I hate competition in the world of guitarists.

[firebirdfreak]

Aghhh this bothers me sooo bad. There are so many guitarists who are sooooo competitive. Chill out guys. It is not a competition it is a voicing of your emotions. I often envy how bassists and drummers get along so well. But seriously the guitarists today are just sooo annoying and so disrespectful to one another. But lots of guitarists are very kind and dont live in competition with one another. I guess it all depends on why they start playing the guitar. It is just getting beyond a jok.

[Spudman]

It's human nature to be competitive. The folks that evolve musically and in playing the guitar usually become less competitive over time.

[sunvalleylaw]

*Side journey in aid of making a point* My daughter has enjoyed watching The Voice this year, a singing competition on tv. It was fun and entertaining at first, but as they started dismissing candidates more regularly and really narrowing the field, it became a lot less enjoyable due to that competition aspect. The contestants started to seem like "Tributes" from the Hunger Games in a way. Also, I am not sure the competitive aspects was always good for the singers in terms of improving their craft. Some of them seemed to start to try to be like some of the others that were perceived to be "good" rather than develop their own strengths.

*back to on point* I can only imagine a guitar competition would yield similar results if the public was willing to listen to enough guitar to have one. I think Spud makes a good point about those that survive and thrive while being themselves.

[R_of_G]

Compete with yourself to accomplish individual musical goals. Competing with others is pointless, unless you're literally competing with someone for a gig.



*back to on point* I can only imagine a guitar competition would yield similar results if the public was willing to listen to enough guitar to have one. I think Spud makes a good point about those that survive and thrive while being themselves.

I think such a competition aimed at the general public would be a fine example of how meaningless most of these "competitions" really are, or "best guitarist" lists or pretty much anything that tries to quantify the subjective.

We're all players here, and we have rather varied musical tastes among us. I assure you, there's no way we could come to a definitive objective answer to "Best" guitarist or any other instrumentalist for that matter. Now leave it up to the general public that we do all pretty much agree doesn't know squat about music? Fun!

What I'm saying (probably too obnoxiously) is that Spud's point about evolving past our competitive nature is applicable not just to musicians but to listeners of music as well. Too much of the way music (or all art really) is discussed involves trying making objective claims about things that are necessarily subjective.

[Tig]

I'm still learning how to sound like me! (the sounds in my head) That's plenty of challenge without adding a competitive element.

[marnold]

Compete with yourself to accomplish individual musical goals. Competing with others is pointless, unless you're literally competing with someone for a gig.

Competition does not have to be a bad thing. You can compete without having to be an a-hole. Iron sharpens iron, after all. Often seeing a very talented guitarist or bassist play spurs me on to want to be better myself. The goal is not so that one day I can say, "[Fill in the guitarist's name here] sucks! Look how much better I am!" Rather it is that other person driving/encouraging/motivating me to greater heights.

I think of a football team. The rookies' youthful enthusiasm can rub off on the grizzled veterans and remind them of why they got into this in the first place. The veterans' leadership and experience can help focus the rookies' energy. To use a personal example, hearing a well-written and well-delivered sermon inspires me to give my best when I'm writing one. If one of my brother pastors is becoming lazy or giving less than his all, I can give him a gentle (or not-so-gentle) nudge to get back to work.

The problem is with the "second place is the first loser" mentality in our society. We wear shirts with slogans like that and then have the gall to wonder why no one seems to be able to act like a civilized human being.

[Spudman]

It's pretty strong in our American culture to compete and it's continually being nurtured by game companies, sports, and largely the media. Listen carefully to the words they use. Many descriptions of events, interactions and communications between people are often described in competitive terms even if there is no competition. It drives me batty so I try hard to ignore most mainstream media crap.

When younger I sure did want to be better, and often tried to 'out do' someone I was making music with...Then I woke up. Music between musicians is like sex, it's an experience to be shared.

[R_of_G]

Competition does not have to be a bad thing. You can compete without having to be an a-hole. Iron sharpens iron, after all. Often seeing a very talented guitarist or bassist play spurs me on to want to be better myself. The goal is not so that one day I can say, "[Fill in the guitarist's name here] sucks! Look how much better I am!" Rather it is that other person driving/encouraging/motivating me to greater heights.

No doubt that's healthy, but is it competition, particularly when the other player isn't even aware of the effect they've had on you?

I'd contend that's inspiration and then using that inspiration to challenge yourself.


It's pretty strong in our American culture to compete and it's continually being nurtured by game companies, sports, and largely the media. Listen carefully to the words they use. Many descriptions of events, interactions and communications between people are often described in competitive terms even if there is no competition.

The language of our culture is full of misused superlatives and military metaphors.

[sunvalleylaw]

One of the artists I admire, Eddie Vedder, disliked art being honored even by awards, much less a competition over it. His reaction at the Grammys was pretty infamous at the time. And I get what he is saying.

