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View Full Version : Classic Player series. Does Fender lie?



elavd
September 16th, 2007, 05:23 AM
I bought a couple of weeks ago a Classic Player 60s strat, which (is supposed to) have the Custom Shop 69 pickups.

As far as I know, these pickups are "created, dated, and initialed by Abigail Ybarra"...

I had a set of them in the past which had the initials of her etc, and a dark gray bobbin:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/CS69.jpg


BUT today I took of the pickguard of my CP60s, and besides that the pickups didn't have the CS sticker, the initials of Abigail, etc the bobbin had a pale gray color...

I've read somewhere from other CP60s owners that the first models DID have signed and dated CS69 pickups...

So this made me think:

1) Either Fender lies to its customers, by not puting anymore original CS69 pickups in the Classic Player 60s series. It's not the first time that they do it as you all know: at first, they advertised that the CP strat series had full size STEEL block, which was not true...

OR

2) They decided to put some kind of "bulk" CS69 pickups, (maybe not "aproved" by Abigail), in order to reduce the cost of the production...



What's your opinion?

Robert
September 16th, 2007, 08:25 AM
I think you should ask Fender directly.

elavd
September 16th, 2007, 09:03 AM
I think you should ask Fender directly.

I've sent them an email... Let's hope that someone will answer ...:rolleyes:

tunghaichuan
September 16th, 2007, 11:02 AM
Did you buy it at a shop or from an individual? Was it brand new or "pre-owned?"

Is it possible that the pickups were swapped out?

tung

elavd
September 16th, 2007, 11:04 AM
It was BRAND new...

I've just noticed that Fender CHANGED the description on the specs:

Correct me if I am wrong, but the specs used to mention "Custom Shop 69 Pickups", while now it mentions "Custom 69 pickups" ...http://www.tdpri.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.tdpri.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif

warren0728
September 16th, 2007, 11:45 AM
[QUOTE=elavd]he specs used to mention "Custom Shop 69 Pickups", while now it mentions "Custom 69 pickups" one small word...one large change of specs...

the guys at fender-talk http://www.fender-talk.com/message-board-forum/ might have an answer for you too...

ww

marnold
September 16th, 2007, 11:45 AM
Check the FDP Forum (http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html) on this. If memory serves, there was a big thread on this very subject. I believe it was in the "Pup Tent" forum.

Plank_Spanker
September 16th, 2007, 03:47 PM
Well.........................

How does the guitar sound? Are you happy with the sound? Did you buy the guitar for the cachet?

Not to be an evil devil's advocate, but those are very important points........

elavd
September 16th, 2007, 03:55 PM
Well.........................

How does the guitar sound? Are you happy with the sound? Did you buy the guitar for the cachet?

The guitar sounds very good, but this can't make me stop wondering why Fender constantly changes the specs of their guitars in http://www.thefret.net/images/icons/icon6.giforder to save some bucks.

And to answer the other question: YES the cs69 pickups was one of the main reasons that I bought this guitar and I'd like to know if I play with CS69s or a similar set.

Besides that, the A.Y." initials (either we like it or not) increase the value of the pickups in case someone wants to sell them...

Plank_Spanker
September 16th, 2007, 04:24 PM
OK..............that's cool, and no slam intended on you, man.. I guess my aim is that if the guitar sounds great, then hang onto it, regardless of how the pedigree works out on the pickups.

I'm simple like that. :D

abraxas
September 17th, 2007, 01:21 AM
Not to be an evil devil's advocate, but those are very important points........


No my friend, sorry, they are not.

I totally believe on your good intentions and, out of context, you are right.

But what Elias exposes here is, IMHO, an unethical business practice on the part of Fender.

As someone wrote on another forum, Fender is just a horrible company, that happens to make some good instruments.

stingx
September 17th, 2007, 12:33 PM
No my friend, sorry, they are not.

I totally believe on your good intentions and, out of context, you are right.

But what Elias exposes here is, IMHO, an unethical business practice on the part of Fender.

As someone wrote on another forum, Fender is just a horrible company, that happens to make some good instruments.

What someone wrote on another forum is just another person's opinion.

