What's more important - the guitar or the amp?

[Robert]

Here's another question that might lead to interesting answers... no flaming I hope!

Ok, for me, when it comes to the tone and sound, I feel the amp is more important than the guitar. A cheap, somewhat crappy instrument can still sound very good through a quality amp, but the reverse is rarely the case, in my experience. If you have a terrible amp, it doesn't help much to have a guitar of highest quality, it's still gonna sound crappy.

However, what's the point of having good tone if you can't stand playing the guitar you're holding? My point here is that for enjoying playing, the guitar is more important than the amp. I don't mind playing a really nice guitar without an amp! Playability, the feel of the neck and body, frets, setup, hardware, etc - all come in to play in how much I like playing the guitar. Mostly it's the feel though - how you connect with it. I've played many expensive guitars I did not connect with it at all. I simply didn't like playing them, but then some of my cheap Squires I really love. Go figure.

So the goal for most of us - get a good guitar and good amp!

What's your thoughts?

[Spudman]

You forgot...a good set of hands.:)

I'll go with guitar because my hands can make it sound good in almost any amph.

[just strum]

I'm going with the guitar, although the more I play around with the AD30VT, I see the importance and flexibility of an amp. Once I get some pedals I will be a friggin mad man:beavisnbutthead:

I agree with Spud and it eventually comes down to the hands. Also, a amp needs a guitar, but a guitar doesn't need an amp.

[birv2]

I'm voting for the amp, since it's between the amp and the guitar, not the hands. I think anyone with a strong tone will sound more or less like themselves with any gear combination. But I agree with Robert -- a so-so guitar can sound great with a great amp (assuming a good player).

That's one of the reasons I got the Vampire modelling amp -- you can get so many different sounds out of various amps (even digitally modelled ones) with the same guitar. I had the Epi Valve Jr head and I was getting bored of that one sound. Different amps = different sounds.:AOK:

Bob

[pes_laul]

I believe in the amp because I play the the most broken down guitar ever and It sounds great running through my line 6

[SuperSwede]

Good guitar, if it doesnt sound properly unplugged no amp in the world can save the tone.

[Jimi75]

okay, okay, this is a very difficult question. Here's what I tink:

Theory 1: The sound is in the fingers
- Saw a video of SRV playing through a Fender Frontman 15 99USD Amp. sounded like he always sounded. The same for Hendrix - no matter which guitar or amp the tone is the same.

Theory 2: The amp makes the sound
- Think of so many classic amp sounds like CLassic Rock Marshall or Fender Bassman sounds that defined eras.

Theory 3: The guitar makes the sound
- Millions of discussions about wood, weight, age, and tons of other blabla. Do we hear a difference? Sometimes yes sometimes no. The price says nothing as far as the craftmanship and the materials are okay, but again this is personal flavour. There are people who love the sound of their plastic guitar and sometimes those guitars define genre sounds.

All in all, to me Robert R. was the first person on the net that I met who had the "mission" to show how good cheap equipment can sound. That is why I go with theory number ONE and I am aware of the fact that this theory was no part of the original thread!:rotflmao:

[Plank_Spanker]

Good question!

There are plenty of players who fret every detail on the "tone woods", construction, etc of the guitar.....................and seem to give the amp just a passing thought. The amp is the bigger player (but not by much) in the tone equation, IMHO. A good guitar will sound like garbage through a garbage amp, while a not so great guitar might be passable through a better amp.

I believe truly "great tone" comes from the magic combination of the guitar, the amp, and the player's hands. Some amps need to "played" just like the guitar in order for them to shine. My Germino is like that. It will bring out every nuance of your playing - right along with every bit of bad technique that you might have. What comes from the amp is a direct result of your hands.

Les Paul + Germino = Good tone

Les Paul + Germino when I'm dialed in nicely = The tone of gods :D

In the end, the guitar and the amp support each other, and one is not exclusively responsible for the sound.

[wingsdad]

I go with the 'marriage' concept...actually, the 'melange a trois'. Guitar, amp & hands (esp. right hand technique & touch).

'More Important' is the tuffie here. There's so many variables.

Guitar: regardless of its body and/or fingerboard wood, there's the pickups - humbuckers? single coils? alnico or ceramic mags?

Amp: Solid State? Tube? Hybrid of both? Speaker(s): size? magnet? open or enclosed cab?

Hands/Right Hand: fingers or pick? what type of pick? Material, thickness, round or sharp edge?

In the end, I go with the Guitar as the deciding factor. Because 'in the beginning' -- IMO, while some would argue Les Paul, the 'Supreme Deity' would be Leo Fender, the radio repairman who built his 1st amps with only one knob: volume. The guitar's pickups, circuitry and controls did most of the rest of the tone-shaping.

[t_ross33]

Going back to the Skill Level thread, I will preface this with the caveat that I consider myself a relative newbie, in spite of playing for 30 years :rotflmao: My recent journey into full-on guitar playing has brought a steep learning curve and thanks to the internet and forums like this one (which weren't around 30 years ago) I'm discovering things at an alarming rate.

