FINALLY, a little space!

[Brian Krashpad]

For a change, a gig-related post not about Crash Pad, but about my "other" gig.

Excited about tonight! We're usually crammed into a space about a third this size, way off to the left of this shot, beyond the lecturn. Looking forward to the occasional prowl instead of being stock still.

Plus, although my guitar is always in the PA as well, it'll be fun to have a bigger backline sound. Tonight I'll be going through my usual 1x10 Super Champ XD rig (over on the left), mic'd, with the slightly bigger blonde 1x12 (the Mosvalve on our right) slaved to it, to give a bigger aural field. Not a stereo rig, but it will be able to sound big without being too high volume. We'll be shooting for around 90 dB I think.


https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/q81/s720x720/1377403_10151883373958879_88513728_n.jpg

[Eric]

Pretty cool, Crash. How have your projects been going? Pretty stable on the church front? I recently moved to a new church and am back on guitar after playing bass pretty regularly for a year or two, but the team at said new church is kind of reinventing themselves, so it's a time of transition.

How are the acoustics in there with all of those brick walls?

[Brian Krashpad]

Pretty cool, Crash. How have your projects been going? Pretty stable on the church front? I recently moved to a new church and am back on guitar after playing bass pretty regularly for a year or two, but the team at said new church is kind of reinventing themselves, so it's a time of transition.

How are the acoustics in there with all of those brick walls?

Church is going OK, unfortunately going through a huge transition ourselves, since both our senior pastor and associate pastor got calls to other churches. But it's also an opportunity to expand the music ministry, to include a full and proper all-contemporary service every Sunday. Hopefully these Saturday night concert/services can be a stepping stone to that goal. As it is, we've moved up front (just not spread out) for our 11 o'clock "blended" services, out of the choir loft, so that's a start.

The acoustics are actually surprisingly good. The only major brick wall is the one you see behind us, and the amps and PA are mostly pointed away from it. The church is an early 60's A-frame design, so what isn't absorbed by the people in the pews gets a soft bounce back down off the angled ceiling.

Here's where we're usually stuck, off to the side (drums are behind the bassist and me):

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Here's some more pics from Saturday night. This is the bassist's rig, the Washburn bass and Turser Stingray copy are his (I sold him the Turser), and the stack is our Music Director's (keys/lead vocals/occasional guitar), who is also the Crash Pad bassist, Joel. The head is a Crate B150, the little brother of my bass head (BX-200), that I picked up on craigslist locally and sold to Joel so he would have another option besides always borrowing mine. Cabs are a Hartke 2x10 with aluminum drivers and a trad paper-coned Fender 1x15:

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q77/s720x720/1235362_10151885495073879_2142323779_n.jpg

Drums in the center, the Kustom 2x12 on the left is Joel's for the song he switched to electric guitar on. The blonde Mosvalve 1x12 on the stand on the right is the second half of my amp rig, slaved to my li'l Fender SC XD 15W 1x10 on the other side of the stage. That system worked really well for "big" sound without too much volume:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q75/s720x720/539147_10151885495198879_1497317833_n.jpg

Joel's guitars, a Gretsch acoustic (no logo due to a headstock repair) and a MIM Fender Standard Tele, with my Super Champ XD behind it:


https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/q75/s720x720/578038_10151885495308879_1928414727_n.jpg

And last, my guitars for the evening. I played only the Les Paul Classic in the front, the Les Paul Special and DeArmond Jet Star were reserves:

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/q81/s720x720/994910_10151885495413879_75469136_n.jpg

The little black box sitting on top of the stand near the LP Classic is my wireless unit that one of the band members bought and donated to the church. I don't usually bother with it, since there's nowhere to move in our usual setup. Our first two songs were real rockers that I just sort of solo throughout, so during the second one I actually ran down the aisle and played from the back of the church.

Excommunication pending. :AOK

[Eric]

Church is going OK, unfortunately going through a huge transition ourselves, since both our senior pastor and associate pastor got calls to other churches. But it's also an opportunity to expand the music ministry, to include a full and proper all-contemporary service every Sunday. Hopefully these Saturday night concert/services can be a stepping stone to that goal. As it is, we've moved up front (just not spread out) for our 11 o'clock "blended" services, out of the choir loft, so that's a start.
I wondered about that, since I thought you were usually in the back and upstairs. That's progress.


Here's some more pics from Saturday night. This is the bassist's rig, the Washburn bass and Turser Stingray copy are his (I sold him the Turser), and the stack is our Music Director's (keys/lead vocals/occasional guitar), who is also the Crash Pad bassist, Joel.
Wasn't your leader/singer the younger guy with short blonde hair? The guy in your non-church church band (First Things First)? And did you have a different music director/pastor -- the Eddie Van Halen of the pipe organ who disliked you? Are they still there or is all of that different?