TS808
September 17th, 2007, 01:31 PM
My thoughts on this are somewhere in the middle....whereas Fender may have cut some corners by changing the pickups, in my opinion, they are still one of the best values out there in production guitars. Look at what people are paying for Gibsons and PRS Guitars...to me, that is an outrage.

My thought is as follows: if you bought the guitar from a well known retailer, or even a small retailer, they should know what they are selling. Also, they have the responsibility to UPDATE their websites, or store labels to reflect the changes in product.

Fender may have changed the specs, but I think the retailers more than likely were made aware of the change, or at the very least, should know of the updates. Maybe I'm wrong, with my opinion, but many times when I've purchased a guitar or amp, whether online or at a store, I've corrected the salesperson about the specs of a guitar or amp.

Surprisingly, alot of salespeople, whether online or at the stores, have no clue whatsoever what they are selling their customers. On a number of occasions I've either called or been in a store asking about a product, and the sales staff, including the managers, don't even know that a number of these products are even being made.

abraxas
September 17th, 2007, 01:41 PM
What someone wrote on another forum is just another person's opinion.

... which just happens to mirror mine exactly. I can't see how it can get any clearer than that.

Robert
September 17th, 2007, 01:41 PM
Let's not jump to conclusions - as far as I understand, we don't know yet if the pickups are the real CS 69's or not, correct? Could be Abigail stopped writing her signatures, or some other reason,etc? Let's see what elavd finds out from Fender.

Jampy
September 17th, 2007, 01:47 PM
Specifications to change at any time without notice, did anyone happen to see that on the site in little tiny print ?

I have not looked myself but many makers or many things tend to have that line printed somewhere to cover there butts..

Sorry to hear you got slightly cheated:reallymad:

Tone2TheBone
September 17th, 2007, 01:48 PM
I wonder if Lev's pickups are Abbys or not. Are they Lev?

abraxas
September 17th, 2007, 02:02 PM
Specifications to change at any time without notice, did anyone happen to see that on the site in little tiny print ?

Yeah, that happens when you let lawyers run the World.

Which just reminds me, I was re-watching some episode of the tv-series "Angel", does anybody remember this? There is in it this law firm... run by sinister demons from Hell. :D

Anyway, as I said, this kind of business contact can be characterized as "unethical" (in my own code of ethics, that is), certainly not illegal.

Finally let me ask you all a question. We are talking about a medium price guitar here... would you feel the same if Fender started switching around things on their most expensive CS instruments? Can Fender be trusted?

(Just to be clear about it, I would never buy a Fender anyway, so this is all theoretical to me. There are far better guitars out there to spend my hard earned money).

elavd
September 18th, 2007, 01:21 AM
Abraxas I agree with your point. This "slight" changes Fender makes are not illegal but to my point of view are unethical...

This tactic from the company (constantly changing its specs without informing anyone), reminds me the similar tactics of the Pigs in George Orwell's "Animal Farm", if you know what I mean...:cool:



Let's see what elavd finds out from Fender.

I have no response from them up to now...

Let me ask you one thing:

If I unsolder the pickups and use a digital multimeter, I guess that I will find out the resistance of each pickup.
How accurate is to compare these values to those of an original set of CS69s?

Lev
September 18th, 2007, 03:08 AM
I wonder if Lev's pickups are Abbys or not. Are they Lev?

I've not checked yet. I need to change strings this week so I'll do a full clean and take a look under the hood. For me I don't think it'll matter too much because I love the guitar for what it is, a great sounding, looking and playing guitar.

I'm not sure if Fender is acting unethically in this case, if Fender put inferior pickups in the guitar and got someone in the factory to put A.B. and a date on the back then that is unethical. And to be fair it would be very easy to do!

I think Fender has been caught off guard with the popularity of this instrument, I'm sure Abigail cannot possibly continue to oversee/hand wind each pickup that goes into the CP60's as well as fulfilling other orders for
CS69's. Therefore Fender has obviously changed their manufacturing process to cope with the demand. And they did in my opinion the 'ethical' thing by modifiying the spec on their website to reflect this (if they said nothing would anyone be the wiser?). So for me it's up to the retailer to keep up to date with spec changes and inform the customer. This comes back to the whole argument about how guitars are now sold out of massive warehouses rather than by friendly knowlegable people in your music store.

