Story of Stuff - cure (or curb) for GAS?

[tjcurtin1]

Well, folks - I know many of us have wondered aloud about those $15 pedals, $40 pickups sets, unbelievably priced guitars, amps, whatevers....

IF you're really looking to curb your GAS appetite, watch this -

http://www.storyofstuff.com:80/

- stick with it; it's about 20 minutes but there is some striking stuff in it. At the very least we all ought to be conscious of how the system works....

Best wishes for a not-too-material Christmas!

[Spudman]

This is 20 minutes long but should be required watching for everyone.
Anyone every buy anything? Then you should watch this.

[Tone2TheBone]

Sustainability is a big deal now. What better way to explain how screwed up the world is getting than by watching cool cartoons about it. This was great. The only problem now is what to do about it. Nothing can be done but to slow down the consumption. It's already here it's happening you can't stop the machine. Ideas?

[tunghaichuan]

It is impossible to discuss this issue without discussing politics and religion.

tung

[Tone2TheBone]

Yup and religious and political topics always make the best discussion. I guess we could just sit around and wait till someone hijacks this thread or something. :)

[aeolian]

I watched it. The points made may be a bit extreme, but I agree with the gist of the argument. I try to do my part. I'm not a particularly good consumer to begin with, and I do try to recycle, including computer equipment where I paid to have them recycled. But I am by no means a good example for sustainability.

I recently read somewhere that people don't tend to empathize with situations that are not immediate to them. I doubt that we will realize that we should do something until we are deep in doodoo, and then it may be too late.

[Spudman]

Awareness is the first step. I think just realizing what happens - how we are sucked up in it - and that we CAN do something different is really the foundation to instigate a larger change. A lake starts with just one drop. (where is the Buddha smiley)

[LagrangeCalvert]

Power Sats.

Thats one answer for the fuel source at least. stations in space that have solar panels that store that energy and beam it down as microwaves. Its about 10 years off but this is an endless supply of energy like solar energy.

As far as the consumerism I don't or my family shop at "Big Corp". We do reuse as much as possible and recycle. To just spend and take and not give ANYTHING back....it truly is NUTS! I don't know how you can just go from the 40's and 50's to 50 years later. I understand population booms and exponential curves but DAMN. It makes me sick to be in the US sometimes that we have made a system to make everything throw away. I don't know but IMHO things need to change.

L.C.

[Spudman]

It's all being perpetuated by the Man. Remember they warned us about the Man decades ago. The Man figured out this system to generate cash flow for him. If we take away the Man's money we take away his power. Buying and using less is a good way to start.

[Tone2TheBone]

In the immortal words of Jack Black we gotta stick it to the Man.

[jasongins]

I agree some of the points were extreme and over simplified. That woman does not live in a tent, she wears clothes, and she must have used a video camera, a computer, energy, and other STUFF to make that video. But maybe we could start trading gear with one another, stuff we aren't using, rather than just buying more stuff. I put some pedals up for trade in the For Sale/Trade forum.

[Tone2TheBone]

I agree some of the points were extreme and over simplified. That woman does not live in a tent, she wears clothes, and she must have used a video camera, a computer, energy, and other STUFF to make that video. But maybe we could start trading gear with one another, stuff we aren't using, rather than just buying more stuff. I put some pedals up for trade in the For Sale/Trade forum.

Nice segue into a hijacked for sale post! :beer: ;)

[Bloozcat]

I've never liked pieces like this where a "spokesperson" speaks in the authoritive voice without citing credible sources to substantiate their "facts". Outside of a couple of EPA statistics, the "Facts" section within the "Resources" tab, referred to sources that, rather than representing the mainstream economic community, represent authors with a biased, agenda driven opinion. This clearly should have been presented as an opinion piece, rather than a factual arguement.

While I agree that we are increasingly a "throw away" society regarding consumer goods, and that some good points were brought up in this presentation, it is clearly an over-simplification of the problem (and yes, I do agree that there is a burgeoning problem). To use women's clothes buying habits as an example to support their arguement is quite ridiculous. Consumerism doesn't get any more emotional than that. And to suggest that TV commercials that tell us "you suck", somehow creates a physcological imbalance in our brains that drives us to the malls on zombie-like buying binges, is bordering on tinfoil hat territory.

I don't even want to get into the business and economic factors that were left out of this piece...that would just take too much time (and I don't even think it would be a worthwhile endevor). Yes, our consumer markets are flooded with shoddily made Chinese consumer goods. And yes, there are few alternatives to these products in certain market sectors. But, that certainly doesn't mean that we're all driven to frenzied consumerism like some kind of deranged lemmings.

In my opinion, if the authors of this piece had as a goal the conversion of deliberate, discerning, consumers to their way of thinking, they missed the mark by a bit. It could have been so much better if the authors had appealed to our intellects rather than our emotions.

[Spudman]

Maybe you aren't the one that she might be trying to get through to.

I think that keeping it simple is a great way that the majority can start to grasp what they are doing. A large part of America has bought into the system and have no idea what they are contributing to.

