And Who Is Over-Rated?

[R_of_G]

The thread for unsung guitar heroes has been very interesting so far. So who do you guys think are some over-rated guitar players.

My first vote goes to Trey Anastasio. Let me preface this by saying I loved Phish, and I saw them numerous times from 1992-2002. I think Trey is a great guitar player and a skilled composer of some very complex and interesting pieces of music. That said, he is hardly the end-all-be-all guitar player he is held up to be by a large number of people. I have heard many a bad performance, and I have heard many players do what he does better than he does it. No doubt Trey is amazing, but he's just not the second-coming of Jimi many of his fans believe he is.

[Spudman]

Slash.

[Robert]

Me. :)

[R_of_G]

Me. :)

Thanks for the free laugh Robert! You're certainly not over-rated in your own self-assessment.

[Big_Rob]

Heh, Where to begin.....

Jimmy Page, cause he was sloppy.
Tom Morello, cause I cant stand Rage Against The Machine and it seems like he is in all the guitar mags lately as some kind of guitar god.

[Iago]

Joe Bonamassa & Zakk Wylde.

[duhvoodooman]

Now, don't take this the wrong way....B.B. King. I love the guy as a fantastic overall artist and a blues icon, but when I saw that he turned up #3 on that Rolling Stone top 100 guitar players list, I about fell over. I love the sweetness of his tone, and his less-is-more style with fills and soloing--a skill that more than a few famous guitarists should learn! He's also one of those rare guitarists whose work can be identified after about three notes. But to place him that high up purely as a guitar player seems way out of line to me. I think you'd find that most hardcore blues guitar enthusiasts would probably place Albert King before B.B. as a guitar player, and Albert didn't even make that list. But as a blues artist--the total package--I consider B.B. right up there on a very short list of all-time greats.

[Tone2TheBone]

Iago - Joe Bonamassa.....WHAT!!!?

Voodoo - B.B. King.........WHAT!!!?

I can't believe you guys harping on these legends this place has gone to the gods. I mean dogs. No wonder people don't like this place anymore dang!

>>;)<<



I have to agree with Spud. While Slash has good tastes in guitars and amps I think he was and is overrated. And Lord knows so was Axl.

[just strum]

Iago - Joe Bonamassa.....WHAT!!!?

Voodoo - B.B. King.........WHAT!!!?

I can't believe you guys harping on these legends this place has gone to the gods. I mean dogs. No wonder people don't like this place anymore dang!

>>;)<<



I have to agree with Spud. While Slash has good tastes in guitars and amps I think he was and is overrated. And Lord knows so was Axl.

I agree, but together they could kick some a$$, unfortunately it was usually their own.

[jpfeifer]

Hmmm, ... I have to think about this one. I actually think that there are far more unsung heros in the guitar world than the over-rated guys. But here's a list of people that seem to show up as great players that shouldn't be on the list in my opinion ...

Richie Sambora (he is a decent rock player, but beyond that ... I don't get it?)

Esteban (this guy certainly knows how to market himself, so I have to give him credit for that, but I have never seen him play anything that impressed me, yet people rave about him ... sometimes image is more important than talent :-)

Trey Anastasio (I am not that familiar with Phish's music, but this guy got a lot of press in the music magazines. I was looking forward to finally being able to see him play on a recent TV concert but after seeing him play I'm wondering what other people hear in his playing that I don't?)

-- Jim

[Robert]

I don't like to dish guitar players other than myself, so I'm staying out of this one! :) However, I have no problems mentioning Kenny G if you ask me about over-rated sax players.... ;)

[tunghaichuan]

You guys are going to hate me but:

SRV.

There, I said it.

I have and I like Texas Flood, but Soul to Soul and Couldn't Stand the Weather sound exactly alike; all the songs sound exactly the same to me.

While I like SRV (but think he's overrated), one of the downsides to his legacy is all the slavish clones he's inspired. It wasn't enought just to cop his licks, they had to cop his look as well.

I think Yngwie Malmsteen is also overrated. Sure he's fast, but I get bored listening to him after about 10 seconds of his playing. He also is guilty of inspiring many clones who were no where near as talented as him.

Forgot to add: Since I'm slaying sacred cows, I'll add Eric Clapton. Sure he was incredible with John Mayall and Cream, but what has he done for us lately? The turning point for me was when I listened to From the Cradle. If you don't believe me, contrast the song "Third Degree" with Johnny Winter's version (the title song from his album Third Degree). Winter's versions slays Clapton's (IMHO).

tung

[Lev]

+1 for Jimmy Page - he's one of the best Riff composers ever but his solos leave me cold. Would say the same for Richie Sambora.

Can't believe Joe Bonamassa was mentioned! I think he's underrated if anthing, I also think he was a glaring omission from Clapton's Crossroads event.

[R_of_G]

Others have had the cajones to list Page and SRV, both of which I happen to agree with by the way. Page is a great riff-creator and has co-written some killer songs, but that's all he does for me, and SRV I like, but don't worship. Well, take out your flamethrowers because my second vote in this thread goes to .... Eddie Van Halen. I respect the speed, though I have heard and seen much faster. Other than speed, the guy does NOTHING at all for me. His tone is horrendous, and I was never a fan of VH's songs or sound. I once had a debate with a friend over whether or not EVH was an "inventive" player [his choice of words, not mine], but the friend couldn't quite pin down anything Eddie invented. Sorry VH fans, but Eddie def comes in #2 for me for over-rated guitarists.

[duhvoodooman]

FWIW, I did a little poking around on the net and came acoss a couple of web links for lists or discussions of overrated guitar players. Here are some names I kept seeing again and again. Just passing along; I agree with some, disagree with others, and have no freakin' idea for a couple!


Kurt Cobain (most frequently mentioned, from what I saw)
Slash
Tom Morello
Kirk Hammett
Yngwie Malmsteen
Zakk Wilde
Jimmie Page
Carlos Santana
Eddie Van Halen
Eric Clapton
The Edge
Billie Joe Armstrong
Noel Gallagher
Angus Young
Neil Young
Jimi Hendrix

Yes, you read that last one correctly. There are people who think that Hendrix was an overblown hack who relied on sonic effects rather than real talent--at least, that's what they said!!

Clearly, there are no right or wrong answers to a question as subjective as this one....

[duhvoodooman]

You guys are going to hate me but:

SRV.
I hate you. ;)

[tunghaichuan]

I hate you. ;)

I sorta figured you would :)

If it makes you feel better you can say the Buckethead and/or David Lindley are overrated and I won't hold it against you :beer:

tung

[Spudman]

Aunt Jemima. There are so many better.

[marnold]

Is there a purpose to calling people "overrated"?

[R_of_G]

Is there a purpose to calling people "overrated"?

I posed the question, so I will take a shot at answering it... First, it was in response to the "unsung guitar heroes" thread. I thought since we were already giving some thought to who was under-rated or under-appreciated, the polar opposite was a natural jump.

In general, I think the purpose is in analyzing what we subjectively enjoy or don't and figuring out why. With this thread specifically, I wanted to explore guitarists each of us has heard or read [or both] a good deal of positive review, but don't personally agree with such. As with any thread like this, the answers are completely subjective [though everyone has been explaining their answers].

Basically it comes down to this... for years whenever someone finds out I am a guitar player the discussion always comes down to who I listen to, or who I think was the best, or some form of that question. There are guys names that get thrown at me all the time [usually after I go about 10 guitar players into my list and still haven't hit any of the names besides Jimi that they are thinking of]. So, I mean no disrespect to any of the players I mentioned, they just don't do it for me the way they seem to for others.

[duhvoodooman]

Is there a purpose to calling people "overrated"?

Since R_of_G gave a logical and well thought out answer, I'll take the wiseguy approach. Several possibilities:


1) It makes a bunch of third-rate hacks like us feel better about ourselves to denigrate players who are about 10 times better than we can ever hope to be.

2) Same basic purpose as slowing down to look at traffic accidents or watching those "reality" shows.

3) Needed some good argument fodder on a slow day at TheFret.

4) Calling them "overrated" is much more civil and genteel than saying that they "suck out loud".

Seriously, you raise a good question, Marnold. I guess it's part of the human condition to rank our fellow man and then pick those rankings apart. But it's not one of our more admirable qualities, is it?

[R_of_G]

Since R_of_G gave a logical and well thought out answer, I'll take the wiseguy approach. Several possibilities:


1) It makes a bunch of third-rate hacks like us feel better about ourselves to denigrate players who are about 10 times better than we can ever hope to be.

