Overlapping skills between bass and guitar

[Eric]

Over the past year or so, I've spent more time on bass than guitar. This is somewhat because I want to learn it more thoroughly, but mostly because guitarists are really common, I'm not Eddie Van Halen, and I got sick of playing in my living room. I just needed to buy a bass head and cabinet and away I went.

I've been playing with a band recently who have some pretty challenging bass lines, and I have been woodshedding some of the songs to provide a stronger backbone for them during rehearsal (the bass parts in question were written by the guitarist). What I've found is that when I go back to guitar now, I seem to have better finger dexterity and control.

This seems counter-intuitive to me, to be perfectly honest. From what I understand, proper technique on a bass is to avoid the "rock" position for the left hand (with thumb wrapped around) and always have your thumb on the back of the neck and pointed at the headstock. This is the exact wrong way to play barre chords on the guitar, where I always aim for the C shape with my hand and have my thumb pointing back at my face. Single-note lines on the guitar I play with my thumb wrapped around when I'm lazy, or the classical barre-chordy version if I can't make it work otherwise.

On the bass, things aren't generally played overly fast for the music I play. The fret spacing is gigantic due to the 34" scale. The strings are heavy and you put more muscle into fretting. Most people don't tend to use a pick 100% of the time. The hand and arm positions are a little different. The primary bass I use has a big, chunky neck that my hand has grown accustomed to. So why does that make it easier to play the guitar?

The easy answer is that I'm improving my hand strength and muscle control, and that is making me more sure-handed on the guitar. But the speed thing and overall dexterity I don't understand. I would imagine my hand would need to adapt from bass to guitar, and one of them would feel like home at the expense of comfort on the other instrument.

This is a strange phenomenon I've experienced. Anyone have similar experiences or thoughts on why it works this way?

[marnold]

I'm not sure why it works, but I concur that it does. I figure it must have something to do just getting used to having your hands in sync with each other and your mind learning where the notes are. While the scale length is longer, finally the concept is the same. I also think that playing bass helps with your sense of rhythm a lot, something that just about every guitarist could stand to improve on.

[piebaldpython]

Two things jump immediately to mind:
Fretting hand: by playing bass and then regular guitar, it's akin to taking practice swings with a weighted bat or a bat with a weighted donut slipped over it. Once you use the bass for a while and then switch to guitar, fretting must seem ridiculously easy because of all the new strength you have.

Picking hand: assuming you are using your fingers to pick, you are just building up muscle memory, strength and dexterity in your picking fingers and once you transfer back to regular guitar, you just seem better at finger picking.

Just an educated guess on my part.

[Bookkeeper's Son]

You mentioned "woodshedding". Is the simple answer to your question the fact that you've been practicing more than before, and that that increased practice, even though mostly on bass, is resulting in better playing overall?

[Eric]

I also think that playing bass helps with your sense of rhythm a lot, something that just about every guitarist could stand to improve on.
That's true. Oddly enough, I feel like the people I've played with recently who could use the most rhythm improvement have been the drummers. I know it's not the common experience, but most guitarists I've played with in semi-serious settings have been pretty good rhythmically.

Tempo-wise, it's a different story (i.e. pretty undisciplined at not dragging or rushing), but as far as playing with the beat, I generally have positive things to say about the guitarists I've played with. Then again, I don't tend to play with the self-indulgent shredders, so maybe there's a different mindset with the guitar-hero crowd.

[cebreez]

I also think that playing bass helps with your sense of rhythm a lot, something that just about every guitarist could stand to improve on.

I believe all of these are true but particularly this one. I was the opposite. A career bassist that wanted to turn guitar player because I wasn't busy enough as a bassist and I got bored. BUT I found it made some aspects of playing lead guitar easier because I had a solid sense of timing. My trouble inherently was knowing when to get off the bass line.

I know when I'm having trouble with my guitar picking I switch back over to the bass and it helps bring everything back together.

[NWBasser]

Being primarily a bass player, I notice that I use similar rhythm patterns when I play guitar. I also tend to play lead riffs as I would from a melodic bass line.

What's really fun for me when I play guitar are the "colors" that I can get from different chord forms. That's something that doesn't translate to bass.

