how potentially easy it would be for a gambler/bookmaker to get a single one of these replacement officials in his pocket and create a situation like the NBA had with Tim Donaghy. A handful of calls in the right places could easily swing a football game, or at least influence whether or not a spread is covered.

[piebaldpython]

Might have happened last nite........one ref says TD, the other INT. lol :thwap

[R_of_G]

^^ The worst part of that whole moment was that the two officials looked at each other before making their calls. It was as if both had no confidence in their call and each was waiting for the other to go first.

When they both signaled at the same time, it was only fitting that they called the play completely contradictory to one another.

I was almost convinced the replay official wouldn't confirm either of their calls and determine the play was a third thing entirely.

[NWBasser]

After checking through this a bit I'm a bit confused.

First, it would be fairly common for the regular refs to let go the offensive pass interference call when it's a hail mary situation and so that non-call there may have been consistent with past practices.

Second, after watching it a few times, I'm not entirely sure that Tate didn't get the touchdown after all.

[NWBasser]

^^ The worst part of that whole moment was that the two officials looked at each other before making their calls. It was as if both had no confidence in their call and each was waiting for the other to go first.

When they both signaled at the same time, it was only fitting that they called the play completely contradictory to one another.

I was almost convinced the replay official wouldn't confirm either of their calls and determine the play was a third thing entirely.

A very troubling aspect of this is that there have been a lot of fights and near brawls in several games because the replacements can't handle the situation. If that escalates, it could be very big trouble for the league.

[R_of_G]

After checking through this a bit I'm a bit confused.

First, it would be fairly common for the regular refs to let go the offensive pass interference call when it's a hail mary situation and so that non-call there may have been consistent with past practices.

Second, after watching it a few times, I'm not entirely sure that Tate didn't get the touchdown after all.

I agree that those who focus on the offensive pass interference are pointless. In that situation I have never seen an offensive pass interference call. I'm still sure it wasn't simultaneous possession, which would give the TD to Tate, but what do I know?


A very troubling aspect of this is that there have been a lot of fights and near brawls in several games because the replacements can't handle the situation. If that escalates, it could be very big trouble for the league.

I have very little doubt that if this goes on for another week or two, which it clearly will, that at least one game will get out of control to the point where the league is more embarrassed than they were last night.

We already had Belichick try to grab an official after Sunday's game. Where's the suspension?

Roger Goodell threatened to suspend James Harrison last season for saying mean things about him during a lockout, but he doesn't have the courage to suspend a coach that tried to grab an official? That's ridiculous. I understand Belichick's frustration, but replacements or not, there should be zero tolerance for any physicality with the refs.

[Tig]

It looked like they were about to play paper, rock, scissors!

I don't think the officials will come back anytime soon, unfortunately. As long as viewership remains strong, the NFL and owners continue to make money.

The only way to put a quick end would be a massive viewing boycott. "Keep the TV off for the games and spend time with your family, or enjoying an afternoon outdoors." Hit 'em where it hurts: the pocketbook.

[Tig]

As a completely neutral observer, it was clear to me that Jennings jumped higher, caught the ball first and completely, maintained control, and held it after the others released the ball.

[sunvalleylaw]

"Keep the TV off for the games and spend time with your family, or enjoying an afternoon outdoors." Hit 'em where it hurts: the pocketbook.

That is pretty much the way it is for me most of the time anyway. Because I don't typically get the Seahawks on our local network stations, and now even Monday Night Football is on a pay channel, I watch very little pro ball anymore. How long ago was MNF on ABC? I can't remember. I do remember being in my first year of law school, and taking a study break to check out the Monday night game, and ending up watching Theisman's leg getting broken over and over and over again.

[piebaldpython]

R_of_G said......"We already had Belichick try to grab an official after Sunday's game. Where's the suspension?"

OK, I see your point but I disagree because he was asking for an explanation of what happened and the ref just walked by him and didn't acknowledge him at all. These refs/umps in any sport should at least acknowledge who is asking them a question......even if what that person says is going in one ear and out the other. lol

I'm surprised the Players Union hasn't said that they can't play because it's getting too dangerous w/using High School and Division III refs

[marnold]

Apparently the MNF game is prompting a settlement. ESPN is reporting that they are nearing a deal that might put the real refs (free Ed Hochuli!) on the field for this weekend's games. People are wondering if it would be fair to have replacements for Thursday's game but regular refs for Sunday. For me a bigger concern would be the possibility of a replacement being bought off since he'd have nothing to lose. I heard that there were 75,000 messages left at the league office after the MNF game.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8427652/locked-nfl-referees-return-early-week-sources

[marnold]

We already had Belichick try to grab an official after Sunday's game. Where's the suspension?

The NFL fined him $50K today and hit Kyle Shanahan for $25K.

[R_of_G]

R_of_G said......"We already had Belichick try to grab an official after Sunday's game. Where's the suspension?"

OK, I see your point but I disagree because he was asking for an explanation of what happened and the ref just walked by him and didn't acknowledge him at all. These refs/umps in any sport should at least acknowledge who is asking them a question......even if what that person says is going in one ear and out the other. lol

He has every right to try to get the official's attention, but there are very specific and strict rules against touching the officials. Had that been a player, I suspect we'd have seen a much bigger penalty than the $50K they fined him (thanks Marnold for that info).


For me a bigger concern would be the possibility of a replacement being bought off since he'd have nothing to lose. I heard that there were 75,000 messages left at the league office after the MNF game.

I suppose when the Browns win tomorrow night's game, we'll know the scab refs were in someone's pocket.

[piebaldpython]

Let's get the real refs because so that we can piss and moan about how BLIND they are. lol

It'll be nice seeing Guns Hochuli back on the field. He always sparks female viewership. lol

[sunvalleylaw]

Regarding giving the Seahawks the game, maybe, as the game stood at that point. But GB's drive to regain the lead was also helped when the sub-refs also blew the PI call on Chancellor that would have made the Packers punt on their 2nd TD drive, and the yellow line is not official, but it appears they used it to give Rodgers the first down at the Seahawk 1... so, the Packers get a TD instead of a field goal... it happened to both teams Monday night... without those 2 screw ups the Seahawks only need a field goal to win, and the hail mary never happens...

We all agree that the refs blew it, and particularly on that one call. But I am going to advocate for my team and say that the refs did not necessarily hand them the game overall. 8 sacks of Rodgers in the first half, and though GB dominated possession in the second half, they were behind until the mistakes mentioned above.

[NWBasser]

There were so many bad calls made on critical plays in that game that it's anyone's guess who should have actually won.

The PI call on Chancellor is one, but there was also a bad unnecessary roughness call against Green Bay when Wilson threw an interception.

[sunvalleylaw]

True, though that was a pretty late hit that was low in the legs, so under today's standards might not be such a bad call. That one is more judgment than a blown call IMO. Hard to say who "should" have won.

[R_of_G]

There were so many bad calls made on critical plays in that game that it's anyone's guess who should have actually won.

I think that's the takeaway from this whole thing. The one obvious bad call is getting all the attention because it did come on a final and game-deciding play. Still, it's but one of dozens of wrong calls happening in every game.

