Do you Idolize the Idol?

[Myles]

The discussion in this thread (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=2087) revolves around the Swedish music industry, but what I'm interested in discussing is Spudman mentioned that he wasn't terribly impressed with the finalists on the Swedish Idol show.

Now I have never seen Swedish Idol (nor did I ever realize it existed), but I can't say I was ever truly blown away by the concept of American (or Canadian) Idol. The first season enjoyed a plethora of talented artists, but that quality to me has quickly declined with some of the years just leaving me scratching my head when I hear what the winner sounds like. (let alone the runner ups)

1. Have you at any time enjoyed the <insert country here> Idol concept?

2. Do you believe the concept has any longevity?

2a. Are you bored of the Idol shows?

[DaveO]

The only time I will watch American Idol is in the beginning. Everyone whose mother always loved to hear them sing. But can't. After that it is just oversung karoke. YMMV
Dave

[SuperSwede]

There is probably a reason why these "artists" careers doesnt last very long. At least not here in Sweden. They are discovered at the beginning of the series, and becomes over-hyped during a few weeks. I think it takes more than that to create a really interesting artist.

[Myles]

There is probably a reason why these "artists" careers doesnt last very long. At least not here in Sweden. They are discovered at the beginning of the series, and becomes over-hyped during a few weeks. I think it takes more than that to create a really interesting artist.
Kelly Clarkson would disagree. As would the posters I have of her on my walls. (just kidding)

I agree though its definitely the over-hype that kills a lot of these artists, but because we learn who these people are during the show there is just no way to avoid the over-hype. We get to know the artists of these Idol shows as good as or better than our own favourite artists from everything to their favourite place to eat to their family's dog.

Once the door to their lives is shut, we quickly start losing interest and then they have only their musical talent to go on which unfortunately isn't always up to billboard standards.

[SuperSwede]

Kelly Clarkson seems to have enough talent and individuality to stand on her own legs. But really, most doesnt have "it". They may have good looks, and some even have a nice voice. But is that all it takes to be a successful artist, and does the music industry really want artists with long careers anymore? It seems like its more convient for them to sign up these boys and girls, let them release one or two CD´s and then kick them out when they start to make demands. After that, well bring in lucky contestant number 2!

[oldguy]

I've only seen the american version. It's concept seems to be...
the winner must-
Be physically attractive, or beautiful-
Have the ability to sing other people's songs very well, with excellent projection and a very strong voice with wide vocal range-
Come onstage as though you own it, know you are the sh*t when performing. Realize that makeovers, hair salons, clothing stores,etc, can also bolster your career, making you even more attractive.
Show up at tryouts ready to be a rich and famous star, fawned over and spoiled by all who are graced by your presence, and if turned down be prepared to cry, curse, throw a temper tantrum, accompanied by much wailing and gnashing of teeth, vowing to return a megastar just to prove how magnificent you always were, forcing others to eat crow and admit their mistakes.
This is the american version, the only one I've seen.
I'm glad these judges only get to pick their idea of an "idol", and not mine.:eek:
Good lord, I don't think any of my favorite singers could have ever gotten a record contract with this bullsh*t criteria.
Hendrix? SRV? Clapton? EVH? Marino? Johnny Winter? Willie Nelson? Johnny Cash? Neil Young? NO WAY! Pick one thing each can do..sing...impressive good looks..and they fall short of "american idol" status in some other area.
Not even my second favorite. Maybe John Mayer? No, he doesn't sing loud enough, usually. Robert Plant? Long time ago, maybe. I'd hate to see Simon tell him how he sucked on somwhere over the rainbow's chorus, though.
It reminds me of the "packaged factory canned star" on Planker's "food for thought" thread.
Will they ever find talent? Sure, they already have, they feature great singers all the time. Maybe that's all it takes to be an idol. But it takes a lot more to be a legend, or to have longevity.
I've never been impressed by the show, but then I watch it very rarely. I can hear kids with good voices at church, and I can watch spoiled brats at Wal-Mart.

[Myles]

I'm pretty sure they need to rename the show American Publishing Company Idol

[Spudman]

True the music industry (read: Record labels) want a quick large influx of cash. What they are missing is the stable income and interest in back catalog that true artists will bring to the company. Instant greed versus long term greed if you will.

Who is really going to be interested in any Brittany, Ashley, Jessica or Clay Aiken remasters 20 years from now? That's right, nobody. Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Queensryche have all done well with remastered versions of their older material. Why? Because they are true artists and not just product. You get something of value when you buy their music. It touches your soul.

Ottmar Liebert has a pretty good take on this: It's audio from NPR http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4077400

So getting back to the Idol thing...my comments about Swedish Idol extends to American Idol as well. The problems are the same. There are many great artists with something to say and creative ways to say it in both countries, but they are not getting the push from the labels. It's back to the quick fix greed issue with the Idol shows.

There is one label I know of, and more I'm sure, that really gets behind their artists, Inside Out. Why this label? They actually like the music their artists produce. They are fans to begin with and look at the long term picture. This is how early American labels used to be. A&M, Capitol, Chrysalis, Electra, MCA all had bands that meant something to listeners and the folks at the labels. It wasn't so much about "product" at that point. They were just fans promoting the music.

