Mixo-Blues

[Justaguyin_nc]

Anyone,
I been trying to get the mixolydian scale down visually on the whole fretboard..
Well, while I been looking up memory help links (the mind..it just does not want to remember sometimes)
and trying to grasp mixolydian visually on a fretboard I ran into a scale called Mixo-blues...Hybrid?
which, I guess due to the fact I now know the blues scales and pentatonics it was easier to add
to what I know... now 7 notes instead of 5 to 6.. (more for me to error on lol)

Question:
I also read (I read to much).. that SRV liked using Mixo-Blues.. R b3 3 4 b5 5 b7
Ofcourse no-one actually points out how and where, that I found.. or picked out listening in "my" ears.
Link showing the scale: http://jguitar.com/scale?root=A&scale=Mixo-Blues&fret=5&labels=letter&notes=flats
Anyone have some good examples of this scale that are clearly heard?
I like the sound on the 5 notes in a row per string some of the time..
I guess any scale added..is another tool..
This one just visually jumped out to learn the total fretboard at once again.
Ofcourse.. knowing the notes within the scale.. I still mess that up..
but at least I know which frets not to hit..umm 95% of the time.

[guitartist]

The mixolydian mode is one of my favorites to play in, and I often mix it with the pentatonic minor. Learning it definitely improved my playing a lot.

The Beatles used the mixolydian a good bit (Norwegian Wood, She Said She Said, Taxman, etc). The Stones' "sympathy for the Devil" is mostly in mixolydian with some pentatonic in it, as is Cream's "I Feel Free". BB King plays in the mixolydian mode a lot too.

The mixo-blues is essential too for playing acoustic country blues-style licks, such as Lightnin' Hopkins, Son House, etc.

And the mixolydian works great for jazz, when you add a raised 7th to the mixolydian, you get the dominant bebop scale.

[BJunior]

I've been callin that the blues scale forever..

[Justaguyin_nc]

I think thats my problem..
they are all so similar..
and explained so many different ways on the net.
Say in the key of A.. or any I guess.. I got these listed correctly?
Mixolydian - R,2,4,5,b7,7 flated 7th
Minor Pentatonic - R,3,4,5,7 no flats
What I thought is regular Blues - R,3,4,b5,5,7 flated 5th
Blues Version 3 - R,3,b4,4,b5,5,b7,7,bR flated R, 5th, 7th
Mixo-Blues - R,b3,3,4,b5,5,b7 flated 3rd,5th and 7th
For some reason.. "looking" at the fretboard...
Minor Penatonic, Regular Blues and the Mixo-blues just seem to jump out in the design layout overall..
just me... found it interesting though.. and has a different voicing for sure..
I guess dropping the 3rd and picking up the 2nd is my hangup mentally on learning Mixolydian..
umm..at least one of'em..

Guitarist.. thanks alot on the songs using these.. all favorites..
might mean why these scales sound familar with out actually knowing why. (did that make sense?)
:)

[guitartist]

One way to think of the mixolydian is a mix of the blues and country scales.

If you take the minor pentatonic (the blues scale) and add the country scale to it (which is the same fingering pattern as the blues scale, its just moved down 3 frets in relation to the root), you have the mixolydian. I've seen it called the rock scale in some books.

[BJunior]

I found it just easy to learn the 5 basic shapes of the Blues Scale. How there connected and what chord there based on extremely easy....

After that then working on the components of the scale is a no brainer..

[Justaguyin_nc]

I found it just easy to learn the 5 basic shapes of the Blues Scale. How there connected and what chord there based on extremely easy....

After that then working on the components of the scale is a no brainer..

Which one is the blues scale to you Bjunior? from the group above.. it's those small additions and subtraction of the flats I guess that makes the different scales.. although they are all blues...

Soo.. was saying.. I knew a few and Mixo-blues was a nice addition.
Some of us (me) are slow...:) it's not as easy as it seems to go from one scale to another... but I progress

Guitarist... that was way to much info..lol

The first part on songs related to Mixo-Blues helped.. the response adding country scale threw me off... mainly... type country scale in yahoo or google.. it usually comes back with threads about there is no such thing as a country scale.. and that's when us (me) new guys get confused being internet taught.. we can only go by what we can read..:(

So I looked up Mixyolian.. and pentatonic and blues scale mixed together.. slid down 3 .. and they didnt match up.. went by the link in first thread here.. there is when most things fall apart.. not having a visual that aligns..

but, again..
I think just adding Mixo-Blues for now got me half way there..

[guitartist]

So I looked up Mixyolian.. and pentatonic and blues scale mixed together.. slid down 3 .. and they didnt match up.. went by the link in first thread here.. there is when most things fall apart.. not having a visual that aligns..

but, again..
I think just adding Mixo-Blues for now got me half way there..

