Have Mercy....

[duhvoodooman]

...because (1) this is the first time I've ever tried this, and (2) my meager skills certainly don't do the material justice. But I wanted to try that Audacity software and also demonstrate the SRV tone I've been working to achieve with my VOX Valvetronix AD30VT.

The linked audio clip is recorded with my Strat Plus, pickup selector at the bridge/middle position, using the Black 2x12 amp model (see Top Panel settings diagram HERE (http://duhvoodooman.com/AD30VT/SRV_P&J.gif), as soon as I can get it posted) with a bit of reverb, and "dirtied up" with a Digitech Tone Driver on the TS-808 emulation setting. I apologize for the poor audio quality, but all I had to record through was a cheap little telephony microphone that came bundled with an old modem card. I set the thing up about a foot in front of the amp and started banging away. Hopefully, it's good enough to at least demonstrate the SRV tone, which sounds pretty close to the real deal, at least to my amateur ears.

Forgive the quality of the playing. I'm sure that with a few more "takes", I could have done a better/cleaner version, but my intent was NOT to showcase my marginal skills. Couple that with the fact that SRV tunes are a tremendous challenge, in any case. It's incredible to me how effortless he was able to make a Texas shuffle tune like "Pride & Joy" sound, especially when you consider that he plays both rhythm & lead simultaneously! Particularly difficult (for me and a lot of other guitarists, from what I've read) is to duplicate his amazing skill at cleanly muting the strings on the upstroke, which gives that great shuffle rhythm. I'm not sure that I'll EVER be able to do that, no matter how much I practice.

Anyway, with all due apologies to Stevie, here's the link:

SRV-PnJ.mp3 (http://duhvoodooman.com/audio_clips/SRV-PnJ.mp3)

[SuperSwede]

Have you tried to record the Vox with the line out?

[duhvoodooman]

Not yet, because I'll need a cable or adapter to go from the 1/4" phone plug to the 1/8" input on my PC's sound card. Got any ideas on where best to get that?

Will the line out give authentic sound quality? I thought I read that the line out is in between the preamp and the power amp on the ADxxVT's....

[warren0728]

i got an adapter at radio shack...although i haven't recorded anything yet :D

I think the line out is before the modeling effects but your pedals should work...plus once you get it into the computer you can add any effects you want!

ww

[Robert]

Line out on the Vox really sucks. Don't do it!

Nice sound you got Voodoo. I have a video lesson coming up soon on that song, by the way.

[SuperSwede]

One option would be to get a Hughes & Kettner redbox, a real nice speaker sim that you connect to the line out of a amp. I think Behringer has a cheapo copy of it as well.

[duhvoodooman]

Line out on the Vox really sucks. Don't do it!

That's kind of what I thought. When my wife gets tired of listening to me torture my guitars, she makes me play through headphones, and the tone quality goes right in the toilet. I'm pretty sure I recall that the line out is before the tube/power amp, which is the whole key to the Valvetronix amp's tube-like tone.


Nice sound you got Voodoo.

Thanks! Now, if I could just play SRV worth a !@?#$%&!


I have a video lesson coming up soon on that song, by the way.

Cool! Let me know when, so I can check it out.

Question: What kind of microphone should I buy that would (1) more accurately capture the tone from my amp speakers, and (2) be reasonably priced (i.e. CHEAP!)?

[Robert]

Simple answer to this one: Shure SM57



Question: What kind of microphone should I buy that would (1) more accurately capture the tone from my amp speakers, and (2) be reasonably priced (i.e. CHEAP!)?

[Spudman]

I'll second the SM 57 choice.

[Justaguyin_nc]

If I am not mistaken (I probably am) The lineout from 1/4 will be mono... to put it to stereo... Radio Shack has a 1/4 to 2 RCA which is about a 6 foot cable.. and then an Adaptor for 2 rca to 1/8 to get into the sound card.. least thats What I have and had to go that way for some reason.... or maybe they just didn't have the right one... been awhile... but can't remember exactly why?? but..this also works and is always available at a radio shack...


Nice Sound DuhVoodoo.......... keep'em comming...

[duhvoodooman]

Well, it still needs a lot of work, but this seems much better than the first try. This is by running the line out from the AD30VT to my PC, using a 1/4"-to-1/8" reducing adapter from Radio Shack. The bass is too boomy and the recording level was a bit too high, but other than that, the tone is pretty close. Seems to have a lot more oomph and life to it than the first version through that crummy little mic I used. Tell me what you think:

SRV PnJ Take 2 (http://duhvoodooman.com/audio_clips/SRV-PnJ_2.mp3)

Again, the playing could certainly be improved, but I dashed this off quickly this morning before getting ready for work. I'm better after a cup of coffee, honest!! :D

I'll try recording using a decent mic next.....

