Modeling or tube amp - pros and cons

[Robert]

I thought it would be good to talk a bit about modeling amps and tube amps, and why or why not pick one before the other.

Pros
Tube amp

Great Tone. There is something about tube amp tone. Can't be beat.
Take pedals well. Most tube amps work well with pedals and effects.
Status - a tube amp usually impresses people more.
Resell Value - can usually sell them later and get (most of) the money back.


Cons
Tube amp

Price - if you need multichannel, FX loop, etc, it can cost a lot.
Versatility - you may need external effects - pedals or rack gear if you want the kind of versatility a modeling amp has. Naturally, this also brings up the price quite a bit.
Maintenance - can be costly if you have many tubes in your amp and you replace them every year.


Pros
Modeling amp

Price/value for the money - usually costs a lot less than a tube amp and you get a lot for the dollars.
Versatility/Utility - they usually have many amp models and effects built in.
Maintenance - usually not much need to be done. For most modeling amps, there is no need for tube swapping (except for Valvetronix, as we all know).


Cons
Modeling amp

Tone - usually hard to compete in the "Big Tone" department, although it is getting closer all the time. Subjective, of course.
Value - will you get a lot of money back if you sell it 3 years later? Who knows, but I wouldn't bet on it.
May not like pedals - most modeling amps work best if you don't use pedals with hot signal going to the amp input. A booster pedal for example, won't work that well.
Status - most other guitar players won't be drooling over your AD30VT :D


Comments welcome - I probably missed something so feel free to remind me!

[Tone2TheBone]

That about sums it up there Roh bear.

[Spudman]

Something to add:

The touch, the way the amp allows the guitar to react when you attack the strings is different between the two. Isn't it? It seems the touch of the tube amp is more responsive than the modeling amp.

Weight The tube amp usually weighs more. It's only a con if you have to carry your tube amp a lot, or don't have any groupies to carry it for you.

Modifying I have yet to hear of anyone doing mods to modeling amps to get more from them. Tube amps are really open to this.

Fragility Tube amps because they have glass in them and extra heat from tubes can be more fragile than a modeling amp.

[Plank_Spanker]

I play gigs with a modeler. I'll add:

The "tones" might not be spot-on, but with some patience, you can dial them in to make them serviceable enough for gigs. I've taken some ribbing by the "gear heads" about modeling amps not being up to the game - before I ever played a note. That usually converts itself to "Wow, that amp sounds good" after the first set. Nobody that has ever personally heard my modelers has had a bad thing to say about them.

The versatility is an awesome positive factor with modelers.

[Robert]

Good points, Spud, spot on.

Planky, agreed - it would likely mostly be the player himself that could hear the difference, not necessarily anyone else.

[Plank_Spanker]

Now, there's also things to said about tube amps:

A good deal of a tube amp's appeal comes from it's touch response. No modeler that I've ever played has even come close to it. It's nice to lay back nice and soft on the pick attack to let the amp purr softly - and then grow fangs when you start digging into the strings.

Personally, I prefer the warmer cleans of tube amps, right alongside that thick, creamy distortion they're capable of.

My personal amp of choice is my Germino. To me, it's all the "great tube amp goodies" rolled into one small package.

I gig with my Johnsons because they offer incredible versatility. I can switch from Mesa to Marshall to Fender and all points in between with a click of a foot switch - and they sound pretty good doing it.

[duhvoodooman]

For me, it comes down to:


Tube amps - tone & touch

Modeling amps - flexibility & value

Which is why I have both! :DR

[sunvalleylaw]

For me, it comes down to:


Tube amps - tone & touch

Modeling amps - flexibility & value

Which is why I have both! :DR


Sounds like it about sums it up. I was going to go for the flexibility and value first, but went with the C-30 cause I loved the tone, and really love the touch thing. Hope to add a small modeler later down the road for experimentation.

[SuperSwede]

Interesting thread Robert. I guess having both a good modeler and a tube amp would satisfy most players. Or get a tonelab that is a modeler with a tube :p

[tot_Ou_tard]

On the Pro side for modelers is that you can get all that goodness through your headphones.

(Although the VOX ADVT series stupidly has the line out come before the
Valvereactor circuit).

Another thing for beginners is that it gives you a chance to play around with different types of sound so that you know what you are looking for in a tube amp when you buy one.

I don't have a tube amp, so I can't say anything about the touch thing, but don't you need to have the amp cooking to get it?

[duhvoodooman]

.... but don't you need to have the amp cooking to get it?
Geez, Tot, don't use the phrase "amp cooking" around here! You trying to further traumatize 6S9L after his recent Vibro Champ debacle? :eek: ;)

[tot_Ou_tard]

Geez, Tot, don't use the phrase "amp cooking" around here! You trying to further traumatize 6S9L after his recent Vibro Champ debacle? :eek: ;)

Yikes! Not much touch after that kind of cooking. Sorry 6S9L.

Maybe he can donate one of his 9 lives to his amp.

[6STRINGS 9LIVES]

HARDEY HAR HAR ...:D ... cant get away with anything round these parts ..regarding tube vs mos ... you guys summed it up pretty well the only thing i'd add would be the resale value and investment potential of vintage tubage .... and THE COOL FACTOR!!!

[warren0728]

Although the VOX ADVT series stupidly has the line out come before the Valvereactor circuit
is there any good reason for doing this...could it have been that much harder to wire the line out AFTER the valvereactor circuit....thius has always bugged me about my vox :mad:

ww

[Nelskie]

.... and THE COOL FACTOR!!!
Perhaps, Mr. Moderator, you could go into more detail about this particular point in the Vintage section of the forum? Soapboxes are optional.

One of the big pro's for modeling amps / pre-amps, at least for me, is the reaction I get from died-in-the-wool tube hounds when they hear how good modeled tones can sound. I own, and enjoy playing both types (tube and modeling) of gear - yet, getting great, tube-like tone from modeling gear offers a feeling of satisfaction quite unlike any other. The technological aspects of it I also very interesting - as in how the inherent characteristics tones and effects are designed digitally. I also ike devising ways to make the tones sound, and react, more authentically to the various styles of music I play.

Tube amps, to me, are like a big hug from an old friend. No matter what the occasion, it always brings a smile to your face. When you're face-to-face with a good tube amp, things just feel right. The rest of whatever just falls into place after that. As for being face-to-face with a great tube amp . . . well, I might have delved into that topic a time or two before. ;)

[tot_Ou_tard]

is there any good reason for doing this...could it have been that much harder to wire the line out AFTER the valvereactor circuit....thius has always bugged me about my vox :mad:

ww

I asked this once in the patchtronix forum & Voxman (a very knowledgeable guy) said to save money. I don't understand that. It really costs more to hook a wire here rather than there?

[warren0728]

I asked this once in the patchtronix forum & Voxman (a very knowledgeable guy) said to save money. I don't understand that. I really costs more to hook a wire here rather than there?
that's what i'm thinking....makes no sense at all....

ww

[tremoloman]

Once I heard my Strat through a tube amp, I'll never go back to solid state. Tubes just have that special wonderful warm "something" that I have yet to hear recreated on a modeled amp. The Vox AD series does a great job at coming close, but it just can't match a true tube amp to my ears. :)

[tot_Ou_tard]

Once I heard my Strat through a tube amp, I'll never go back to solid state. Tubes just have that special wonderful warm "something" that I have yet to hear recreated on a modeled amp. The Vox AD series does a great job at coming close, but it just can't match a true tube amp to my ears. :)

What amp was that Trem?