Oversinging in popular music?

[sunvalleylaw]

Oversinging in popular music?

http://www.thenewstribune.com/ae/story/6420964p-5723399c.html

What say you?

How is oversinging and overreaching vocally similar or different than a screeching guitar solo with major guitar face? At what point does a solo start to become "overplaying" or "trying too hard"?

[SuperSwede]

At what point does a solo start to become "overplaying" or "trying too hard"?

At this point:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/elhuevos/yngwie.jpg

[marnold]

I think it's the point where the singing or soloing becomes more than the song itself. I don't think anyone has ever sung "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" better than Judy Garland did originally, but every prima donna thinks they can make it better by adding a million flourishes. As an aside, back in the day I was at a bar that had karaoke. Someone came up and did an over-the-top rendition of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" and was actually booed off the stage. His voice was obviously far superior to anyone else's who sang that night, but the point was that he made himself bigger than the song and wanted to show how much better he was than everyone else.

My example from a guitar standpoint is Shawn Lane's cover of "All Along the Watchtower." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkjp4r8wINA) It starts out OK, but very quickly descends into a series of unnecessary and self-indulgent fills. The solo at the end is particularly annoying. Obviously he was talented, but there's no restraint here at all.

One "shredder" I've been impressed with in this regard is Michael Angelo Batio. Yeah, he can do all of the tricks and do the "fistful of nails into a tin can" thing, but he also knows that you can't have a song full of that. He knows when to hold it back and when to listen to it rip. Listen to some Vivaldi some day. That guy was the original shredder. But it wasn't "all shredding, all the time" either.

Also SS showed a picture of his countryman there, but Yngwie's cover of "Spanish Castle Magic" is surprisingly good. He shows the restraint through most of that song that Lane does not.

[t_ross33]

Not a big fan of the "pushin' it" crowd. I'll take Etta or Billie Holiday any day over the current pop divas. Some of the best vocal performances I've ever heard were very understated, heck even Willie and Ol' Waylon can bring a tear to my eye sometimes. You don't have to belt it out to get a song across to an audience.

One of the best vocal performances I've heard in recent months is William Shatner's (yes, THAT William Shatner) version of "Common People". Seriously, you have to check it out! It's the best freakin' song in the universe :D

[Danzego]

Don't even compare Yngwie to the talent deficient, tasteless bums this article is referring to. Yes, Yngwie is over the top and he sure doesn't tear out emotional guitar solos like, say, SRV or David Gilmour, but that's not his "thing".

Maybe it does take him hundreds more notes to get there or maybe he doesn't even reach that plateau; depends on your taste and your ear. But what he does isn't even close to a comparison to "American Idol-ites" and their kind.

[Spudman]

That is where I was going to go with this...American Idol. It seems like a "technique fest". While musically correct it certainly doesn't sell me on the song.
It takes special talent to make you really believe the song, not a million flourishes. Can you imagine "Maybe I'm Amazed" with an Yngwie solo in it? Nah, me either. Some songs call for it some don't. The true artistry lies in figuring out what goes where.
I worked with a very capable bassist and during a fairly simple song he just stared doing a major technique fest. Musically it was correct and it did fit, but I asked him "do you really feel that what you are doing supports the song and as a listener you would enjoy it?" I won that round.:)

[TS808]

That is where I was going to go with this...American Idol. It seems like a "technique fest". While musically correct it certainly doesn't sell me on the song.

Man, this topic is a sore spot for me for sure, as music becomes filled with "American Idol" types, and the guitar hero has slowly faded away with popular music.

I think though that this topic kind of speaks for itself: how many American Idol stars for example, have really hit a level of "fame and fortune" or popularity that many of yesteryear's stars have? Look at the "pop tarts" like Britney Spears, etc., whose popularity relies on publicity stunts like not wearing undies in public, going to rehab, or who they're dating lately. Are they going to be known as great vocalists 10 years from now? I doubt it. 10 years from now though, we'll still remember great guitarists and songwriters like Hendrix, SRV, etc.

I had the chance a few months ago to see Eric Johnson and Satch do a show together. Great concert and great chops by both. But to be honest, after about the 10th song by Satch, it started to get stale for me. He's a great player, but yes, it does become overkill after a while (just my opinion).

I'd rather kick back and listen to Otis Redding belt out "Sittin' On The Dock Of the Bay" anyday, rather than some of these American Idol types.

Today's music (especially the vocals) lack emotion and soul in my opinion.

[Plank_Spanker]

One of the secrets of being a great guitar player is knowing when not to play....................:D

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok guys. This is great. Just the stuff I wanted to read discussed. Now, for the beginner who is just learning to solo (mostly pentatonic, trying to add in some chromatic, etc.) what are some of the fundamentals to nail down. I was thinking working on a good controlled vibrato for expression, learning more about timing and feel, (when to play, when not), learning more about nailing pitch on bends, I don't know what else. My aim is to learn to express more with less. I guess it comes down to studying what is really going right on a good solo.

I have heard three or four versions of Mayer's solo on Gravity. It seems to me at this time that I like the simple ones better. Even compared to the youtube one John apparently released that was posted on a thread a few weeks ago. Just my taste. I am going to listen to the different versions I have access to this week and compare just to see what I think works and doesn't.

Marnold, my Dad plays "Somewhere over the rainbow" as part of his regular numbers he plays as an amateur on his alto and tenor saxaphones. I totally agree with your post. Although my Dad has a jazz background, he sticks close to the original song. I tend to think he nails it. :-)

[Mark]

One of the secrets of being a great guitar player is knowing when not to play....................:D
Bingo ding ding ding Ladies and germs we have a winner!!!!!!!!

[Danzego]

I think though that this topic kind of speaks for itself: how many American Idol stars for example, have really hit a level of "fame and fortune" or popularity that many of yesteryear's stars have? Look at the "pop tarts" like Britney Spears, etc., whose popularity relies on publicity stunts like not wearing undies in public, going to rehab, or who they're dating lately. Are they going to be known as great vocalists 10 years from now? I doubt it. 10 years from now though, we'll still remember great guitarists and songwriters like Hendrix, SRV, etc.

There's a good reason for that. I mean, it's not like there's a shortage of talented, unsigned acts and artists out there. The record companies don't want to sign bands that are going to go on and make themselves lots of money, get themselves into a position of power, demand the rights to their publishing and higher royalties, etc. They want to keep signing "flavor of the month's" who are dying for their 15 minutes of fame (though they all think they'll be the one to last, of course) for peanuts, get their windfalls, and then dump 'em on their heads when the kiddies move on to the next one the record company just signed and is now throwing all of their resources behind.

[sunvalleylaw]

One of the secrets of being a great guitar player is knowing when not to play....................:D

I was thinking about this excellent point, but learning how? I then stumbled on this thread where Plank's point was discussed by Kat (beginning of second page of thread):

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=1073

So, time to dust off my old Stones stuff and listen to Keef!! I think I'll try to import some licks into the looper and try to play along. :DR

This place is so cool for learning!

[tot_Ou_tard]

Not a big fan of the "pushin' it" crowd. I'll take Etta or Billie Holiday any day over the current pop divas. Some of the best vocal performances I've ever heard were very understated, heck even Willie and Ol' Waylon can bring a tear to my eye sometimes. You don't have to belt it out to get a song across to an audience.

One of the best vocal performances I've heard in recent months is William Shatner's (yes, THAT William Shatner) version of "Common People". Seriously, you have to check it out! It's the best freakin' song in the universe :D
Etta! Billie! Waylon! Willie!


........................Shatner?!? :confused: :D :confused: