Epiphone Valve Special Amplifier

[Danse]

I'm looking for a small tube amp for home.

Does any one have an comments on the Epiphone Valve Special, or other recommendations under $300.00

Thanks,

[250Keith]

If you like the Epi, get the head and cab combo it's a 5watt little tone monster, I think it's about 250 for the head and cab, check sweet water or one of the other outlets.

[Danse]

Thanks Keith

I'm new to electric, so any advise is welcome. From what I see the Valve jr only has a volume adjustment.

The Valve special is also 5 watts but has Gain, Middle, Bass, DSP, Reverb, Master Volume, and stand by . It sells for about $250.00.

I've tried the Valve Jr combo, but they did not have the special in stock.
I cranked it up in the store, boy it's loud. Like the option of a gain and master volume on the special.

your thoughts?

[250Keith]

Ya the Vjr has only the Vol, but it takes pedals well, you can look on ebay for moded Vjrs, I think the Vjr & cab is the best bang for the buck, I'm going to pick one up after the first of the year.
Get on youtube and look at all the vids on this little amp I tink it sounds great.

[tunghaichuan]

I took a look at the Valve Special schematic.

It has a higher gain preamp than the Valve Junior. The first 12AX7 tube has both triodes operating in parallel. The second gain 12AX7 is configured with the first triode as a gain stage direct coupled to the second triode which is configured as a cathode follower driving a treble/middle/bass tone stack. The signal out of the tone stack drives the DSP section. From there it goes into a single ended EL84 section, which looks close to the Valve Junior's output section.

I've never seen or played a Valve Special, but I would guess that both amps use the same output transformer. They probably are both similar in volume levels. As you've noted, 5W can be very loud for home practice.

There are two opamp (solid state) chips driving the DSP section and are in the signal path, if this matters to you.

To contrast, the Valve Junior has no tone control(s) or master volume. The signal path is all tube though, unlike the Valve Special.

HTH,

tung

[250Keith]

I was looking at the Valve stanard and the special and I got the Blues 30, to much bad stuff writen about the DSP on these models, noisy, alot of hiss.

[Danse]

Tung,

Could you clarify a few things for me?

''There are two opamp (solid state) chips driving the DSP section and are in the signal path, if this matters to you.
To contrast, the Valve Junior has no tone control(s) or master volume. The signal path is all tube though, unlike the Valve Special.''

If you don't use the DSP on the special, do you basicly have the Valve Jr +
tone control(s), master volume, and standby in all tube trought?

Thanks,

[tunghaichuan]

Tung,

Could you clarify a few things for me?

If you don't use the DSP on the special, do you basicly have the Valve Jr +
tone control(s), master volume, and standby in all tube trought?

Thanks,

The DSP may switch in and out of the circuit, but it looks like the opamps are always in the signal path.

The Valve special only has two tube gain stages before the EL84 power section. The first stage is the parallel 12AX7. Since one triode of the second tube is used as a cathode follower to drive the tone stack, it has no gain of its own; in fact, is just a little shy of unity gain. There are the op amps. So I'm guessing that there is more gain on tap in a Valve Special than a Valve Junior. I've heard of some modders bypassing the opamps and DSP section, if that is true, the Valve Special's preamp would by similar to the Valve Junior: two gain stages before the power amp.

HTH,

tung

[Danse]

Thanks for the info Tung

[LagrangeCalvert]

There are a couple mods you can do (or get done depending on your skill level with solder and skee-mats) that can make the Valve Jr. an unbeatable amp for the price.... I have done two of them.....one is very simple and IMHO essential to making a VJ sound better....

First...there are brite switches, dark switches....gain switches...tone knobs, standby.... light bulb attenuators (to make it a 1-2 watt amp...so it breaks up way earlier) to very expensive mods like Tranny Mods - and im not talking about gender bending.

Changing the preamp tubes can give you some serious headroom, and warmer tones.... Not to mention that you can choose 4/8/16 ohm cabs....

IMHO the special with all its cheap tone pots and Digi effect cannot hold a candle to the Little VJ with its one Volume... it has way more life and presence than the Special.

Hope this helps.... I've noticed when playing the Special amp, the DSP pretty much is useless and sucks the tone straight outta this amp.

[Danse]

Thanks LagrangeCalvert
Ah.....the answer I was looking for!
If I understand you correctly.
The additional tone, volume.......of the Special are not good, and not worth it.
Better off getting the JR and modify to your taste.

I can read SKee-Mats and solder no problems,sudied electronics in college and have been building speakers for hobby since 2000. I'll have to read up a bit on guitar speakers, not the same animal as HiFi.

So I guess I'll look into a Jr Head, and build my own cabinet. Then maybe modify later.

Thanks again!

[tunghaichuan]

I agree with LagrangeCalvert. If you can do the mods yourself, the Valve Junior is a cool little amp.

The latest versions (ver. 3) have had some improvments over versions 1 & 2, but they still can be improved. Ver. 3 has a black PCB and a 16-digit serial number.

I would suggest changing the PCB mount pot and jacks. I used modern-style Cliff jacks with solder tabs in my VJ and I replaced the dinky volume control with a full-size Alpha pot. Once you replace the volume pot, you can add a tweed-style tone control using another full-size, 1meg Alpha pot:

http://www.diycustomamps.com/valvejunior.htm#vjtonecontrol

The other thing that Epi did to improve the latest version was to replace the 7.5k OT with a 5.2k OT. The 7.5K OT was really more for a Champ/6V6. You still can replace the stock OT with a Hammond 125ESE, which is overkill, but sounds very good in the VJ.

If you want to go hog wild, you can completely replace the stock PCB with a turret or eyelet board:

http://www.turretboards.com/valve_junior_page.htm

Lots of choices there.