Physically, I have no problems switching between guitar and bass or even different basses like 4 to 5 strings. I guess that since I've played both instruments for so long that I don't really notice the physical requirements of each.

[Eric]

Being primarily a bass player, I notice that I use similar rhythm patterns when I play guitar. I also tend to play lead riffs as I would from a melodic bass line.
Interesting. So you don't really switch mentality at all? I find that when I'm on guitar, I take it on myself to lead the song and kind of direct traffic and keep the song together. On bass, I look at it as I'm there to help the drums and change dynamics or feel by playing/not playing and note spacing/rhythm. Occasionally there are cool riffs involved, but those are highly song-dependent. They might seem related, but I feel like I'm in very different mental spaces and roles when playing the two instruments.



Physically, I have no problems switching between guitar and bass or even different basses like 4 to 5 strings. I guess that since I've played both instruments for so long that I don't really notice the physical requirements of each.
Yeah I don't really either, but I expected there to be a big difference. Perhaps that's the biggest surprise for me. Fingers are fingers, hands are hands; coordination on one instrument translates to coordination on the other.

[cebreez]

On bass, I look at it as I'm there to help the drums and change dynamics or feel by playing/not playing and note spacing/rhythm.

Lucky you. When I was playing bass our guitar player wasn't very good, well he could have been really good but his timing was awful so I had to keep the timing and the melody and keep his solos corralled.


Physically, I have no problems switching between guitar and bass or even different basses like 4 to 5 strings. I guess that since I've played both instruments for so long that I don't really notice the physical requirements of each.

I have no problems switching from guitar to bass and back. I have more trouble switching between my two main basses. The Peavey T-40 has a wider fretboard than the Fender Jazz and it does throw me off a little till I get a few bars in. (musical bars not drinking bars... though):socool

[NWBasser]

Interesting. So you don't really switch mentality at all?

Yes, and no. When I play covers on guitar, I certainly do play much differently than I would on bass. However, when I'm just messing around on guitar, I do tend to let a lot of my "bass thinking" creep in. Not always though. Consider that I also mostly play guitar by myself and don't have to consider other instruments. It would be very interesting if I actually got to play guitar with an actual bass player sometime.

FWIW, I have jammed on guitar with another guitar player on bass, but since they took a "guitar approach" to the bass, I had to fill the rythmic role on guitar.

[Eric]

FWIW, I have jammed on guitar with another guitar player on bass, but since they took a "guitar approach" to the bass, I had to fill the rythmic role on guitar.
What would that be? Wank-ville?

[marnold]

What would that be? Wank-ville?

Listen to Eddie Van Halen's bass playing on Sammy Hagar's solo album. I usually hear it in that they can't consistently play 1/4 or 1/8 notes. Everybody thinks it's easy or beneath them. That separates real bass players from people who are holding a bass and playing.

[Eric]

Listen to Eddie Van Halen's bass playing on Sammy Hagar's solo album. I usually hear it in that they can't consistently play 1/4 or 1/8 notes. Everybody thinks it's easy or beneath them. That separates real bass players from people who are holding a bass and playing.
I just listened to Give to Live; that bass playing is kind of annoying.

I have been trying to identify this dynamic for a long time because so many bassists despise converted guitarists playing bass. I have been very self-conscious about my bass playing as a result, but nobody could ever really articulate what it is that guitarists-on-bass do.

I've seen it a couple of times where the bassist will start off solid and then meander off into 'cooler' parts, but those times were heavily associated with the bassist being a genuinely bad musician as well, so it was hard to isolate it as a guitarist thing.

Anyway, this whole thing leads me to believe that I've never really played a guitar like a guitar. I usually just bang out power chords while I stare at the drummer and the bassist adds themselves in on top of it.

[Eric]

BTW, the Sammy Hagar reference made me realize how he looks kind of similar to Guy Fieri from the Food Network. Apparently I'm not the only one.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2011/12/sammy-friday1.jpg

http://www.redrocker.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery_large/images/blog/gi1207_098.jpg

[NWBasser]

Listen to Eddie Van Halen's bass playing on Sammy Hagar's solo album. I usually hear it in that they can't consistently play 1/4 or 1/8 notes. Everybody thinks it's easy or beneath them. That separates real bass players from people who are holding a bass and playing.

Exactly!