2) Same basic purpose as slowing down to look at traffic accidents or watching those "reality" shows.

3) Needed some good argument fodder on a slow day at TheFret.

4) Calling them "overrated" is much more civil and genteel than saying that they "suck out loud".

Seriously, you raise a good question, Marnold. I guess it's part of the human condition to rank our fellow man and then pick those rankings apart. But it's not one of our more admirable qualities, is it?

Excellent answer DVM, way to read through the lines of my dipomacy! Actually, I am, admittedly, overly analytical about most things I am into, music moreso than anything else. However, the more I develop as a player, the more I realize how much of an asset that anyaltical approach is to my playing. Like I said in my prev post, the "over-rated" thing was a way of looking about which players are widely considered "great" and analyzing whether this is something we agree with, and why. Knowing why I do and don't like certain tones or styles or techniques has been a huge influence on how I approach my own playing.

In fairness, I also admittedly like making fun of that which I don't like [or even what I do for that matter]. I used to want to be a comedy writer so I can't really help myself.

[Spudman]

It's a bit like the joke:

How many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb?


6 - one to change the bulb and 5 to say how much better they could have done it.

[Justaguyin_nc]

Hendrix definate overblown... Guitar Johnny blows him away...
SRV... again.. it's just a memory.. a good one but thats it..

Both..had great songs... both unfortunately died young.. and leave those few tunes behind.. that we all cherrish.. but what if they lived...

Randy Roads.. I like Crazy train.. but thats it..


Robert Johnson... I want to play all his songs..but I dont know why?

Robert Renman..sure he plays a few licks.. but does he ever join in on a jam on thefret.net?

Ok, I kinda heated this up... best get out of dodge now..

:beer:

[duhvoodooman]

It's a bit like the joke:

How many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb?

6 - one to change the bulb and 5 to say how much better they could have done it.

That joke sucked. I could have told it much better than that! :whatever: :D

[Spudman]

That joke sucked. I could have told it much better than that! :whatever: :D

Now hold my ladder steady.:whatever:

[ted s]

Interesting stuff here. Myself, I listen to what I like and haven't thought about over-rated before. Many players mentioned that I am somewhat surprised to see listed, others that I have never really grown to appreciate.
What if... (take Jimi or Stevie or Eric for example) the question was posed at the "top" of these guys' careers, would they possibly still be considered over-rated, or ground breaking ? Maybe we see the old dogs as over-rated because we have seen/heard so many other fantastic players come along in the past 30 years ?

Just thinking out loud.

[just strum]

FWIW, I did a little poking around on the net and came acoss a couple of web links for lists or discussions of overrated guitar players. Here are some names I kept seeing again and again. Just passing along; I agree with some, disagree with others, and have no freakin' idea for a couple!


Kurt Cobain (most frequently mentioned, from what I saw)
Slash
Tom Morello
Kirk Hammett
Yngwie Malmsteen
Zakk Wilde
Jimmie Page
Carlos Santana
Eddie Van Halen
Eric Clapton
The Edge
Billie Joe Armstrong
Noel Gallagher
Angus Young
Neil Young
Jimi Hendrix

Yes, you read that last one correctly. There are people who think that Hendrix was an overblown hack who relied on sonic effects rather than real talent--at least, that's what they said!!

Clearly, there are no right or wrong answers to a question as subjective as this one....

Some of those mentioned I wouldn't think of as guitarist in the sense that their playing is the main focus of what they released. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say they purchased a CD because of the playing by any of those noted below. I think of their playing more as background, whereas someone like Hendrix CD's are purchased primarily for his playing.

Kurt Cobain (most frequently mentioned, from what I saw)
Slash
The Edge
Billie Joe Armstrong
Neil Young

[LagrangeCalvert]

I hate most of you now < ---- on a level that cannot be described :bootyshake:

Your "overrated" list is mostly the guys I look up to.

I don't have an overrated list as I HATE to bash other players no matter how much more A** they get than me...how much more money or hit songs they write.

BUT everyone is entitled to an opinion AND you know what they say..

opinions are like buttholes...everyone has one and they all stink!

I agree that there are some guitarists that "suck out loud"...but I'm deff. NOT slinging names around! just my .02 cents.

[duhvoodooman]

Some of those mentioned I wouldn't think of as guitarist in the sense that their playing is the main focus of what they released.
And that's the gist of much of the "pushback" I saw for some of those players, with the exception of Slash and the Edge.

