Is it worth it?

[TS808]

Just my experience, but I thought maybe this would be helpful, and maybe others have some experiences to share as well...

I've been playing guitar now for a long time and have gone through a TON of gear over the years. I think back to all the gear I've owned, only later to trade it or sell it for something else, which again, I would later sell or trade....

Bottom line: I finally spent a little more on some gear as I'm tired of buying "average quality" guitars and amps, only to trade them later or sell them on ebay because they just didn't deliver in terms of tone or quality. Plus, I've bought "okay" guitars and amps, and after sinking additional money into pickups, better bridges/tremelos, speakers, etc., I might as well have spent the extra money up front.

I'm not equating price with quality, as there are some good, quality guitars out there for reasonable prices (e.g., Highway One strat, Jimmie Vaughan strat, etc.).

But, for the first time in a long time, I'm totally SATISFIED with my gear (who would have thought it?).

My opinion: It's worth it to spend a little more and get some quality gear. It will save you in the long run, and I believe you'll be more satisfied. Plus, the resale value is alot better if you do decide to sell or trade.

Anyone else go through the "buying for the sake of buying/saving" only to be disappointed in the end?? Has anyone else found that waiting a little bit and getting some better gear paid off?

It's been a good experience to finally have the tone I want in my gear.

[oldguy]

It's worth it if it keeps you motivated. :beer:
I've never spent big money (+$1,000) on a guitar or amp, never made a habit of buying $99 ones either (Squier '51's the exception, and a good little axe). I usually think ahead as to what I might want to add versus impulse buying because "Hey, what a bargain!!" comes along. Buying equipment you really want, and will use, is the key to staying motivated and enjoying playing.

That being said, if somebody is really gassing for a boutique amp and $3000 custom shop axe, and have the funds, I applaud them, go for it!
If, on the other hand, a Valvetronix and SX will keep someone excited about playing, great.

Most of my gear is good quality, which brings me to another point you made.
As far as my own personal tone, I've found when I start feeling "this should sound better", and thinking I need to buy something different...... it's usually about the same time I've hit a plateau in my playing and need to practice more and learn something new. That's just my personal experience, I'm not suggesting that about anyone else. But I did find it interesting that I'd buy a new piece of equipment, start practicing like crazy, thinking it had improved my sound, and then.....
go back to the setup I'd used 6 months ago and think "Hey, this didn't sound bad, what was I thinking?"
So ya, if it keeps you motivated, go for it. Quality gear, whatever the $$$ amount, is always worth it, IMO. But I really buy new gear (usually), just 'cause I got the G.A.S.
Now let me ask you this......
How do rate that Agile you have, because I'm thinking I need a Paul style guitar, and from the features they seem to be a better value than Epiphone.
Some of the Epiphone's are nice, but no ebony fretboards or abalone inlays.
Are the Agile's PU's, switches, hardware good, fair, poor...? If I wait to get a "real" one, I'll be saving quite a while, which kind of goes back to your original question.
If you were doing it over again, would you buy, say, a $500 Agile, or wait and get a $2500 Gibson?

[just strum]

I guess it comes down to what is quality equipment? IMO the gear should not hinder your ability to learn or diminish your desire to learn. A guitar that isn't set up properly or is impossible to be set up properly obviously isn't worth keeping or purchasing in the first place.

My price range on guitars for the most part in the $300 to $500 range. I've purchased new and used and I feel for the most part all was decent equipment except for the Squire Bullet, but fortunately it did not diminish my desire to learn to play. I also was fortunate to get two free guitars - my Epi SG (G400) and my Epi Dot. The first was brand new and the second could be considered brand new.

I don't think there is a day that doesn't go by where I don't GAS for a new guitar, but I'm satisfied with what I have. I really don't have a guitar that I am considering selling or trading, so I guess that is a sign of content.

