What you think of guitar shredders?

[Robert]

By shredder, I mean guitarists who play in a style similar to players like Yngwie Malmsteen, Paul Gilbert, Rusty Cooley, Joe Satriani, Michael Angelo Batio, etc.

They play fast and with many notes. They use techniques like
Alternate picking
Legato
String skipping
Sweep picking (often arpeggios)
Tapping
and they usually use their techniques in "flashy" ways.

Their tone is usually heavily distorted, with delay and other effects added in order to make their tone sound smooth and to make it easier to play fast.

[abraxas]

I voted (C), but I'd like to point out that I don't regard Vai or Satriani as shredders per se. For them it's the composition and arrangement above all, and the virtuosity seems almost like a side effect.

I believe most shredders and like-minded wannabees, have mixed up music with athletics. :whatever:

There is a long tradition of "flashy" playing in every genre, for example, listen to early Les Paul for a full "shredding" experience! On the other hand I can't stand listening to sweep picking all over the neck, all night long. I fall asleep. :messedup:

All IMHO and YMMV and all.

[marnold]

I've always enjoyed the neo-classical guys. The comparisons to Vivaldi, for example, are obvious. I like how they apply Baroque ideas to hard rock. I'm not sure I'd ever be able to get that level of manual dexterity. I've been listening to MAB more recently. Yes, he is faster and flashier than almost anyone else, but he also allows things to breathe. He also has a nice and accurate vibrato. I've been listening to Dragonforce, a group that seems devoted to bringing shredding back. I love the album "Inhuman Rampage" but it is a very intense album to listen to. Not something you want to listen to as you're napping, but that's hardly the point.

Sure, shredding can become a pointless wankfest, but given the fact that in the 90s Kurt Cobain and Billie Joe Armstrong could be considered guitar heroes, a return to musicianship and technical ability is a welcome thing.

Personally, the one technique I'd love to master is sweep picking. I love the way it sounds. I've got to go back to working on that again.

[Jimi75]

I voted B, because I have phases where shredding appeals to me and if I told you that I do not have albums of Vai, Satriani, Yngwie etc in my collection I would lie!

There is a lot of poeple like Vinnie Moore or Satriani that write great songs.
I respect the way they chose to express their music.

What I like the most is if you can hear the BLUES background in someone's shredding. Listen to BLUES SARACENO. This guy has a phrasing that is totally from another world!!!!!!

Anyone here who doesn't like Govan Guthrie??? See....:crazyguy:

One question:
Do shredders always drive fast cars?

[t_ross33]

I could never get into it that much. Paying more attention now that I'm a leadish-guitar player, but the style never has appealed to me.

Coming from a country background I'd rather fill my boots with some turbograss pickin' the likes of Brent Mason or Steuart Smith.

And Marnold, how can you slam Billie Joe Armstrong! He's my hero: technical prowess not withstanding, he plays with STYLE :rotflmao: Like me, it's all about LOOKING like you know what you're doing :rotflmao: :beer:

[Tone2TheBone]

I liked Vinny Moore and Tony McAlpine a lot back in the day. Even Wingie. I too am into the baroque style from my love of classical music.

[sunvalleylaw]

I picked "C". I have not listened to a great deal, and only recently with input from folks here have even listened to people like Satriani. Like Marnold, I think neo-classical and baroque is cool, and I do like Vivaldi and work that invokes that feel. But I like Green Day, Nirvana, MxPx, Social D, etc. too. Ultimately, getting a sense of feeling and heart in playing is more important to me. I have never been hugely impressed by a lot of flash as alluded to by Robert. Musicians that come off as Popinjays are not appealling to me.

[SuperSwede]

Their tone is usually heavily distorted, with delay and other effects added in order to make their tone sound smooth and to make it easier to play fast.

If you listen closely to Yngwie you can hear that he actually uses very little effects and distorsion.

[tunghaichuan]

I voted for the second one down from the top.

Shredding is like any other guitar playing style: there are the visionaries who innovate, and the imitators who rehash what has done before.

tung

[just strum]

I went with C - I'm not really big on it, I don't seek it out, but I do appreciate the ability when I hear it or see a clip.

[abraxas]

What I like the most is if you can hear the BLUES background in someone's shredding. Listen to BLUES SARACENO. This guy has a phrasing that is totally from another world!!!!!!