They key question here is are these Custom 69's inferior in quality or tone to the CS '69's? If so then Fender should at least be dropping the price a little to reflect this. If however these PUP's are identical in design and specification and are not available in any other production model outside the Custom Shop then I don't really have an issue with it.

I'll let you know what I find under the hood but either way I won't be putting the guitar on eBay. :)

Lev
September 18th, 2007, 03:21 AM
Looks like they may have just dropped the word 'shop' from the name of these pickups across the board.....

http://www.fender.com.au/spa/images/pickups/69strat.jpg

duhvoodooman
September 18th, 2007, 05:23 AM
While I think it's completely appropriate to question Fender's business practices here, I would ask that posters stay away from broad and unjustified personal statements, such as implying that lawyers are evil. There are, of course, many lawyers who are admirable people, just as there are (for example) clergymen who are scum. It's the human condition--we come in all types, good, bad and (mostly!) in between.

It's a testament to this forum that we have both lawyers and clergymen here, and all of them seem to be great people! :AOK:

abraxas
September 18th, 2007, 06:26 AM
While I think it's completely appropriate to question Fender's business practices here, I would ask that posters stay away from broad and unjustified personal statements, such as implying that lawyers are evil. There are, of course, many lawyers who are admirable people, just as there are (for example) clergymen who are scum. It's the human condition--we come in all types, good, bad and (mostly!) in between.

It's a testament to this forum that we have both lawyers and clergymen here, and all of them seem to be great people! :AOK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor

Thank you. :D

Tone2TheBone
September 18th, 2007, 09:45 AM
This is getting interesting....

duhvoodooman
September 18th, 2007, 09:45 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor

Thank you. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

You're welcome.

warren0728
September 18th, 2007, 10:00 AM
This is getting interesting....
yep.... :munch:

ww

elavd
September 18th, 2007, 10:15 AM
I've just received an email from the Greek dealer of Fender!

Fender contacted the Greek dealer in order to solve the problem. So, a guy from the Greek dealer contacted me and told me that acoording to their records, the guitar didn't come to Greece through them (which is right, as I bought the guitar from Germany online)

He also told me that indeed it's a strange thing, and that I should contact Thomann (the online store that sold me the guitar) and ask them about this issue...

So I've just email Thomann and wait for their official answer...:cool:

Plank_Spanker
September 18th, 2007, 02:49 PM
yep.... :munch:

ww

Just a tad "testy"........................:pancake

warren0728
September 18th, 2007, 03:28 PM
Just a tad "testy".........
definitely...i've got my popcorn and beverage and am just watching the show! :munch:

ww

abraxas
September 19th, 2007, 01:33 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

You're welcome.

[off topic]
duhvoodooman let me ask you: are you a lawyer? And if so, do you have anything to do with stereotypes as those depicted in movies and novels?

I’m a computer programmer. The most common stereotype about programmers and IT people in general, is that they are pencil-neck geeks with no social life whatsoever. Would you be surprised to find out that I’m the exact opposite to this?

Stereotypes and hyperbole are common in art. As they are in everyday life, esp. if you are trying to humor things. Now, there is that word again: humor! :D

duhvoodooman, your politically correct attitude starts to worry me. Following your suggestions, movies like “The Devil’s Advocate” should be illegal. In that case, I suggest we censor every movie featuring a geek computer programmer. :Dude:
[/off topic]

[on topic]
It’s almost certain someone messed things up royally with this guitar. I don’t believe it is some middle man (e.g. the German dealer). Fender has exhibited similar behavior in the past.

Let me remind you about the Highway series. When they first came out, they were described as a “limited” series, they had 2 piece bodies and much attention to detail. Less than a year later, Highways had 4-5 piece bodies and quality comparable to the average Mexican Fender of the time.

Bottom line: I wouldn’t trust them. YMMV and probably will. :)
[/on topic]

Jimi75
September 19th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Okay folks,

Here is my experience after working several years for Fender.