I believe the current version comes with JJ tubes, which sound pretty good. You can get better sounding tubes by moving up to NOS, though.

Finally, this thread is an encyclopedia of Valve Junior mods:

http://www.gibson.com/products/epiphone/forum/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=4&tid=177713

tung


Thanks LagrangeCalvert
Ah.....the answer I was looking for!
If I understand you correctly.
The additional tone, volume.......of the Special are not good, and not worth it.
Better off getting the JR and modify to your taste.

I can read SKee-Mats and solder no problems,sudied electronics in college and have been building speakers for hobby since 2000. I'll have to read up a bit on guitar speakers, not the same animal as HiFi.

So I guess I'll look into a Jr Head, and build my own cabinet. Then maybe modify later.

Thanks again!

[marnold]

The latest versions (ver. 3) have had some improvments over versions 1 & 2, but they still can be improved. Ver. 3 has a black PCB and a 16-digit serial number.
Any specifics on what has changed?

[tunghaichuan]

Any specifics on what has changed?

Epi changed some of the values in the preamp, version 1 & 2 had values closer to the Gibson GA-5 reissue. The new values are more in line with a Champ. They also changed the PCB to a higher quality board, which is black. Versions 1 & 2 had a lower quality green PCB.

They changed the OT to 5.2k for the primary, down from 7.5k which is more in line with a Champ/SE 6V6 OT. They changed the PT, which used to have an unused 12v-0v-12v winding (probably for the DSP/SS stuff use in the Valve Special). I believe they lowered the plate voltages. Versions 1 & 2 had pretty high plate voltages for an EL84 in SE operation.

I believe the newest version comes stock with JJ tubes, which are an improvement over the Sovtek tubes that came stock in versions 1 & 2.

There is still some room for improvement in the preamp, power amp and power supply, though.

tung

[marnold]

Epi changed some of the values in the preamp, version 1 & 2 had values closer to the Gibson GA-5 reissue. The new values are more in line with a Champ. They also changed the PCB to a higher quality board, which is black. Versions 1 & 2 had a lower quality green PCB.

They changed the OT to 5.2k for the primary, down from 7.5k which is more in line with a Champ/SE 6V6 OT. They changed the PT, which used to have an unused 12v-0v-12v winding (probably for the DSP/SS stuff use in the Valve Special). I believe they lowered the plate voltages. Versions 1 & 2 had pretty high plate voltages for an EL84 in SE operation.

I believe the newest version comes stock with JJ tubes, which are an improvement over the Sovtek tubes that came stock in versions 1 & 2.

There is still some room for improvement in the preamp, power amp and power supply, though.
Thanks for the run-down. What do these changes mean for the amp practically? In other words, what differences would I hear between v1/v2 and v3?

[Danse]

Tung good stuff!

I've found this site as well.

http://www.thetubestore.com/modkits.html

The BitMo Studio 10-uator Mod Kit for the Epiphone Valve Junior looks interesting, maybe a must so I don't drive everyone crazy in the house.

[y2kgtp]

I wish I found about the valve special (5w) before I eBayed a Valve Standard.....I really don't need the 15w output.

[oldguy]

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=4711

[sunvalleylaw]

Hi Oldguy! Nice to see you!

[250Keith]

Just like a Elephant he never forgets:beer:

[oldguy]

Yeah, the "old" 18w was where I first ran across Tung...... he had some soundclips that were awesome, and I picked up a soldering iron without thinking......:rotflmao:

[tunghaichuan]

Thanks for the run-down. What do these changes mean for the amp practically? In other words, what differences would I hear between v1/v2 and v3?

Sorry Marnold, I let this thread get away from me before I could respond.

Epi changed the 68k grid load resistor to 1 meg which is more in line with what a 12AX7 wants to see. Using a 68k resistor chokes the input, it's the same as having a 1meg volume control turned down so that it reads 68k.

They changed the 2.2k preamp tube cathode bias resistors to 1.5k. These bias the 12AX7 a little warmer so that the amp doesn't sound as thin. Some modders go down to 620 ohms for these resistors. This low of a value will make the amp really warm and crunchy sounding when over driven. Epi left the 22uF cathode bypass the same.

The 7.5k OT made the amp sound a little flat and lifeless. I haven't heard the new 5.2k stock OT version of the amp, but others say that the new OT is on a par with the Hammond 125CSE mod, there is better bass response and the amp doesn't sound as thin. Most recommend leaving the stock OT in place unless replacing with a Hammond 125ESE, which is about 2x the size of the 125CSE and about 3x as big as the stock OT. The 125ESE is still a valid mod as it provides even better bass response.

The JJ tubes sound better to me than the Sovtek tubes did. There is a bit better treble response with the JJ tubes, than the Sovteks which sound kind of blah.

The new PCB and lowering the B+ are reliabilty tweaks. Lowering the B+ not only extends the life of the tubes, the amp will sound "browner" and less harsh than when the tubes are over voltaged.

HTH,

tung

[Danse]

Well I picked up a valve combo and pleased with it.

I will change the output transformer. I've been looking at the Weber WSE 15.

Does anyone have a recommendation for 8'' speaker replacement, Weber have quite a few, not sure on the one that would be good?

Thanks,

[mrmudcat]

well I love the vintage voiced alnico jensen p8r:drool:

for a 64-67 champ,54-60 princeton tweed sound check around for prices music123 wants $89.99:reallymad: while some others are from $50-65:AOK: of course any alnico in 8 inch form would rule!:Dude:

maybe a celestion super8:munch:

[mrmudcat]

danse:looking at the weber sight it is amazing the amount/variety of 8 inch alnicos:Dude:

I want to try the chicago vintage,the vintage, but the british blue pup sounds like a great alternative to the vintage voiced ones:beer: