Ouch, Someone Doesn't Like Clapton

[tunghaichuan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/music/story/0,,2218858,00.html

tung

[ted s]

Hmm, seems to rag on the dark parts of his past and that's about it.

[Brian Krashpad]

Most in North America don't know about Clapton's drunken racist tirade or his pointed refusal, when given the chance, to apologize for it.

I had already heard abou it, and it makes me sad. In vino veritas?

That said, the writer clearly has a chip on his shoulder. Virtually every UK rock guitarist in the 60's borrowed heavily from US bluesmen: bfd. Clapton has always been a performer/instrumentalist foremost and a writer second.

As for his personal habits or relationships, I fail to see how that's relevant to Clapton as a guitarist. Sometimes bad people play well.

[R_of_G]

Virtually every UK rock guitarist in the 60's borrowed heavily from US bluesmen: bfd. Clapton has always been a performer/instrumentalist foremost and a writer second.

Excellent point BK. I'm not sure anybody has ever tried to claim that Clapton is the most inventive guitarist or songwriter. So far as I can tell it's Clapton's technique that has earned him the respect he gets.


As for his personal habits or relationships, I fail to see how that's relevant to Clapton as a guitarist. Sometimes bad people play well.

If we dismissed every great musician who wasn't the greatest person off the stage, we'd have few left to listen to. Musically, I idolize Bird and Miles, but from everything I have read [especially Miles autobiography] they were not the kind of people I'd have wanted to spend 2 seconds around when they weren't playing music. Most of the world knows Ty Cobb was a racist a-hole, but he still could play baseball like nobody else. When it comes to musicians and athletes and the like, I don't care about their personal lives unless I know them personally. This writer obviously has some issue with Clapton, but he doesn't express it in any meaningful way.

[tunghaichuan]

Musically, I idolize Bird and Miles, but from everything I have read [especially Miles autobiography] they were not the kind of people I'd have wanted to spend 2 seconds around when they weren't playing music.

I picked up Warren Zevon's biography "I'll Sleep When I'm Dead" the other day from the library. I'm about 100 pages in, and I already feel like I need a shower. :messedup: A world-class songwriter, but was a major pr*ck. I love his music, though. So point taken about personality.

I don't hate Clapton, but I don't particularly like him, either. I do like Mayall's "Bluesbreakers" and I have "Money and Cigarettes" (mainly because Albert Lee is on it.) But, IMHO, he's been putting out the same tired, retread of an album for the last 35 years. I know lots of people love his music, and I wouldn't try to take that away from them, but Clapton just doesn't do it for me.

To contrast, take Jeff Beck. He has constantly pushed himself musically. He has grown and changed. He's pushed himself and it shows. Just when you think he can't be any better, he comes out with something new and mind-blowing.

$.02

tung

[LagrangeCalvert]

this guy has a gun pointed at Clapton....for what? All this is going to do IMHO is make people read more into Clapton (and his music) and make the people who already like Clapton stop reading his articles. That being said its a Win/Win for Slowhand and a Lose/Lose for the writer of this babble.

W/W = any publicity is good publicity when your a popular as Clap and as well known.

L/L = he wanted people to not go to his shows and see how Eric "really is"...

Now their just going to buy Clapton's new book and stop reading his blabber!

[warren0728]

wow....i wish i sucked as bad as clapton! :whatever: :messedup:

[just strum]

I just found out yesterday that he is living just outside of Columbus, Ohio with his current wife (I guess she's from that area).

That's a little over two hours from my house - maybe I can go down there and jam, then again, maybe not.

[ted s]

hey, what have you got to lose ? Maybe he'll let you take out one of his hot rods !

[LagrangeCalvert]

strum....let me know when you go, I live in cincinnati so its a hop skip and a jump for me....... lets go jam with clapton!