To my understanding Abigail is a custom wirer, she did some custom shop sets personally and indeed there was a very limited and expensive series that had HER pick ups with her initials and the CS sticker, but definitely this was not in the Classic series.

What Fender did was that they did a serial production and they took Abigail's wired pick up as a model after which specification they built the new pick up.

Quationing Fenders business strategies and behaviour is sheer unfair. Fender is not interested in telling lies and push customers away. They just built great guitars and they never pretend - means that when you read the specifications on a Fender guitar and you buy it it is exactly like that. Everything else and any further error is an error of the dealer and not Fender itself.

Lev
September 19th, 2007, 04:24 AM
Okay folks,

Here is my experience after working several years for Fender.

To my understanding Abigail is a custom wirer, she did some custom shop sets personally and indeed there was a very limited and expensive series that had HER pick ups with her initials and the CS sticker, but definitely this was not in the Classic series.

What Fender did was that they did a serial production and they took Abigail's wired pick up as a model after which specification they built the new pick up.

Quationing Fenders business strategies and behaviour is sheer unfair. Fender is not interested in telling lies and push customers away. They just built great guitars and they never pretend - means that when you read the specifications on a Fender guitar and you buy it it is exactly like that. Everything else and any further error is an error of the dealer and not Fender itself.

Jimi, you are totally correct but I think the confusion comes from the fact that the first run of CP60's guitars did indeed have signed pickups installed. That's why I think that with the volume of sales of these guitars Fender couldn't continue to supply actual Abigail signed/wired pickups. Hence they now have the same specification pickup (we think) but without the signed and dated 'A.B.'

Jimi75
September 19th, 2007, 04:52 AM
Jimi, you are totally correct but I think the confusion comes from the fact that the first run of CP60's guitars did indeed have signed pickups installed. That's why I think that with the volume of sales of these guitars Fender couldn't continue to supply actual Abigail signed/wired pickups. Hence they now have the same specification pickup (we think) but without the signed and dated 'A.B.'

Hello Lev, it is indeed the same specification.
As I am not 100% sure about the how the first run of the Classic Player Strat was equipped, I can not confirm this. I asked an old colleague of mine over at Fender and he doubts , too that Abigail's sigs were installed.

Generally, I do not care much about which name is on a product, I let my ears decide and for sure the Fender pick ups are brilliant with or without Abigails initials.

duhvoodooman
September 19th, 2007, 05:27 AM
[off topic]
duhvoodooman let me ask you: are you a lawyer? And if so, do you have anything to do with stereotypes as those depicted in movies and novels?

I’m a computer programmer. The most common stereotype about programmers and IT people in general, is that they are pencil-neck geeks with no social life whatsoever. Would you be surprised to find out that I’m the exact opposite to this?

Stereotypes and hyperbole are common in art. As they are in everyday life, esp. if you are trying to humor things. Now, there is that word again: humor! :D

duhvoodooman, your politically correct attitude starts to worry me. Following your suggestions, movies like “The Devil’s Advocate” should be illegal. In that case, I suggest we censor every movie featuring a geek computer programmer. :Dude:
[/off topic]
Last comment on this, and then we should probably stop :deadhorse:

No, I'm not a lawyer, have nothing to do with the legal profession, and have no family members or close friends who are lawyers. Also, anyone who knows me well will tell you that the lack of a sense of humor is not one of my (many) faults.

Your comments re: lawyers, though intended humorously, were (IMO) quite pointed and potentially hurtful to a couple of our members who are lawyers. Robert's forum guidelines (http://www.thefret.net/faq.php) contain the following statement:


"Any communication that is likely to be taken as an attempt to humiliate, embarrass, harass, threaten or belittle another member is considered a violation of these guidelines."

While I certainly don't believe that was your intent, note that the above statement says nothing about intent, but rather how the communication "is likely to be taken". And it seemed to me that a lawyer might take those comments rather badly. Since I take my forum moderator responsibilities here seriously, I felt it was appropriate to comment on this.

Lastly, I think extrapolating that a request to be sensitive to the feelings of other forums members constitutes tacit support for movie censorship is, well....a wee bit of a stretch, logically speaking.