Anyone here who doesn't like Govan Guthrie??? See....:crazyguy:


+1000 on those remarks! :)

Blues is a great player! And Guthrie is god, period. Please consider the following, in contrast to your average fire-breathing, fleet-fingered shredder. The experience is almost humiliating:

bUZK9dasP8s

[Tone2TheBone]

Yeah now I like that.

[Justaguyin_nc]

I do appreciate what they can do..I just don't listen to it that much...

I guess this was all that I cared for in the video menu above

76TQUY4sIF0

But I prefer these shedders over the newer ones..

Ni8KBhnebwE

:Dude:

[Tone2TheBone]

Jerry Reed is a god thanks Justa.

[Adrian30]

I voted C, too. I greatly value the skill and technique that goes into playing that fast. I also listen to some Malmsteen, Vai, Satriani etc.:AOK:

[Spudman]

Guitar shredders? Why would anyone want to shred their guitar?:confused:

I appreciate the ability that it takes to play shred guitar and like to listen to a lot of it on a non-steady basis, and I think there is a lot of art and musicianship involved.

But...I don't think I can sing a single shredder solo off the top of my head, but I can sing the solo to "Old Brown Shoe" and "Something" by the Beatles off the top of my head. I generally come back to melodic non-shred for the mainstay of my diet.

[Adrian30]

But...I don't think I can sing a single shredder solo off the top of my head, but I can sing the solo to "Old Brown Shoe" and "Something" by the Beatles off the top of my head. I generally come back to melodic non-shred for the mainstay of my diet.

Nicely said, Spud.:AOK:

[jpfeifer]

I guess I'm kind of old-fashioned, but for some reason this style of playing doesn't get me excited like it used to when I was in highschool. I just get kind of worn out listening to someone play like that for too long, especially if the chord changes aren't all that interesting.

-- Jim

[Lev]

Jerry Reed is a god thanks Justa.

Now if we just had a video of Jerry Reed Jamming with Guthrie Govan :drool:

I think shred has it's place - I don't necessarily want to listen to a whole record of shred songs but I would love to master some of the techniques and add it to my arsenal. Knowing when 'not' to shred is a talent that many shredders seem to forget though!

Also, just thought a shred discussion would be incomplete without a mention for Jason Becker

RBPyjOUlhp0

[R_of_G]

Guitar shredders? Why would anyone want to shred their guitar?:confused:

I appreciate the ability that it takes to play shred guitar and like to listen to a lot of it on a non-steady basis, and I think there is a lot of art and musicianship involved.

But...I don't think I can sing a single shredder solo off the top of my head, but I can sing the solo to "Old Brown Shoe" and "Something" by the Beatles off the top of my head. I generally come back to melodic non-shred for the mainstay of my diet.

I'm with Spud on this one. While I fully appreciate the technical prowess of many shredders, being a junkie for tone, I tend to appreciate a bit of a slower solo, something with some accessible melody. When I am in the mood to hear someone shred, I typically enjoy a jam or two, but it's not often I can sit and listen to a whole album's worth of it in one sitting. whereas I can listen to a Bill Frisell album from top to bottom.

[Plank_Spanker]

I went with option C. I do appreciate the skills of shredders, but to my tastes, it's just an exhibition of pure technique and emotionally cold.

I love to watch a player get in there and pour his soul out wringing notes from the guitar. I don't see this with shredders playing 32nd notes at 350 bpm.

[tunghaichuan]

Although I wouldn't call Buckethead a "shredder" per se, (he is much more versatile and created than to be labled just a shredder) he does shred.

And he can shred emotively:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GYpIOTih9k

tung

[R_of_G]

Although I wouldn't call Buckethead a "shredder" per se, (he is much more versatile and created than to be labled just a shredder) he does shred.

And he can shred emotively:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GYpIOTih9k

tung

No doubt, Buckethead is awesome. He can shred like anyone, but there's more to his play than a billion notes per second. I gave a listen to one of the albums he did with Viggo Mortensen [the actor], and Buckethead plays some beautiful slow acoustic stuff.

Another example I coulg give would be Marc Ribot. As everyone prob knows by now he is my favorite living guitar player. Pick up an album like "Asmodeus" or some of his live stuff with his trio Ceramic Dog and you can hear Marc shred his *** off, and he does it brilliantly, but when I listen to it it's usually a couple of songs here and there, whereas his "Spiritual Unity" album, or any of his more sparse emotive playing I could listen to all day.

[tunghaichuan]

I have Marc Ribot's Rootless Cosmopolitans, outstanding guitar player. I particularly like his deconstructed version of George Harrison's "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and turns a great song into something extraordinary. Another standout from that album for me is "Have a Nice Day."