If it doesn't diminish your desire and it doesn't hinder your learning ability, then I think you have assembled a good selection of equipment. I have often compared guitars to my past golfing addiction. I have about 4 or 5 drivers and probably went through 3 or 4 sets of clubs (both high end and low end) and none of them ever made me a better golfer, however they did make me enjoy the game a little longer. Boy, if I had all that golf money back I could buy a really nice... (drifts off into a dreamy state of mind).

Hey oldguy, if you are looking for a LP, I have mentioned before that it is worth your time to check out the Ibanez ARC300 or ARC100. I feel they play better than the EPI and although I never tried the Agile, my money would be on you liking the Ibanez better. From all the research I did and all the reviews I read before I bought mine, it is one of the better deals out there.

[TS808]

As far as my own personal tone, I've found when I start feeling "this should sound better", and thinking I need to buy something different...... it's usually about the same time I've hit a plateau in my playing and need to practice more and learn something new. That's just my personal experience, I'm not suggesting that about anyone else. But I did find it interesting that I'd buy a new piece of equipment, start practicing like crazy, thinking it had improved my sound, and then.....

This is a GREAT point too...it seems that as we progress too, we become more satisfied with our tone and there's not a need to constantly look for that "magic fix".


How do rate that Agile you have, because I'm thinking I need a Paul style guitar, and from the features they seem to be a better value than Epiphone.
Some of the Epiphone's are nice, but no ebony fretboards or abalone inlays.
Are the Agile's PU's, switches, hardware good, fair, poor...? If I wait to get a "real" one, I'll be saving quite a while, which kind of goes back to your original question.

I'll tell you what...I kept hearing about how great the Agile guitars were, and I kept wondering if it was all hype or if they were really that good. Well, they REALLY are that good.

I had previously owned a LP Studio some years back (mid 90's?). The Agile AL-3000's are just as good believe it or not. The hardware on the AL-3000's are nickel-plated, the pots are as good, as are the switches, and the fretwork and finishes are flawless. That's why I bought a second one. Some people do swap out the pickups (the stock pups are alnico on the 3000's), but personally, I find them to be just as good as on the LP Studio I owned.

For $369, you can't beat it. If it were made in the US, this guitar would go easily for $700 or more and be well worth it. Both AL-3000s I own are flawless. I have been tossing around the idea of getting a Gibson, but I think it's more "brand name" attraction than anything. The Agiles are a definite notch above the Epi's I've played, and close if not equal to some Gibsons, in my opinion.

[oldguy]

I'll tell you what...I kept hearing about how great the Agile guitars were, and I kept wondering if it was all hype or if they were really that good. Well, they REALLY are that good.

I had previously owned a LP Studio some years back (mid 90's?). The Agile AL-3000's are just as good believe it or not. The hardware on the AL-3000's are nickel-plated, the pots are as good, as are the switches, and the fretwork and finishes are flawless. That's why I bought a second one. Some people do swap out the pickups (the stock pups are alnico on the 3000's), but personally, I find them to be just as good as on the LP Studio I owned.

For $369, you can't beat it. If it were made in the US, this guitar would go easily for $700 or more and be well worth it. Both AL-3000s I own are flawless. I have been tossing around the idea of getting a Gibson, but I think it's more "brand name" attraction than anything. The Agiles are a definite notch above the Epi's I've played, and close if not equal to some Gibsons, in my opinion.

Thanks, that's what I was expecting, almost everyone on the Fret has said nearly the same thing.:AOK:

[R.B. Huckleberry]

Cool thread idea. I am of a mind that the gear is only ever worth what it is worth to you. It can all make a sound. It is up to you to whether or not it is making your sound.

I've been through a lot of guitars & amps in the last 20 years. Some of it very much on the "this is all I can afford" side of things. The stuff I have now looks expensive on paper, but the circumstances behind each are proof that even I can get lucky.

I waited 20 years to get a PRS. from 2003 to 2005 I obsessed about it. I sold just about every guitar I owned (kept the G&L ASAT and my Hamer) at the time I received my annual bonus from work in March 2005. I drove to the store with a little over 3 grand. I had been playing PRSi for months. I thought I knew what I wanted.