DVM over and out.

** CLICK **

sunvalleylaw
September 19th, 2007, 09:07 AM
DVM, thanks for sticking up for me. I appreciate it. I have stayed out of this because I am a member of the "suspect class". Hey, guys, we are all friends here and I am not offended. Abraxas, generally speaking, I am not deeply offended by lawyer jokes. Too many of them out there to be offended. But I am not very much amused most of the time either. Again, just heard too many of them, and the humor is often mean spirited, which is not my favorite type of humor. Don't get me wrong, there are funny lawyer jokes and I can take a joke. Just most aren't that witty.

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the role of a lawyer in United States society, and if someone really believes that all lawyers are ruining the world, that would bother me. (EDIT: I re-read the comment, It really says "Yeah, that happens when you let lawyers run the World.") I also understand why the jokes happen, and sympathise with those that feel they have been abused by lawyers in some way. I didn't really take the comment we are talking about like that, but I didn't necessarily care for the comment either, partly because the comment helps to perpetuate a mis-statement. I was not going to comment, but because DVM has so valiantly stuck to his guns, I thought it unfair to leave him twisting out there without comment. Not a big deal, and certainly not worth any censorship, but I do appreciate DVM's support. I don't think anyone intended offense, and I do not feel offended. Might be nice to move on though. :) :beer:


As to the topic at hand, I do not know enough about the facts to comment and would defer to people that know more like Jimi75, or direct contact with Fender.

elavd
September 19th, 2007, 09:43 AM
BACK TO THE TOPIC GUYS!!!



Let me put it this way to you...

Even if the pickups on my guitar have the same specs with the 'A.Y'-ones, even if they sound exactly as them or even better, you have to admit that:

The fact that Fender advertises the CP60 models as 'equipped with Custom 69 pickups" is MISLEADING.

For example, how would you feel if you discovered by chance that one device of your laptop was not exactly the one that you thought when you bought it.
Even if it worked perfectly, I think that you would have the feeling of being cheated...

Just simple as that...

stingx
September 19th, 2007, 10:04 AM
http://www.njxriders.com/forum/html/emoticons/gives.gif

Instead of making a thread here, perhaps it would have been better to directly deal with email to Fender. You could have even pursued dedicated Fender forums that have Fender employees that would answer this question. Chris Greene's Fender Forum and thefenderforum.com are two such sites.

This thread's sole purpose seems to be for bashing lawyers and Fender, in general. Personally, I view Fender no differently than any other company. I've had products I've liked and disliked. I don't go on forums *****ing about these products. I've dealt with the vendor or manufacturer in those instances and that's how I got satisfaction.

elavd
September 19th, 2007, 10:10 AM
http://www.njxriders.com/forum/html/emoticons/gives.gif

Instead of making a thread here, perhaps it would have been better to directly deal with email to Fender. You could have even pursued dedicated Fender forums that have Fender employees that would answer this question. Chris Greene's Fender Forum and thefenderforum.com are two such sites.

This thread's sole purpose seems to be for bashing lawyers and Fender, in general. Personally, I view Fender no differently than any other company. I've had products I've liked and disliked. I don't go on forums *****ing about these products. I've dealt with the vendor or manufacturer in those instances and that's how I got satisfaction.


According to that opinion, we shouldn't talk about anything concering guitars here...
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

OK guys. I got it!!!

Sorry for taking your precious time, by making you read irrelevant threads... It won't happen again....

Lets talk about cars!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:


PS: By the way, if you read closely to my threads, you'd see that I have ALREADY emailed Fender

ted s
September 19th, 2007, 10:38 AM
Stinger ALWAYS has the best smilies.

abraxas
September 19th, 2007, 11:33 AM
DVM, thanks for sticking up for me. I appreciate it. I have stayed out of this because I am a member of the "suspect class". Hey, guys, we are all friends here and I am not offended. Abraxas, generally speaking, I am not deeply offended by lawyer jokes. Too many of them out there to be offended. But I am not very much amused most of the time either. Again, just heard too many of them, and the humor is often mean spirited, which is not my favorite type of humor. Don't get me wrong, there are funny lawyer jokes and I can take a joke. Just most aren't that witty.