Maybe you don't see the masses being driven "to the malls on zombie-like buying binges," but I do. I've been service big box retailers for over 20 years and there are a significant number of people that think and act just that way.

I would hazard a guess that since she has done 10 years of research that she has the ability to get into the complexities that you mention. I think though that in order to reach the masses that she has to keep it simple. Even 20 minutes was a stretch. Maybe there is an agenda as you say the sources seem to be geared towards, but is it a bad agenda? What's wrong with getting people to start thinking about the whole picture. All I got from this was just the message to wake up and start thinking about the bigger picture. Nobody else seems to be saying that.

[oldguy]

It's real, it's here, and it's being acknowledged. Everyone has a right to their opinion, whether it be global warming or eating meat as opposed to vegan.
Here's another view on it, if I can get the link to work. Under 6min. long. It's all tied together, just gotta look. "The restless consumer lies asleep in her hotel, with such an appetite for anything............. that.... sells."
I see the same thing here as the story......... corporations, foreign countries, who's interests are being served, and, at what cost? I'm just sayin'....... (I'm'a believer).

TSgogsvZJgk

[Bloozcat]

Maybe you aren't the one that she might be trying to get through to.

I think that keeping it simple is a great way that the majority can start to grasp what they are doing. A large part of America has bought into the system and have no idea what they are contributing to.

Maybe you don't see the masses being driven "to the malls on zombie-like buying binges," but I do. I've been service big box retailers for over 20 years and there are a significant number of people that think and act just that way.

I would hazard a guess that since she has done 10 years of research that she has the ability to get into the complexities that you mention. I think though that in order to reach the masses that she has to keep it simple. Even 20 minutes was a stretch. Maybe there is an agenda as you say the sources seem to be geared towards, but is it a bad agenda? What's wrong with getting people to start thinking about the whole picture. All I got from this was just the message to wake up and start thinking about the bigger picture. Nobody else seems to be saying that.

Point well taken, Spud.

I recognize that I have a tendency to be more "in depth", when discussing important issues. My circle of friends and associates is very much the same. And even though there's a plethora of examples in everyday society that most people are extremely superficial, I still expect more from them. That's my failing, I guess.

Still, while the spokesperson is trying to reach one audience, it's inevitable that she'll alienate another. Rather than it being just this one message, it's the way in which important information is broadly dispensed accross the board that I find so disturbing. All society will tolerate today, it seems, is 30 second sound bites - not matter how complex and important the topic.

As I had stated previously though, I do agree that this is a burgeoning problem.

[Spudman]

Still, while the spokesperson is trying to reach one audience, it's inevitable that she'll alienate another. Rather than it being just this one message, it's the way in which important information is broadly dispensed accross the board that I find so disturbing. All society will tolerate today, it seems, is 30 second sound bites - not matter how complex and important the topic.


It's hard to please everyone huh. It's probably a good thing otherwise we might just as well all be lemmings. Critical thought is vital.

[aeolian]

It's hard to please everyone huh. It's probably a good thing otherwise we might just as well all be lemmings. Critical thought is vital.

But we do have lemmings tendencies: witness how many Wii, iPhone, and Hanna Montana CDs get sold.

[Spudman]

But we do have lemmings tendencies: witness how many Wii, iPhone, and Hanna Montana CDs get sold.

Right. We do have those tendencies. Blooz points out that not all of us do and I agree. The trick is getting the rest of the swarm to start THINKING. That's why I think this film is a good start. Sort of like that film where the guy lives for a month on McDonald's food. Makes you think, eh.

[tunghaichuan]

Right. We do have those tendencies. Blooz points out that not all of us do and I agree. The trick is getting the rest of the swarm to start THINKING. That's why I think this film is a good start. Sort of like that film where the guy lives for a month on McDonald's food. Makes you think, eh.

I just watched "Fast Food Nation" by Richard Linklater a few days ago. If that doesn't put anyone off of fast food, I don't know what would.

tung

[just strum]

This will come off as middle of the road response, but I think we can all take a little something from the first post. Agreed it's oversimplified, but the base point is tough to dispute.

[jpfeifer]

I watched the video. I do agree that our society is one of a throw-away society. Just go to a MacDonalds and see how much trash you throw away at the end of a meal. Worse yet, buy your kids a Barbie and see how much of the package is the "Barbie" as compared to the throw-away anti-theft packaging around the doll. It's crazy how much junk is packaged into products these days.

However, I do get kind of turned off to her extreme viewpoint that most big corporations are somehow "evil" and in the back pockets of the government officials. It always bugs me when people paint large corporations like this because they're not looking at the whole picture. Companies are in business to make money, yes. But companies give people jobs. Jobs provide a means for people to send their kids to school, pay for food, buy houses, etc (even buy guitars :-). Not all large companies are trying to rape the earth, take advantage of poor laborers, and hold people down. My first job out of school was with a large company that sent me back to college so that I could better myself. Large corporations typically give money to charitiable organizations too.

I just think that her viewpoint is a little too simplified. What she describes is a real problem. But it's more complex than this. There are a lot of factors that are causing it.

