I finally did it!

[ShortBuSX]

Some friends of mine have a band, I catch alot of thier practices...I do alot of set up/intonation and guitar tech stuff for them, I also help them set up and break down. I bring my own gear over every now and again and pittle around before, during and after alot of times on thier gear.

Ive never really played with a band, although Ive played guitar off and on(more off than on) since I was bout 12(Im now 34)...Id told these guys that Id like to try jammin along more with them(or atleast the drummer) to work on my rhythm. I mostly play to relax and alot of my playing consists of intricate rhythms like "Every Breathe You Take" that I turn into an exercise...alot of times I wont even learn a whole song, I get bored right around the chrorus'.

The funny thing is no matter how well my dexterity is...as soon as someone joins me, weather its a guitar/bass, someone singing...I choke. Its like I trip over my fingers...I get lost...I dunno. But a drummer kinda helps me...but I still choke. And what I think is the real funny/sad thing...is that I can totally wow these guys with stuff like "The Rain Song"...or other (what Id consider)technical songs...but I choke.

The other night inbetween songs, kinda smoke break...one of the guitarist hands me his guitar...and I start banging out "Roxanne" and before long the drummer and bass player join in....I MADE IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH!!! Yeah I fumbled a few times...but I still persisted!

Im still pretty stoaked about it...but Id like to gt better and be able to do more...I recon itll happen in due time, I should probably practice more along with some CDs or somethin, but thats never really been my thing...I guess I make it difficult for myself by trying to learn a song before playing along...I dunno. I just had to tell somebody...maybe yall could help me with some tips or recommendations. *shrug*

[Robert]

That's great to hear! I love that song Roxanne, by the way.

To get better at playing with others, I encourage you to practice songs with a backing track, drum machine, or just play along to the original song.

I used to be terrible at playing with others, because I just played at home without any kind of rhythm track. My timing really sucked back then. It did improve however, when I started practicing with a drum machine.

[M29]

Hello ShortBuSX,

Yeah like Robert says backing tracks and drum machines should do it.

I played drums for years back in the day and once in a while a guy would want to jam with us like one of our managers. He would start off with something like All Right Now by the Free and we would get a few bars into it and he would get way off in timing. I kept thinking what the heck happened but I think because he played by himself and was not totally disciplined with timing he would not listen to the whole group but concentrate on what he was doing. This would be normal for someone jamming by himself but when he got with a group he had to concentrate on the others in the band totally and he would get behind or lag or something. I think you are on the right track you just need to stay in there practice like Robert recommends with BT's and a DM and give it a few more trys then you will be right in the groove with the rest of them.
My problem when playing guitar with other guys is that my hands sweat so much I end up slipping all over the fretboard and I get pretty sloppy at times but I have only played with a group once or twice and I know that is all I need is to get more confident and better at playing in general. It will come.

M29

[t_ross33]

I think we all hear a song in our head a certain way, certain timing etc. so when we practice solo, we think it sounds great! Trouble is, not everyone is "hearing" the same song when you jump in with a group.

Playing live takes practice and is more of a "feel" than trying to be technically proficient (which I most certainly am not). However, I can find a groove and jam along in most situations.

Believe it or not, playing along with the track on CD, tape or whatever can really improve your sense of timing. Work on the rhythm and the timing, then fill in the riffs once you are comfortable.

One thing I've learned since I was a teenager: it's fun to play with yourself, but it's way better with others :D :D

Congrats on catchin' the bug! We'll have a FretFest Live before you know it!

Trev

[Spudman]

Step 1 - Play with others.
I used to play in bands all the time. It was playing with others that got me so...that I could play with others.

Step 2 - Finish songs when you play alone.
With a group everyone goes from the beginning to the middle to the end. Even if it's boring you will still be teaching yourself to support the other people that you play with. It may not be boring for them and they can use your support. Discipline.

Step 3 - Play with a machine.
Like playing with people - when the clock starts so do you, and you end when the clock stops. No other way about it. You have to keep up. When I got out of bands for a while I too got sloppy. I bought a cheap Yamaha QY10 sequencer and recorded and played to that. It helped my timing immensely, and when I auditioned for a band I was able to be tight right away. It got me many gigs.

Step 4 - Listen to others.
When you play with a group listen to what they are doing. That way you will be able to find the space where you should play. A lot of times we are so in our heads and focus so much on what WE are doing that we are oblivious of what others are doing. When you become aware of all that is happening around you then you'll know what to do. That is where one of the real joys of sharing a musical experience comes into play.

[ShortBuSX]

Step 4 - Listen to others.
When you play with a group listen to what they are doing. That way you will be able to find the space where you should play. A lot of times we are so in our heads and focus so much on what WE are doing that we are oblivious of what others are doing. When you become aware of all that is happening around you then you'll know what to do. That is where one of the real joys of sharing a musical experience comes into play.