Up until recently, I would have put all my stock in the guitar being the lone factor in the tone equation. Just LOOK at them! Guitars are damn sexy :pancake But I believe that the amp/speaker combination is the bigger player for most of us. The guitar's construction, body style, type, pickups etc. all factor in, as does the obvious skill (or lack thereof) of the player. But the amp/speaker is charged with not only reproducing, but coloring the signal in a very specific way.

Until I reach the skill level of SRV, Hendrix or even our beloved Spudman - I'm voting AMP.

[duhvoodooman]

First, as the question was posed (amp or guitar), I think we need to take the player out of the equation. Not that he/she isn't supremely important and relevant to overall tone and sound--it's just not what Robert asked.

Of the two, I have to agree with Robert. A mediocre guitar can sound pretty darned good coming out of an excellent amp. Not so the reverse, IMO. Believe me, I know from firsthand experience. When I first got my Strat Plus, which is a wonderful guitar, I was playing it through a POS super-cheap Fender SS amp that was thrown in with the deal. Other than the clean channel, the guitar just always sounded crappy coming through that amp. It wasn't until I got my Vox AD30VT--not an outstanding amp, but still a very good sounding one--that I really began to appreciate the sound of my Strat. When I got the Delta Blues and heard those sparkly single-coil tones through a good tube amplification chain, the Strat's tone took another step or two upward in my estimation.

By the same token, my Fat Fully is a very inexpensive guitar, even with the upgrades I've made to it. But through those two amps, I get very, very respectable tones from it, despite how cheap it is. It certainly sounds worlds better than the Strat Plus did through that SS abomination.

I tend to look at it as kind of a tonal "chain of custody". The notes leave your finger tips, travel through the strings, into the pickups, out through guitar's electronics, through your pedal chain (if you use one), and then go through the amp and out its speakers. Though your tone can get screwed up countless ways along its journey, the amp "has custody" of the notes last and has the most immediate impact on what reaches your ears. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.... :D

[Plank_Spanker]

I tend to look at it as kind of a tonal "chain of custody". The notes leave your finger tips, travel through the strings, into the pickups, out through guitar's electronics, through your pedal chain (if you use one), and then go through the amp and out its speakers. Though your tone can get screwed up countless ways along its journey, the amp "has custody" of the notes last and has the most immediate impact on what reaches your ears. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.... :D

Well said, DVM.......................................and your conviction does us all proud! :D

[LagrangeCalvert]

Well....here it goes (for me at least) and it might be not the exact answer to Robs question.

I think in matter of importance it goes like this:

Your Style/Ability

The type AND quality of amp your playing through

Your ability to set up/ Dial in Tone on amps....this is an important factor I haven't heard anyone talk about.

The HARDWARE of the guitar then the neck type, scale length..then the woods.

The Pedals/effects...type of cables



To me this is the order of importance in finding good tone.......and to answer R/R's question simply: The Amp and your ability to dial in tone(s) with it.

I don't think the guitars materials play nearly as big a role in the tone as the Hardware...now this isn't saying the type of guitar like a Epi Dot compared to a solidbody...thats different.


How many of you have seen the player with ok chops, a killer amp, awesome guitar, and huge pedalborad with uber amount of $$$ pedals......and the person still has crap for tone or sound......Personally I see it a lot here in Cincinnati. We have probably on any given night close to 6 jams(blues and rock) going anywhere in the greater Cincinnati area with pretty steady turnout and see this often....where people bring there own rig and end up sounding bad. Then theres the old guys who bring a fender pro JR's or champs, a strat and a cable and sound like gold....I dunno....maybe im just :whatever: :reallymad: that I don't have the money to have the rigs some of these people do......I will stop ranting.

And as far as Hendrix and SRV having great tone out of crap amps...when you can play the way they did, it IS possible to polish up a turd (cheap amp).... but its still a turd. Not to mention, I have heard some just plain garbage tones from Jimi....and with chops like SRV, IMHO we tend to overlook dumb tone due to "shock and awe"



Thats all.....of.....my .... :) :) cents!

[Radioboy950]

Interesting...
I have this "beater" guitar (First Act), which actually sounds pretty darn good when played through my Fender modeling amp. In this instance, the "amp" theory rings true.

However, this particular guitar really doesn't stay in tune, and the action is a little funky...not exactly helpful when learning to play.

I'd say start with a quality guitar, get an inexpensive practice amp, then upgrade the amp down the road.

[LagrangeCalvert]

I'd say start with a quality guitar, get an inexpensive practice amp, then upgrade the amp down the road.


Thats what I did 19 years ago.....I would bet most of us started off this way...with an all right guitar and a not so great amp...then upgrade as ability upgrades!

[Spudman]

Until I reach the skill level of SRV, Hendrix or even our beloved Spudman - I'm voting AMP.

LOL. That's the first time I've ever been included in the same sentence with those guys. I'm flattered. Your prize is my secret recipe for my transvestite vampire Halloween costume and some Smarties. :D

[Spudman]

I think in matter of importance it goes like this:

Your Style/Ability

The type AND quality of amp your playing through

Your ability to set up/ Dial in Tone on amps....this is an important factor I haven't heard anyone talk about.

The HARDWARE of the guitar then the neck type, scale length..then the woods.

