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r_a_smith3530
February 2nd, 2006, 01:51 AM
As a recovering guitar player turned bassist, one of the things that is beginning to intrigue me is acoustic bass, both the traditional stand up variety, and also the newer acoustic/electric bass guitars.

Does anyone here have much experience with either? I've played a couple of the acoustic bass guitars at local shops and their large bodies seem somewhat awkward to me. Has anyone got any favorites?

Ah, the standup! The sound of Charles Mingus floating through the air. How much should I spend on one of these babies as a minimum? I'm familiar with names like Fender, Gibson, Peavey, and G&L, but when it comes to the 3/4 and double bass, I am hopelessly lost. Anybody got any fresh ideas? How do various brands stack up?

SuperSwede
February 2nd, 2006, 09:37 AM
My father used to be a touring bassist (stand-up bass) during to 50&60´s. I know that his bass is valued around 150.000-200.000 sek. So I guess that a real good bass is much more expensive than a real good guitar.. Cheaper basses are often made of plywood, and they should be avoided according to my dad (but he is quite picky about his instruments...). Decent basses seldom go for under 15000 sek (about 2000usd)...

r_a_smith3530
February 2nd, 2006, 08:02 PM
I remember reading an article (I can't remember where) that talked of uprights in the $500-$800 (US Dollar) range. Supposedly guys were using these (I forget if they were made of wood or fiberglass), strung with "weedwhacker" string, to play rockabilly music. It sounded truly bizarre!

I do know that good upright basses start in the $2000 price range and go upwards from there. What I'm wondering is if a somewhat decent bass can be had (similar to say, buying a MiM Strat) at half that cost? If so, are there any particular brands to look for, and also any to absolutely stay away from?

Superswede, have you ever gotten to play your dad's axe?

SuperSwede
February 3rd, 2006, 11:22 AM
Yes I have played his bass/es a lot, but I must admit that playing instruments that cost so much money (and are heavy & unstable) is a bit nervous.
He has been retired for over 10 years now so he does not play that much anymore.
I think that you can have a rather good second hand bass for 7-800 usd, but it will be of lower quality than a guitar of the same value.
I will ask my dad about low cost basses when I see him next time...

The G-string
February 11th, 2006, 11:27 AM
I have a half-size upright (I'm a 5'1" chick and can't imagine using a three-quarter). My dad was a wholesaler but had gotten out of the business, however, he had a friend still in the business - - so the guy sold it to us at wholesale, minus a couple trade-ins. It seems like it cost $600 plus the two trade-ins (it's been about 3-4 years). One trade was an old electric Vox bass (which I still kind of wince at -- it didn't have a very good sound, but still, it was what I learned on about 30 years ago and had "the look") and the other was a non-name brand electric guitar. Anyway, I'm not necessarily a "gotta have the name brand" product type of girl - - as long as I can get quality sound. The idea of hauling around something that is worth more than all of my other possessions added together kind of freaks me out. You could also look around for a place that rents instruments. There are usually options to rent-to-own - - so you can be using it while paying on it. Sometimes it'll be a used instrument, but as long as it's in good shape and has a good sound, who cares? I guess I'd say if you're only going to dabble, look around and try to stay around the $2K mark. If you're a serious musician, earning your living through your music, then I can see investing more money. Oh yeah, and at the time I bought mine, I was playing a steady gig, albeit, a dabbling gig, but I was able to write my bass (and some clothes) off at tax time.

r_a_smith3530
February 11th, 2006, 08:03 PM
Yesterday, I stopped in at a local music shop. They had a new bass there, and it was marked at $865.00. Just for giggles, I played with it a bit. First off, it was my first experience with an unfretted instrument, and I amazed myself that I could play the A Major scale with no real difficulty. Second, I'm HOOKED! I want one of these things badly now!

My goal for the year is an upright!!!

SuperSwede
February 12th, 2006, 01:59 AM
Is it a plywood bass?

r_a_smith3530
February 12th, 2006, 10:01 AM
SS, I'm not sure. At that price though, I would assume that it is. I believe that it was an Englehardt. Since yesterday, I've been doing some more research (when I wasn't noodling, of course), and one thing that came out of my research is to check with various schools in my area to see if any are selling their band's bass.

I've also learned that their is a fairly steep learning curve to get good on upright, as your hands and arms are positioned completely different than on an electric or guitar-style acoustic bass.