[pes_laul]

hmm where do i start Zakk wylde
jimi page
malmsteen
steve vai
joe satriani
randy rhoads (yes he was good though)
Stevie ray vaughan( even know he's my 2nd favorite guitar player)
eric johnson

The list goes on.....

[marnold]

I can accept R of G's and DVM's explanations for this thread. I think to add some value (and a certain degree of difficulty), perhaps we should add specifically why we think such a guitarist is overrated.

For example, I could accept someone saying that SRV is overrated if their reason for it was because so many people try to cop his style too closely and he has released more albums in death than in life (a la Tupac). I would argue that his influence cannot be overrated just because of the number of people (myself included) who got introduced to the blues through him.

One thing I've always noticed about criticism (I'm using that term in the most positive way possible) of any form of art is that it often says as much about the critic as it does about the artist. I take that to be A Good Thing (tm). To my way of thinking, that's something that art should do, whether that art is objectively good, bad, or indifferent.

[Iago]

Anyway.. Did I say before that SRV is waaaaaaaay over-rated? :D

[duhvoodooman]

Yes, you did. Which gives you the distinction of being wrong twice in the same thread! :D

[R_of_G]

One thing I've always noticed about criticism (I'm using that term in the most positive way possible) of any form of art is that it often says as much about the critic as it does about the artist. I take that to be A Good Thing (tm). To my way of thinking, that's something that art should do, whether that art is objectively good, bad, or indifferent.

Excellent point Marnold. It goes to the heart of the question for me... is art in the process or the product? In my estimation, the answer is "both." For the artist the "art" moments come in the creation of the piece, while for the critic/fan the "art" moment comes in the subjective interpretation. It's why, for example, we may think we know what a certain song is "about" and we may have excellent reasons to think so, but only the artist knows what it is about to him/herself. As Jerry Garcia once said about recordings "once we're done with it, it's theirs."

[birv2]

This is a tough one, particularly since anyone who's recorded has SOME chops. Also, I like to think I can learn something about playing from just about anybody I hear, no matter their "talent level" or genre.

I don't have a particular guitarist in mind, but I think the whole concept of shredding is way overrated. Not that all shredders are overrated. But I think the ability to play fast is way overrated. I admire the technical proficiency and wish I had half the speed, but as a blues guy, I always go back to the Kings (Freddy, Albert, BB), Muddy, Otis Rush, etc. It's all about a few well-chosen and SOULFULLY PLAYED notes and riffs.

For instance, the BB King/Clapton album "Riding with the King". EC can play rings around BB. But BB can hit one or two notes and just stab you through the heart. And I say this as an EC fan (but a bigger BB fan).

Just my .02,
Bob

[Big_Rob]

Billie Joe Armstrong

I forgot about him

Yeah, he does suck rather badly

[just strum]

I forgot about him

Yeah, he does suck rather badly

but sucks at what? For me he sucks as a guitarist, but as a writer, I think he's good. Now before I get slammed, I am a big fan of the 2.5 to 3 minute song. Early Greenday had a knack for laying down a story line and wrapping it up within that 2.5 to 3 minute time span.

Elvis Costello's "My Aim Is True" for me is one of the best ever recordings and I say that because of the stories that were told on that CD.

Opps, hit post too soon. Again my point is that some of the choices being made have nothing to do with overrated guitarist, because so many were never known, and in some cases, considered guitarists.

[TS808]

My vote goes to Jimmy Page too as being over-rated. Another goes to Kenny Wayne Shepherd.

Kenny Wayne is a great guitarist, but I got his latest album "10 Days Out" where he sits in with some blues GREATS....the solos on most of the songs sound like the same solo rehashed over and over. The guy has chops, but maybe needs a little more in terms of originality.

[sunvalleylaw]

but sucks at what? For me he sucks as a guitarist, but as a writer, I think he's good. Now before I get slammed, I am a big fan of the 2.5 to 3 minute song. Early Greenday had a knack for laying down a story line and wrapping it up within that 2.5 to 3 minute time span.

Elvis Costello's "My Aim Is True" for me is one of the best ever recordings and I say that because of the stories that were told on that CD.

Opps, hit post too soon. Again my point is that some of the choices being made have nothing to do with overrated guitarist, because so many were never known, and in some cases, considered guitarists.