[duhvoodooman]

Simple answer to this one: Shure SM57

Thanks, Robert. I'm "shure" you're right, but $90 is more than I'm willing to drop on a mic, given what I'd be using it for and the limited amount of use it would get. However, I poked around at Musiciansfriend.com and found some decent alternatives in the $20 range from Behringer and Nady. I'm sure they aren't up to the quality & reliability standards of the SM57, but got many very complimentary customer reviews--several from professional musicians--and are almost certainly more than adequate for my purposes.

[Spudman]

Voodoo

The recording is pretty distorted. The level is way hot and the resulting clip makes the sound less than desirable. Try turning down the input gain. Sounds good otherwise.

I think the $20 Behringer mic sounds pretty good to me too. I'll probably get one myself. Hey, it's only $20. One thing to consider though is that it is an SM58 copy and may have a proximity effect unlike the SM57. Also the reviews say that it is hotter than a 58 so it may not handle the SPL's that a 57 would. That you might be able to adjust for.

[Robert]

But it's ninety bucks well spent! Just think about how much guitar pedals go for. Pedals come and go, but a SM57 is a keeper for life.

I heard Samson has some good mics too, and their products are inexpensive.

The sound is clearer, on this clip but that line out tone is there. You got better result than I have though.

[duhvoodooman]

The recording is pretty distorted. The level is way hot and the resulting clip makes the sound less than desirable. Try turning down the input gain. Sounds good otherwise.

Yeah, I agree. Like I said, I dashed it off quickly this morning, just to try out the "line out" recording method. Didn't have any time to fool around and try to optimize the recording conditions. Hope to be able to do a bit of that tonight.

One advantage of using the line out rather than a mic is that it keeps my wife from coming in the back room and telling me to turn the !%#$@&*! thing down!!! :D

[Justaguyin_nc]

I have one of those Behringer XM8500 Microphones being the cheap guy I am.. It feels fine..looks fine.. and for me works fine although I doubt it equals a Shure 57... I know its well worth 20 bucks though.. Robert wasn't there something about bypassing the effects when using lineout on the AD series? making it about useless for recording?

[Robert]

It bypasses the valve when you use line out, not the effects.

Well not useless maybe, but anytime you use distortion or overdrive sounds, I find it sounds very articifial and cold. You may get away with it for cleaner sounds, but I much prefer miking the amp.

[warren0728]

i'm going to look into micing my vox (and valve jr.) instead of using the line out....will a mic by itself be ok or do i need a mic pre-amp too (to record directly into my mac)

thanks,
ww

[Tim]

Warren – On the Seymour Duncan forum, some players have used the cheap lapel microphone that you can buy at RS. You just have to find the correct distance, loudness and placement of the microphone. Some of the songs upload sounded pretty good.

[warren0728]

interesting tim...would have never thought of that.

If that is the case does that mean if i get a shure 57 or behringer equivalent i won't need a preamp?

ww

[Robert]

Warren, what kind of sound card do you have? You need a mic preamp if you use a microphone. The mic input on cards like Soundblaster have a preamp of sorts, but they are terrible.

[warren0728]

it's built in to my apple powerbook....here are the specs....my guess is i will need a preamp...any suggestions?

Built In Sound Card:

CODEC: Texas Instruments TAS3004
Sample Rate: 44.1 KHz
Number of Inputs: 2
Number of Outputs: 2
Devices:
Input:
Type: Line Level Input
Input:
Type: Internal Microphone
Output:
Type: Headphones
Output:
Type: Internal Speaker

[SuperSwede]

Warren, you dont need a preamp but it will be easier for you to get a better sound using one, especially if it is a tube preamp. Again, Behringer has a cheapo that is supposed to be really good according to a test in my fav guitar magazine...

[duhvoodooman]

This is the one I came across:

Behringer XM8500 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270490)

[SuperSwede]

That mic seems to have rather good specs..

Anyway, here is the mic preamp I talked about:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Signal/Processors?sku=182482

[warren0728]

thanks guys...not as expensive as i thought it might be

but going direct sure seems easier!

ww

[Nelskie]

Have mercy . . . ? Really, you shouldn't taunt a ZZ Top fan like that. Here I'm thinking I'm gonna be diving into some discussion about tasty, full-tilt, Texas-style boogie-woogie, and you guys are talking . . . um . . . microphones??! Zoiks!!

My .02 worth on it is this: There is a BIG different between a budget microphone and a Shure SM-57 - both sound / fidelity wise, and long-term / durability wise. Of course, I fully understand budgetary constraints, and the sacrifices one often makes for the sake of "just getting by" (believe me, I know that!) The SM-57 has been a live / studio recording staple since its inception, and there's a good reason why. It flat out sounds great. Plus, it's super versatile - live, studio, close-miked, whatever, it flat-out delivers the goods. I use my SM to direct-mic my amp(s) straight into my Zoom MRS-8 DAW, and it works flawlessly. My live-cut tracks always have a full, well-rounded live tone to them, which is exactly what I want.