Excommunication pending. :AOK
Hahaha. Take what you can get for playing in church, I guess. I have started to learn the drums to provide another option personnel-wise at church, but I hope we can find actual drummers to help. I think we have the opposite issue from you: support and encouragement to do what we want (within reason), but no personnel to actually play. Also pretty disorganized at present, but that's a different issue.

Thanks for the update.

[Brian Krashpad]

Wasn't your leader/singer the younger guy with short blonde hair? The guy in your non-church church band (First Things First)? And did you have a different music director/pastor -- the Eddie Van Halen of the pipe organ who disliked you? Are they still there or is all of that different?

Actually, the church band is First Things First. But yes, you're right, our band director used to be this 18-year-old kid, Garrett. He got married and is in college, so Joel (my Crash Pad bassist; I used to also play bass in Joel's non-church band Pedagogy, but that fizzled when he joined a working cover band) came back as our band director. He had previously been our band director (I misspoke calling him Music Director) but left when his mom, who worked at our preschool, left after a row with some jackass on the Board of Trustees.

The pipe organ MusDir is still here. I think we're slowly winning him over. I'm not sure if he came to the Saturday night thing, but the next morning after our regular service he actually came up and complimented us generally on the mix and me personally on a solo on a song we did during communion. Which was kinda funny, because during that solo, onstage (I use the SC XD as my stage monitor in our usual setup, lined out to PA) when I went to my lead channel it was way louder than I wanted/expected, and I had to back off it quickly. I checked with Joel afterward, though, and he said the FOH mix for it was fine.

Always something. Mrs K is perpetually like "Why do you even bother?" But of course, if everyone thought that way, nothing would ever change.



Hahaha. Take what you can get for playing in church, I guess. I have started to learn the drums to provide another option personnel-wise at church, but I hope we can find actual drummers to help. I think we have the opposite issue from you: support and encouragement to do what we want (within reason), but no personnel to actually play. Also pretty disorganized at present, but that's a different issue.

Thanks for the update.

You're welcome. I would love to learn drums, but I'm pretty bad at them. Plus right now we actually have 2 drummers and two bassists in regular rotation, but I'm the only one very proficient in doing lead guitar work. Joel is a good rhythm player, and our bassists can both manage very simple rhythm guitar parts, but for leady bits and mando, which I often play on one song or so per service, I'm it. Which is kinda weird, since guitarists are usually a dime a dozen.

Good luck finding musos and learning drums!

[Eric]

Which is kinda weird, since guitarists are usually a dime a dozen.

Good luck finding musos and learning drums!
Yeah, I know -- isn't it weird when there's a lack of guitarists? I generally assume every other person I meet plays guitar, but I guess knowing a G chord and being willing to actually learn stuff and put in time are two different things.

[Duffy]

Why is it that so many churches make you "hide" the drums somewhere either maximally minimized or in the form of, to the average church goer, unrecognizable electronic so-called drums? They hide the and in the loft, etc. I have even heard it said, personally, that drums don't belong in church because of them rocking out the sexually "suggestive gyrations" that are inappropriate for church services.

This whole line of thought confounds me. I would bet that if you were to do a search on "drums" or something to that effect, in one of those highly developed bible software programs, that the computer would come up with more than a few "hits" on the word "drum" or its equivalent. I don't think drums are anything new in bible history, or in the history of biblical times. So there shouldn't be a hang up there, IMO. I see no need to melt the drums down like the Golden Calf.

When I had the pleasure of playing conga drums at a church I attended, the drums were prominently up front, equal to the other instruments, and there was no negative connotation attached to them. The Pastor wanted to see more drumming and a band that generated excitement. I like that guy. He is a good man. But I have seen more than my share of "shepherds" that must have skipped the Shepherding Class at the seminary; I'm sorry to say.

It really upsets me when petty personality and ego trips cause major divisions in churches. To me that is not what it is all about. It's too bad really.

Aside from all of this, I'm happy for you that your church has made some progress. You are such a remarkable musician that you have a super great deal to offer and from the drift I get, or the vibe I seem to feel, you and your crew just don't get the respect you should be getting, and they don't seem to involve you in a high degree of decision making, even when it affects your operation and function.

Then again, humility is a virtue that all believers should spend time on refining and embracing in every aspect of their daily lives. In the end maybe all of the seemingly minimizing things actually serve to make you humble, keeping you closer to the path you want to be on to begin with.

[marnold]

I think a reminder of what worship is supposed to be is in order. The focus should always be on Christ. There is a reason why the altar, pulpit, lectern, and font have such a prominent position. They are there to remind of what Christ has done for us. Quite frankly, with all the equipment set up smack in the middle of church, I don't know how you have anything resembling a worship service. The pastor cannot get to the altar. There would be difficulty getting to the lectern. You certainly could not celebrate Holy Communion. And why this sacrifice? All in the name of seeing and hearing the band. Suddenly it's less about Christ and more about me.

