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Tone2TheBone
January 11th, 2006, 12:17 PM
I've read lots of threads here and one thing I notice is that a lot of us apologize for our playing. Especially when someone has posted a song they've recorded and shared here with the rest of us. Why do we do that?

When I ask someone to play something for me I don't care how good they are or how advanced they are in their technique...I don't even mention anything about it, yet everyone I have asked will almost always apologize for their playing. I listen to appreciate the state of the art and I still grab any kind of knowledge from them that they can offer...even if they're novices. Who cares? At least they're playing. No one should ever have to apologize for their playing ability I think. Maybe it's cause as humans we're very competitive and self conscious.

What do you guys think?

Katastrophe
January 11th, 2006, 12:43 PM
Well said, tone!

I don't care about playing ability either. Enthusiasm and a love for playing is what's important. Besides, as a new player, the best way to learn is by hanging with other musicians and asking questions. I still do it to this day, and learn from it just about every time.

Myles
January 11th, 2006, 01:06 PM
Apologizing for one's playing is natural like any other creative endeavor. You put your heart and soul into your hobby and many of us would rather apologize to guard ourselves from critics rather they ask "what do you guys think?". Often, we simply want people to respond with encouragement and not with critism. As humans we need positive reinforcement, some of us more than others, but its still needed.

Nonetheless, I agree with tone2thebone's movement. You have to have the confidence in your abilities to not apologize for it and you have to understand that by not apologizing you will gain other's respect (and critism, unfortunately), but most importantly you will respect yourself.

Matt
January 11th, 2006, 01:57 PM
how funny, just apologised for the sloppy intro i posted in the acoustic section and then read this. I think Vitalmyles hit the nail on the head- by apologising we are sort of guarding ourselves against critisism we may recieve, but like the others, i agree- we shouldnt have to!

regards

Matt

Nelskie
January 11th, 2006, 02:12 PM
I also think that when you're exposing your playing to potentially hundreds of people, you might feel a little intimidated by others who are much better than you are. I remember a time not too long ago when I sat in with my friends band for part of a set, it was like "Whoa, what am I doing here!" All were very accomplished musicians. Anyways, my playing was a little "edgy" to start out with. My friend says, "I've heard you play this song perfectly a hundred times . . . just relax." A song or two later, I was in the flow of things, and felt pretty comfortable with my playing.

I think the same principle holds true of what we post on this forum - esp. stuff like original songs and clips. As we all become familiar with the "surroundings" here, I think that "I'm sorry" attitude will dissipate. Personally, I've been VERY inspired by the members who have shared with us some of their own music and playing, either on this site, through their own web pages, or via community-type music pages. As 2006 progresses, I am looking forward to doing the same.

Tone brings up a key issue, and one that I think directly affects our members involvement in this forum. It was something that needed to be said, and now that it has, I think we can all move forward in a very positive frame of mind.

Tone - great post; Myles, Kat, Matt - excellent follow-up.

Robert
January 11th, 2006, 03:21 PM
Great post, Tone! And great follow-ups. I'm still thinking about my response...I'll add it later when the fog clears.

marnold
January 11th, 2006, 09:30 PM
I'd like to apologize for this post. And my haircut.

SuperSwede
January 12th, 2006, 10:46 AM
Tone, I think you are absolutely right... I am one of those "excuse me for living" characters too, I guess it is very deep rooted (at least in me) that it´s not entirely ok to present something that you don´t think is 100% perfect.
Sorry if my reply were a bit confusing ;)

Tone2TheBone
January 12th, 2006, 11:03 AM
Excellent responses guys! I kinda wanted us to think about this and you guys had great replies. I agree with Vital that we're so used to validating ourselves, but we also seek to be praised in some way even at the risk of "looking" like a dope. Each of you had very good points and expanded on this idea very well. No one should feel the need to apologize for their creativity here. Katastrophe made an excellent point in that we can learn and absorb so much by playing with others, especially ones that are better than us. I know I have learned a great deal by asking questions and jamming along with better players. I even learn from people just starting out too. Some of the best players I've ever heard have been people that are so humble you wouldn't have ever known they played at all. I'm sure they apologized at one time or another for something they've done or not done correctly in their eyes. We're our worst critics. As Nelski said maybe we can move on in a positive way and share our creativity without regard to self criticism. I think those of you that have posted songs have done an awesome job! Bravo! This was just something to throw out...food for thought...and the responses were awesome.

tremoloman
January 12th, 2006, 04:17 PM
Apologizing for one's playing is natural like any other creative endeavor. You put your heart and soul into your hobby and many of us would rather apologize to guard ourselves from critics rather they ask "what do you guys think?". Often, we simply want people to respond with encouragement and not with critism. As humans we need positive reinforcement, some of us more than others, but its still needed.

I think your statement sums up why people apologize.

For years I refrained from joining a band and performing live due to the fear and intimidation I felt. I was so caught up in worrying about “not being good enough” and troubled what other musicians in the audience might think of my playing.

How did I get over it?

A few years ago, I went to see a friend’s band play in a bar. The guitar player wasn’t that skilled in the solo department, yet it didn’t seem to bother him. After the gig I asked him about soloing. He told me, “I know I’m no Eddie Van Halen, but I’m just doing my own thing.” I thought to myself “he’s right… stop trying to be someone you aren’t… just do your own thing.” From that point on, I stopped worrying and started playing.

A month later, I was playing with my friend Peter who is an amazing talent. He picked up my guitar and played some classical music that blew me away. I said “Yikes… dude, I’m not even close to your skill level.” He replied back “There is no such thing as good or bad - music is merely subjective. Perhaps I can play classical songs that you aren’t able to yet. So what? You can play ‘Hot For Teacher’ and ‘YYZ’, songs that I don’t have a prayer of performing. See, the better you become at guitar, the more humble you will be. Stop worrying what people think and just play dammit! You will never be able to please everybody, so just play what you like and play for yourself.” I took his advice and never looked back. Since then, I formed a band and we’ve played live together for years now.