The Pedals/effects...type of cables

To me this is the order of importance in finding good tone.......and to answer R/R's question simply: The Amp and your ability to dial in tone(s) with it.



This brings me back to the guitar (hands really) being the most important.

Example: I got to get up on stage and use a well known regional act's equipment during an event. The full act was to go back on after I played. My bass playing friend and I used the act's drummer to do a short set of tunes. When I was done the guitarist comes up to me and excitedly says "what did you do to my amp? How did you set everything because I've never heard it sound so good?" I looked him in the eye after a long drink of my beer and said, "I didn't touch anything."

Same amph - different sound. How do you account for this? Guitar+player.

That said...if a guy can do that with a so-so amph then playing through a really great amph is Nirvana. Since thefret is all about GAS I suggest you get both a good guitar and amph so you can hear your screamin solos sounding really good.:D

[sunvalleylaw]

Thats what I did 19 years ago.....I would bet most of us started off this way...with an all right guitar and a not so great amp...then upgrade as ability upgrades!

That is what I did last year when I got going. Got my guitar, played through a borrowed epiphone SS amp, then got my Peavey. I don't pretend to have chops or tone yet, even though my gear is decent. But once in a while, some decent sounds come out by accident. :pancake

so my answer is I can't argue with what Robert started the thread with, but I needed to get a guitar that felt right in my hands to develop some chops to make some tones with my fingers. :Dude:

[LagrangeCalvert]

There is no denying that your hands/ability start the chain of events that make the guitar, amp and speakers do what they do...I say some people can turn anything to gold when they touch it, and other have to hunt down the elusive tone beast. Spud, I guess your just one of the lucky ones....I kinda am too, but at the same time, me personally - I can tell a difference in a crap amp when I hear it with someone of your playing ability plays through it, and for instance a better tube amp....In no way am I the "wine taster" or "master brewer" of guitar/amp tone, but Im a gear freak and have a decent amount of years under my belt....

Spud, I concur that hands and how you wrangle your axe has a huge say on how everything sounds at the end...but a good amp set up good results in great sonics...even if playing ability is so so....I know that may sound contradictory to what I said about hearing people at the jams I frequent...but I was talking about actual SETUP of their gear in that statement. Just so I don't get flamed or scoffed at I wanted to clear that up.

So....spud are you one of the SRV type strat players who has H-bomb heavey attack on your pick hand and serious grip on the neck when doing blues, blues/rock?....I'm deff. not saying you do not have picking dynamics and smooth texture (I listened to some of your stuff in the Jam/collab. section)...but I find if you attack a strat you get some killer SRV style sounds out of it.


I wonder if this is true with Drummers...that its all in the hands and feet?
" " with Woodwind players ...is it in the mouth and hands?



The more I think about it Spud...the more your thought process on your subject seems to be correct, cause I have had the same thing happen to me when Jamming with friends or at Guitar Center/music shops.....Damn you and your potatoes :LMAO:

[Spudman]

I totally agree LC.
At the end of my post I succumb to the fact that a great amph makes a difference.

[Tone2TheBone]

I'll say the amp.

[Robert]

I added a poll - let's have a vote! Only 2 options, screw the fingers this time, hehe.

[Justaguyin_nc]

I have to go with the amp..
Even at my low level of playing..
I heard the biggest difference when using good amps.
Since I got the Hellhound and Bassman Hooked Stereo
I even like my offkey sounds..:) which number more than on key!

With that said.. Im getting a toneport for a laptop
and trying one more time..lol

With the digitals and cheaper sounding amps..
I could barely stand myself..
not enough experience to make them sound good.
Now at least I can make windows shake with a thump!

[just strum]

I'm being lazy, plus I'm at work and short on time so I didn't read to see if anyone mentioned this. It would depend on the type of music.

With Dylan, it would lean toward the guitar being more important because you aren't really looking for different effects and tone. If it was Hendrix, well it's just the opposite. I voted guitar, but I just wanted to make this point.

[Adrian30]

I added a poll - let's have a vote! Only 2 options, screw the fingers this time, hehe.

:rotflmao:
I like that, Robert.

Well, I say amp is more important, and that's just because I don't have a decent one. So, I figured if I vote for amps, maybe a good one will find his way to me...:D

[just strum]

:rotflmao:
... So, I figured if I vote for amps, maybe a good one will find his way to me...:D

Let me know how that works out for you.

[jpfeifer]

I think that amp is actually more important than the guitar. A good amp can even make a crappy guitar sound good. But a bad amp pretty much sucks the tone from anything you put in front of it.

-- Jim

[Adrian30]

Well guys, I just tried a Mesa Boogie Studio 22+ at the local GC. To put it simple - it blew me away. These are the guitars that I played through it:

Jackson with two passive EMG humbuckers
Ibanez RG (something)
2 different Epi SGs (one MIK one MIC)
Epi archtop with P-90s
MIM Strat
And finally I looked hard through the store in order to find a really crappy guitar, so I grabbed this used Austin strat. (yeah I know, but it's a slow evening at GC). Anyway, even the Austin sounded really good - like a "real strat".

I think that’s going to be my next purchase.:)