Humility cuts both ways. Just because we can do something doesn't inherently mean we should. If we do introduce something new, the best course of action would be to talk about it ahead of time with the congregation. Study what the Bible says about worship. Show what the purpose of worship is supposed to be. THAT would be being a Shepherd. Otherwise something new and unusual is introduced with little discussion and then people are shocked that there's push back. What did you expect?

I will freely admit that for being a metalhead, I am thoroughly a traditionalist when it comes to worship. My complaint with "contemporary" worship is not the guitars or drums or whatever. It's the lyrical content. So much of it says so very little. It is the theological equivalent of bubblegum pop. When it does say something, it is theologically questionable. I have heard some modern pieces that have excellent content, so I know it is not impossible. But you have to pan through an awful lot of silt to get to a few bits of gold.

[Eric]

For reference, I believe this setup was for a special Saturday evening music service, not the usual Sunday-morning service.

[Brian Krashpad]

Why is it that so many churches make you "hide" the drums somewhere either maximally minimized or in the form of, to the average church goer, unrecognizable electronic so-called drums? They hide the and in the loft, etc. I have even heard it said, personally, that drums don't belong in church because of them rocking out the sexually "suggestive gyrations" that are inappropriate for church services.

This whole line of thought confounds me. I would bet that if you were to do a search on "drums" or something to that effect, in one of those highly developed bible software programs, that the computer would come up with more than a few "hits" on the word "drum" or its equivalent. I don't think drums are anything new in bible history, or in the history of biblical times. So there shouldn't be a hang up there, IMO. I see no need to melt the drums down like the Golden Calf.

When I had the pleasure of playing conga drums at a church I attended, the drums were prominently up front, equal to the other instruments, and there was no negative connotation attached to them. The Pastor wanted to see more drumming and a band that generated excitement. I like that guy. He is a good man. But I have seen more than my share of "shepherds" that must have skipped the Shepherding Class at the seminary; I'm sorry to say.

It really upsets me when petty personality and ego trips cause major divisions in churches. To me that is not what it is all about. It's too bad really.

Aside from all of this, I'm happy for you that your church has made some progress. You are such a remarkable musician that you have a super great deal to offer and from the drift I get, or the vibe I seem to feel, you and your crew just don't get the respect you should be getting, and they don't seem to involve you in a high degree of decision making, even when it affects your operation and function.

Then again, humility is a virtue that all believers should spend time on refining and embracing in every aspect of their daily lives. In the end maybe all of the seemingly minimizing things actually serve to make you humble, keeping you closer to the path you want to be on to begin with.

Well, as far as drums go, electronic one are simply easier to deal with. Way easier to be able to have them at the right volume, plus way easier to move them, break them down, and set them up.

As far as being stuck in the choir loft, there just aren't any good options in our building. We're either stuck there or stuck off in a very crowded space up front.

[Brian Krashpad]

I think a reminder of what worship is supposed to be is in order. The focus should always be on Christ. There is a reason why the altar, pulpit, lectern, and font have such a prominent position. They are there to remind of what Christ has done for us. Quite frankly, with all the equipment set up smack in the middle of church, I don't know how you have anything resembling a worship service. The pastor cannot get to the altar. There would be difficulty getting to the lectern. You certainly could not celebrate Holy Communion. And why this sacrifice? All in the name of seeing and hearing the band. Suddenly it's less about Christ and more about me.

Humility cuts both ways. Just because we can do something doesn't inherently mean we should. If we do introduce something new, the best course of action would be to talk about it ahead of time with the congregation. Study what the Bible says about worship. Show what the purpose of worship is supposed to be. THAT would be being a Shepherd. Otherwise something new and unusual is introduced with little discussion and then people are shocked that there's push back. What did you expect?

I will freely admit that for being a metalhead, I am thoroughly a traditionalist when it comes to worship. My complaint with "contemporary" worship is not the guitars or drums or whatever. It's the lyrical content. So much of it says so very little. It is the theological equivalent of bubblegum pop. When it does say something, it is theologically questionable. I have heard some modern pieces that have excellent content, so I know it is not impossible. But you have to pan through an awful lot of silt to get to a few bits of gold.

And.... here's your answer:


For reference, I believe this setup was for a special Saturday evening music service, not the usual Sunday-morning service.

Frankly, I have a major problem with this statement:

"All in the name of seeing and hearing the band. Suddenly it's less about Christ and more about me."

This is a false dichotomy.

If we are seeing and hearing the band, then it's not about Christ. Or at a minimum, less about Christ.