[R_of_G]

Hey, the worst he could do is say "get the hell off my property." :crazyguy:

[stingx]

People like to take jabs at performers who didn't have the decency to die young. You look at how players like Rhoads, SRV, Hendrix, etc. are all worshiped with hardly any negative criticism. They all died on top of their game - still young and only around a short enough time not to disappoint. Clapton didn't - a surprise to him as well I'm sure - and, in fact, has gone through different musical styles as the decades progressed. This is only natural. If you've been around as long as he, you're bound to take heat for "jumping out of your mold" or going for a different musical style that doesn't appeal to all of your fan base. **** them. I think I'd be pretty bored playing the same shit I played in the 60s 40 years later too.

I think the writer of that article was unnecessarily harsh towards Clapton, especially with regards to stealing from others. Clapton, like all others, took up guitar to emulate the heroes of his time but he most definitely has a style unique unto himself. I do not mistake Clapton's playing for Page's or Beck's, etc. If you dig a bit you'll find that he's a very modest man. So modest, in fact, that he was unsure of his own vocal ability and had to be coaxed to sing.

Do I like all Clapton tunes? Do I think he's the best guitarist to have ever walked the planet? No, on both counts BUT I do believe he is an amazing talent and has brought more to the table than many others past and present. He's one of the few remaining from an era where the music came first and it came from the heart. In an era of pop stardom where talent takes a back seat to appearance, where people shell out big bucks to watch lip synced performances and where few kids even have a clue what taste is he should be appreciated even more.

The talent of Clapton should not even be questioned. It was this talent that inspired a slew of young guitarists to play - Edward Van Halen credits him as a huge influence. I was influenced by EVH, Clapton, Gilmour, and the list goes on. I'll never play like any of these people but that's not the point. I was inspired to play by them and that's got to account for a whole lot in my book.

[Brian Krashpad]

I picked up Warren Zevon's biography "I'll Sleep When I'm Dead" the other day from the library. I'm about 100 pages in, and I already feel like I need a shower. :messedup: A world-class songwriter, but was a major pr*ck. I love his music, though. So point taken about personality.

I felt the same way after reading a Steve Earle bio.

[ted s]

Nicely put StingX.

[tunghaichuan]

I felt the same way after reading a Steve Earle bio.

Which one did you read? There are two listed on Amazon.com.

tung

[Brian Krashpad]

Which one did you read? There are two listed on Amazon.com.

tung

Hardcore Troubadour: The Life and Near Death of Steve Earle by Lauren St John

[Mark]

Just another loser psuedo journalist using a someone elses fame to rub some sunshine on his own face. As far as the racism well tell that to BB and all of Eric's black friends and band members!....anyone see BB's toast at Crossroads 07? Was Eric a raging butthead when he was a dope fiend and drunk...sure he openly admits it and seems to be doing what he can to finish up his life as a decent human. He has done so much to bring the blues and especially the people they came from to the forefront and he has always credited the people who's songs he covered. Unlike a few rock group icons that stole everything that wasnt nailed down and claimed it for their own, then fought to deny the rightful authors their due. The author of the article is a dolt pure and simple. I tend to judge people by their actions and I think EC is out of the dark and into the light these days. His contributions to music will stand the test of time and the idiot writing this article will be forgotten in oh about 10 minutes.

[R_of_G]

He has done so much to bring the blues and especially the people they came from to the forefront and he has always credited the people who's songs he covered. Unlike a few rock group icons that stole everything that wasnt nailed down and claimed it for their own, then fought to deny the rightful authors their due.

I think you nailed it right there Mark. The author takes EC to task for "stealing" the blues. I have read every interview with EC I can get my hands on, and never once have I heard him claim to have invented anything. He is EXTREMELY humble about his playing [esp. for someone as vastly talented as he is] and always gives credit where it's due. If this author only listens to artists who invented the kind of music they play he must have a very small collection.