I agree wholeheartedly. I guess it is why I have problems with best/worst guitarist lists. At my skill level, and really because I am mainly a consumer of music, I like what moves me. For example, Neil Young, regularly listed as overrated, moves me more than other guitarists whose pure guitar skills far exceed his. Cobain, Costello, Billy Joe, Warren Zevon, the Ramones, they all move me. I do like the well crafted 2 to 3 minute song too. A lot. Skills are important, but without something that moves me, I'm not likely to listen. Therefore, someone can be considered a good musician in my book, even if their skills are less than some (or many) others.

Longer and more complex music moves me too. Just was thinkin' about the short stuff right now. :)

[abraxas]

This whole thread is a total joke.

And you can take it whatever way you want. I'd expect such threads in harmony central, not thefret. :nono:

What is especially priceless is that you offer opinions on musicians totally out of context. The examples of EVH and BB Kink were particularly hillarious.

Anyway, sorry for the interruption, you can continue bashing whoever you don't particularly like (or simply don't care about). "Better or worst" musician? This is not F1 racing people.

I'll go listen to some music.

[Spudman]

This whole thread is a total joke.

And you can take it whatever way you want. I'd expect such threads in harmony central, not thefret. :nono:



Good point. :AOK:

[Robert]

Good point.

[R_of_G]

What is especially priceless is that you offer opinions on musicians totally out of context. The examples of EVH and BB Kink were particularly hillarious.

Well as I was the one who offered the opinion on EVH, would you mind telling me what was "out of context" about it? I said he is given credit for being an "inventive" guitarist but nobody can tell me what it is he invented. Since the thread is on "over-rated" players, pointing out the flaws I see with some claims made about EVH seem as relevant as it gets. If you can clarify for me what is "out of context" about it, I'd be glad to hear it. Not to be too nitpicky about it, but I started the thread, so wouldn't you suspect I might have some insight as to the context of the thread? If you're just put off because I "disrespected" EVH in some way I can deal with it, but when you cite it as a particular example of what's wrong with this thread, I'd like some more info.

The only other thing I critiqued about EVH is his tone. Tone is subjective so if you disagree with me there, go right ahead, we each like what we like.

[Big_Rob]

but sucks at what? For me he sucks as a guitarist, but as a writer, I think he's good. Now before I get slammed, I am a big fan of the 2.5 to 3 minute song. Early Greenday had a knack for laying down a story line and wrapping it up within that 2.5 to 3 minute time span.

Elvis Costello's "My Aim Is True" for me is one of the best ever recordings and I say that because of the stories that were told on that CD.

Opps, hit post too soon. Again my point is that some of the choices being made have nothing to do with overrated guitarist, because so many were never known, and in some cases, considered guitarists.
Nah, Greenday is another band I really dont like, Too me they are fake punks. Im not taking away from Billies writing because he can write some catchy tunes such as Basket Case.

BuUuUuT,,,,

I think that Billie Joe is waaaaay over rated as a guitarist (Ill even go as far as saying I though it was dumb for Gibson to give him his own line of Les Paul Jrs) for the simple fact is all he does is strum 3 chords in rapid succession.

Now Im in the know about the 3 chord trick and all, but its not like it takes a guitar god to firgure it out.

[Spudman]

Well as I was the one who offered the opinion on EVH, would you mind telling me what was "out of context" about it?

Here. The world can tell you. Go to "Influence on culture, music, and business"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Halen#Influence_on_culture.2C_music.2C_and_bus iness

[birv2]

This whole thread is a total joke.

And you can take it whatever way you want. I'd expect such threads in harmony central, not thefret. :nono:

What is especially priceless is that you offer opinions on musicians totally out of context. The examples of EVH and BB Kink were particularly hillarious.

Anyway, sorry for the interruption, you can continue bashing whoever you don't particularly like (or simply don't care about). "Better or worst" musician? This is not F1 racing people.

I'll go listen to some music.

Wow. Since I mentioned BB King, what was out of context? As far as I recall, I was simply saying that "good" or "bad" guitarist depended on your perspective. Mine was that technical proficiency alone does not a good guitarist make. Example being BB King. Maybe I'm misreading you. I also said at the beginning of my post that I learn from everyone (hopefully).