For $89 bones, you can virtually guarantee that whatever you use it for will sound great. Money well spent in my book. If I had a choice between (4) cheap mic's or (1) SM-57, I'd take the SM-57. No contest whatsoever. In my book, it's one piece of indispensable gear.

[SuperSwede]

Have Mercy!
waiting for the bus all day, nelskie?

[Nelskie]

With my brown paper bag, and my take-home pay. Er . . . wait a sec, with my brown paper bag, and my Shure SM-57! Natch.

[duhvoodooman]

Here I'm thinking I'm gonna be diving into some discussion about tasty, full-tilt, Texas-style boogie-woogie, and you guys are talking . . . um . . . microphones??!
Well, to be fair, we did start this thread with with me mutilating an SRV Texas shuffle, but it just degenerated from there.... ;)

[Nelskie]

Nothing of those sorts, Voodoo. You are making music, my friend, and that's a great thing. Be proud of what you do.

[duhvoodooman]

You are too kind. I just wish I could turn what I hear in my head into notes on the guitar with more efficiency! I kid about it, but I dearly enjoy this stuff, and even though it doesn't come out as well as I'd like, I sure won't stop trying!! I just hope to get a little better each day.

Now, back to banging on my son's new Tele. I'm just, er....checking it out and making sure it doesn't have any major defects! Yeah, that's the ticket.....

[SuperSwede]

Your son should be glad that you are breaking in his new guitar... ;)

[warren0728]

You are making music, my friend, and that's a great thing. Be proud of what you do.
that's what i keep telling myself!

When Tim and I were at Ron's, ron was ribbing us about my lack of talent (wondering why anyone would drive 90 minutes to jam with me!)....but then said "No matter how bad we think we are, we are better than 99% of the people we meet/pass on the street, because they don't play at all."

ww

[Tim]

Amen Brother Warren! That Ron is a smart man and knows how to kid around. I still can't believe he spent about 45 minutes just talking about home recording while other customers came into his store. He also is very knowledgeable of the merchandise he carries in his store.

[Nelskie]

"No matter how bad we think we are, we are better than 99% of the people we meet/pass on the street, because they don't play at all."

You know, even though that statement about playing isn't a closely guarded secret, it's amazing how difficult it is for beginning / newer players to come to that realization. And once they do . . . whoa! It all starts coming togther. When I started out, I remember looking guitar playing like a ladder, and taking it one rung at a time: learning how to tune a guitar; playing my first chord; playing my first chords together; learning my first song straight through; learning my first solo straight through; my first jam session with another player; my first jam session as part of a band; and so on and so forth. The things you pick up along the way, stuff about tone, effects, playing techniques, licks-n-tricks, etc., they just enhance what you're already doing, which is playing guitar, whatever skill level that may be. Which as that statement asserts, IS better than 99% of folks on the street.

So, when you talk about the learning process, one must understand that it really never ends. Warren - you and I are both at pretty much the same point in learning stuff about recording. And you know what, as difficult as it seems right now, five years down the road, when you and your kids are cutting tracks together, or you are putting out original stuff on your own, or with your buddies, it'll seem like old hat. And you'll probably laugh about it, too. But then starting thinking of all of the things playing guitar has given back to you. True - everyone aspiresto be a great guitarist, but rarely is skill the true measure of the value of your playing. ;)

[duhvoodooman]

....everyone aspires to be a great guitarist, but rarely is skill the true measure of the value of your playing. ;)
Very well said, sir! While I'll never be the guitarist I'd like to be, I've derived many, many hours of pleasure & relaxation from picking these 6 strings, however ineffectively!! Like I tell the wife, it sure beats wandering the streets!! ;)

[warren0728]

Very well said, sir! While I'll never be the guitarist I'd like to be, I've derived many, many hours of pleasure & relaxation from picking these 6 strings, however ineffectively!! Like I tell the wife, it sure beats wandering the streets!! ;)
very true voodoo....although sometimes after an hour or so of my playing the wife wishes i WAS wandering the streets! :D

ww

[duhvoodooman]

very true voodoo....although sometimes after an hour or so of my playing the wife wishes i WAS wandering the streets!
Hey, Warren, I wouldn't worry about it unless she starts wandering the streets! ;)

[warren0728]

Hey, Warren, I wouldn't worry about it unless she starts wandering the streets! ;)
good point....you are a wise man voodoo :D

ww

[Nelskie]

That's when you work a love song she likes into your jam session, ww. I learned about a dozen or so of my wife's favorites, so when things run afoul, I turn down a bit, find a nice clean channel, and become her "personal minstrel". It works. I kid you not! ;)

[warren0728]

my wife actually likes it better when i play the acoustic....i tend to get carried away when playing the 'lectrics

ww

[SuperSwede]

Warren, you are not doing those T-Bone Walker moves are you?? ;)

http://twtd.bluemountains.net.au/cream/img/t-bone.jpg