[Brian Krashpad]

Just another loser psuedo journalist using a someone elses fame to rub some sunshine on his own face. As far as the racism well tell that to BB and all of Eric's black friends and band members!....anyone see BB's toast at Crossroads 07? Was Eric a raging butthead when he was a dope fiend and drunk...sure he openly admits it and seems to be doing what he can to finish up his life as a decent human.

Although he's made a point of not recanting that original very public racist remark, and even, many years after it (2004), repeating his admiration for the race-baiting politico?

Even George Wallace eventually admitted he was wrong in advocating the same type of notions that Enoch Powell supported. It would be easy for Clapton to just say "I was wrong about Enoch Powell," rather than some generalized "I should get a free pass from '73-'84 (or whenever) because I was on drugs."

Having black friends and coworkers cuts both ways under these circumstances. The "Some of my best friends are black" defense devolves not to the necessary conclusion that the speaker is not racist, but instead to one of two opposing conclusions, either of which could be true: 1)the speaker is not racist, OR, 2) the speaker is racist but is also two-faced to those he calls friends, and says one thing when they're around and another when they're not.

By not taking the expedient option of specifically recanting his drink/drugged-out support of a racist politican (and in fact publicly stating what appears to be Clapton's continuing admiration for the guy decades later), Clapton adds fuel to the fire that the second option above is the accurate one.

Which saddens me.

[Tone2TheBone]

They say alcohol is a truth serum. Part of me can't believe it (the whole Clapton thing and comment made) and then part of me easily believes it. We humans can get ugly when we want to. And we can also get brilliant at times. Life varies as my brother in law used to say.

[R_of_G]

Brian makes a very interesting point. In light of EC's comments, and his long-standing refusal to retract them, how would you feel if you were of African origin and were supposed to play with Clapton? Personally, I think wouldn't pass up the opportunity to play with someone of his calibre, but I probably wouldn't want to associate with him offstage. As long as he kept his racism to himself while we played I'd be cool.

[Brian Krashpad]

Brian makes a very interesting point. In light of EC's comments, and his long-standing refusal to retract them, how would you feel if you were of African origin and were supposed to play with Clapton? Personally, I think wouldn't pass up the opportunity to play with someone of his calibre, but I probably wouldn't want to associate with him offstage. As long as he kept his racism to himself while we played I'd be cool.

I think I'd probably handle it the same way. Hard to say. While I wasn't born into money or anything (nor do I make any to speak of nowadays), still I've had a fairly privileged white upbringing and can't begin to understand what it might feel like to have to deal with such issues.

Again, I should reiterate that I'm not saying Clapton is a racist, only that there's no way of telling and he's actually making it harder on himself by not clearing the air more directly than he has.

I remember a long time ago Elvis Costello got snockered while on tour here in the States and said some directly racist things (iirc using the N-word), and Jerry Lee Lewis once famously set his piano on fire before invoking the N-word to see if the black performer who got top billing (iirc it may've been Little Richard or Chuck Berry) "could follow that."

I've always wondered to what extent they apologized or recanted, or blamed the booze. It certainly shows Clapton is not alone in such things.

[Lev]

As an Irishman I would rarely defend a Conservative British politician. However in order to give some balance to this debate I thought I should point out that Enoch Powell was not some extreme marginalised right wing looney (well history may show he was..) But at that time he was in fact one of the most popular British politicians.

Britain was in the midst of an economic depression at the time while having no immigration policies to speak of - unsustainable in any economic model. Powell was the first to speak out publicly about this and his views were labelled as racist by many of his opponents in order to gain political advantage.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree and that's not why I'm making the point. What I'm trying to say is that Clapton was certainly not alone in the view point that he held. For what it's worth I don't believe for one second that Clapton is a racist now or was at that time.

...this journalist should hang his head in shame for writing such an unbalanaced character assasination!!

[R_of_G]

Brian, glad you brought up the Elvis Costello story as I had been thinking of that as well. At least he distanced himself from his comments once he sobered up.