One way I see to get back the interest in real artists is if you and me and everyone we come in contact with is made to understand that we are the ones that can change it. Don't watch the programs, don't listen to the radio. Do buy records directly from the artist or label, do support good music and do tell the radio stations, TV stations, record labels that you aren't interested and will not support crap any more. Turn a child or teen on to Zeppelin, Klattu, The Beatles, Yes or_______________(you fill it in).

Until the industry understands that supporting many good artists leads to stability for their business nothing is going to change. For instance: instead of buying one Idol record and never buying another Idol disc as long as you live, you are more interested in buying the whole 15 disc back catalog of a real artist (and only real artists will have a back catalog). That means Idol=1 sale, artist=15 sales.

The good thing to come out of this is more good music, more artists recorded, more variety and more support for artists. Music could thrive this way and make our short stay on this blue orb that much more enjoyable.

PS. I didn't say I wasn't impressed with the show. I'm not impressed with the contestants compared to what comes from the rest of Sweden.

[Myles]

PS. I didn't say I wasn't impressed with the show. I'm not impressed with the contestants compared to what comes from the rest of Sweden.
My mistake, I've editted the original thread to reflect that.

Now I agree that an established artist is better for a record label than a one-hit wonder because there are upfront marketing costs that go into the artist, but the Idol shows have actually flipped the paradigm on its head.

Now these shows allow record labels to not only market their new stars, but also make money off the marketing of them. This makes it much more valuable than an established artist because while an established artist a limited amount of promotion is required for an "Idol" artist the promotion + the sales (which are practically guaranteed based on the shows following) make money.

Basically, there is no risk for the record label to sign an "Idol" artist that finishes reasonably well. (even ones that didn't finish well - William Hung) In the end though the music from established artists isn't about to be thrown away by record labels because they make money too. So we'll still get great music and the reality tv show junkies will get to keep their one-hit wonders in the making.

So I guess the obvious answer to my own question is that the longevity of this concept will be however long it takes for us to get bored of it. So as a result, I'll add one more question to the original thread...

Are you bored of the Idol shows?

[Spudman]

Are you bored of the Idol shows?

Quite.

Have you heard the latest Ruben Studdard album? I didn't think so. Me either.
There may be some talent on those shows but we don't get to see it in its fullness. Some of those contestants are like Mariah Carey and actually write their own stuff and can play an instrument. However, that is not marketable for the Idol machine.

I'd rather see the folks that have been around singing to nobody in Honky Tonks and getting beat up by hecklers wanting ACDC and Skynyrd. The character is what interests me in an artist. Taylor Hicks may be the exception in the Idol machine. He seems to have been through something that gives him some authenticity. Most contestants are too young and green to have 'been there done that'. Hence I find them too superficial to interest me.

I can appreciate people with the vocal skills many of the contestants possess. But I'd rather have the pyrotechnics and earnestness of someone like Glenn Hughes or Joe Lynn Turner. Idol does not produce anything close to that caliber.

[tot_Ou_tard]

The only time I will watch American Idol is in the beginning. Everyone whose mother always loved to hear them sing. But can't. After that it is just oversung karoke. YMMV
Dave
Agreed. I don't go out of my way to watch it. But if I run into the Idol in the very early days I'll watch. I'm like a deer in the headlights.


Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Queensryche Zeppelin,
Klattu, The Beatles, Yes or_______________(you fill it in).
.
God, Jethro Tull was one of the first bands I got heavily into.

At one time I had every one of their albums.

My wife made me sell them many years ago.

Klattu? That brings back teenage memories!

...Aqualung my friend....

[Katastrophe]

I actually enjoy watching the Idol shows *pauses to don asbestos underwear*. It's fascinating to me how they expect the contestants to show originality and talent by doing covers. Don't get me wrong, it's possible to inject your own personality into a cover song, but wouldn't it be better if the contestants actually wrote something, then worked it out with the house band and performed it?

I harbor no illusions, however, that Simon Cowell gives a damn about music, talent, or the contestants on the show. It's his cash cow, and I grudgingly have to admit that it's pretty brilliant marketing, but can lead to some lousy music, such as Ruben's and Clay's contributions.

[SuperSwede]

I wonder what would happen if they made a <insert country here> Guitar Idol. Now THAT could be a vitamin injection for the music market of today!

[Spudman]

I wonder what would happen if they made a <insert country here> Guitar Idol. Now THAT could be a vitamin injection for the music market of today!

Brilliant idea Swede!

[Myles]

wouldn't it be better if the contestants actually wrote something, then worked it out with the house band and performed it?

It certainly would, but realistically how can you expect someone to write something worthwhile is such a short time frame. Nevermind how difficult forced creativity is. Some artists to take months even years to perfect a song. This would make the show more a gamble than anything else.

[Myles]

Just listening to the radio this morning and they mentioned the Coke will be featuring American Idol on its cans and there is talks of an American Idol theme park. :confused:

They also mentioned that the show is estimated at being worth over 2.5 Billion Dollars. Billion. Yup.

[warren0728]

i'm not much of a tv person....i've never seen american idol (except for the quick commercial clips)...interesting concept though

i do watch "Top Chef" on bravo...as an ex-chef i enjoy that show quite a bit....

ww

[Katastrophe]

I wonder what would happen if they made a <insert country here> Guitar Idol. Now THAT could be a vitamin injection for the music market of today!

I have a feeling that the Swedish contingent would win...

[SuperSwede]

I have a feeling that the Swedish contingent would win...

You mean Yngwie? Nah he doesnt live up to the dress codes of today, so he wouldnt get past the auditions.... :D