A new arrival caught my eye when I walked in I played it. I smiled I hung it back on the wall. I played the "contenders" I had been eyeing. Price was not an object just this one time. Between each of the contenders, I picked up the new arrival. I got halfway to the counter with a Custom 24 model: sunburst 10-top, bird inlays, gold hardware...a PRS to top all PRSi.

The owner asked "you all set, R.B.?" I paused. I said "no".

I grabbed the new arrival. Turns out it was the least expensive US-made PRS there: a McCarty Standard. All mahogany (no maple top), vintage natural finish (clear-coat/not color), no whammy bar, no locking tuners.

Beyond the fact that I had finally "bought a PRS", I found the guitar that felt & sounded like that big fat vintage humbucker tone I heard on all te old records my step-dad used to let me borrow when I was a kid. I played it yesterday. I had the same feeling for it that I did nearly 3 years ago.

Now, the PRS example is a bit much, but as it relates to the topic: is the sound there? is the feel there? Then it's a great instrument. It's a great instrument for you.

A lower price? That's the icing on the cake.

[jpfeifer]

Hi TS808.

Yes, I agree with you on this one. Sometimes it's hard to justify spending the extra $ on good gear but often times I regret buying the cheaper stuff because I'm always messing with it to get a decent sound later (changing out pickups, replacing hardware, etc)

The other thing that I've learned over the years is to buy gear for the tone more than the features. I once bought a multi-effects unit with a ton of sounds and features but later hated it because none of them had a decent tone that I could use. In the end it's better to have a few pieces of gear that have useful tones more rather than a ton of features.

-- Jim

[TS808]

Yes, I agree with you on this one. Sometimes it's hard to justify spending the extra $ on good gear but often times I regret buying the cheaper stuff because I'm always messing with it to get a decent sound later (changing out pickups, replacing hardware, etc)

That had pretty much happened to me too. The best example I could think of was buying a MIM Standard strat, which is actually a pretty decent guitar. But I didn't like the stock pickups so I remember throwing in a set of Texas Specials for another $125.00, then later some graph tech saddles because the originals saddle screws were starting to strip (another $35). By the time I was done I had $349 + 125 + 35 = $509. Then if you really get into buying the heavier Callaham block for the tremelo, you're now in the territory of a Jimmie Vaughan strat.....no need for a pickup change, and also has the American vintage tremelo. And of course, I later traded the MIM strat for something a little better.

I just think of all the money spent in "upgrades" over the years chasing after that "tone".

[pie_man_25]

In my own opinion, it's worth it if you can afford it all at once, I mean, when I was looking for my bass, after a while I knew I wanted a fender jazz style bass, I could have got a squier new, save a bit on a jay turser used, or spend the exact same on a used fender, sure enough I got the fender used because I could only shell out $300 tops, and I couldn't afford a new fender, If I got one of the others I may have modded it.

[just strum]

Another thing you have to keep in mind is what do you consider a quality guitar. I have a friend that has owned a few Fender strats and tele and his thoughts on Fender is they are all crap. He wouldn't take one for free. He also owns an older ES335 Dot and a Rickenbacker 360/12. His finances allow him to spend more money and those two guitars are very nice, but I wouldn't consider buying them. He also probably looks at my guitars as junk and would consider the same of yours. To him the money we spend on our guitars is like throwing money away.

I think you have to keep what you purchase in line with your ability. I don't think owning his ES335 would make me any better of a guitarist than my Epi Dot, nor do I think it would heighten my enthusiasm for playing.

Now I will admit that I have a major case of GAS right now for that orange Gretsch 5120. It won't make me play any better, but boy would I look cool:D

[Brian Krashpad]

My first rule is if it don't play well stock, I don't buy it. Or if I have to buy without being able to play first (happens less and less), I don't keep it. I don't sink all kinds of money into "upgrading" guitars.