One more trivia note on the Enoch Powell thing. If I am not mistaken, the Beatles' "Get Back" originated out of a jam they were doing ad-libbing lyrics in critical response to Powell's infamous "Rivers of Blood" speech. Apparently, some of the bootleg "Let it Be" sessions feature recordings of "Get Back" with some of these lyrics remaining [not any that I have though].

[duhvoodooman]

I doubt any of us would like to be reminded of some of the things we said when we were young, cocky and drunk (or otherwise altered). If you truly believed that Clapton was a racist, do you think he'd garner the genuine respect that he does from African-American blues players? Or that he'd allow himself to be depicted as B.B. King's driver on the cover of Riding with the King? A completely ridiculous implication, IMO.

Forgetting about his musical contributions completely for the moment, just considering what he's done for addicts with his Crossroads Centre in Antigua should be enough to earn the admiration of any fair-minded person. Which pretty much leaves out this clown Kieron Tyler.....

[R_of_G]

So at least we are all in agreement that the author of the article is an imbecile.

[Mark]

You know what I care very little about the demands of the hand wringing self appointed supposed "guardians" of what is right demanding apologies. On the racial topic there is plenty of blame to go round in the whole racial arena for both sides and Ill stop here as this will eventually devolve into a political debat and the fret isnt the place for it. So for me suffice it to say I judge people by their actions today I will not take EC to task as a racist by one comment years ago but by judging from his actions. This article was a cheap shot hit piece.

One last note in my 53 years of life having grown up in the Bronx and then in Miami and now living in SoCal plus having traveled all over the US. I have found those in the public eye that accuse others of racism behind closed doors are the biggest flippin racists of them all. This isnt directed to anyone posting here just my life experience that I have seen personally numerous times.

Thanks Lev for bringing such convienently left out facts of the days when these statements were made. So much BS derives in out of context drivelc parroted by dolts like the one who wrote the hit piece.

[R_of_G]

i thought we all deserved some positive EC time, so here is some video.

"Furthur On Up the Road," and while I have no info on the date, the band has George Harrison on rhythm, and EC and George seem to be having a lot of fun.

ZFHHi48oxmw


BTW, thanks to Tung for starting this thread. This has been an interesting discussion.:AOK:

[Spudman]

See what a jerk Clapton is. He makes Harrison stand behind him the whole time. I mean come on...that's George Harrison. He shouldn't have to stand behind anybody. Especially the guy that stole his wife. Come on now. Who wrote "Something" and "Old Brown Shoe" anyway?

[just strum]

I doubt any of us would like to be reminded of some of the things we said when we were young, cocky and drunk (or otherwise altered). If you truly believed that Clapton was a racist, do you think he'd garner the genuine respect that he does from African-American blues players? Or that he'd allow himself to be depicted as B.B. King's driver on the cover of Riding with the King? A completely ridiculous implication, IMO.

Forgetting about his musical contributions completely for the moment, just considering what he's done for addicts with his Crossroads Centre in Antigua should be enough to earn the admiration of any fair-minded person. Which pretty much leaves out this clown Kieron Tyler.....

+1

And screw the politically correct crap. There are racist everywhere and as much as you, me or anyone else might not like it, it's their right to an opinion. The same can be said for many of the statements made in this thread - it's only opinion and not much else.

And as for the "N word", that is getting pretty old.

[R_of_G]

See what a jerk Clapton is. He makes Harrison stand behind him the whole time. I mean come on...that's George Harrison. He shouldn't have to stand behind anybody. Especially the guy that stole his wife. Come on now. Who wrote "Something" and "Old Brown Shoe" anyway?

Hilarious Spud. You know the part early in the video where Clapton whispers something to George? I bet it's a racist joke. :rotflmao:

[Spudman]

Hilarious Spud. You know the part early in the video where Clapton whispers something to George? I bet it's a racist joke. :rotflmao:

Or reminding George not to stand in front of him...or maybe saying how great he is on guitar and thanking George for playing rhythm...or best yet, I'm peaking!