I suppose in some ways one could argue that it makes the games more suspenseful or something, but not in the good way. It's like the tacked-on twist ending you knew was coming but somehow hoped to avoid (I'm looking at you M. Night Shyamalan).

[Tig]

There were so many bad calls made on critical plays in that game that it's anyone's guess who should have actually won.

Yep, that's the bottom line alright.


It's like the tacked-on twist ending you knew was coming but somehow hoped to avoid (I'm looking at you M. Night Shyamalan).

http://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/images/smilies/m_coffeespit.gif

[Tig]

NFL confirms new deal between league, officials is done
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/several-reports-indicate-deal-between-nfl-officials-imminent-023915580--nfl.html

[sunvalleylaw]

It will be interesting to see if the players and coaches dial back in what some news articles said was an attempt by some to "push the envelope" on the rules, now that the regular guys will be back. I also hope there will not be "retribution" calls against the Seahawks. You know how big NBA players seem to get calls over other players? Well, I have felt that certain NFL teams get a little benefit of the doubt over others.

But, it will should be better than what was going on the last few weeks.

[R_of_G]

Heard a report this morning that the cost to each of the 32 teams to settle this dispute is slightly over $100,000. Given the approximate value of each franchise at $1 billion, it shows how petty the NFL owners and their errand boy Goodell can be.

Could Goodell have been more disingenuous about the pension request than suggesting that he doesn't have a pension so why should the refs? How about because the refs don't make $20 million/year like Goodell does?

For that kind of greed and arrogance we got three weeks of shoddily officiated football where the outcomes of games were affected.

Bravo Goodell. Every day he narrows the gap between himself and Gary Bettman for worst commissioner ever.

[marnold]

Bravo Goodell. Every day he narrows the gap between himself and Gary Bettman for worst commissioner ever.

Gary's lapped him several times. If, for no other reason, that he was never a hockey guy before becoming commish. Goodell doesn't get booed lustily by everyone in the stadium every time he hands off the Lombardi trophy.

Having said that, let's not kid ourselves. Those guys are in place because the owners want them in place. Period. They work for the owners. They do what the owners want them to do. In that way, the NFL is worse than the NHL because the NFL is drowning in money. The problem with the NHL is that too many owners are brutally incompetent, don't care, or are jerks (yes, I'm looking in Boston's general direction, as well as the late "Dollar" Bill Wirtz). I fear that the NHL labor struggle will not be solved this calendar year and perhaps not this season. That, however, is a story for another thread.

[piebaldpython]

OK......how to say this????........the refs need pre-season too......in terms of getting their physical conditioning back, especially their "wind"....with the obvious exception of Ed "Two Guns" Hochuli.

I just hope that the injury report tonite and Sunday doesn't also include refs having twisted knees/ankles or worse yet, heart attacks.

Did Goodell really say the refs don't need a pension increase because he doesn't get a pension? What an arrogant SOB. Hey, I would glady give up a pension to get the "golden parachute" Goodell will get when he leaves the NFL....in addition to the ridiculous salary he must draw.

[R_of_G]

Gary's lapped him several times. If, for no other reason, that he was never a hockey guy before becoming commish. Goodell doesn't get booed lustily by everyone in the stadium every time he hands off the Lombardi trophy.

Having said that, let's not kid ourselves. Those guys are in place because the owners want them in place. Period. They work for the owners. They do what the owners want them to do. In that way, the NFL is worse than the NHL because the NFL is drowning in money. The problem with the NHL is that too many owners are brutally incompetent, don't care, or are jerks (yes, I'm looking in Boston's general direction, as well as the late "Dollar" Bill Wirtz). I fear that the NHL labor struggle will not be solved this calendar year and perhaps not this season. That, however, is a story for another thread.

I tend to pro-rate Goodell's failures because the league is so financially successful. You're absolutely right that the commissioners are nothing more than the errand boys of ownership, but at some point he has to stand up to them if for no other reason than to remind them not to kill the golden goose.



Did Goodell really say the refs don't need a pension increase because he doesn't get a pension? What an arrogant SOB. Hey, I would glady give up a pension to get the "golden parachute" Goodell will get when he leaves the NFL....in addition to the ridiculous salary he must draw.

He did indeed.

"From the owners' standpoint, right now they're funding a pension program that is a defined benefit program," said Goodell, who was in Washington on Wednesday attending a luncheon hosted by Politico's Playbook. "About ten percent of the country has that. Yours truly doesn't have that. It's something that doesn’t really exist anymore and that I think is going away steadily." - SOURCE: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/nfl-referee-lockout-pensions_n_1879049.html

[R_of_G]

Any more question about why I decided this spring to leave Jets' fandom in my past?

What they did today was exactly what I expected out of this team. Any fans surprised by today's performance are the kind that wear the gear and talk the trash but don't actually watch the games, because nothing about the way they played today should surprise anyone who watched even a single game last season.

There's no waiting for Mark Sanchez to develop. This is what he is. Terrible. Instead of facing that fact and either bringing in a veteran back-up, drafting a rookie, or letting McElroy challenge Sanchez in camp, they decided to go the circus sideshow route and bring in Tebow.

Anybody see the pass Tebow threw today? Sure, he completed it, but his signature inaccuracy caused his receiver to get injured on the ensuing hit.

I still don't know what the deal was with the Santonio Holmes reception/injury/fumble. Obviously he seriously hurt his knee on the play but I've yet to figure out how that translates to him just tossing the ball to an opposing player before the play is ruled dead. I feel badly that he's injured, but that's simply dumb play.

It's Rex Ryan's No Ring Circus.

Some of my twitter Jets friends have scolded me that they're still 2-2, tied for the division lead. When the wins are against Buffalo and Miami, and the losses are against Pittsburgh and San Francisco, it says quite a bit about that 2-2.

PS. I find it all absolutely hilarious. I hope the trainwreck continues unabated. Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan deserve to be humiliated by this team they've assembled.

PPS. The Jets cannot stop the run. If you have Arian Foster on your fantasy team, play him next week because he'll put up 200 yards against those clowns.

[Tig]

That game didn't air here, but ouch! Looks like they'll be 2-3 next Monday night unless the Texans' plane crashes.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2012/09/30/0ap1000000067701.jpg (http://www.nfl.com/news/around-the-league?id=0ap1000000067705&module=HP11_headline_stack)
'We got our *** kicked' (http://www.nfl.com/news/around-the-league?id=0ap1000000067705&module=HP11_headline_stack)

[R_of_G]

Rex Ryan's fiery speech about the recipe for getting their a**es kicked was cute and got a lot of headlines, but he has only himself and Mike Tannenbaum to blame. They bought the ingredients. There's no excuse at this point for not knowing Sanchez is this bad.

[piebaldpython]

Iggles pull out another one in the last few minutes.....again. 3 wins by a total of 4 pts. I thought Reid calling that last second time out when the field goal wound up being missed was gonna cost us.....lucky for him it didn't. The officiating was OK and it seemed to even itself out over the course of the game.