That said, I've bought guitars for a Benjamin that I have no prob gigging dead stock, despite that I also own fairly nice USA guitars from a number of different makers (Fender, Gibson, Ric, Hamer, Ovation, Peavey). I don't buy just to buy. I have a couple other requirements in addition to being giggable stock; one, it must be a good deal at it's respective price point (I won't buy a guitar for $150 even though that's not much, if it's really only a good deal at $100), and two, it should add something sonically to the collection in terms of construction, pickups, or other features. So, for example, although I have 3 Teles, each has a different pickup configuration and wiring scheme.

[Spudman]

My first rule is if it don't play well stock, I don't buy it. Or if I have to buy without being able to play first (happens less and less), I don't keep it. I don't sink all kinds of money into "upgrading" guitars.

That said, I've bought guitars for a Benjamin that I have no prob gigging dead stock, despite that I also own fairly nice USA guitars from a number of different makers (Fender, Gibson, Ric, Hamer, Ovation, Peavey). I don't buy just to buy. I have a couple other requirements in addition to being giggable stock; one, it must be a good deal at it's respective price point (I won't buy a guitar for $150 even though that's not much, if it's really only a good deal at $100), and two, it should add something sonically to the collection in terms of construction, pickups, or other features. So, for example, although I have 3 Teles, each has a different pickup configuration and wiring scheme.

Ya, what he said. Same goes for me.:)

[tot_Ou_tard]

Right now my Godin Radiotor ($150 on eBaY), Godin SD ($170 eBaY) and my Fender Champion 600 (I've changed the tubes to a NOS RCA triple mica blackplate 5751 & a JAN RCA blackplate 6V6) still gets my blood flowing.

...I'm dreaming about a new ax & I'll probably combine xmas & bday gifts to get something sweet. The amp brings me to my knees right now.

I've got some really nice cables & have absolutely no interest in buying pedals, effects, cheap gitfiddles, or other things. I want to wait until the guitar that rings my bells (& I can afford) comes along. So I agree with TS808.

I have no interest in GAS for GAS sake...for me it's play what I've got & wait until I know what'll really do it for me & then buy *that* when I can.

Next year I'll probably be thinking about a cab, or an upgraded 5 watt 6V6
(eg SWART).

[Brian Krashpad]

.

Next year I'll probably be thinking about a cab, or an upgraded 5 watt 6V6
(eg SWART).

SWART?

'splain, por favor.

[tot_Ou_tard]

SWART?

'splain, por favor.

Certainly:

This one is the least expensive

http://www.swartamps.com/amplifiers_tweed_tone_6v6se.htm

but this one has got me drooling:

http://www.swartamps.com/swart_space_tone_reverb.htm

Read the ToneQuest report (I haven't read this yet, I just noticed it as I was getting the links for you. Apparently the Reverend Volcano & Manta Ray are reviewed in the same issue.)

http://www.swartamps.com/tonequest_swart_amps_pg1.htm

[Brian Krashpad]

Certainly:

This one is the least expensive

http://www.swartamps.com/amplifiers_tweed_tone_6v6se.htm

but this one has got me drooling:

http://www.swartamps.com/swart_space_tone_reverb.htm

Read the ToneQuest report (I haven't read this yet, I just noticed it as I was getting the links for you. Apparently the Reverend Volcano & Manta Ray are reviewed in the same issue.)

http://www.swartamps.com/tonequest_swart_amps_pg1.htm

Those look really great.

But too rich for my blood. :(

[Adrian30]

Those look really great.

But too rich for my blood. :(

Too rich for me, too, but maaaan are they pretty or what.:drool:

[Guitar Gal]

Those Swart amps are purdy all right.....:drool:

The thing that was REALLY scary in those pics was the pic of the 2-year-old boy with a toy car in his hand standing next to the $1,300.00 amp :eek:

:nono: :nono: :nono:


GG

[aeolian]

OK, I admit it, I have a Swart AST. Is it by far the most expensive musical investment I've made, and I bought it used. But it does sound gorgeous.

http://home.comcast.net/~kitn13/photos/sw2.jpg

[Brian Krashpad]

OK, I admit it, I have a Swart AST. Is it by far the most expensive musical investment I've made, and I bought it used. But it does sound gorgeous.

