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Tone2TheBone
March 3rd, 2006, 11:59 AM
I am finally ready to make the jump to lightspeed and archive my Audio CDs.

I'm tired of lugging around CD cases and fearing skipped songs as I drive around town. I plan to archive all my music on the DVD burner and then import them into an MP3 player of some kind. My question is...do you guys do the same thing? Do you have a better way? Do you archive your music on external hard drives? Also what MP3 players are you guys using? If you are using MP3 players in your cars...how are you getting the signal to your deck? Cassette adaptor or FM transmitter?

Robert
March 3rd, 2006, 12:34 PM
Get a 30 gig Creative Zen Vision - See http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_Vision_M_30GB_black/4505-6490_7-31632696.html?tag=coco

Or the 40gig iPod.

My Creative Zen Micro is great, but I already filled up its 6 gigs....

Tone2TheBone
March 3rd, 2006, 12:37 PM
Well we got my daughter the 30 gig iPod. It's awesome. But I'm going to need 2 units, one for myself and one for my wife, so saving "some" money in that area would be good. Have you backed up any of your music to hard drive space on your computer or to high capacity DVD disks? I suppose burning them to DVD is redundant now that I'm thinking about it. Then again I'd still like to burn them to DVD especially since I'm listening to the disks now. At least until I get the units. I just hate the idea of scratching any disks that I am still listening to in my car CD player.

Robert - for the price of the 30G Zen I may as well get the iPod. It's not cheaper.

marnold
March 3rd, 2006, 12:46 PM
I've got a Kenwood in-dash MP3 player. At a reasonable bitrate I can get 12 albums on a CD. I use a program called amaroK on my Linux box to keep track of my music collection. If I need something portable, I dump a number of albums to my Palm TX's 1G SD card.

I would love to have an in-dash MP3 player that can play DVD-Rs. I could almost put all of my rock MP3s on a single DVD and play forever!

Tone2TheBone
March 3rd, 2006, 12:54 PM
You know what Marnold, that would be awsome. A DVD disk holds what...almost 5 gigs? I still like the idea of a portable MP3 player though because I don't want to bother at all with any disks. Some of my CDs are showing wear and I try REALLY hard to take care of them. Some skip and I hate even using the CD player. At least if I had them in digital form on a portable unit that would be slick. I'm wondering how it would compare in sound quality though compared to the way you're doing it? I would think digital information would still come out the same even if I use the MP3 player accesory to get it to my car stereo?

marnold
March 3rd, 2006, 01:09 PM
The sound quality difference would depend on how you are connecting the portable to your in-dash radio. An FM modulator would decrease the quality. A number of receivers have built-in iPod's connectors. Personally, I think that the driving noise (unless you have an ueber-expensive car) would likely offset any quality loss. I love my in-dash MP3 player. It's one of the few purchases I've made and NEVER regretted even in the least.

SuperSwede
March 3rd, 2006, 02:42 PM
I backup all my music on a external harddrive. But I am planning on burning some DVD´s as well.

Spudman
March 3rd, 2006, 06:56 PM
Tone

1. I put the music into my computer.
2. Turn it into an MP3 file (unless it came into the computer that way).
3. Burn several albums to a CD in MP3 format (approx 8) each disc.
4. Play them back in my portable CD player that also plays MP3 discs.
5. Enjoy hours and hours of uninterrupted music.
6. Went to the thrift store and got a cassette adapter to use to play the MP3's in my cars cassette deck from my portable player (approx $1).
7. That much music...priceless.


PS. The adapter works also if you have a tiny portable MP3 player. It's a win -win situation.

PSS. A portable SD card reader/MP3 player is around $20-$40 and the Portable CD/MP3 players are around $30

Tim
March 4th, 2006, 01:58 PM
Tone – I just bought a 100 GB external drive at Staples for $79.00. I just transferred all my CDS from the main hard drive to the new external drive. Here in Florida you can buy a 160 GB Seagate hard drive at Wally World for $113.88 (if you can find them).

My kids are pitching in and buying me the XM portable (walkman style) receiver that also plays MP3 for my birthday. It can be used in the home, in the car and as a clip-on for walking and other things. Hanging form the belt you need a headset. It comes ready with home, car and belt accessories all in one box for $148.00 + (I believe).

I also have a MPIO MP3 player that holds 12 albums on a 1 GN stick, which I play in the car through the cassette player adapter. My next car will be capable to play MP3s.

Spudman - Did I read right? You can turn CDs into an MP3 file and burn several albums to a CD in MP3 format (approx 8) each disc? This is awesome information. Where have I been ? I am burning extra CDs to carry around to save the store bought one from damage. I'm waisting presious CDs by duplicating them only.