That being said, I do get turned off seeing more and more throw away stuff being sold these days. It seems that so much stuff is sold for a society that wants convenience and has no time for the simple things like home-cooked meals, washing dishes, etc. I think that part of the problem is that people are just too busy to live life at a normal pace anymore.

-- Jim

[just strum]

Jim,

I know we are not voting, but I think you posted the best response so far. Very nicely put. Your second and last paragraph nailed it.

[Robert]

From http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/shopping/shopping-tips/oyster-awards-3-07/overview/0307_oyster_ov_1.htm

-----
Why are so many packages still hard to crack? Blame crooks, in part. Manufacturers obsess about theft as never before. The National Association for Shoplifting Prevention estimates losses from pilferage at more than $25 million per day. Other reasons:

* Federal safety laws require seals that will show evidence of tampering, and child-safety caps on most over-the-counter remedies, though that often makes them adultproof.
* Products from abroad must be packed securely enough to withstand a long, bouncy voyage aboard a cargo ship.
* With toys, it’s no longer enough to picture what’s inside. Children and parents like to interact with the toy or at least see all the pieces before buying.

But try explaining those reasons to a kid. We watched a 7-year-old as she attempted to liberate Bratz Sisterz dolls from their packaging. We gave her safety scissors, though she preferred using her hands. Eight minutes after she began, the child, noticeably agitated and breathing heavily, freed the dolls, which now looked as if they had just returned from a rough night on the town. Our young tester resorted to ripping the dolls from the packaging. The Sisterz were missing clumps of hair, and strings, plastic tabs, and wires were everywhere. Some of the wires remained stuck around the dolls’ arms.

[Justaguyin_nc]

Awareness is the first step. I think just realizing what happens - how we are sucked up in it - and that we CAN do something different is really the foundation to instigate a larger change. A lake starts with just one drop. (where is the Buddha smiley)

I believe everyone is aware... but none of us really care!
it's just a circle that "WE ALL" are not willing to break.
Most likely including the lady doing that video.

Next time you want fast food..
think of the gas polluting the air going to get it..
The plastics and chemical waste your adding to your world
with the packaging from this food.
Then bite down anyways.. you want to..
but you wont make a difference.

Next time that Bike rider saving the air travels to his
Bike paths.. how much gas was wasted driving there?
How many fumes put in the air?
How much rubber in those tires?

Next time you the jogger goes to an event
to jog.. well, jog there..save some fuels..
and those synthetics they wear? are they safe?
Next time you want bottled water
think of the plastics.. and whats actually in the bottle?
Put a darn filter on your faucet at home.

Next time an American buys a product..
BUY USA made products..
This and only this supports jobs in America.
Name five major American companies just in America.
(sorry this was more American talk huh)

Next time you want that NEW guitar..
Use the one you have..
why kill more trees!! <--- see...see.. ya don't want to get off the circle.

It's a circle we complain about..
But we are it..

I Just sit back and smoke a cigar..
Umm wait that's not American cigars..
OK, Cig.. that is a natural god made plant.
Oh heck..they spray it with chemicals..
I'll never be able to get off this circle.
I think instead of complaining about..
Like Nike says... Just do it!
I believe the lady did it in a simple way to
get it across to us less intellegent people.

Lets eat hemp, wear hemp and smoke hemp
and the world will be a better place!!

(I need to check my spelling after saving...)

[Spudman]

Agreed. Hemp for everyone!:beer:

[tjcurtin1]

Wow, Justa - that's layin' it right out there! I think that this is the heart of it - it's really hard to get out of that circle. Someone once suggested that you have to realize that everytime we purchase anything (Macdonald's hamburger to Hummer) that you're sending the message "Make another one.", and indeed the next one is immediately under production as a result. As you indicate by the 'Just do it' tagline (which could also be stated as "Just don't do it!" in regards to getting out of the circle), it's a matter of whether we have the will to act.

I'll pass on on other link that a friend just sent me. It is an example of the other approach some of us have called for - the barebones, straight logic-without-the emotions approach to a related issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDsIFspVzfI

[Spudman]

I'm going to eat all my Christmas wrapping paper and ride my bike to the hospital afterwards and make the ER room tech use a hand crank to pump my stomach.:messedup: :D

Ya, it's hard to break the circle or pattern or dependency or what ever. Any little bit helps though and can be considered a victory however large or small.

[just strum]

Someone once suggested that you have to realize that everytime we purchase anything (Macdonald's hamburger to Hummer) that you're sending the message "Make another one.", and indeed the next one is immediately under production as a result.

If we stop saying or sending the message "Make another one.", then the person making the Hummer or the burger is eventually out of work. In time all of these people are out of work and then they are not buying the products you make or using the service you provide (unless you work in an unemployment office). You need to keep saying "Make another one", but stipulate that it has to be made with the environment in mind.

We need to re-identify the meaning of progress.

[just strum]

Interesting article. Not going to make a statement of reality or fantasy, just stating it is interesting.

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=444375&topart=passenger