If you like spare, emotive playing, check out Sails by Loren MazzaCane Connors. Connors is rooted in the blues, but he takes it light years beyond what anyone else has done with the genre.

tung




Another example I coulg give would be Marc Ribot. As everyone prob knows by now he is my favorite living guitar player. Pick up an album like "Asmodeus" or some of his live stuff with his trio Ceramic Dog and you can hear Marc shred his *** off, and he does it brilliantly, but when I listen to it it's usually a couple of songs here and there, whereas his "Spiritual Unity" album, or any of his more sparse emotive playing I could listen to all day.

[Brian Krashpad]

Put me in the "can't stand it" camp.

It's never been of the slightest interest to me.

[kerc]

I dig Paul Gilbert. He's just nuts.

[Robert]

Ahh, this is an interesting poll indeed! Only one so far voting for option 1, and only two voting for option 4! Interesting indeed... :D

I bet the result from this poll would have been different say, 20 years ago! :Dude:

[elavd]

I voted C because I don't like that kind of playing and I feel very bored when I listen to it....

99.9% of the phrases these guys play cannot be sung*. This is "translated" to my ears as non-musical and emotionless playing...

BUT I have to admit that I admire the abilities of most of them. I don't know if I could manage to play so fast, even if I liked this kind of playing...


* all the guitarists that I like, have such phrasing which sticks in your head! You can remember, sing or whistle their notes...

[abraxas]

99.9% of the phrases these guys play cannot be sung*. This is "translated" to my ears as non-musical and emotionless playing...


Elias this is exactly what I was discussing with my daughter the other day. I was arguing why Johnny A. is a giant guitar player IMHO, because his note selection and tone is such that you always remember (and can sing) the phrases.

That said, I believe this is also true for the Guthrie Govan clip I posted earlier. I believe players such as he, or Johnny can combine virtuosity with taste in a beautiful way.

[marnold]

Ahh, this is an interesting poll indeed! Only one so far voting for option 1, and only two voting for option 4! Interesting indeed... :D
I'm the option 1 guy. I've heard the "solos can't be sung" argument before and for the life of me, I don't understand it. I cannot see how sing-ability is equal to musicality. If you are going to limit the solos you like to the ones that you can sing, then, quite frankly, you are going to eliminate an awful lot of players, not just shredders, viz, Jazz, flamenco, classical, etc.

[abraxas]

I'm the option 1 guy. I've heard the "solos can't be sung" argument before and for the life of me, I don't understand it. I cannot see how sing-ability is equal to musicality. If you are going to limit the solos you like to the ones that you can sing, then, quite frankly, you are going to eliminate an awful lot of players, not just shredders, viz, Jazz, flamenco, classical, etc.

I will respectfully disagree. We are not talking about being able to sing each line note for note (don't forget the guitar has a 4 octave range, while the average human voice... let's not talk about it!).

The principle is to be able to remember and "follow" the melodic lines, let's say "being in context". That's why catchy riffs are the cornerstone of successful songwriting; people are able to to "connect".

There is also the element of "groove" which is also essential, and very depended on the culture of the listener. For example, black people (of African origin) are most likely to be "connected" with the basslines on a song, while most white folks are drawn to the drums. Try to observe it, it's true!

Also, given your cultural background, I suspect you would view our 9/8, 7/8 or other odd meters in Greek and Balkan music as possibly "exotic" :D

[elavd]

There is also the element of "groove" which is also essential, and very depended on the culture of the listener. For example, black people (of African origin) are most likely to be "connected" with the basslines on a song, while most white folks are drawn to the drums. Try to observe it, it's true!
This video shows exactly the opposite:

FyLGtc0HAgA

:D

[Spudman]

This video shows exactly the opposite:

:D

Now that is some funny sh!*! :rotflmao:

[tjcurtin1]

Aww, C'mon now, Abraxas and Elavd - fess up, that was a set-up you guys worked out - it was too perfect!

[elavd]

Aww, C'mon now, Abraxas and Elavd - fess up, that was a set-up you guys worked out - it was too perfect!

?????? :confused:

[abraxas]

Aww, C'mon now, Abraxas and Elavd - fess up, that was a set-up you guys worked out - it was too perfect!

Nononononono, not intentional at all! :D

[Spudman]

You two certainly seem to stand behind one another.:crazyguy:

[abraxas]

You two certainly seem to stand behind one another.:crazyguy:

Ehhm... I don't know exactly how to interpret this, with the smilies and all...