Hmm, pic isn't showing, perhaps due to large size.

Fixed:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4311/yamsw2za6.jpg

Looks great! If I had one if would take no convincing to get me to "admit" to it!

Congrats! :AOK:

Btw, I've always loved those Yammy Artists. :drool:

[aeolian]

Thanks, Krashpad. I did not figure out that I had gone over the size limit until several tries later.

[Brian Krashpad]

Thanks, Krashpad. I did not figure out that I had gone over the size limit until several tries later.

My pleasure, they're beauties and should be seen!

Btw, oversize photos are an easy fix, upload them to this site:

http://imageshack.us

The upload page has an auto-resize feature that allows you to choose one of several different size limits to make the photo. It's easy to use and free.

[hubberjub]

I started playing guitar in '91. My first guitar was a Series 10 strat copy that was stolen after about a year. My father was incredibly cool and bought me a new Gibson Les Paul Studio which I still own to this day. After that I went through a period of becoming emotionally attached to all the guitars that I bought, I could not part with any of them. I believe that it is very important to buy as high a quality guitar as you can afford (that's high quality not high price). Not only will the guitar most likely be a great playing an sounding instrument, you will also be proud to play it out. You'll be encouraged to practice. My advice to people playing guitar is to save for a good guitar. I'd rather have a nice Highway 1 Strat for $600 than two import strat clones that will need all of the hardware and electronics replaced to make it playable. If you are a parent considering buying your son or daughter a decent guitar, spend the extra money on something that they will want to play for the next few years. That pink Hello Kitty Strat might look cool now but what will they think after a year or so of playing it and improving their skills?
One last note. Over the past year I was able to bring myself to selling a couple of guitars. They were ones that I didn't allow myself to develop an emotional attachment to. One was a very nice Carvin 7-String (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd105/hubberjub/Moved%20On/), and the other was an autographed MusicMan John Petrucci model (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd105/hubberjub/Moved%20On/). Both of these were spontaneous Ebay purchases and in both cases I was able to sell the guitar for more than I paid for it. :AOK:

[Mark]

I pretty much buy best quality gear that I like. I do shop smart to get the best price. I spent enough years doing without that now Im in a fortunate position to be able to afford quality gear. On the other hand I have built one guitar and two amps and they all are great sounding. Most of my gear will have a good resale value so if and when I sell or when I assume room temperature my family can sell it for some decent money. My vintage amps have already appreciated beyond what I paid.

[fendermojoman]

It was for me . . .
I bought a VOX AD50VT 212 for US $240.::beer:

[Plank_Spanker]

Anyone else go through the "buying for the sake of buying/saving" only to be disappointed in the end?? Has anyone else found that waiting a little bit and getting some better gear paid off?

It's been a good experience to finally have the tone I want in my gear.

When I first started out, I played any junker guitar I could scrounge through any spark-o-matic amp rig I could cloodge together. While I lusted for the good gear, I had major fun and learned a great deal about gear.

When my financial picture improved and my tastes matured, I always sought to buy the best that I could, even if it meant waiting a bit. I got tired of looking over my shoulder for smoke and fire. :D I won't compromise on my gear. If a piece doesn't make me completely happy, I won't buy it. I drag my gear around to gigs and need it to be as bulletproof as possible. Good gear really does make a difference.

I'm by no means buying for cork sniffer cachet. I own some inexpensive pieces that keep me smiling. I buy gear that does what I need it to do and will be constantly reliable.

[srm2k]

I agree, your better off going first class. But custom shop or boutique prices and quality are not really necessary. It took a long time to find my tone but the experience taught me what works for me and what doesn't. It's the cost of doing business.