So glad to see the Jets get schneidered. I guess Tebow will come in......they'll run some version of a wishbone and they'll run 95% of the time. aha

That QB for the Texans seems like the real deal.

[R_of_G]

Iggles pull out another one in the last few minutes.....again. 3 wins by a total of 4 pts. I thought Reid calling that last second time out when the field goal wound up being missed was gonna cost us.....lucky for him it didn't. The officiating was OK and it seemed to even itself out over the course of the game.

When Reid called the timeout, I was convinced the Giants would make the second attempt and I thought "Man, is PBP gonna be fired up about this!"



So glad to see the Jets get schneidered. I guess Tebow will come in......they'll run some version of a wishbone and they'll run 95% of the time.

If they had any sense, they'd skip straight to McElroy. The Jets lack the personnel to run the spread option full time. They also lack the defense to keep things close enough to hope for some fourth quarter Tebow miracle. What good would his fourth quarter heroics do a team down 34-0 in the fourth? Of course, I predicated this by saying "if they had any sense." They do not. The circus will continue.

[piebaldpython]

When Reid called the timeout, I was convinced the Giants would make the second attempt and I thought "Man, is PBP gonna be fired up about this!".

hahaha I saw the missed field goal.......and then the "late" time-out by Reid and I threw a s**t-fit at the TV. I texted my daughter and she was freaking out too. UGH!!!! lol

These close last-minute wins are a double-edged sword.......first, it gives you confidence that you can win close games and if you are in one that you feel calm that you can pull-through and win in the end.........BUT......it can make you complacent and that can show up by not stomping on a team's throat and putting them away early if the opportunity presents itself.

Steeler's next week after they had a bye this week. Our D is driving us crazy here in Philly. Sometimes they look good and focused and.....other times.......they resemble the Keystone Kops.....clueless almost. Weird.

[NWBasser]

It appears to me that with the "background noise" of the replacement refs out of the way of the flow of the game, I finally got to see that the Seahawks are not as good as I hoped.

They got handled pretty well by the Rams. Wilson had three interceptions although it was apparent that a couple weren't really on him. Baldwin let one pass slip through his hands and into the defender's for instance.

That said, Wilson doesn't look anywhere near the QB he did in the preseason and I'm having some serious doubts about his abilities. He has a lot of tipped balls, and I can't help but think his lack of height is working against him.

We've had such a mediocre team for so long, I wonder if Carroll is up to the task of winning games.

Congrats to PBP for the win last night. It was a very fun game to watch at least.

[sunvalleylaw]

Hey, the Seahawks won on the road, and apparently played some pretty ok defense! And though the QB arguing is likely not over, Wilson had a pretty decent game despite a couple interceptions. Cool!

[R_of_G]

Congratulations to Drew Brees for throwing a TD in his 48th consecutive game, surpassing Johnny Unitas for the record. It's quite an accomplishment.

[NWBasser]

Hey, the Seahawks won on the road, and apparently played some pretty ok defense! And though the QB arguing is likely not over, Wilson had a pretty decent game despite a couple interceptions. Cool!

Yep, the defense was pretty well on fire! They dominated the game.

Wilson did have some good plays, but he's still repeating some of the same mistakes that he's been making. He threw to the short yard receiver several times on third downs when there was an open receiver farther down field. He can't get it done on third and long situations which will lose games when they play better teams.

Maybe Wilson will improve. Or, maybe Flynn's the better choice at this point.

[sunvalleylaw]

I was not able to watch. Thanks for the more full report. Time will tell on Wilson, Flynn, or whomever I suppose. The Tacoma News Tribune sportswriter had some interesting thoughts on the QB/receiver subject, that places a bit more blame on the receiving crew: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/10/07/2323280/wilson-or-flynn-first-get-a-target.html

Doesn't answer the question of what QB is better for now, but points out some other problems.

[NWBasser]

Yeah Steve, even a superstar QB couldn't keep Baldwin from letting the ball slip through his hands and into the defender's.

Or McCoy from tripping over his own feet...

It's really frustrating because we have a supreme defense, but an offense that won't be able to win games.

Sort of like the Mariners with their great pitchers, but no run support whatsoever.

[piebaldpython]

Iggles lost a tough one to the Steelers. Still......Vick loses another fumble (on the goal line too) and Andy Reid wastes more time-outs that he needs at the end of the game. AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!

Jets did better than I thought they would last nite. Can't anyone shut Jon Gruden up.......? He has to show everybody that he knows every convoluted name of every play.......like who cares? Just tell us what the play is designed to do and why or why not it didn't work.

[R_of_G]

Jets did better than I thought they would last nite.

It would appear that way at first, but take out the McKnight kickoff return for a TD and you have an offense that only scored 10 points in another game of Sanchez completing less than 50% of his passes and throwing more INTs than TDs. Another game where the run was not effective. Sparano clearly has no game plan for Tebow. The fans calling for him better watch what they wish for because he contributes nothing except getting way too psyched up for pretty meaningless plays.


Can't anyone shut Jon Gruden up.......? He has to show everybody that he knows every convoluted name of every play.......like who cares? Just tell us what the play is designed to do and why or why not it didn't work.

And there's the key difference between Gruden and Jaworski or Mayock. Gruden can tell you what every team through history has called a specific play, but he can't explain it to anyone that doesn't already understand the jargon (and he uses too many superlatives.)

[sunvalleylaw]

Can't anyone shut Jon Gruden up.......?

Though I had to agree there were some bad calls in that Seahawks/Packers game, and that the last call stunk, I could not stand how he approached and discussed the topic. I found him to be obnoxious, and did not enjoy his commentary at all. Using all that jargon makes the commentary more about him and how cool he is rather than helping the viewer understand and enjoy the play of the game.

[R_of_G]

Gruden is another facet of how ESPN is killing sports by making it more about the personalities and their assorted catchphrases than the games they cover. I wish a network would do an "announcerless" game again like they did once in the 80s. I'm used to watching with the sound off and music on, but I'd rather watch with the natural sound from the stadium and no announcers (like actually being at the event).

[sunvalleylaw]

I'm used to watching with the sound off and music on, but I'd rather watch with the natural sound from the stadium and no announcers (like actually being at the event).

That would be a nice option. Or even just the stadium announcer, which I guess you would get from the stadium sound. They generally stay away from foolish analysis or yacking just to hear themselves yack.

[sunvalleylaw]

And you know, I just had a thought. An epiphany almost. I don't get all worked up at games I attend and just see the game. It only happens watching the TV coverage with the commentary. I think I will try watching without the sound next time. My Dad used to turn on the TV, but turn the sound down, and listen to the local radio coverage back in the day. But I can't find a feed here that I am aware of for the local coverage from Seattle.

[R_of_G]

That would be a nice option. Or even just the stadium announcer, which I guess you would get from the stadium sound. They generally stay away from foolish analysis or yacking just to hear themselves yack.

Yup, with the nat sound you'd get the hits from the game, the crowd noise, and the stadium PA announcer who typically just announces who made a play, and down and distance.