That is not to say that all music competitions are "bad". But as we watch the last few weeks of "The Voice", I am a bit turned off by the increased aggro nature of some of the fans of the various competitors. At a certain point, it would be nice to say, hey look at all these great singers you didn't know about before. You can tell the remaining artists feel that way too, as they mourn when another one of them is sent home. But the show has to crown a "winner".




The problem is with the "second place is the first loser" mentality in our society. We wear shirts with slogans like that and then have the gall to wonder why no one seems to be able to act like a civilized human being.

This pretty much sums up what I don't like about some of The Voice fans and how things are turning out as it heats up at the end. Also a Rah, Rah, root for the team sort of feel as fans of different music styles express their "feelings on the matter". For instance, there is quite a bit of pro-country/anti-country discussion online regarding the show.

I like better contests such as a bluegrass picking contest, or maybe a similar contest in the context of metal/shred, or some other like guitar skill. Then it is more a skill thing than a popularity contest between artists from different types of music. Such competition is not necessarily "bad", and at least has some parameters to go by.

But in the end, the artistry should be valued for the artistry itself. Or so I believe.

[Eric]

It's human nature to be competitive.
This was my first thought when I saw the title of this thread.

I think the reason why guitarists tend to be more competitive than other instrumentalists is because a guitarist (along with a singer) is a focal point of a lot of popular music (e.g. rock), so they have the limelight to compete for. And the limelight/celebrity is a much more powerful motivator than the love of music, at least for less experienced players -- that's kind of what Spudman touched on when he said that people get less competitive over time.

For the other instruments, you could be the world's greatest bassist or drummer and you're still basically relegated to cult status. Smart players on those instruments realize it's a losing battle to try to be noticed and come to terms with the idea of playing for the music itself.

The competitiveness of the guitar world wears on me too, but it only tends to be that way because of the role they play in the band. It's the same way that violinists and trumpet players are a bit more tightly-wound than tuba players.

I went to a bass gathering a couple of weeks ago thinking I would hear a bunch of really cool grooves being played all day. Do you know what I heard? Bassists shredding, presumably to try to out-do each other. So the competitiveness doesn't go away just because you're a bassist. It just gets expressed in different ways, and more importantly, I think the bass and drums attract a different type of personality.

Sorry for the disjointed thoughts. But the point is that I notice it too and it's a difficult part of the guitar.

[Tig]

:)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7422/9025674601_9954539496.jpg

[Eric]

:)
That's not coming through for me. Care to post using a different link?

[marnold]

No doubt that's healthy, but is it competition, particularly when the other player isn't even aware of the effect they've had on you?

I'd contend that's inspiration and then using that inspiration to challenge yourself.

Read it in the context of the rest of what I wrote. "Seeing him" may be someone like George Lynch (whom I have met, although calling him a "friend" would be beyond a stretch) or people I do know personally who are quite good at what they do.

Having said that, being a competitive a-hole isn't limited to lead guitarists by any stretch of the imagination. Anybody who is good at what they do (or aspires to be good, or thinks that they are good) can fall prey to that. It doesn't really matter if it is something important (e.g. being the best brain surgeon) or something worthless (e.g. someone who can drink the most shots without barfing/passing out/dying).

[R_of_G]

Read it in the context of the rest of what I wrote. "Seeing him" may be someone like George Lynch (whom I have met, although calling him a "friend" would be beyond a stretch) or people I do know personally who are quite good at what they do.

I get that part, it's the part where it's competitive that I'm still missing. Regardless, I get your point whether or not we agree on what word to call it, I agree that what you're saying is a positive thing.

[Tig]

That's not coming through for me. Care to post using a different link?

I can't find the original and can't upload a local copy from work, so I'll dig up some other funnies...

http://www.zotzinguitarlessons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/13.png
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwrHIDuTByAKPddbrlLQIkFhCDrjcBX 78wr6QZbSz--DDTrDbL
http://www.musiccrowns.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Slappin-da-Bass.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OAb3NUv26CQ/UBYSOwoyUWI/AAAAAAAAGNQ/SCi7FfocQL8/s1600/Batmans+Bass.jpg

[Eric]

I can't find the original and can't upload a local copy from work, so I'll dig up some other funnies...
I figured you were posting this one:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hCTXlHAOD_0/T2CjBkxjVhI/AAAAAAAAAwA/DJLlDt9uevw/s800/worlds_greatest.jpg

[Tig]

I figured you were posting this one:

:thumbsup

OK, I have it...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7422/9025674601_9954539496.jpg

[Eric]

:thumbsup

OK, I have it...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7422/9025674601_9954539496.jpg
Ah yes, I've seen that one before too. Nice.

[R_of_G]

Hey at least an electric bass shares its shape with a guitar.
Bass players didn't have to go invent one of these just to be able to be out on the front line with a band posing it up for the ladies...

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/keytar.jpg