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse ya! I'm not a teacher and not so good at explaining things, I guess.

The country scale can be found inside the mixolydian mode. Say you are in the key of A...in the pentatonic minor (blues) scale, your root is the fifth fret. If you want to play the country scale in the key of A, you just slide the fingering pattern down three frets...the root is still the fifth fret A, but the finger pattern in relation to the root is down three frets. The country scale is a five note scale of notes which are all part of the mixolydian mode, just as the pentatonic minor is also.

Hope this doesn't confuse ya any more - probably best for ya just to concentrate on one thing at a time for now anyway. Good luck and have fun!

[Robert]

I don't quite understand the question Justa. From what I can see in your first post, this isn't a scale per se; it is the blues scale with an added major 3rd.

You can often create cool bluesy sounds by using both the minor AND the major third when you play over a chord vamp, or over a blues progression. I do this often when I improvise.

[Justaguyin_nc]

I don't quite understand the question Justa. From what I can see in your first post, this isn't a scale per se; it is the blues scale with an added major 3rd.

You can often create cool bluesy sounds by using both the minor AND the major third when you play over a chord vamp, or over a blues progression. I do this often when I improvise.

Well Robert, did you try that link? Apparently they are scales.. Thats what us (me) newbies look at... and there are 5 blues scales.. one of which is a Mix of Myxolian and the original Blues scale.. As you can see..the scale patterns range from 5 note pentatonic to 9 notes in the V3 of blues scale..

My question was who and how did they be used...guitarist answered it for me pretty well.. then confused me with country scales..lol...

You guys playing for years..don't realize how confusing this stuff is just adding in one more note to a scale yet alone 3 new ones..:)

[Robert]

Awright then. What most people would think of when you use the Blues scale - it has R, b3, 4, b5, 5, 7, R - that's the one. You can always add notes here and there for variation. For example, try removing the perfect 5 for a nice sound - go for the b5 instead. Another thing I often do when improvising.

My advice - follow your ears more than anything else. If it sounds good it is good, no matter what name(s) we try to attribute to it.

[Justaguyin_nc]

Awright then. What most people would think of when you use the Blues scale - it has R, b3, 4, b5, 5, 7, R - that's the one. You can always add notes here and there for variation. For example, try removing the perfect 5 for a nice sound - go for the b5 instead. Another thing I often do when improvising.

My advice - follow your ears more than anything else. If it sounds good it is good, no matter what name(s) we try to attribute to it.

Thanks Robert.. Follow your ears is the best advice...
You just added another to my list as far as scales go..lol

Mixolydian - R,2,4,5,b7,7 flated 7th
Minor Pentatonic - R,3,4,5,7 no flats
What I thought is regular Blues - R,3,4,b5,5,7 flated 5th

Renman Blues - R,b3,4,b5,5,7 flatted 3rd and 5th.. (that might be one on the calculater under blues V1 or V2 to be honest)

Blues Version 3 - R,3,b4,4,b5,5,b7,7,bR flated R, 5th, 7th
Mixo-Blues - R,b3,3,4,b5,5,b7 flated 3rd,5th and 7th

To be a newbie...is sooooo hard...:)

sorry for the confusion.. can only ask of what I read and know.. Mixo-Blues exists compared to the net..

[Robert]

I recommend you focus on the 7 Diatonic scales first. Go into alternative funky scales later, or you might get neck injuries from that head spinning LOL :D!!

By the way, the Mixolydian scale has no major 7, it has the minor 7 (b7).

[Justaguyin_nc]

By the way, the Mixolydian scale has no major 7, it has the minor 7 (b7).

Well, maybe you hit on another thing.. maybe the calculater showing me all this is screwy or I read it wrong... ya know I am a newbie!!

http://jguitar.com/scale?root=A&scale=Mixolydian&fret=5&labels=letter&notes=flats

shows the full scale.. as this..
Mixolydian:

say in key of A

A,B,D,E,bG,G so I am thinking it says
R,2,4,5,b7,7

is this a newbie error in reading the positions or a calculater error in naming?

Please take the time to look at the calculater before you write me off as totally blimmie..

and yes..this does spin a newbies head.. alot.. but at least we keep trying to learn what lessons we can.

Pssst.... also try that pulldown there.. and see all those scale names I been mentioning and SPINNING on over the months...sigh

[marnold]

All of the diatonic scales have seven notes in them. Mixolydian is 1,2,3,4,5,6,b7. In other words, it's the major/Ionian scale with a flatted seventh. To hear it, go to your piano and play the white keys from C-to-C except play Bb instead of B.