I totally agree that it's not F1 racing, where you have clear winners and losers.

Again, maybe I'm misreading you, Abraxas, but I'm kind of surprised to be on the receiving end of that post.

Bob:confused:

[R_of_G]

Here. The world can tell you. Go to "Influence on culture, music, and business"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Halen#Influence_on_culture.2C_music.2C_and_bus iness

That article is about VH's "influence" on music, not EVH's "inventive" guitar playing. There is a difference between being an influential musician and an inventive musician. My question was and remains "what, if anything, did EVH 'invent'?" He often gets credit for the tapping technique, but he clearly did not invent it.

[duhvoodooman]

Looks like some folks are taking this thread WAY too seriously. C'mon, lighten up! Just because it's the TheFret and not Harmony Central means that opinions can't be offered on a somewhat contentious subject?? Have we truly become that "controversy-averse" here? What makes this forum different than 95% of what I've seen on the web is that differing opinions are almost always handled in a mature and good-natured way, without getting into personal attacks and "flame-fests".

I'd also point out that the subject was "who is OVER-RATED?" That means "to be held in higher regard than is deserved." So it's very possible to consider a player over-rated but still a very fine guitarist. I think that came out in many of the examples cited here. To my mind, that hardly constitutes "bashing". Not that there isn't some bashing going on here! ;)

Bottom Line: These are merely opinions stated here, purely subjective perceptions. Accept them as such and don't get your shorts in a bunch just because they don't match your own....

[abraxas]

OK. The last thing I want is to get into an argument about personal (musical) preferences. Let me make myself clear:


I loathe discussions like this. They generally degenerate into debates of the type “tell us who you hate/despise/envy” which only help to bring forth whatever is worst in people. Music is about achieving the opposite.
There is a misconception about artistic (and economic) success. There is ALWAYS a reason. There are NO overrated “successful” people in Art. Yes, even Britney. There are underrated artists, of course, but not the opposite. Everything must be examined in perspective to the specific era and its cultural particularities.
If you find someone deserves more attention, fine. Buy their CDs. Go to their concerts. Visit their myspace or other webpages. Tell your friends. Do the exact opposite with those you don’t like (for whatever reason), but DON’T tell your friends, except if asked about. And then a simple, “doesn’t do for me” is enough. And fair.

That’s all, always IMHO. Peace brothers. :beer:

[sunvalleylaw]

Good point. :AOK:

Yeah, you guys are right. I wish I hadn't even posted to it. I don't mind having personal discussions like this, but they don't work out well here. Back to our normal abnormal discussions. :) :pancake

[R_of_G]

OK. The last thing I want is to get into an argument about personal (musical) preferences. Let me make myself clear:


I loathe discussions like this. They generally degenerate into debates of the type “tell us who you hate/despise/envy” which only help to bring forth whatever is worst in people. Music is about achieving the opposite.
There is a misconception about artistic (and economic) success. There is ALWAYS a reason. There are NO overrated “successful” people in Art. Yes, even Britney. There are underrated artists, of course, but not the opposite. Everything must be examined in perspective to the specific era and its cultural particularities.
If you find someone deserves more attention, fine. Buy their CDs. Go to their concerts. Visit their myspace or other webpages. Tell your friends. Do the exact opposite with those you don’t like (for whatever reason), but DON’T tell your friends, except if asked about. And then a simple, “doesn’t do for me” is enough. And fair.

That’s all, always IMHO. Peace brothers. :beer:

So, in short, critical thinking is to be frowned upon? To my knowledge, this thread never turned into the slippery slope of "who do you hate" that you suggest typically happens in these cases. Instead what we got was thoughtful perspectives on subjective issues. To me, this will ALWAYS me more interesting than a passing "yeah I don't like them." Maybe I am too academic in my approach to things, but I wouldn't trade that for a completely passive approach in this lifetime. Perhaps I am just not as aversed to disagreement so long as there is reasoning behind it. I never think less of anyone for their own subjective thoughts, I just like to know that they actually have them. Like I said, from what I saw in this thread, everyone seemed to have their reasoning for what they did or didn't appreciate about these artists. It doesn't change my mind, nor do I expect my opinions to change anyone elses. It's called discussion.

[just strum]

So, in short, critical thinking is to be frowned upon?

If that is another opinion question, my response is - No, it should not be frowned upon, nor discouraged.