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the role of a lawyer in United States society, and if someone really believes that all lawyers are ruining the world, that would bother me. (EDIT: I re-read the comment, It really says "Yeah, that happens when you let lawyers run the World.") I also understand why the jokes happen, and sympathise with those that feel they have been abused by lawyers in some way. I didn't really take the comment we are talking about like that, but I didn't necessarily care for the comment either, partly because the comment helps to perpetuate a mis-statement. I was not going to comment, but because DVM has so valiantly stuck to his guns, I thought it unfair to leave him twisting out there without comment. Not a big deal, and certainly not worth any censorship, but I do appreciate DVM's support. I don't think anyone intended offense, and I do not feel offended. Might be nice to move on though. :) :beer:


As to the topic at hand, I do not know enough about the facts to comment and would defer to people that know more like Jimi75, or direct contact with Fender.

OK, it wasn't my intention to follow up with this, but I believe it's only appropriate that I say a few things.

My friend, if you read my post in context it should be obvious I was not bashing lawyers in general. I mentioned a tv show for crying out loud. As for the comment about lawyers running the world, I'll stick to it. The world has to be run on vision, inspiration and innovation not legal codes; although they have their place. Finally I have no idea what the "the role of a lawyer in United States society" stereotype seems to be. I am not American.

You can take pride in your profession and should. Our discussion is on a rather different subject here. It's about legal mumbo jumbo and Fender's use of legal loopholes. "Specs subject to change without notice". Yeah right. Let me provide a translation for you: "Listen pal, we happen to have the best and most expensive lawyers and don't you ever dare think we won't take advantage of every legal trick there is to make a buck".

A really honest company would circulate a press release stating the changes in specs, esp. for a popular line like the Classic Player. It wouldn't change them when nobody was looking.

It should be clear by now where this was going with all the lawyer jokes. If I should apologize for anything, this would be my limited command of the written English language, which can lead to misconceptions.

warren0728
September 19th, 2007, 11:43 AM
looks like the shows not over...time for more popcorn and a "beverage" :munch:

ww :D

sunvalleylaw
September 19th, 2007, 11:58 AM
Hi Abraxas: Like I said, I don't think anyone intended offense to me, and I am not offended. I certainly did not intend any offense by my response. I respect your and Elavd's opinions. Anyone is entitled to his opinion and you may certainly have yours as far as I am concerned. Your home is the birthplace of much of American law and certainly the most common way for teaching it (Socratic method). Spirited civil debate without personal attack owes much, or maybe even most, to the traditions of the Greek philosopers. Peace brother.

Steve

abraxas
September 19th, 2007, 12:11 PM
Steve you've got pm

Sorry guys, no more show tonight. I'm off to practice, be nice. :AOK:

elavd
September 19th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Compare my Classic Player's 60s "Custom 69":

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/cp60s_pickups.jpg

to the ORIGINALS:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/CS69.jpg


What do you think????

Justaguyin_nc
September 19th, 2007, 01:30 PM
Hey, I didn't chime in yet??

Elavd, if you got a problem with a company..any company and its related to guitars.. please by all means... make a thread...

I do it all the time..:) Guitars, stores and payment methods...

If all we did was talk nice about things..how we gonna find out which do have some sort of problems..

Someone bad mouthed my new "old" Bassman cause it was not the Original old ones while my original post mentioned I didn't care what the nay sayers say..I take it with a grain of salt.. cause I know its a very good amp..cause I play it and like it..

I also believe we need to follow up in the proper places to.. then get back to the forum and let everyone know the outcome..

If this site starts limiting what you can say..it's not a site...

As for lawyer jokes... CNN said some guy is sueing god.. tis true.. God was gonna counter sue, but couldnt find a lawyer... I HEARD THIS ON CNN... and thought its funny..but tacky.. I am very sure sunvalleylaw is soooo tired of those jokes every place.. and can understand it.. but we all are built with skin..some tougher then others.. heck, I can't spell.. been told that here.. I can't put things in proper order in my posts..been told that here.. but I am still here.. cause.. well.. I want to be till its to much censored.. I don't believe thefret.net will become that.. we all have some heart..