The "blues scale" is 1,b3,4,b5,5,b7 (aka the minor pentatonic plus the b5 "evil" note). So basically combining the two scales, you would end up with: 1,2,b3,3,4,b5,5,6,b7 (the Mixolydian plus the b3 and b5).

My guess would be that when they talk about blues players playing this hybrid scale, they are in fact playing a combination of the major and minor pentatonic. That is quite common and there is a write-up about that on p. 119f of the September Guitar World (with EVH on the cover).

The major pentatonic is 1,2,3,5,6 and the minor pentatonic is 1,b3,4,5,b7. Put the two together and you have 1,2,b3,3,4,5,6,b7 (the careful reader will note that if you add the b5 of the "blues" scale you get the same thing as the Mixolydian/blues combo). If you focus more on the b3, it will have a more minor tonality. If you focus more on the 3, it will have a more major tonality.

Realize that most old blues players wouldn't have known a Mixolydian scale if it came up and bit them in the arse. They played what sounded good to them. What is traditionally known as "the B.B. King box" is neither major nor minor (no third). He'll throw in the 3 (if he's feeling happy) or the b3 (if he isn't) and the b5 to make sure it's bluesy.

I've only found this information to be helpful inasmuch as when I'm trying to figure out a solo by ear, I understand what the heck they were trying to do. If I try to put the notes into a scale, it doesn't work. If I realize they're combining the two, it makes sense and my brain won't melt.

[Robert]

The last note would the the 8 - the octave (A). Not the major 7, as that would imply a G#, which does not exist in the A Mixolydian scale.

[Justaguyin_nc]

Well, thanks anyways Robert.. I can't grasp what your saying.. Just needed to know about the calculater site at this point or if I was reading it wrong...

in any case...guitarist answered the original question long ago and I will just go with that and believe there is a Mixo-Blues as nothing points me in another direction... appreciate the time you took to look at the calculater site...

thank you
Justa

[Robert]

Where are you getting your interval numbers from?


A,B,D,E,bG,G so I am thinking it says
R,2,4,5,b7,7

The calculator seems correct. There is no G# in that scale, that's all I meant.

[Justaguyin_nc]

Where are you getting your interval numbers from?



The calculator seems correct. There is no G# in that scale, that's all I meant.

I don't "SEE" where I put a G# so I am totally confused... I put a Flated G and G..

its ok..I need a break.. I will just go with it... if it sounds good and believe the calculater works..

[Robert]

The calculator works, I just don't understand the numbers you wrote down. I didn't see the note Db either. The notes for A Mixolydian are:
A, B, Db/C#, D, E, F#/Gb, G

Db and C# is the same note, same thing with F# and Gb.

[Justaguyin_nc]

lol, ok ok robert I give.. I missed bD altogether... it's cool..no problem.. you are just way to advanced to understand my stupidity.. and I am way to stupid to understand how this thread got off into this..lol..

I just wanted to comment on Mixo-Blues... and was happy that I learned yet another scale..which is just an additional note or two on a previous scale.. which boils down they all are.. and wanted to understand what songs played a mix of the two scales that people other than yourself call Mixo-Blues..

"GUITARIST" a user has answered the question and thats all I needed...thanks..

Mixyolian
A=R , B=2, bD=b4 (missed this one in typing once mind left) , D=4, E=5, bG=B7, and I assumed G=7 .... I dunno anything about G#...lol

Heck, basicly I will admit I dont know anything about anything.. but I am trying to.


Oh Marnold...that was a pretty good explanation..thank you also.


final note:
Oh I do know the chromatic scale on the whole fret board!! umm but by sight only not notes..lol...:) (yes that was being a smart arse)

[BJunior]

Which one is the blues scale to you Bjunior? from the group above.. it's those small additions and subtraction of the flats I guess that makes the different scales.. although they are all blues...



I have a jpg image of what I'm trying to explain, but can't seem to get it attached to a post... can anyone help me???

[Tim]

This is a good thread Fretters. I am going to print all of these out and re-read them several times. So far I am still learning the blues scale (and the pattern before and behind), and the minor and major pentatonic (and the pattern before and behind each of those). For some reason I do not follow the seven modes (mixolydian and the other six). I know they are different, but I do not understand why.

BJunor - When your adding to the thread (before submitting) slide down to "Additional Options" and see "Attach Files" section. You are limited on size. Hope this helps.

[BJunior]

Okay, here goes...

This is the E shape blues scale based on the CAGED system. It should look pretty familiar to most everyone.... It's just 1 of the 5 basic shapes that all connect... I have the others somewhere around here in jpg format if anyone is interested.... as well as the 5 major scale forms that there built on...

enjoy...