[LagrangeCalvert]

Yeah, you guys are right. I wish I hadn't even posted to it. I don't mind having personal discussions like this, but they don't work out well here. Back to our normal abnormal discussions. :) :pancake


I disagree with you on this for a couple reasons:

This is the fretnet....the ONLY forum/site where I have posted how I felt and not gotten flamed or ran out the door...If you cannot discuss who you think is Overrated in this forum, you probably cannot anywhere else. I may disagree a helluva lot with most of your choices BUT there your choices so I respect that, because I respect all of you.

I don't mind or loath these discussions because I KNOW you people even if its on a electronic level, so conversation is ALIVE here, it doesn't feel stale/cold/unattached to the person who posts it.

If I didn't know you guys, I would hate it, because it would turn into something resembling a verbal mosh pit......

I think a conversation/discussion like this can happen here....I wrote this in another thread on welcoming people and I will copy/paste it to give you something that can show you why it could/can happen here.

Everything below this is from another thread.....enjoy

another thing....this is the only forum where everyone has enough self respect to argue/laugh/talk and have lexical intercourse on a adult level.....

Not to get all "standing on a soap box" but have a listen please:

The reason people have no morality and get much worse than IRATE on other sites of all kinds is there is no actual human contact, so there are no consequences to the hate they sling around at everyone for no reason since its not tangible or its so disconnected form the real world you can do/say what you want on the INTERWEBS and get away with it....

I really believe its different here because so many people ...A) Have invested there selves in this site and the people here to make worthwhile friends/relationships. B) Are more mature and a Different breed to a certain degree.

Maybe websites should make you invest more of yourself into it (not money either) somehow so its more than a place to bash someone for any good reason..... I see so much hate... just go onto youtube and glance at the comments on videos....

:::::STEPS OFF THE SOAPBOX:::::


On another very positive note...AWESOME to have you hear bob....and since your from a PA.....and Im from Cincinnati....that could only mean one thing (if I was a normal Cincinnatian)

GO STEELERS!!!!!!!


Hope to hear tones from ya man!

[Spudman]

On another very positive note...AWESOME to have you hear bob....and since your from a PA.....and Im from Cincinnati....that could only mean one thing (if I was a normal Cincinnatian)

GO STEELERS!!!!!!!



I think the Steelers are overrated. :deadhorse: :D

[LagrangeCalvert]

I think the Steelers are overrated. :deadhorse: :D

So are potatoes, Idaho, Skulls and a huge collection of guitars!:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Tone2TheBone]

I agree with what Lagrange is saying. I don't think anyone should regret what they've said or done here. I don't see any harm in talking about who we like or don't like and why. We all know each other for the most part and friends talk about stuff like that all the time. No big deal. We're mature we can handle it.

And I think the use of the beating the dead horse smily is overdone and overrated so there!

:messedup: :)

[Spudman]

So are potatoes, Idaho, Skulls and a huge collection of guitars!:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Exactly!:D

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, can I have a wishy washy flip flop smiley? (for myself of course). LOL!!

[just strum]

I agree with what Lagrange is saying. I don't think anyone should regret what they've said or done here. I don't see any harm in talking about who we like or don't like and why. We all know each other for the most part and friends talk about stuff like that all the time. No big deal. We're mature we can handle it.

And I think the use of the beating the dead horse smily is overdone and overrated so there!

:messedup: :)

I agree. I think we've all been members or lurked at other guitar sites where flame outs and bashing were the norm and arrogance reigned supreme.

This is a good forum that has an environment that is conducive to constructive criticism.

Now about those Steelers - definitely overrated - come on, winning isn't everything.

Signed Disappointed Browns Fan (year after year after year after...)

[LagrangeCalvert]

if Its Brown Flush It D. O. W. N.

[just strum]

if Its Brown Flush It D. O. W. N.

Chad?

[LagrangeCalvert]

Im Josh....Im from Cincinnati....But I'm a Steelers fan and proud of it.....

The Bengals are OVERRATED!

[pes_laul]

oh yeah I forgot to add kurt cobain even know hes probaly my favorite songwriter and one of my favorite guitar players people do give him a little to much credit the reason for that i think is because in the 90's they had just come out of Eddie and jimmy p's crazy solos and kurt was considered a guitar hero because they had just come out of that era and those were the only kind of solo's people did