Spudman
March 4th, 2006, 04:06 PM
Tim
You read correctly.
Get http://www.download.com/CDex/3000-2140-10226370.html and you can freely transform your CD's (wav) into Mp3's and back again.
Depending on the size of the initial album in megabytes and the sample rate (usually 192 for good quality) you can fit 8 to 12 CD's on on CDR in MP3 format. You can do even more albums if you use a lower sample rate or Windows Compressed Media. I can't remember what that is called. Anyone?

Tone2TheBone
March 5th, 2006, 12:24 AM
Guys,

All excellent tips and info...thank you.

Marnold - the stock Toyota 6 speaker stereo system in my truck has tremendous OUTPUT (really loud and really deeeeep bass the way I like it, it has a really good output amp), I'm pretty sure the MP3 files will sound good once I get the signal there. Yeah I'm thinking that the FM transmitter would be a good choice. It sounds like your MP3 indash unit ROCKS. Thanks for your comments.

Spud - wow I didn't know you could do that with CDs. (MP3 conversion you posted) AWESOME thank you.

Tim - man you're already light years ahead of me! Sounds like you're on course in the right direction, you got some sweet setups there.

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions!

Tone2TheBone
March 6th, 2006, 10:03 AM
Ok I picked up a Belkin FM transmitter for an iPod. Using my daughter's iPod I connected it up and well...it works! So that part is taken care of. I'm thinking that I'm going to go with another iPod because I like how it works and imports songs on the unit with the a plug of the USB chord. I'm already used to iTunes. I should archive my CDs to DVD as regular wma files or whatever native file format they are in anyway for future reference and use.

SuperSwede
March 6th, 2006, 10:50 AM
AAC (.aac) works best imho (also known as .m4a)

Tone2TheBone
March 6th, 2006, 10:53 AM
SS is that the file extension on iPods?

SuperSwede
March 6th, 2006, 10:58 AM
The iPod can handle MP3 and AAC, but AAC is Apples own preferred codec (and it has the best audio quality)
In iTunes you can change the preferred codec in the settings menu. Then just right-click on a non-aac song and choose "convert to AAC".
Sync your iPod and you are ready to go.

Tone2TheBone
March 6th, 2006, 11:10 AM
I'm a PC geek buddy but I do like the Apple stuff A LOT. I Like how their applications work. Thanks for the information. I'm gettin' another iPod!

SuperSwede
March 6th, 2006, 11:15 AM
I'm gettin' another iPod!

...and perhaps a Mac as well? ;)
You would love recording on one of those !

Tone2TheBone
March 6th, 2006, 11:31 AM
Oh I bet. Hey you never know! Do they make a really good Mac notebook computer?

SuperSwede
March 6th, 2006, 11:36 AM
Best screen you ever seen!

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

SuperSwede
March 6th, 2006, 11:38 AM
Check out front row, really good iPod like media center application that ships with all new macs (plus a remote that looks just like a ipod mini)

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/frontrow.html

Tim
March 6th, 2006, 11:45 AM
I should archive my CDs to DVD as regular wma files or whatever native file format they are in anyway for future reference and use.

HELP me here please!!! I say … HELP me here brothers!!! Why are you saving DVDs to a .wma file format? I thought .wma was an audio extension. I am confused.

SuperSwede
March 6th, 2006, 11:50 AM
You can save up to 4.7GB of data on a standard DVD-R disc. That means that you can save Word files, movies, music..whatever you like on that disc. For instance you can burn all your MP3 files to one disc as a backup.
Some CD players can play something called a MP3 CD which basically is a CD-rom full of MP3 files (there is room for LOTS of music on a 650mb CD). Your CD-writer application probably has this option.

Tone2TheBone
March 6th, 2006, 12:10 PM
Tim - sorry what I was trying to say was to burn my audio MP3 files onto DVD for storage. In my head I was thinking the Apple AAC file extensions. Don't let me confuse you. :)

My CD player in my truck plays MP3/CD files. I've burned lots of CDs full of MP3 files using my standard CD burning software.

Tim
March 6th, 2006, 12:14 PM
Tone & SS – I am not really confused. I just want to understand the possibilities as much as I can. This is enlightening information to me.

Ok, so I have this right. I can burn musical MP3s on a DVD. This large 4.7GB DVD can hold mucho music files. I can then play the MP3s on the DVD on a player that plays MP3 musical files (new portable CD players, new car radio/CD/MP3 players and computers)?

Or are you saying the music saved in MP3 format is stored on the DVDs as a back up only. It can not be played at all.

SuperSwede
March 6th, 2006, 01:24 PM
Music stored as MP3 files can be played on a DVD player that supports MP3 playback, most DVD players that you buy today has this feature. If you want to play mp3 music in your car, then you should invest in a car stereo that can play MP3 disc´s, and then burn those discs on your computer.
You could also buy a MP3 player such as the iPod and connect it to your car stereo through the AUX in (or a FM transmittor, cassette-adapter et.c).