[Tig]

I'd love that, too.
There are a few commentators that I don't mind, but the others get in the way.

The Texans must have had a rough night. I couldn't watch it from work, but the stat's showed Andre Johnson was either well covered, or sick. The talent this team has should never have let the score get that close in the 4th. The last interception saved their butts! If Houston plays like this again, they will lose.

[NWBasser]

And you know, I just had a thought. An epiphany almost. I don't get all worked up at games I attend and just see the game. It only happens watching the TV coverage with the commentary. I think I will try watching without the sound next time. My Dad used to turn on the TV, but turn the sound down, and listen to the local radio coverage back in the day. But I can't find a feed here that I am aware of for the local coverage from Seattle.

That just what my grandpa used to do!

I do actually like Al Micheals and Chris Collinsworth on the Sunday night games though. Always been a fan of Al Micheals.

[piebaldpython]

I watched most of the game and Cromartie was ALL over Johnson like flypaper....it was fascinating to watch because they had a camera on those 2 for a while.

I love to watch a sporting even with an announcer who explains things concisely without much jargon. It CAN be done. John McEnroe is great at doing the announcing during tennis...he explains things without acting like a know-it-all. And he explains why this work but that didn't.

[NWBasser]

I'd love that, too.
There are a few commentators that I don't mind, but the others get in the way.

The Texans must have had a rough night. I couldn't watch it from work, but the stat's showed Andre Johnson was either well covered, or sick. The talent this team has should never have let the score get that close in the 4th. The last interception saved their butts! If Houston plays like this again, they will lose.

Congrats to your team Doug. Your Texans are really impressive this season.

I hope I'll get to see one of their games soon.

[R_of_G]

I love to watch a sporting even with an announcer who explains things concisely without much jargon. It CAN be done. John McEnroe is great at doing the announcing during tennis...he explains things without acting like a know-it-all. And he explains why this work but that didn't.

A good analyst can add much to a broadcast. Sadly, I think the only decent one in the NFL right now is Mayock since ESPN has moved Jaws exclusively to the studio. There are some good play-by-play guys out there (Al Michaels, Gus Johnson, Brad Nessler) but not enough good analysts. I used to like Tirico, but he's become too ESPN for me.

[Tig]

Thx. Hopefully they'll have it all together when it counts. They are strong on both offense and defense in almost every position.
The last time we had a good football team was when Earl Campbell played for the Oilers!

http://www.thevictoryformation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Earl-Campbell.jpg

[Tig]

I do actually like Al Micheals and Chris Collinsworth on the Sunday night games though. Always been a fan of Al Micheals.

I agree. They add to the game without distracting the viewer.

[R_of_G]

I agree. They add to the game without distracting the viewer.

Love Michaels. He's the ultimate pro.

Collinsworth not so much. He's become very much another one that wants to talk about individual players as if it's not a team sport. He played the game. He should know better. He should be the one to tell us that no, we won't see a great matchup between Drew Brees and Philip Rivers because they'll never set foot on the field at the same time.

[R_of_G]

Geez, I sound so negative about sports these days. When did I turn into my dad?

[sunvalleylaw]

I agree. They add to the game without distracting the viewer.

Yeah, those guys are better. Though Collinsworth gets a little mouth diarrhea at times.

[Tig]

When did I turn into my dad?

:thwap It happens!
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQl4V7rj-F8o3onWt_m683x_sJRPd_j2KeDMjcR_ulnSBS9IC5NpSuSVMxf Lg

[Tig]

IND @ NYJ

A. The Colts had a bad day.
B. The Jets finally had a good day.
C. Who are you and what did you do with the real Jets?

[sunvalleylaw]

Seahawks fact the Patriots today. The defense has played well, but the Patriots are of course a strong team and offense, and there has not been much offense on our side. The game is supposed to be on CBS, so I should be able to catch it.

[R_of_G]

IND @ NYJ

A. The Colts had a bad day.
B. The Jets finally had a good day.
C. Who are you and what did you do with the real Jets?

D. The solution to the Jets problem was evident all along. Only play crappy teams. They're talented enough to make the Colts look like, well, the Colts.

Was nice to see the Bucs turn things around coming off the bye week. They're not a playoff team this year, but they're better than their record going in to today indicated.

Most impressive to me was how they were able to limit Jamaal Charles' running yardage today. When healthy, he's one of the best and the Bucs were able to keep him from having a big day.

Freeman looked strong. Mike Williams is a superstar WR in the making. Having him on one side and Jackson on the other can put a lot of pressure on a secondary.

Great win for the Bucs today.

[mrmudcat]

Best game I caught was balt./ dallas and oak/atl.............Baltimore/ Dallas was real entertaining!! Even my Phins won woohoo:dance

[piebaldpython]

Another choke for the IGGLES. They couldn't put the Lions away and then stunk up the joint in OT to the tune of 3rd and 31 from their own 5 yard line. Wonderful......just friggin' wonderful. They truly are maddening......the corners shut down Megatron the first half......Vick has the 79 yd TD pass to Maclin........AND THEN holds on the ball too long in OT.

Don't even get me started on Reid..........

[marnold]

Another choke for the IGGLES. They couldn't put the Lions away and then stunk up the joint in OT to the tune of 3rd and 31 from their own 5 yard line. Wonderful......just friggin' wonderful. They truly are maddening......the corners shut down Megatron the first half......Vick has the 79 yd TD pass to Maclin........AND THEN holds on the ball too long in OT.

Don't even get me started on Reid..........

Phear the Kittehs! I was pretty irritated around halftime. The only reason I kept watching was because of Stafford's ability to pull the game out in the fourth quarter. My faith was repaid. The Lions' line hit Vick a lot. It'd be nice if they'd, say, get a lead and hold it.

Combine that with two Tigers victories in the Bronx and it's been a pretty good weekend for this former Michigander.

[sunvalleylaw]

Seahawks face the Patriots today. The defense has played well, but the Patriots are of course a strong team and offense, and there has not been much offense on our side. The game is supposed to be on CBS, so I should be able to catch it.

Well, that was enjoyable to watch. The Seahawks D did not completely shut the Pats down, but they held. They did a very good job on shutting down the run, putting pressure on Brady (though few sacks), and making key plays to break up some passes, and had a couple turnovers. And held at critical times too. The offense woke up some, and particularly the passing game. Lynch produced some with some very tough running, but was not the only thing going. Wilson did not have a great 3rd quarter, but made some amazing plays both running and passing. Some beautiful long balls! Way to go Seahawks!

As a friend of mine said, "Congrats to all the "experts on NFL Network, Fox, and ESPN... Who ALL picked the Patriots!"

[Tig]

Texans=
http://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/images/icons/AddEmoticons0051.gif http://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/images/smilies/sackrace.gif

[R_of_G]

As a friend of mine said, "Congrats to all the "experts on NFL Network, Fox, and ESPN... Who ALL picked the Patriots!"

Yes, and a special congrats to all of them that billed it as a showdown between the veteran Brady and the rookie Wilson, two men who were never once on the field at the same time. One day these experts will realize football is a team sport.

