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tot_Ou_tard
January 20th, 2007, 10:02 PM
I've only read the first two pages, but this thread on modeling from the Gear Page is quite a good read:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=204896

Robert
January 20th, 2007, 10:16 PM
Interesting to hear from guys who go "all the way" with the modeling stuff. I am not there at this point - my tube amp is just too much fun. But then again, if I tried the Pod XTL through an Atomic amp, maybe I'd change my mind, I don't know.

I just like pedals through a tube amp. Yes, it means a bit of tap dancing but I can get some unique and wicked, to me, sounds out of such a combination.

However, for a guy who gigs a lot with different kind of bands and different musical styles, I can see this modeling scenario being the ideal situation.

Spudman
January 20th, 2007, 10:51 PM
On that same topic (notice that I didn't switch to cooking)...

Here is another very good article on Modeling. The main point is that in order to gain the most satisfaction from a modeling processor you have to have a good way to amplify it.
http://www.thestompbox.net/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleID=10

SuperSwede
January 21st, 2007, 03:13 AM
Interesting, thanks for the links.
I have found that for me, going through the mixer straight to the PA creates the best modeling amplification for me.

tot_Ou_tard
January 21st, 2007, 08:29 AM
Interesting, thanks for the links.
I have found that for me, going through the mixer straight to the PA creates the best modeling amplification for me.

SS, do you amplify your Tonelab at home, or do you only use headphones?


On that same topic (notice that I didn't switch to cooking)...

Here is another very good article on Modeling. The main point is that in order to gain the most satisfaction from a modeling processor you have to have a good way to amplify it.
http://www.thestompbox.net/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleID=10

It's surprising that the author thinks that using a full frequency speaker with something like a Tonelab, or a POD is such a revalation. I know nothing and the first time I heard that guitar speakers where different from PA speakers & realized that I listen to my Tonelab via headphones it seemed clear that if I were to amplify my Tonelab I should look into Keyboard or PA speakers or monitors.

This does bring up an interesting question as regards to modelling combos however. For example, is the output to the speakers on the VOX AD series exactly the same as the amp choice on the line/amp switch on the Tonelab, or is it voiced specifically to go directly to a guitar speaker (rather than into
the preamp of an amp)?

The one new thing that the Tonelab LE offers is more output voicings.

------- WARNING Cooking discussion follows -------------------------------

As to the important question of how to make yak stew.

Take one yak. The Tibetan yaks are more tender but the Nepalese yaks have more flavor. The choice is yours.

Nelskie
January 21st, 2007, 09:13 AM
That was a good read, tot - - thanks for sharing. That Radial Dragster might be something worth checking into in regards to enhancing the tones I get using my PODxt.

The author of that article makes mention of the Atomic Reactor tube-based amp in regards to his own live sound, and like any gear offering, I've read reviews both ways. Personally, I haven't tried one, so I can't expound with any comparisons.

Flat-response amps are really a key part of the modeling equation, and there are many different approaches as to the best way to go about it. Myself, I use a Tech 21 Power Engine for amplifying my PODxt tones live, and I've been very happy with the results.

More on that here: http://www.thefret.net/showpost.php?p=4457&postcount=1

Although I'd consider the T-21 more of a powered extension cabinet than an amplifier, I will say that it "images" the PODxt's amp models very realistically, and is responsive to the various playing styles I employ. Unlike the Atomic, it's solid-state, which some might think pulls away from the character of the Line 6 modeled tones. Actually, I've found this to be the opposite. Totally vanilla (meaning not running anything but the PODxt straight into the T-21), the tones are pretty convincing - and dare I say it . . . tube-like. Being that Line 6 developed the POD's technology tube-less from the ground-up, people sometimes get the wrong idea that these units won't sound good on their own. They do - very good, as a matter of fact. Anyways, the solid-state thing is becoming less and less of an issue with players who use modeling, and I think that there'll be more of these types of gear offerings (meaning solid-state gear to be used in conjunction with modelers) in the future, as they score big in both reliability, and no-fuss maintenance. In the case of the T-21, it was about $250 cheaper than the Atomic.

Now onto the tube / modeling thing: I've recently started using an ART Project Series tube-based pre-amplifier at the first part of my signal chain (from my guitar to the PODxt). From there, I run the ART into my PODxt, and then out through my T-21. What this allows me to do is push the gain stage prior to the signal hitting the PODxt. The 12AX7 tube in the ART imparts that warm, organic sound to the signal, and thus, alleviates the need to use the gain / OD on the the PODxt - which in my opinion sounds a little bit too "digital" on some of the models. I'm still in the process of tweaking a lot of my pre-sets to work with the ART, but so far, the results have been impressive - esp. with the Fender-y / Vox-y stuff.

The Line 6 forums are also a good place to harvest ideas in regards to using modeling tones live, and a link to that site is already posted somewhere on FN.

SuperSwede
January 21st, 2007, 09:38 AM
Tot, I play through headphones at home but I have been playing with others a few times, and the tonelab works great through the mixer.