I'm now consolidating my gear and getting rid of what I'll never use because it's a burden. Don't need it and don't want it.

In amplifiers I want low wattage single channel tube amps - period.

I prefer Fender strats with the modern two point fulcrum trem, noiseless pickups, and locking tuners.

The only effects I can't live without are compressor, tube screamer and delay.

There are some great deals out there right now due to the general economic climate - I bought a beautiful Les Paul Standard recently for $1100 and I don't think it had ten hours of play on it. By the same token, gear you sell right now won't command the high prices seen in recent years.

[Eric]

Figured I'd dredge up another thread...

Even though my purchases mostly don't reflect it, I do agree with the idea behind this thread. There are, in my opinion, two issues that explain the massive gear-churn/cheap-equipment phenomenon.

1) When people start playing the guitar, very few people *know* that they'll continue to do it for a really long time. It's hard to go out and buy an expensive guitar and expensive amp when you're not even sure if it will click with you. To be honest, even $300 for guitar + amp seemed like a lot to me when I first starting playing. I know most would laugh at that now, but it's the honest truth. It's not that I *couldn't* afford it, it's that I was cheap and didn't want to pour money into something, only to have it be a lost hobby.

2) For a long long time, you don't really know what you like/want. This was particularly true for me, someone who largely blazed a musical trail alone. I didn't/don't have tons of friends who are musicians or are into guitar gear, so it's hard to try something and know what works for you. I think people would rather buy a cheap LP, cheap tele, cheap semi-hollow, and cheap strat and see what resonates with their style. It's part of why people buy that lower-end gear.

Also, I do think that most people think they know better than everyone else who is overpaying for gear. It's sort of the reverse-gear-snob. It takes time to realize that better gear really can help you.

The trick in this whole thing is that there really aren't many shortcuts. Someone could read this initial entry, but really, they wouldn't realize that it's true until much later. If they did what you said, it would not be as a result of some epiphany that your words awoke; it would be based on trust and trust alone.

FWIW, I totally agree with Jim about buying gear with tones you can use instead of features. I think the temptation to get features goes back to what I said about not really knowing what you want. Who knows if you like flanger or not? May as well buy a MFX unit that has everything on it and then figure out what you actually use.

Just a random brain dump on this topic. Sorry to interrupt...

[Monkus]

I agree with the sense of the thread. I want a Bigsby, but dont have a clue how to maintain it. I'm now in the position where I can buy pretty much whatever I want but I wont. I really like my Agile 3100 so much so that every Les Paul I play I compare it to that. Will I buy a Gibson les paul?, maybe, if one calls out to me when I'm noodling in a store.

This for me is a journey of gear and self discovery. On the other hand I know about recording gear and keyboards. I have no problem buying equipment I know that is reliable and has the features I might need in the near future.

Now I'm looking at semi hollows and a tube amp. I'm down to the Hagstrom and the Agile AS-1000. The amps shortlisted are the Bugera V22 and the Jet City 2112RC combo or one of OtayPanky's amps. I could go with a Marshall, Vox or Matchless but this will be my first tube amp. I've played thru them but never owned one. I cant convince myself to buy a Matchless at this stage in my guitar life.

[GuitarAcademy]

Its worth getting a guitar that you are going to be happy with. I contend that sonically I can take a guitar that has been intelligently designed and engineered (I.e. Start with a good piece of wood) and build it out to a point where sonic and playability-wise it rivals guitars at 3-4 times the price for under $1,000.00 easily.

But occasionally I can pick up a great guitar out of the box and swoon. This thread talked about LP's and Agile's. For just over 600, I can get an ESP LTD EC 301 - with JB and 59 Pickups, frets that shine like liquid mercury. A Vintage Honey Burst Fade Maple top and set neck Mahogany body and neck wood. Also it has Grover Tuners and an Earvana Neck nut. That's a real good player without breaking the bank. It has a solid but not overly heavy weight to it.

What could I add to it that could max it out, not much.

GA