ON TOPIC: I hope you get what you paid for from fender..and YES I think it matters!!

and if I am wrong to type any of this...any moderator wants to tell me to leave..POOF I am gone.......not a problem...

Oh btw elvad..I finally got those corners on my pedal board!!! thanks..:)

Spudman
September 19th, 2007, 01:36 PM
If your guitar is supposed to come with the Master Wound pickups and you didn't get what they advertised the guitar with then I feel you do have a legitimate complaint. This thread clearly shows that there is a big difference.
http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=703

Those Abby wound pickups would indeed increase in value and would initially be worth more as well. So if the literature that described your guitar plainly stated that it came with those pickups and it didn't, well then I'd be pissed too.

So? Was the guitar supposed to have that particular pickup in it?

elavd
September 19th, 2007, 01:39 PM
So? Was the guitar supposed to have that particular pickup in it?

I copy-paste from Fender's specs:

"Pickups: 3 Custom ‘69 Single-Coil Strat® Pickups with Grey Bobbins"

http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0141100372

Tone2TheBone
September 19th, 2007, 01:57 PM
If your guitar is supposed to come with the Master Wound pickups and you didn't get what they advertised the guitar with then I feel you do have a legitimate complaint. This thread clearly shows that there is a big difference.
http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=703

Those Abby wound pickups would indeed increase in value and would initially be worth more as well. So if the literature that described your guitar plainly stated that it came with those pickups and it didn't, well then I'd be pissed too.

So? Was the guitar supposed to have that particular pickup in it?

Aren't the Abby Master Wounds different altogether than the Custom Shop '69 pups that were supposed to come stock on the Classic 60s Players Strat? Now we're even more cornfused. :messedup:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320150112442

elavd
September 19th, 2007, 02:09 PM
Aren't the Abby Master Wounds different altogether than the Custom Shop '69 pups that were supposed to come stock on the Classic 60s Players Strat? Now we're even more cornfused. :messedup:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320150112442
Abby wounds sets on custom demand and she signs on them by writing "Abby"

http://marksmitchell1.home.mindspring.com/AbbyPG.JPG


The Custom 69s, are not wound by Abby, but inspected and dated by her. These pickups have the initials "A.Y." and cost half of the price of the handmade ones:


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/CS69.jpg


And, probably, there is a third category...(like those on my CP60s) that have the specs of the CS69s but are made in Mexico, and have nothing to do with Abby...:messedup:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/cp60s_pickups.jpg

Justaguyin_nc
September 19th, 2007, 02:14 PM
in this day of over priced Vintage stuff..thats a BIG buying point... Very BIG!

think of this 20-30 years down the road.. when everyone is talking about those great Abby labeled pickups!!

Spudman
September 19th, 2007, 02:24 PM
I copy-paste from Fender's specs:

"Pickups: 3 Custom ‘69 Single-Coil Strat® Pickups with Grey Bobbins"

http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0141100372

Those are totally different pickups then. End of discussion.

Lev
September 20th, 2007, 01:49 AM
I checked mine last night, they are initialed & dated but no sticker.

elavd
September 20th, 2007, 01:51 AM
Lev can you please tell me (if you remember) by looking the above pictures, if the bobbin color is like the one on 2nd or the 3rd image?

Lev
September 20th, 2007, 02:49 AM
I can't be 100& sure Elavd without looking again - I think they looked like the second image but without the sticker. I just did a quick check last night without taking the pickguard completely off. Tomorrow I'll have more time and will take a picture.

elavd
September 20th, 2007, 03:39 AM
I can't be 100& sure Elavd without looking again - I think they looked like the second image but without the sticker. I just did a quick check last night without taking the pickguard completely off. Tomorrow I'll have more time and will take a picture.

OK thanks!!!

Lev
September 21st, 2007, 03:44 AM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1213/1416262517_6e89f1af65.jpg?v=0

my pickups

elavd
September 21st, 2007, 03:53 AM
Lev as far as I can see, your pickups have the same bobbin color but mine are not signed.