[Justaguyin_nc]

Okay, here goes...

This is the E shape blues scale based on the CAGED system. It should look pretty familiar to most everyone.... It's just 1 of the 5 basic shapes that all connect... I have the others somewhere around here in jpg format if anyone is interested.... as well as the 5 major scale forms that there built on...

enjoy...

Yep...thats the basic blues scale from what I been shown too... a minor penatonic and the blue note... the mixo-blues has a bit more.. so does blues V3.... "names" sheesh... I didn't start them..lol

I think the biggest learning curve while not sitting with a teacher, and learning from so many teachers on the net is the fact the teachers don't realize the things we find on the net to teach us...lol that make sense?

My biggest problem... believe what I read on guitar sites as the real names..
I guess I been using that Jguitar.com calculater from near the beginning for myself.

Pulling down the scale box opens up soooooo many scales and I would assume they are there because they are scales. I want to learn Blues scales and varience...there they are..

Robert and many other very well taught guitarists know the basic blues scale above that your showing and then know all the others are just added notes over the top of this...and know which.. added 3rd added 5th throw in a 9th.. And I guess some such as Robert didn't realize people are "naming" these scales "per se"... which makes a newbie (me) even seem more of an idiot trying to explain them. lol, I guess if someone went back to the beginning and tried to explain the "blues" scale to those guys.. well.. :rolleyes:

Someone decided to start "naming" these... and for us "young" in learning it's probably a better thing.. I can understand Blues, Blues V3, Mixo-blues much better then Blues scale-add the 3rd, blues scale add a major.. etc etc... I am not saying it's right or wrong..it's just eaiser to associate for me and apparently others.

I wish I knew all 7 diatonics.. I am at this level, content knowing pentatonics and some of the "variations" to the blues scale.. Mixo-blues was/is one of these and I still think it's one to learn for us (me) newbies for a different voicing.


thanks all that chimmed in... special thanks to Robert.. for letting me try to understand.. l know you know your sheeeeet!!!

Extra thanks to Guitarist... well, because you heard of Mixo-Blues..lol

[marnold]

Remember that while there is a great, big music theory world out there, it doesn't mean that you have to know it all or even know it all Right Now. For those new to soloing (guilty as charged!) I would suggest sticking with something like the minor pentatonic or blues scale. Keep it simple. If you're more of a headbanger, concentrate on the Aeolian/minor scale.

Once you get bored with that (ha!) you can try other things. For example, headbangers (or flamenco fans) can look into the Phrygian or the Dorian. Remember that the reason why many great guitarists try these new things and go on the more exotic sounding modes is because they've been playing professionally for years and have beaten the pentatonics to death. Steve Vai did not become Steve Vai in a month. Neither will you, nor do you have to.

I guess the only big theory thing I'd plug is what I mentioned before. When I was playing bass, I learned a pattern for A minor, A major, A Phrygian, A Locrian, etc. I did that because I had this big old book of patterns, but it never taught the theory behind them. What a waste of time! Learn ONE set of five patterns and move them as needed.

Remember, this is supposed to be fun, right?

[marnold]

Just to resurrect this thread for a moment: I just got my new issue of Guitar World. In the "Soloing Strategies" column, Tom Kolb looks at the Mixolydian mode and basically shows blues players how to apply it.

[kiteman]

I'm with marnold and I want to suggest something.

There's a lot of confusions going on and someone hasn't got the basics covered. Everything came from a major scale so I'm going to talk major scale.

To learn a guitar is to simplify it. Learning chords, scales, patterns, and what-have-yous are parts of learning a guitar but do you know how or why?

The most important thing about the guitar is that it's in tune everytime you play it. It's a must, you're training your ears. Now pick a key you want to learn in. I'd pick A major because I'm on the fifth fret so I can go either way. Look at the CAGED system. This system introduces you to the five major chord shapes (C A G E D get it?) Each of the chord shape will have triads, scales, pentatonics, inversions, and modes associated to it. Learn it in a key and only in that key. Stay with that key. Work with it and it'll makes a lot of senses because they are connected.

When I first looked up the caged system it was like a slap in my face because everything's just fall in places so now I know why and I know how. First thing I learned was that I can play 5 C, A, G, E, and D major chords on the fretboard so finding where to play it became easier because of knowing about the 5 chord shapes. The next thing I learned was the pentatonic scales using this system. 5 patterns it is and all connected so I'm all over the fretboard using just 5 notes and what a blast.

As I work with it more the more I learned and more I can play my guitar as I don't have perfect hearing. All that stuff is basic, just basic.

After that then I learned how to alter 'em. I also learned that repetitions helps a lot. :)