Excellent win for the Seahawks.

[Tig]

JJ Watt!
(don't try this at home, kids)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0gsgyY_QW0

[NWBasser]

Texans=
http://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/images/icons/AddEmoticons0051.gif http://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/images/smilies/sackrace.gif

I finally got to watch your Texans last night Tig. For you, I was hoping that they'd win. And I wanted to see this great unbeaten team play.

Well...that really didn't turn out very so great.

[R_of_G]

Luckily for the Texans, the AFC is extremely weak this year. They didn't make a great showing last night, but they're clearly one of the stronger teams in a pretty mediocre conference.

[NWBasser]

Excellent win for the Seahawks.

It was really a great game and was a showdown between the Pats high-power offense and our very good defense. At the half, the Pats led 17-10 and things were not looking so good for my 'Hawks.

Second half and my hero Earl Thomas picked Brady in the endzone and ran it back about 20 yards. Wilson got going and completed a 50 yard TD pass to Sydney Rice. Sherman picked Brady.

I really didn't expect them to beat the Pats with the lackluster offense that we've had so far, but was hoping it would at least be close.

The offense took serious advantage of the Pats weak secondary and the defense just kept at it until they started having some success in the second half.

The 'Hawks trailed 23-10 with 8 minutes left in the game and came back with two TDs while keeping the Pats from scoring. It made for a very exciting win!

Brady had been doing all manner of trash-talking before the game, saying that he'd shut up the crowd quickly and whatnot. He looked most unhappy afterward...

[NWBasser]

Way to go Seahawks!

As a friend of mine said, "Congrats to all the "experts on NFL Network, Fox, and ESPN... Who ALL picked the Patriots!"

Snicker, snicker, laugh, laugh.

I hope they can beat the 'Niners on Thursday.

[R_of_G]

Brady had been doing all manner of trash-talking before the game, saying that he'd shut up the crowd quickly and whatnot. He looked most unhappy afterward...

Brady learned a valuable lesson there, best to leave the trash-talking until the game is actually played. Instead he left the Seahawks players and fans with the quintessential comeback to any trash talk from a losing team... "The scoreboard says you're wrong."

[sunvalleylaw]

Snicker, snicker, laugh, laugh.

I hope they can beat the 'Niners on Thursday.

that will be a big challenge on the short week. hopefully the team can maintain focus. I think they can but it will be a challenge.

[Tig]

I finally got to watch your Texans last night Tig. For you, I was hoping that they'd win. And I wanted to see this great unbeaten team play.

Well...that really didn't turn out very so great.

I saw the Texans play a few times last night, but wasn't sure who else was playing the rest of the time. I looked at my wife at about the 3rd play and said, "I have a bad feeling about this". We were wondering how they would respond to a good team, and they blew it!

They were just so-so against the Jets last week, and pathetic against the Packers. Maybe this will snap them out of their over confidence.

[kidsmoke]

Brady had been doing all manner of trash-talking before the game, saying that he'd shut up the crowd quickly and whatnot. He looked most unhappy afterward...

dyed in the wool Patriots fan here. As in I knew where Chuck Fairbanks lived. So the recent success, nauseating as it is to the general public, is very much appreciated. Hearing that Brady was talking smack is really frustrating. Typically he's very good at avoiding that sort of thing, which is one of the reason's he's so revered by the fans, particularly with the Red Sox well deserved implosion and in the Paul Pierce era...
Anyone who has watched them play over the years has seen the barely contained intensity he brings, and it's an awesome asset. I for one would be putting my foot in my mouth a heck of a lot more often.

Hats off to the Seahawks, I love seeing that franchise play solid football, and they hung in there. i do not understandthe hype around the team this year. Brady is solid as ever, and he does an amazing job with the revolving door of receivers he always seems to have. But the offense has to be on the field to perform, and that means the defense has to be winning it's battles, and it seems to me they have yet to do anything impressive. Was no one watching as Joe Flacco, yeah, Joe Flacco, dissected them in the fourth quarter...repeatedly throwing passes into double coverge 15 yards out on the right....only to have the backs watch the receiver catch the ball unmolested? And by repeatedly I mean REPEATEDLY, as in, he did it again on the VERY NEXT PLAY?!?!? How can a team that allows that expect to win in a smashmouth against a young rising team at home in the fourth quarter?

They're probably the best team in the AFC East, but they are not the juggernaught they've been, and they have too many inconsistent performers for the prognosis they keep receiving. I mean....this isn't the squad with Seymour, Bruschi, McGinest, Harrison, Vrabel, Samuel....those players would keep giving the Brady Bunch the ball. These guys...I've got little faith.

[kidsmoke]

Brady learned a valuable lesson there,

I hope so....you'd think he'd have learned after publicly laughing at the notion that his offense would be held below 20 by the Giants defense after their undefeated 2007 campaign....talk about bulletin board fodder and public smackdown.

18-1 never hurt so bad.

[NWBasser]

Anyone who has watched them play over the years has seen the barely contained intensity he brings, and it's an awesome asset.

I absolutely have a ton of respect for Brady and am an almost-Pats fan. I'll always side with my team though and his smack talk was very irritating.

As Richard Sherman (Sea. CB) said, Brady was one guy going against 11 very tight and committed defenders. They're not a bunch that you want to piss off in any way.

Like you said, Brady, as great as he is, can't win games with a defense playing like that.

Except when we're playing them, I generally enjoy watching the Pats play in their dominating style and have alot of admiration for them.

[sunvalleylaw]

I respect Brady's skills. I don't like his apparent personality on the field. He tends to look arrogant, pouty, complain to the officials a lot, and have body language that is for lack of a better word, annoying. Granted, a lot of other QB's have that going too. I used to think the same about Elway. (But in the interests of fairness and full disclosure, both those QB's (especially Elway) served opposing teams.) ;-)

But I don't like whiny or arrogant appearing QB's. And Brady brought it on himself. To me, it is like strikers or other star players in soccer that flop and act hurt to manipulate play. When Brady got his, you saw him all over the officials. You did not see that out of Wilson. Same with a lot of other QB's. I seem to remember Warren Moon being pretty business like for one. If I think about it longer, I can come up with some others.


That said, while Sherman's comments were fun for an evening, I hope he is done and is returning to focus on the game, and getting prepared for Thursday. He needs to learn to let it go after a comment or two made in exuberance, and as one Patriot fan put it, "act like you have won a game before". I am willing to let him be young and exuberant to a point, but back to bizness!

Krieg (former Seahawk QB) used to whine to the officials a bit. It bugged me then too.

Oh, and about those calls for hits on the QB, I did not like either call. The one where Brady received some helmet contact, and the one where the Pat player hit Wilson in the helmet with his arm. To me, that was just part of the play. Nothing intentional, late or overly rough. I know the rules have been changed, but I don't like those calls.


I want to re-emphasize that I respect Brady and what he is able to do. I also understand that some of his behavior comes from his uber intensity. Same was true of Elway. Still can be irritating though.

[R_of_G]

So Norv Turner is still the Chargers coach this morning? What a poor showing on both sides of the ball in the second half.

[marnold]

Whelp, it seems like it's back to square one in Cleveland. I've always felt a certain affinity with the folks on the other side of Lake Erie. Both the Lions and Browns were 50s powerhouses, but neither has been worth much of anything, in general, since then. Hopefully a new owner will help.

[piebaldpython]

Iggles just fired defensive coordinator Juan Castillo.........who until last year was only a coach on Offense.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/sports/pro/football&id=8848986

So, when will the owners make Andy Reid pay for his stupidity in promoting Castillo to DC.....amongst all the other stupid things he does......poor clock management.......questionable strategy and play calling......etc???

[R_of_G]

Iggles just fired defensive coordinator Juan Castillo.........who until last year was only a coach on Offense.

Who could have ever predicted this wouldn't work out?

[R_of_G]

Huge game for the Bucs today when they welcome the Saints to town.

The Saints desperately need a win and the Bucs would love to build on last week's drubbing of the Chiefs.

Local tv blackout has been lifted. Bucs to wear the throwback creamsicle uniforms with the Bucco Bruce helmets.

A big win today would go a long way towards righting the (pirate) ship for 2012.

On a general NFL note, I thought some of you guys might appreciate this piece Grantland's Bill Simmons wrote about Commissioner Goodell and the current state of the NFL with respect to player safety. It's a long but good read.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8524001/a-hierarchy-hypocrites

[sunvalleylaw]

I didn't get to see the end of the Seahawks/49'ers. It was still 6 - 3 Seahawks in the third last time I saw the game. But I heard there was a let down on the Seahawks end, and some dropped passes that would have made a difference. Too bad. But a young team and it is not unpredictable that could happen. Also, the anti Wilson folks are beating their drum again. I can't believe how fickle week to week football fans can be. IF the receivers don't hold on to passes thrown to their hands, you can't blame it on the QB, especially one who seems to be developing over a season into a very good leader and competitor.

[Tig]

Nice to see the Texans showed up for this game. If they played this way last week, yada, yada...
Matt Schaub didn't pass too well, but his receivers made him look good. He hasn't played near his ability in the last 3 games, actually.

[Tig]

I feel your pain, R_of_G. We watched most of the game, both the good and bad moments. The bad's were too much to overcome.

[R_of_G]

I feel your pain, R_of_G. We watched most of the game, both the good and bad moments. The bad's were too much to overcome.

The two that stuck with me...

1) The defensive series in the 2nd quarter where they had the Saints backed up well into their own end only to give up a big play to extend the drive which allowed the Saints to erase the early lead the Bucs had established.

2) The Bucs failure to score on four straight tries inside the two. After Blount failed the first two times, I'd have tried Martin on 3rd and kicked a FG on 4th before I tried throwing it or having Freeman run it. Instead they did those two things on 3rd and 4th with progressively worse results.

Make that defensive stop and get some points on that series and they win the game.

Still, overall it was a solid performance from this team and highlighted a lot of what makes me think they're headed in the right direction.

The first three draft picks, S Mark Barron, RB Doug Martin, and LB Lavonte David are all starting and playing very well. The three big free agent pickups WR Vincent Jackson, G Carl Nicks, and TE Dallas Clark are all contributing to the development of the new offensive system. Josh Freeman is looking more and more confident (I'm sure Vincent Jackson helps a lot with that). Another offseason like the last and they will be in good shape.

[Tig]

I meant the Jets/Pat's game. :thwap
I did watch the last quarter of the Saints game.

[R_of_G]

I meant the Jets/Pat's game. :thwap
I did watch the last quarter of the Saints game.

I feel no pain from any Jets' game any more. I meant what I said going into this season, to me they're nothing more than one of the other 31 teams that aren't the Bucs.

[piebaldpython]

The WATCH is underway in Philly. We had a bye week...Reid fired his former offensive coach turned Defensive Coordinator in the interim.......... and this Sunday have a home game against the undefeated Falcons. The IGGLES typically kick-butt after a bye week. The WATCH pertains to Reid and Vick.....as in if the Team and/or Vick don't perform well........Vick could wind up with splinters......and maybe just maybe we get rid of Big Ole Dumb Reid.

[R_of_G]

If I were still a Jets' fan, that would not have been nearly as hilarious a three hours to spend as it was. Blown out at home by the Dolphins going into the bye week with a losing record. Have fun with the press this week Rex.

[piebaldpython]

Lucky for Rex, the hurricane and massive storm surge is all NYC cares about for the next few days.

[Tig]

Mrs. T and I have tickets to see the Bill's at Texans this Sunday. This will be her first NFL game in a long time, and my second time to watch the Texans. He doctor has season tickets that wouldn't get used this week. :AOK

[R_of_G]

Well the Bucs made that one a little more exciting a win than it needed to be.

At one point in the fourth quarter, the Bucs were up by 18. Not long after, they were up by 3 with under 3:00 to go and the Raiders had the ball. Luckily, Carson Palmer forgot that Ahmad Black plays for the Bucs and not his Raiders. That game-saving INT was one of three key plays Black made yesterday.

I cannot say enough good things about rookie RB Doug Martin. I was thrilled when they drafted him. I've been impressed each week with the improvements he makes. If last week was a "breakout" game for him, yesterday was a "vote for me for rookie of the year" game. What's most impressive about his 251 yards 4 TD performance is that he did it behind a line that was missing All-Pro G Carl Nicks. I was exceptionally pleased with the performance of the Bucs offensive line on both run and pass protection.

Most importantly, the Bucs hit the 8 game mark at 4-4. They now have as many wins as they did all of last season. If they can split the final 8 games like they did the first, I will think this a wildly successful first season under Coach Schiano.

[Tig]

The Buc's and the Seahawks looked good during the minutes I watched.

[NWBasser]

What a great day for Fretter football.

Victories by the 'Hawks, Texans, and Bucs.

For us, Russell Wilson did an awesome job throughout the game. It was scary though seeing Adrian Peterson run for over 200 yards on our defense. Earl Thomas, as usual, was the bright spot of our D.

For R of G, all I can say is WOW! I saw the highlights of Martin's totally amazing runs. Holy carp that guy can run.

[R_of_G]

For R of G, all I can say is WOW! I saw the highlights of Martin's totally amazing runs. Holy carp that guy can run.

My dad is one of those old-school football fans that gets agitated when people overhype rookies/prospects so I know that on draft night, if he raves about a college football player, that player is going to be the real deal. Draft night he was telling me that Richardson would go first, but when the history books are written, it will be Doug Martin who proves to be the best RB in this draft. When the Bucs moved back into the first round for a second dip and drafted him with that pick, Dad called me thrilled that Martin was coming to one of the teams our family follows.

The past two weeks have allowed the rest of the NFL to see what I had my eyes open to in the pre-season. This kid is the complete package at RB. The last two games say everything needed about his skills as a runner, but what I've also seen is a RB that despite being on the small side, he is willing and able to effectively block on pass protection plays. He can catch the ball both out of the backfield and split out wide.