Yours:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1213/1416262517_6e89f1af65.jpg?v=0 (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1213/1416262517_6e89f1af65.jpg?v=0)


and mine:


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/cp60s_pickups1.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/cp60s_pickups2.jpg

As far as I can tell, neither yours nor mine have the same color with the original Custom 69s...:(

Lev
September 21st, 2007, 04:16 AM
The AY looks a bit different on mine compared to the previous picture you posted of the initialed PUPs. I doubt very much Abigal herself has been initialing all of these PUPs. From reading the threads on the Fender Forum I don't think anyone ever got a custom shop sticker or a fully signed 'Abigail' on their CP60's PUPs.

Tone2TheBone
September 21st, 2007, 08:15 AM
But they sound awesome right? :AOK:

rJ7ohIX_Xbo

Lev
September 21st, 2007, 08:43 AM
But they sound awesome right? :AOK:



well if they make me sound OK, I can only imagine what a real musician could do with these PUPs :o

sunvalleylaw
September 21st, 2007, 10:54 AM
Aw come on Lev. You are real. And you sound great. Where is that link to Tone's post about being apologetic about our playing. :) :Dude: :R

elavd
September 21st, 2007, 12:50 PM
I have some news about the pickups:

I contacted Thomann (the German music store where I bought it) and they asked me to send them some close photos of the pickups (showing both the top and the bottom of the pickups) in order to send them to Fender Europe for some extra info.

Fender told them that these are indeed 69 pickups, and that they don't put any the custom shop sticker on them and A.Y. doesn't sign on them anymore.

They told me also that this tactic occurs on the SRV model too, which has the Texas Specials pickups on it but without any mark on them, in contrast to the ones that you can buy separately.

Also the guy from Thomman told me that he checked not only 4 other CP60s that he had there, but the Custom 69s that he had for sale and he noticed that:
1) all the (new) CP60s didn't have anything written on the bottom of their pickups
2) the CS69s that had for sale had also light grey colored bobbin, identical to the one on the CP60s pickups.
3) He also checked the poles of the "original" and the CP60s' ones and found them identical.

Also he mention that as far as he knows, Abbigail doesn't sign anymore pickups for Fender...



Fender's specs about CS69 mention that the all 3 pickups have a DC resistance of 5.8k.
So I decided to see if my pickups have the same resistance too...

I took off the pickguard and unsoldered the pickups in order to measure the resistance with a Digital Multimeter.

I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that my pickups had very close resistance values to the nominal ones!

BRIDGE PICKUP:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/classic%20player%2060s/Bridge.jpg

MIDDLE PICKUP:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/classic%20player%2060s/Middle.jpg

NECK PICKUP:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/elavd/classic%20player%2060s/neck.jpg



After all this information I think this:

Probably Fender has a great sales demand for the CP60s models and so the production of these specific pickups was transfered to Mexico too. They are made according to the Custom Shop specs, but they are not Custom Shop made...

Justaguyin_nc
September 21st, 2007, 02:14 PM
Having way to much time on my hands and a computer close.. I asked a few dealers selling the custom 69's packaged on e-bay if theirs are signed.. I have gotten 3 response's.. all having the initials A.Y.and dated.. so I assume.. it was not much of an experiment.. as these could be OLD STOCK.. but they are still available to purchase like that.. no one mentions they have Abbey on them at all any more...

Good to see they fall into the 69 range... and probably are "as good" as Abbey wound pups.. but still feel for ya due to the Vintage price factor later down the road....

And lev.. dude... ya know you make that 69 sing...:beer:

Lev
September 22nd, 2007, 06:55 AM
Great info Elavd!! Thanks for all the investigation - I hope the lack of a signature doesn't stop you from enjoying this guitar - it's still a great sounding axe! :R

Oh and Justa, Steve & Tone - :beer:

elavd
September 22nd, 2007, 07:29 AM
I hope the lack of a signature doesn't stop you from enjoying this guitar - it's still a great sounding axe!

It's agreat guitar for sure, but I want to make clear this issue anyway...;)

I'll try to post some audio (or video) clips soon ;)