Its this that messes me up...for me playing is more like a meditation, a game of memory...I get like tunnel vision. And its when all this other stuff is going that I lose sight...kinda like when someone is talking to you(me) while playing...it breaks my concentration. But I have been playing(excersizes) alot while watching TV lately and thats helped me broaden my focus to where Im able to pay attention to a couple of different things(and not just my fingers)...I still cant talk and play, but oh well.

I think Id really like to get a Loop Station to jam along with...I dont know much about drum machines...my RP200 has a built in metronome but I cant ever figure out the type beat to use that would suite the song Im trying to practice.

All in all Im actually pretty impressed with my current progress...although Ive had a guitar since I was 12, I really dropped it when I was bout 18 and would only pick it back up for maybe a month at a time with years inbetween. When I would pick it back up Id still remember the exercises and some scales, Id learn a few different ones and maybe a song or 2 that was of interest at the time...Ive only started getting serious after I made a commitment to myself that Id play more if I bought myself a new guitar(Squier Tele) for my birthday...so Ive only been serious about it since Septemeber(6 months now)...so as I said Im pleased. Id have to say the internet is very helpful in keeping my interest, and theFret is a great influence(as well as Tdpri)...but with all the gear, GAS, electronics and whatnot it gets easy to get distracted.

I think Im on the right track by helping my friends band out as much as possible, gives me alot of time to watch and learn...at the least Im able to strum along even if Im not plugged in.

[Spudman]

It sounds like you are on track. Persistence. WE all had those difficulties when we started but what you are doing is retraining your brain and that takes some time and consistency.
A looper is a great idea. One of the best practice/creation devices to come out in decades.

[M29]

Spudman hit it on the head. Learning to support others in the band is where the fun really begins because this is when you start to influence the total sound and the direction it is going. Each person adds flavor to the mix and once you have got some experience under your belt there is nothing like it when you can feel where the music is going and be able to (tastefully) help others feel free in (their ) expression and then move with yours and compliment the whole song.

Oh man I want to jam!!!! If I could only play good enough. I am getting closer but it never goes fast enough.

All the best

M29

[ShortBuSX]

Learning to support others in the band is where the fun really begins because this is when you start to influence the total sound and the direction it is going. Each person adds flavor to the mix and once you have got some experience under your belt there is nothing like it when you can feel where the music is going and be able to (tastefully) help others feel free in (their ) expression and then move with yours and compliment the whole song.


Thats pretty much what Ive been doing as "roadie/guitar tech"...and in off times, while Im able to play, I see some of the stuff I play(mostly rock and 80s metal) inspire them to play something a little differnt...Ive even helped with songs where parts were missing(recently "Beds Too Big...") as they mostly play by "feel" or by ear, whereas Ive got to "learn" a song.

But in a simi related, but hardly a learning experience for a guitarist...I find that the most helpful I can be is tearing down all the gear ASAP after the last song...giving them time to go around and mingle and relax, get a drink or smoke. On a previous gig they gave me all the tip money theyd earned for the evening...I declined but they insisted...so I bought beer fr the after party:D

[Hogfullofblues]

Hey, sounds like you overcame a stumbling block and that's always a good thing. And not an easy thing either. Plus you are in a great position to experience live playing, get to play some yourself, and drink beer! That puts you miles ahead of newbs like me (except for the beer part). Way to go I say, and you are on your way.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I bought a cheap Yamaha QY10 sequencer and recorded and played to that. It helped my timing immensely, and when I auditioned for a band I was able to be tight right away. It got me many gigs.

A friend of mine at work lent me her QY10 (she is a bass player) that she used when she was learning to play. I've yet to use it--I use my Boss RC-2 looper instead, but you've convinced me to give it a whirl.

[Spudman]

tOt
Be sure to figure out how to defeat whichever of the 4 rhythm tracks you want. That way you can either have a piano chordal accompaniment or not, or a bass accompaniment or not. I used it just for drums. I would defeat 3 of the 4 tracks and only the drums would play.
Fun unit and capable of doing so much. I never did figure out how to do much of what it will...but I still have it.

[tot_Ou_tard]

tOt
Be sure to figure out how to defeat whichever of the 4 rhythm tracks you want. That way you can either have a piano chordal accompaniment or not, or a bass accompaniment or not. I used it just for drums. I would defeat 3 of the 4 tracks and only the drums would play.
Fun unit and capable of doing so much. I never did figure out how to do much of what it will...but I still have it.

Thanks Spud, I'll mess around with it. I was thinking of using the bass, piano & drums as backing tracks. I poked around to see if there are updated sequencers. There are, but yikes! are they expensive. Everything has moved to software I guess.

[warren0728]

late to the party here...sounds like you are moving in the right direction!

ROCK ON

ww

[ShortBuSX]

Thursday nights I like to goto Cocoa Village, I have dinner at one place and they usually have some kind of mild jam or band playing, then Im able to walk across the street and catch another band and a few more brews, and once I tire of that(band) I walk around the corner to an upstairs bar that has an open jam every Thursday. Its a fun time and Im able to get my live music fix and it kinda primes me for the weekend.

So I met up with a couple of friends(one of the guys in the band I help out with and his new GF) at the second place and we decide to walk to the upstairs place. We get there and nobody is playing but there are several instruments on the stage. I order a round of drinks for my friends and I just about finish with my beverage and notice the bass layer walking by and ask "are yall going to play anymore this evening?" And he responds "yeah, why you wanna play?" I was kinda buzzin a lil and the question caught me off guard and I didnt have time to think about it or talk myself out of it, and I respond "Sure, somebodys gotta play...can I play that acoustic over there?" They say yeah and set me up by myself...it didnt take long for me to notice the rusty barnicles on these out of tune strings but I made due. I played "The Rain Song" cold, I felt I was making all the chord changes well, but then the guy whos guitar I was pickin walked over and told me to "chill, theres nobody here, relax" and immediately I could see what he was talking about, I was a lil nervous/tense...but eh, thats a tough song and my hands were cold/rusty. I made it through and stumbled with some small stuff at the very end, but its a real feat to get that far, IMO. I then did a couple of verses of "Over the Hills and Far Away" till I got bored doing the samething over and over again(nobody was singing, and I dont either)...and then I did "Message In a Bottle" and the guitar owner jumped up and over to me and asked if I knew the whole song..."yeah", he tried singing along a little with the chorus...but by then I was bout done, but he asked me if I knew anymore Police and I played a little of "Every Breath You Take" and then I was done, "Lets hear it for Neal!"...I got a round of applause from the 10 or so patrons that were still there.

[sunvalleylaw]

Cool! Great story, and sounds like a good time!

[Earful]

I will be able to tell one of these stories one day......!
:cool:

[warren0728]

"Lets hear it for Neal!"...I got a round of applause from the 10 or so patrons that were still there.
very cool...i want to play live on stage at least once before i croak!!

ww

[Fingers]

It's like "Red light syndrome".............You practice and practice and then you practice some more until you have it perfect......................

Then you press the record button....the red light goes on and your ability flies out the window....................

Just keep trying..............

[ShortBuSX]

What a GREAT night! Last night I went to my buddys' band practice, like I normally do, as Ive said in the past they let me sit in and jam on occassion...last night the rhythm(I hate spelling that word!) guitarist was away on travel...so I got to fill in!!! Im still not so good, I dont have hardly any experience playing with a band or any accompaniment and Ive never made a habit of practicing with the CD(which they keep telling me I need to start doing so)...but I feel I did very well considering my limited experience.

I got to play "Whole Lotta Love"...and further more I got to play the SOLO, which Ive known(had memorized) since my teens...except this time I got to play along, and it was awesome! Of course I stumbled a little, but I got to see what it was like and I do better next time.

Then the "Rover", also known this song since I was a kid...took a couple minutes to get in the groove, but now get what its all about.

I cant remember all the songs we played, but I jammed with them for about 3 hours...then felt like I might be impossing on thier practice, even if the rhythm guy was away, so I sat down and enjoyed watching them practice as a 3 piece.

I had a great time and learned some of my weaknesses, I need to practice with the disc...and I need to practice standing up as my left hand falls differntly than my normal seated or lounging/laying around posture.

AND it was encouraging to hear the drummer tell me he wanted me to work on a couple of the tunes I brought with me(that they dont normally play)...and now that I think about it, the drummer(out of all of them) has been the most encouraging of the bunch(and I know him the least).

[Tone2TheBone]

Cool. Do you do the Rain Song in G like the studio acoustic version or do you do the live The Song Remains The Same electric version?

[ShortBuSX]

Cool. Do you do the Rain Song in G like the studio acoustic version or do you do the live The Song Remains The Same electric version?

I dont know about the live versions so much...but I dont play it in open tuning, I suffer with the challenge of the standard tuning version(maybe thats the live version, I dunno). But now that Ive got a handful of guitars I really need to set one up for open tuning...I just dont know what JImmy Page's most used opening tuning is...Id also like to learn some Motley Crue finally...I always hated that he used alternate tunings, made learning thier stuff more difficult for me.

BTW for Rain Song, I ususlaly play it on my Tele with the volume knob backed off a little.

[LagrangeCalvert]

I used to be terrible at playing with others, because I just played at home without any kind of rhythm track. My timing really sucked back then. It did improve however, when I started practicing with a drum machine.


I sometimes sub. for some teachers at the Local guitar shops.... and the first thing I tell students when they say "I really want to become a good guitarist" is to buy a metronome....this is key....play almost every thing you write behind a click track or metronome and you will be telling drummers their behind/fast.

Most people overlook this...when writing a solo, practicing your scales/modes doing almost anything - working on your phrasing is a big one - this technique will make you into a great player.

Try a test here: Get a metronome (their not gonna break the bank) and play one of your favorite licks without it.....set it to the tempo you feel is the closest you can get to it and then play it again.

Use this test too when writing solos and your phrasing will improve tenfold!

Just thought I would try to help.:D