I thought I’d share that everyone in case any of you may be a victim of the paranoia I used to struggle with.

Tone2TheBone
January 12th, 2006, 06:13 PM
Trem,

Well put! Very well put. I don't mean this in anyway to discredit what all of us do musically with this next statement but really...90% of the people won't even notice anything we've done wrong when listening to us play. To the general Joe or Josephine, we sound great. Now to fellow musicians it's different...but in light of what Tremelo said about his friend...just get up and play and play it like you mean it. People and fellow musicians will pick up on that vibe from you and like what you're doing when you put your ALL into it.

sunvalleylaw
December 27th, 2006, 04:51 PM
I think your statement sums up why people apologize.

For years I refrained from joining a band and performing live due to the fear and intimidation I felt. I was so caught up in worrying about “not being good enough” and troubled what other musicians in the audience might think of my playing.

How did I get over it?

. . . Since then, I formed a band and we’ve played live together for years now.

I thought I’d share that everyone in case any of you may be a victim of the paranoia I used to struggle with.


Thanks T-man, and thanks Tone for the thread that I only now found. It helps move me along. :)

Tone2TheBone
December 27th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Spank some sweet riffs on your awesome 60th through that new Classic 30 you're getting! Get that motivation flowing bro! :)

sunvalleylaw
December 27th, 2006, 05:14 PM
Spank some sweet riffs on your awesome 60th through that new Classic 30 you're getting! Get that motivation flowing bro! :)


Its all coming. Part of my New Year's resolutions. More playing, less spraying! :D ;) :D

Spudman
December 27th, 2006, 06:37 PM
I'm sorry. I missed this thread somehow.

kerc
December 27th, 2006, 06:57 PM
When I get my Reverend, I'll record a clips and I promise I won't apologize for the clams. Seafood is good anyway. :D

kerc
December 27th, 2006, 06:58 PM
Apologizing for one's playing is natural like any other creative endeavor. You put your heart and soul into your hobby and many of us would rather apologize to guard ourselves from critics rather they ask "what do you guys think?". Often, we simply want people to respond with encouragement and not with critism. As humans we need positive reinforcement, some of us more than others, but its still needed.

Nonetheless, I agree with tone2thebone's movement. You have to have the confidence in your abilities to not apologize for it and you have to understand that by not apologizing you will gain other's respect (and critism, unfortunately), but most importantly you will respect yourself.

By the way, I agree 101%. :D

oldguy
December 27th, 2006, 08:17 PM
I have recently acquired 2 Squier 51's, and will post clips when time allows.
The Squier's are both very nice axes and sound fine. I am sure the clips will not be very professional, however, and for whatever suckage factor involved I will be sure not to apologize. I will try to include at least one of Robert's chromatic licks (Thanks, Robert!), as I have been practicing them. I will play them to the best of my ability, and not apologize for this, either.
By not apologizing, I don't expect to garner others respect, but critism is, as always, welcomed. It will be read, listened to, given the utmost attention, scrutinized, and summarily giggled at and dismissed. I promise.

snarph
December 27th, 2006, 09:42 PM
Now if we could only do something about the way every body screws the faces up when they play every thing would be alright :)

kerc
December 28th, 2006, 04:39 AM
Now if we could only do something about the way every body screws the faces up when they play every thing would be alright :)

I try hard not to look like Robin Trower. :p

tremoloman
December 29th, 2006, 12:20 PM
Maybe it's cause as humans we're very competitive and self conscious.I think because people are so judgemental and particular when it comes to music. I know I used to get intimidated by more skilled players since in the past I used to hear "you suck" and "you'll never learn how to play that thing" when I first started. I hung around with people who could play like EVH so it was rough forme starting out.

Tone2TheBone
December 29th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Tremo - I liked playing with people better than me. I tried to make it a point to play with guys who were IT around here. I learned a lot from them and all of them were actually pleased when I'd ask them "hey show me that lick". They spent a great deal of time and energy making sure I understood what they were doing. I'll always be grateful for that. There are some of you in here that I'd like to rub minds with too.

Robert
December 29th, 2006, 05:14 PM
My Youtube videos get comments like "You suck", and "useless", etc, all the time...

But I don't let it affect me too much. I know my limits and I am what I am.

tot_Ou_tard
December 29th, 2006, 09:02 PM
Why apologize. I totally suck & I know it. On the other hand a year ago I picked up my first guitar. If you want to hear a completely lame player listen to me a year ago.

Man that guy sucked big time!

------------------------------------------------------------
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztttt

Just doing a little time travel.

This is December 2007 tOt and I agree with December 2006 tOt. He totally sucked.

Man! What a lame-O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-------------------------------------

December 2008 tOt here....those other tOt are total losers....

SuperSwede
December 30th, 2006, 09:20 AM
My Youtube videos get comments like "You suck", and "useless", etc, all the time...

But I don't let it affect me too much. I know my limits and I am what I am.

You get lots of positive comments too, especially on your own website... But to be popular on youtube you probably need bigger boobs ;)

alanfc
January 10th, 2007, 05:10 PM
yes for me its real natural to do this too.... its usually when I've got something to show or getting opinions from great players.

Here's a thread elsewhere where I got some helpful comments on this type of issue:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/bad-dog-cafe/37724-finally-i-dont-care-i-dont-care.html?highlight=care

Janarm
January 11th, 2007, 04:53 AM
I think that always can do everything better!