SuperSwede
February 12th, 2006, 12:25 PM
That was what I was going to suggest, try to get hold of a non-plywood used bass (I have seen a few schools selling instruments lately at bargain prices). I have heard that plywood instruments gets worse over they years as well...

r_a_smith3530
February 12th, 2006, 04:15 PM
SS, do you know what the functional difference is between plywood, and what are being termed as "laminates" on some sites? The general belief is that laminates are better than plywood, but from my limited knowledge of wood, the two terms are almost synonomous. I can understand how a solid top would be better, as it is much more susceptible to pick up the string vibrations than multiple layers of wood with their grain structures placed at ninety degree angles to each other, but the other two confuse me.

Plywood, as originally defined for me was two or more thin layers of wood, laminated together, with their grain structures opposed to increase strength.

Any clarification here would be appreciated.

SuperSwede
February 13th, 2006, 04:24 AM
I dont know so much about wood and laminates either, but what I have heard is that laminated wood (or plywood) expand/shrink differently under hot/cold influence. A solid wood will behave better, and will generally sound better as well, due to their one piece top. Generally solid wood tops are made of better (read: more expensive) materials. A solid top bass also has a higher build quality, since they are often made for demanding orchestra musicians.

I am REALLY not an expert on this, but maybe you have gotten a little more clarification on this subject.

r_a_smith3530
February 14th, 2006, 11:44 AM
SS, here's my limited knowledge on the subject. Forget guitars for a second and just think about wood. Laminated wood (plywood) was first developed for two main reasons, cost and strength. It is cheaper to produce a good, 3/4" thickness panel of wood from thin laminated sections than it is to find a good 3/4" thick, 4x8 foot sheet of solid wood.

Now, multiple layers of wood, with their grain structures opposed at 90 degree angles, are much stronger than a single, like thickness of wood with a single grain structure, so that 4x8 foot sheet of ply is actually more resistant to warpage than a similarly sized piece of solid wood.

So, we have strong wood for cheap bucks. That's a good thing, but it's also a not-so-good thing, especially when it comes to the soundboard of an acoustic instrument (or even the body of a solid-bodied guitar).

Acoustic guitars (and other acoustic stringed instruments) get much of their tone through the sympathetic vibration of the "soundboard" or top. The strings vibrate, and that vibration is passed through the bridge to the soundboard. BTW, if you want to brighten up your acoustic a bit, swap out your bridgepins for a set made of Walrus Ivory or bone. I've heard that there are brass bridgepins out there too, but haven't seen any yet. Of course, a bone nut is a given. Plastic nuts are garbage (Graphtech's Tusq excluded)!

Anyway, strength, or should I say resistance to flex or bending, the very thing that makes plywood popular, is its downfall when it comes to wood for the soundboard of an acoustic instrument. A guitar, with a top made out of plywood, is just not going to be as resonant as one with a top made from a solid piece of wood. The solid wood picks up the nuances of the string's vibration much better, and with much more clarity than does plywood.

OK, we've dealt with the top, but now, how about the back and sides? The back and sides of an acoustic instrument do two things. They give overall strength to the instrument, and they reflect and amplify the sound produced as the string's vibrations are passed through the bridge to the soundboard. Hmm, strength, plywood's strong point (pun fully intended!). Here, plywood can be of an advantage, but there's a catch. The back and sides are going to absorb at least some of the sound being produced. That's not a good thing, and should be kept to a minimum. This is why most guitars feature back and sides made from fairly hard woods. The more dense the material, the less it will absorb, and the more it will reflect. So now, Ovation's secret is out of the bag!

At the onset, I mentioned that plywoods were also not that great for use in solid-bodied guitar construction, and here, when I say plywood, I mean it in the traditional sense. In an electric, solid-bodied instrument, the pickups account for somewhere in the area of 65%-70% of the instrument's tone. The rest is divided up between the body, neck, bridge, and nut (and strings of course). What accounts for the sustain of a Les Paul? Of course, it's that big hunk of Mahogany. The density of the wood accounts for both its weight and its tone. Maple tops have been used by Gibson, both to brighten the sound and to add beauty. A guitar made from plywood is just not going to have the resonant qualties of a solid piece of wood, and for some of the same reasons that an acoustic's top won't! BTW, take a look at a Gibson Tune-O-Matic bridge and stop tailpiece setup. Note that the thick mounting pins for both the bridge and tailpiece pass through the guitar's top, ending up in the Mahogany that makes up the bulk of the body. That's probably why Bigby's never became as popular as the good old fashioned Tune-O-Matic!

Anyway, I'm still no closer to finding out what the difference is when stand-up bass builders talk about laminates vs. plywood. There's a violin shop that opened recently about five-ten miles from my house. Maybe I'll stop in there over the next day or so and ask them. I'll let you all know what I find out.

SuperSwede
February 14th, 2006, 11:47 AM
Do that! It would be interesting to hear what an expert has to say about it!

I am still convinced that you should avoid plywood instruments like the plague...