You can find iPod accessories here:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6314000/wo/yH77X0jS9SzF2Da3Aytx5OGRFPe/0.SLID?mco=567F5736&nclm=iPodCarAudio

Tone2TheBone
March 7th, 2006, 05:30 PM
Ok Tim, for further confusion please read below. ;)

All you audionerds...I got a real good audio question for ya.

When I load an audio CD that I brought from the store and Windows (don't know how Macs do this) stores the files on my hard drive as MP3s...the playback "quality" (for lack of a better word) will play back at 128Kbs on my Windows Media Player or similar audio player. I've read specs on several MP3 players that I've been researching that state that saving an MP3 file as a WMA will allow more files to be saved, and many MP3 players (all non-iPod/Apple products) will asterick a certain amount of songs the unit can store based on WMA files. It looks better on paper to show more songs saved as WMAs than it does regular MP3s. Apparently you can shrink audio file sizes down a bit more using this conversion though. So...I downloaded one of these conversion packages for a trial run.

Indeed you can convert an MP3 to a WMA file but when you do this you are asked at what speed "Kbs" you'd want to save the file at. I tried it on one song that was 1.71 Meg in size (MP3 format)...and saved it at 64Kbs WMA...the file was reduced down in byte size to 893K. A significant decrease in size. BUT I am wondering if my ear or yours would be able to tell the difference between a 128Kbs as opposed to 64Kbs during playback. The 64Kbs factor comes from the specs on most MP3 players when you read about how many songs the unit will store. They're based on this figure. I've played both files one right after another, side by side if you will...and I can't clearly hear a difference, they both sound almost the same. Since they sound the same I am moving toward a further increase in my MP3/WMA storage capacity by using this conversion, at the risk of sound quality which I wasn't able to detect anyway. Do any of you smart guys have any insight on this?

ps - again iPod specs don't show compatibility with WMA files not surprisingly.

Spudman
March 7th, 2006, 06:19 PM
I'm partially deaf and I can tell the difference between 128 and 192 to say nothing of the difference between the CD and an MP3. If there are some songs or albums (Dark Side Of The Moon for instance) that are high fidelity treats then store those at a higher bit rate.

I do most of my listening with headphones on so the fidelity is important to me. If you are listening with a bunch of background noise then maybe it won't matter as much.

Spoken word like lectures or audio books will probably be OK with the lower bit rate. Symphonic music probably not.
Try listening to MP3's only for a while then put on the CD of the same material. I'll be that you go "whoa, I didn't know that was in there."

My $.02 worth.

SuperSwede
March 8th, 2006, 04:44 AM
Tone, I dont think that I qualify as one of the smart dudes but here is my take on it.
MP3 coded in 192kb will have similar qualities to a AAC/WMA coded in 128kbit. MP3 is a much older format than AAC/WMA so you can probably expect to get away with a lower bitrate on those formats than by MP3 (which honestly is a rather crude compression technique). However, I personally think that 128kb mp3 (or WMA/AAC) compromises too much of the audio quality. I also listen to music in headphones, so I agree with spud that certain music demand higher bitrates.

Tim
March 8th, 2006, 05:30 AM
Tone – Spudman is correct. Listen to your music with headphones. There is a difference with the size you choose to store the files. I can not remember what size I selected, but I crammed a lot of songs on a memory card for my MP3 player. On a flight to LA I set up my MP3 player, pushed back my seat for a nice 4 hour flight. The sound that came through the ear buds was terrible. There was no stereo effect and the music was very flat with no EQ. On some songs I only had one channel. I believe I chose the second step down from CD quality.

I have an older MPIO MP3 player that is 3 years old. I put my music on 1.0GB memory card. It holds 13 albums on each card. A 256 card will hold about 6 albums and a 128 will hold 3.5 albums. I think I saved the albums at CD quality on the 1.0GB card.

The newer MP3 players have larger internal memory. A 5.0GB MP3 player will hold 65 albums. That’s a lot of music.

SuperSwede
March 8th, 2006, 07:50 AM
Tim, you should experiment with different codecs. Not all MP3 encoders create good sounding audio files. There is a lot of difference between them!
You should also check out wma/aac encoding if your mp3 player can handle it, you will get much better quality at lower settings. 128kbit AAC is really comparable to 160/192kbit of good encoded MP3.

Tone2TheBone
March 8th, 2006, 09:45 AM
AHA! I knew I'd get some good answers from you geeks I mean guys! ;)

Fidelity. Thats the word I was thinking. Thanks Spud. Thanks also Tim and Super. *knuckle shakes to all*

SuperSwede
March 8th, 2006, 11:01 AM
Aint we all a bunch of geeks hanging out on a guitar forum? ;)

Tone2TheBone
March 8th, 2006, 11:28 AM
I resemble that remark. 8)

LMAO