Nelskie, I couldnt agree more. A amp modeler sounds best through a solid state amp (and especially amps like the Tech 21) that doesnt color the sound further.

tot_Ou_tard
January 21st, 2007, 10:29 AM
That was a good read, tot - - thanks for sharing. That Radial Dragster might be something worth checking into in regards to enhancing the tones I get using my PODxt.

I'm glad you liked it. Thanks for sharing your considerable insight.

I've used a Dragster for about 6 months. Both with my Tonelab & with my AD30VT. I go through periods where I use it extensively, and others where I don't use it at all. I hesitate to make reccomendations one way or another because I don't have the chops to really test these things out & so much of my time is spent learning guitar basics that I don't spend much time A/Bing things.

That said, if I ever have a problem with brittle top end on goes the Dragster & I can always dial it out and warm up the sound. Too much load & it sounds like the proverbial blanket has been draped over your rig.






Now onto the tube / modeling thing: I've recently started using an ART Project Series tube-based pre-amplifier at the first part of my signal chain (from my guitar to the PODxt). From there, I run the ART into my PODxt, and then out through my T-21. What this allows me to do is push the gain stage prior to the signal hitting the PODxt. The 12AX7 tube in the ART imparts that warm, organic sound to the signal, and thus, alleviates the need to use the gain / OD on the the PODxt - which in my opinion sounds a little bit too "digital" on some of the models. I'm still in the process of tweaking a lot of my pre-sets to work with the ART, but so far, the results have been impressive - esp. with the Fender-y / Vox-y stuff.

I've often thought about doing the same with the Tonelab. Y'know just to see
what happens. StingX uses one after his POD when he records & I've heard of them being used between a modeller and an amp.


Tot, I play through headphones at home but I have been playing with others a few times, and the tonelab works great through the mixer.

Me too. Although recently my son has given his Cube 30 into my care.
If I had time & the chops I'd A/B/C the Tonelab into the Cube's clean channel with my AD30VT and the Cube by itself. Well, I'll do it anyway, but don't expect an accurate detailed review. I am not yet capable of that.

SuperSwede
January 21st, 2007, 10:57 AM
Me too. Although recently my son has given his Cube 30 into my care.
If I had time & the chops I'd A/B/C the Tonelab into the Cube's clean channel with my AD30VT and the Cube by itself. Well, I'll do it anyway, but don't expect an accurate detailed review. I am not yet capable of that.

Do any of your amps have a "power amp in" input? Modelers works best when you go to the power amp direct.

tot_Ou_tard
January 21st, 2007, 03:07 PM
Do any of your amps have a "power amp in" input? Modelers works best when you go to the power amp direct.
Unfortunately not.

t_ross33
January 22nd, 2007, 11:44 AM
for bringing this up again. Now I had to go back through my RP-80 and play with all my settings again :D

I wanted to use my Blues OD for a little boost/dirt but when I had my Vox AD30VT it sounded terrible when I set it up like this: OD > RP-80 > Amp (boutique clean model). Everything just got real thin and crappy sounding. So I moved the OD pedal AFTER the RP-80, and it was a bit better (thinking that the RP-80 wanted a nice clean input signal to work with).

Then, I ditched the Vox, even though I liked it alot, after coming to the realization that modelling thru a modeller just didn't work. Started using my Yamaha SS amp and was way happy. Still, when I kick in the OD, it does funny things to the modulated effects (chorus etc.) and reverb that I didn't care for. Then I gots to thinkin...

You'd want to use an OD to push the gain stage of your amp, why wouldn't it work on an amp "model"... so now I've moved the OD back to the front of the chain and guess what... sounds awesome. Drives the "amp" the way I want it to without distorting the other saved effects.

Now I'm reprogramming all my saved settings and developing patches for my HB-30 as well as Ol' Hartley. I have cool Blackface patches saved (one with single coil sim so I can use the bridge mounted bucker on Ol' Hartley for more tele spank) and all soaked in reverb (controlling the level of saturation with the expression pedal). I've also set up patches for a 59 tweed amp, a Vox AC30, a Marshall stack and a Dual Rectifier :R One thing I have learned: don't overdo the distortion. Set it up with just enough gain to start to hear the break up and use the guitar's volume to dial it in or out as needed. Then kick in the OD pedal for a little boost over the top. It's really starting to come together!

Sorry for the rant. Thought you should know what I've been up to all weekend :D

SuperSwede
January 22nd, 2007, 02:15 PM
Sounds like a great weekend T_ross!
If your Yamaha has a "power amp in" or "loop return" input, try to connect the RP80 to that. I bet it will sound even better.

t_ross33
January 22nd, 2007, 05:03 PM
Sounds like a great weekend T_ross!
If your Yamaha has a "power amp in" or "loop return" input, try to connect the RP80 to that. I bet it will sound even better.
I had fun. My wife was like :mad: :rolleyes::confused: She's very supportive, just doesn't share or understand the depth of my passion, er, obsession (?)

Nothin' fancy on the ol' Yammy, just plug in and go. It's about a '74 or '75. She's a brute, clean and loud! At "2" I start to drown out our drummer :eek: She likes pedals and handles the modelling job reasonably well. I think it's more of an "instrument" amp/mini-PA than a true guitar amp. Turns out, that's a good thing.

Over 30 and still going strong. Gonna use 'er until she blows up.

Trev