Sorry, but I call bs.

Barring the Second Coming occurring during a service, Christ's presence is only going to be felt by and through those leading worship and those participating in it. I find the above re-quoted statement somewhat ironic given that it follows your statement about the necessary prominence of the lecturn and pulpit, where a pastor or other speaker stands, and is seen by all.

The necessary extension of the logic behind the statement I re-quoted above in red, in order to challenge it, yields the following conclusion regarding the prominence of the lecturn and pulpit:

""All in the name of seeing and hearing the pastor. Suddenly it's less about Christ and more about the pastor."

Corrected for truth?

Of course not.

It's a ridiculous conclusion. It assumes that the only or primary reason that a pastor would be placed in a prominent spot is to make the service "about" him or her. We give our pastors more credit than that, don't we? Or at least we should.

Why is not the same credit given to musicians leading a music-oriented service?

Even if the reason given for the prominence of the lecturn/pulpit is traditionalism, and that it works, I posit that such response is at best adequate by halves. The traditionalism half of that response devolves to "we've always done it this way," which in itself is no reason at all, and which, when the way we've always done it isn't working, is in fact worse than no reason, it's actively counterproductive.

But even assuming arguendo that traditionalism ("we've always done it this way") were a good reason for a course of action, a point I'm not at all willing to concede, I'd still challenge it as a reason. Because as a matter of historical fact, have we always done it this way?

I would posit that in the early Church we very clearly did not have lecturns and pulpits, nor arguably for that matter what we would recognize today as clergy.

But I'm not arguing to get rid of lecturns or pulpits or clergy.

What I am arguing for is to be open to other modes of worship. The Hebrews worshipped with music and DANCING, for heaven's sake. Pun intended. And presumably God was well pleased. But today I'm hearing that if we do so much as place the musicians where they can actively interact with the rest of the congregation, we're not doing worship how it's "supposed" (your lead sentence) to be. Such a setup could not possibly yield "anything resembling a worship service." That's simply not true.

Study what the Bible says about worship. Show what the purpose of worship is supposed to be.

Christ said "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." Nothing about lecturns or pulpits. Or musicians or drums. Or pastors.

Another canard I often hear, is that musicians, playing music in a style that actually has some relevance to church-goers, are instead focusing on "entertaining" instead of worship. Again, this is a false dichotomy, and for that matter it fails to follow Luther's directive to put the best construction on everything. It presumes that getting a congregation viscerally, emotionally involved and invested in participating in worship is somehow antithetical to what "worship is supposed to be."

I would argue that that's exactly what worship is supposed to be.

[piebaldpython]

Wow.......OK, this is an interesting repartee' here. For point of reference, I am a card-carrying Roman Catholic, and leaving what happens on the altar out of this discussion altogether due to our belief that the bread/wine becomes the body/blood of Christ........and so that would be the Primary focus.

One could argue, that the role of music, in the context of a religious service, CAN BE almost as important as what happens on the pulpit and lectern IN TERMS OF INSPIRING the congregation to spiritual understanding and doing "good deeds".

The predominately black Pentecostal Jewel Dominion churches (there's a bunch in FLA, OHIO and MICHIGAN) do a standout job of musicianship and with appropriate lyrics, they get their point across.

Likewise, our music is so dreadful, that the only inspiration is to PRAY that the service ends quickly. I will be quick to point out that when we vacation in Escondido CA every year for 3 weeks, the music at that church is much more bouncy and joyful......

To me, it's whatever packs the pews and inspires the masses is good for a church. Everyone has different abilities and stations in life that may limit their degree of participation. Example....with 34 yrs of marriage under my belt, I'm not going to be a Catholic priest anytime soon, no matter how gifted I could be with a sermon.

Just a side note......the new Pope has made statements recently about a number of issues......and taken a position that is certainly different from his predecessors......a refreshing change as it were. So, it's funny to think that RC Church is actually now to the LEFT of the GOP. Who'd a thunk it.

[Tig]

I kinda' gave up n the organized religion stuff a while back. In many cases, some like showing the badge of their religion and can talk the talk, but I prefer to walk the walk. Regardless of how we worship and believe, it all boils down to making the world around us better by our unselfish actions that spread love and warmth. How we do it is a personal choice, and I respect that as long as it works to elevate our societies.

What bothers me is that some (certainly not all!) flaunt their Christianity while basically acting with hate and fear towards others. They worship power and wealth. We all know some out there have really lost the message. What a sad thing it is to distort such a beautiful religion.

Please do not take this as an accusation or judgement against the above posts in any way. I'm just airing some existing observations and feelings.

[Spudman]

and....back to playing music in 1, 2,......3:) or 4 if you're a drummer and can count that high (rim shot)

[Monkus]

Interesting discourse ... badum ching ...