Especially coming from a moderator.

Would you care to elaborate a bit?

(see? no smilies at all)

[tot_Ou_tard]

This video shows exactly the opposite:

FyLGtc0HAgA

:D
D@mn! Beat me to it.

I was gonna hunt down this clip too. :D

[Ger the man]

Good at what they do I suppose but I once witnessed a classical player and metal head shredder go head to head in a music shop. The classical player won by a country mile! I prefer light rock/funk and jazz players to be honest, musically they are more creative imo. Shredders have too much to prove.

[Katastrophe]

Gee, after 39 posts and a Chapelle Show reference I guess I'll weigh in.

Shredding is cool, in small doses, IMHO. When I was taking lessons, the school had a video room set up with instructional tapes by George Lynch, Paul Gilbert, Yngwie, and others. I used to get to class at least an hour early so I could work on some finger exercises and try to get some speed into my playing. I'd like to think I learned some pretty cool stuff that way. I have heard some incredible guitar, both in tones and technique coming from speedy guitar players. Someone has to push the envelope, right?

Then I listen to someone like David Gilmour, who is all about tasteful phrasing and melody in his solos. He's the anti-shredder, and it doesn't matter how fast or slow he plays. What he plays fits within the context of the song.

So now I gues I sit firmly on the fence, as someone who wants to hear soul and emotion from a player, but can appreciate and enjoy a nice burst of speed every now and again.

How's that for being wishy-washy?:messedup:

[Justaguyin_nc]

I justa had to add this...
Although I don't caremuch for shredding..
Marnold was right about DragonForce..
these guys are good..
and you can actually listen to a whole song
without getting tired...

q3M2X4ZAH_w

:beer:
Hmm..once again..made me think of Meatloaf... not the food..

[Spudman]

I like Dragon Force but like the king said in the movie Amadeus "too many notes."

Good melodic overkill.:D

[marnold]

Of course, I was watching someone play Bach's famous "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor." There's some serious shredding in there. He was playing it on this massive, glorious, pipe organ. Of course, watching a YouTube video of it loses quite a bit in the translation.

For those of you who prefer something slower, here's the last track off the Dragonforce album, "Trail of Broken Hearts." Grab your lighters!

s3EROMqgBTs

As a child of the 80s, I like me a good power ballad. I may the only person on the planet who likes that song, but I don't care.

BTW, I have no idea who made the Final Fantasy video for it.

[Eric]

Marnold was right about DragonForce..
these guys are good..
and you can actually listen to a whole song
without getting tired...

q3M2X4ZAH_w
I just watched this video, so I searched for Dragonforce here. This (or at least the guitar work therein), to me, is the definition of being impressive while simultaneously being something that just doesn't interest me. If technique wasn't some challenge to be bested/mastered, are there people who would actually enjoy listening to/watching this? I guess this thread has proven so, huh?

Interesting. Not easy for me to understand, but interesting.

[NWBasser]

I put in "C"!

What else would you expect from a bass player?:poke

I've come to appreciate guitar players that put the overall musical soundscape ahead of their egos.

As a good example, I love listening to Jeff Beck as he incorporates virtuoso playing alongside other virtuoso musicians like Tim Bogert.

I'm a bit late to discover Beck's music and unfortunately don't know who played bass (killer player!) on some of his early albums like Wired and Blow by Blow. Anybody here know?

[deeaa]

+1000 on those remarks! :)

Blues is a great player! And Guthrie is god, period. Please consider the following, in contrast to your average fire-breathing, fleet-fingered shredder. The experience is almost humiliating:

bUZK9dasP8s

That was good, but the thing I dislike about this kind of playing...any guitar god playing is...it's so very clean. Every note picked or played just in time and accurately...I don't like it. Even the sound is way too refined and AOR style I get bored listening to it in a minute flat. I like it more when every note is played with more spasticity, with little regard for exactness, but everything on feel and power, squeals and screeches and NOT that polite, jazzy old-people-approved boring guitar god tone. I prefer Angus and Neil Young and such. IMO anybody can learn to play fast and clean if time is spent on it, but not all can learn to play freely and rawly and still make it sound great.

Not to say I don't appreciate his mad skillz, sure I do, but I just find it very boring.

[sunvalleylaw]

I looked at my old answer (C) and I still feel the same way. I have listened to a bit more since then, but it is not what I reach for most often.