I'm never a big fan of comparing a young player to established players, but I think the Ray Rice comparisons are apt in this case. Their games are extremely similar, and most promising about that, it was Coach Schiano at Rutgers that molded Rice into the player he is. If he can do the same with Martin, this kid will be a superstar.

[Tig]

I woke up with a cold Sunday morning, so the whole process of waiting in lines to get to the stadium, to the parking lot, to park, to enter the search section gate, the ticket gate, the lift, the concessions... Well, it wore me out!

The Texans played semi-OK, but will have to play up to their true potential to make it this year. I was not looking at a championship caliber team Sunday.

Nothing beats watching a game at home, in comfortable seats, good food, and all at a tenth of the cost!

[sunvalleylaw]

Seahawks convincingly over the Viks! Gotta like it! They were picked to win this game and "should" have, so I am glad they did. Wilson played a very good game, with few to no mistakes. He is coming into his own it seems. I am glad Jayson was here to inform me about him so I could avoid all the "let's play Flynn" QB controversy that was in the Seahawk's local coverage as Wilson developed. Lynch had a solid game too. I wish the D could have shut down the Viks back a little better, but they played well enough to win handily.

[marnold]

What a great day for Fretter football.

Victories by the 'Hawks, Texans, and Bucs.

Don't forget the Kitties! :)

[R_of_G]

I wish the D could have shut down the Viks back a little better, but they played well enough to win handily.

Most defenses have a difficult time handling Peterson. Seattle did what they had to do to keep the rest of Minnesota's offense from outpacing them. A good win for the 'hawks.

[piebaldpython]

Giant played like they were in the middle of Hurricane Sandy.....Eli did not have a good day and Gentle Ben found a way to win another game.

Iggles at the Saints tonite. Pivotal game for the Birds. If they lose to the 'Aints....Vick will get demoted and Lurie will carry Reid and then apply the coup-de-gras' when the season is officially over.

[R_of_G]

Giant played like they were in the middle of Hurricane Sandy.....Eli did not have a good day and Gentle Ben found a way to win another game.

It was the return of mid-season Eli. That guy is always pretty sketchy about now. I've seen it enough now to think he's just sharking everyone. He makes them think the Giants are over-achievers and then come playoff time, everybody remembers "Oh right! They were 6-2 at one point." I won't be fooled this year. If the Giants make the playoffs, I won't pick against them.



Iggles at the Saints tonite. Pivotal game for the Birds. If they lose to the 'Aints....Vick will get demoted and Lurie will carry Reid and then apply the coup-de-gras' when the season is officially over.

The Bucs fan in me wants the Saints to lose. I'd be lying if I said there wasn't also a very large part of me that wants the Eagles to lose so it will be the end of Vick, because I agree with you PBP, this is a must-win for Vick and Reid.

[NWBasser]

Don't forget the Kitties! :)

Oops, yeah congrats on whipping the Jags!

Now PBP needs a win tonight for the fretter sweep.

[piebaldpython]

An Iggles loss to the Saints......the only redeeming thing was Desean Jackson's 77 yard catch and juke TD. The guy is electrifying. We just SUCK......and our coach is the prime SUCKER.

[NWBasser]

An Iggles loss to the Saints......the only redeeming thing was Desean Jackson's 77 yard catch and juke TD. The guy is electrifying. We just SUCK......and our coach is the prime SUCKER.

Stupid Reid ruined the fretter sweep!

[piebaldpython]

You all know how much I want Reid gone......but somebody in work said today that there's talk we could wind up with "Chucky" Gruden. Oh crap.......that's worse than Reid because unlike Reid who usually doesn't say much.....Gruden never shuts up. OMG, what are we gonna do? It's the frying pan or the fire. Oh man, this really sucks. lol

[NWBasser]

You all know how much I want Reid gone......but somebody in work said today that there's talk we could wind up with "Chucky" Gruden. Oh crap.......that's worse than Reid because unlike Reid who usually doesn't say much.....Gruden never shuts up. OMG, what are we gonna do? It's the frying pan or the fire. Oh man, this really sucks. lol

Ouch. You have my condolensces.

There has to be somebody better than those to buffoons around.

[R_of_G]

PBP, we've known each other enough football seasons now for you to know my feelings on Gruden. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the Eagles steer clear of that train wreck. I will tell you this from watching him coach the Bucs, if he is your coach, always expect him to challenge a meaningless play in the first one or two drives and lose.

[piebaldpython]

lol Of course, if I take one for the team (team meaning Fretters, lol) and the Iggles take Chucky.......the rest of the Fretters can then watch ESPN and MNF again without fear of hearing Chucky ramblin' as he would have to give up his ESPN gig. lolol

[NWBasser]

Looking ahead to next weekend, the 'Hawks will play the Jets here at home.

Although our defense has been on a downward spiral the last several weeks, I still expect Lynch/Wilson to pull off a win. Especially with Revis out.

I think that teams have now figured out how to move the ball against our young defense that sometimes over-pursues the play. Quick-dump plays like Stafford was doing works pretty effectively against them.

Speaking of Stafford and the Lions, I forgot to congratulate Marnold on their win over my 'Hawks. So congratulations Marnold!

[R_of_G]

Looking ahead to next weekend, the 'Hawks will play the Jets here at home.

Although our defense has been on a downward spiral the last several weeks, I still expect Lynch/Wilson to pull off a win. Especially with Revis out.

The Jets cannot stop the run. Never could. Look for Lynch to have a big day. The key to beating the Jets is putting them down a few scores early. If they have to rely on Sanchez to throw to win the game, the game is over.

[Tig]

The Sunday night Bears - Texans game should be a good match up.

[piebaldpython]

The Sunday night Bears - Texans game should be a good match up.

Absolutely a good game. Good luck with that game Tig.......Da Bears are playing such good Defense that they are a potential scoring threat every time they take the field. Should be interesting to see how your QB performs in the face of their pressure.

[NWBasser]

The Jets cannot stop the run. Never could. Look for Lynch to have a big day. The key to beating the Jets is putting them down a few scores early. If they have to rely on Sanchez to throw to win the game, the game is over.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. Lynch putting up points and then Sanchez throwing the ball to either Earl Thomas or Richard Sherman trying to catch up. I think ET might have a pretty fun game in store for him.

Wilson will at least keep the offense in the game and may end up doing a whole lot more too.

[NWBasser]

The Sunday night Bears - Texans game should be a good match up.

Definitely looking forward to that one!

[Tig]

Yep.
If they play like they did last week against the Buff's or when they played the Jets, it will be a loss. They have plenty of talent, but don't always fire on all cylinders. I guess you could say that about most teams.

[R_of_G]

Yep.
If they play like they did last week against the Buff's or when they played the Jets, it will be a loss. They have plenty of talent, but don't always fire on all cylinders. I guess you could say that about most teams.

I used to say the Jets played down to the level of their competition. It's a dangerous pattern that results in a lot of close losses to poor teams.

[sunvalleylaw]

Hoping for a good game, and good showing for the Seahawks this weekend. If Tebow had to come in and the pass rush got a good hard sack or two on him, that would be a bonus!

I bet it will get loud at that game! Hoping for some beast mode from Lynch, that will take pressure of Wilson, and open up the offense too!

[Tig]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d9/DrJbird/550116_3986989153363_990798077_n_zps5491b7a3.jpg

:notme

[marnold]

Ya sure do know how to hurt a guy, Tig. ;)

[Tig]

Ya sure do know how to hurt a guy, Tig. ;)

Sorry, Rev. I just couldn't help myself!

<back-peddling time> Think of it as a goal. Yeah, that's it!

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, from reading because I could not get the game on TV, it looks like the Seahawks pulled it off, though it wasn't completely pretty. I hope they invest in the offensive line. I think it would improve some things.

[Tig]

The Saints over the Falcons. :happy

[piebaldpython]

Peyton keeps rolling along.........Iggles crashed and burned to the hated Cowboys here in Philly.......Vick got a concussion and left in the 2nd quarter.......Reid had his usual questionable play-calling and the leather-lunged boo-birds rained a cacophony of BOOS down on the field.....Noles did half-decent for a rookie under pressure...special tems gave up a TD....Maclin did a great Ricky Waters impression by short-arming a ball thrown to him over the middle.

FUGLY!!! Why do we have to wait for the season to end to fire Reid?

[Tig]

The Texans barely managed a win in ugly conditions over the Bears.
8-1 for the season.

[piebaldpython]

A win is a win.......esp against a very good team in their stadium/fans. Your tied for the best record in the league while my IGGLES found new and inventive ways to give up points. lol

[R_of_G]

The Texans barely managed a win in ugly conditions over the Bears.
8-1 for the season.

There was a point in the first half where I was convinced the final score would be 3-0 as the teams continued to trade INTs on nearly every possession for a good stretch there. It may have been ugly, but it was a big win for the Texans to go on the road in terrible weather conditions and beat an extremely aggressive defense like Chicago's.

The NFL blacked me out of the Bucs game so I had to listen on the radio. Not the most impressive offensive performance for the Bucs (at least in contrast with what they've been doing lately) but as PBP wisely said, a win is a win and the Bucs now officially have more of those than they did all of last season. I'm still not ready to use "the P word" lest I set off a wave of Jim Mora imitations, but I can legitimately see this team going 9-7 and that would be a spectacular turnaround from 4-12 last season.

I also missed most of the 4th quarter of the Bucs' game because we had to go to my daughter's championship soccer game. Her team finished the season undefeated (8 wins/2 ties) and won yesterday's championship game on penalty kicks when the score was 1-1 at the end of regulation. Not bad to be on a championship team at age 4 the first season she ever played team sports. I had to wait until I was 12 before one of my teams won a title.

[Tig]

We watched the Iggles. :thwap
Well, at least the backup QB did better than expected for someone who gets no snaps during practice.

[R_of_G]

We watched the Iggles. :thwap
Well, at least the backup QB did better than expected for someone who gets no snaps during practice.

And has virtually no protection afforded him by the offensive line. Whether they go forward with Vick or Foles, that is a major personnel need for the Eagles to address.

[NWBasser]

Well, from reading because I could not get the game on TV, it looks like the Seahawks pulled it off, though it wasn't completely pretty. I hope they invest in the offensive line. I think it would improve some things.

The first half wasn't pretty. The second half was very good though. The Jets pass rush was pretty impressive and they did a great job of stopping Marshawn in the first half. About mid-way through the third quarter it was apparent that they were losing steam and the 'Hawks really got rolling. I was greatly disappointed that Earl Thomas didn't get an interception, although Richard Sherman did. The several sacks of Sanchez were quite nice. The Jets offense didn't score at all.:applause

Wilson seemed out of his element in the first quarter and appeared overwhelmed by the aggressive Jets pass rush. However, rather than spiraling downhill like some QBs do under pressure, he regained his composure and had a great game with some impressive runs too. I think this is the third game in a row where Carroll has used a receiver to make a pass play - with good success. An odd approach, but it's been working very well for them. Now both tate and Rice have TD passes in their resumes.

[sunvalleylaw]

@NWBasser, I saw on the internet that the Seahawks were being aired on CBS, and so was hopeful I could see the game. But apparently that was regional info. Blocked out here. :( I have to find a way without spending too much money to stream Seahawks and Husky games on the internet, or at least audio.

[Tig]

And has virtually no protection afforded him by the offensive line. Whether they go forward with Vick or Foles, that is a major personnel need for the Eagles to address.

We were just saying that yesterday! Vick won't return to his potential without some protection from the line.

[R_of_G]

We were just saying that yesterday! Vick won't return to his potential without some protection from the line.

Yesterday was my first prolonged look at the Eagles this season. Philly is a dangerous place to play QB. They're going to get Vick or Foles killed if they don't fix the protection schemes.

[piebaldpython]

Yesterday was my first prolonged look at the Eagles this season. Philly is a dangerous place to play QB. They're going to get Vick or Foles killed if they don't fix the protection schemes.

6' 9" King Dunlap got hit with 3 hands-to-the-face penalties.........there were some plays where the D went through untouched.....another play where if Demarcus Ware had taken a straight line in, instead of inexplicably taking a loop inside, he would have knocked Noles right out of the stadium.

Scary times for sure. Reid probably won't get axed until the season's over.....mainly out of respect for his long tenure here....and that scares me because then it might be.......CHUCKY TIME.

[R_of_G]

6' 9" King Dunlap got hit with 3 hands-to-the-face penalties.........there were some plays where the D went through untouched.....another play where if Demarcus Ware had taken a straight line in, instead of inexplicably taking a loop inside, he would have knocked Noles right out of the stadium.

Scary times for sure. Reid probably won't get axed until the season's over.....mainly out of respect for his long tenure here....and that scares me because then it might be.......CHUCKY TIME.

On the bright side, if Gruden is your next coach, it won't matter as much if the OL subjects the QBs to injury because Gruden will have about a dozen or so QBs to choose from. He collects them like stamps.

[Tig]

http://onepeggenius.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/jon-gruden-is-chucky-chucky-is-jon-gruden.jpg

[Jipes]

The Saints over the Falcons. :happy
I really enjoy that game it was a thriller specially the last 5mn of the game but luckily Saints got the final victory ! Who Dat :thumbsup

[R_of_G]

I really enjoy that game it was a thriller specially the last 5mn of the game but luckily Saints got the final victory ! Who Dat :thumbsup

As long as Brees is healthy, the Saints always have a chance to win. He never ceases to amaze me.

Also, Atlanta can go 15-1 and demolish everyone along the way and I'll still bet against them in the playoffs until they show me they can win a game that matters.

[Tig]

As long as Brees is healthy, the Saints always have a chance to win. He never ceases to amaze me.

+1 on Brees. I love watching him when everything clicks.


Also, Atlanta can go 15-1 and demolish everyone along the way and I'll still bet against them in the playoffs until they show me they can win a game that matters.

I would almost apply the same thing to Houston. They've experienced only 2 playoff games in their history. The good thing is they have such a well rounded team this year.