A Science teacher's approach to assessing the global warming risk.

[sunvalleylaw]

I hope this is not considered political. The below vid is a science teacher trying to cut through the shouting matches about global warming and how to react, or not react to the debate. A bit nerdy, but what the heck, he is a science teacher. Hope some of you like it.

mF_anaVcCXg&eurl=http://blog.sunvalleyonline.com/index.php/2008/01/24/climate-change-what-is-the-worst-that-could-happen-or-forget-the-shouting

P.S. if this is considered political, moderators, please feel free to pull it. :)

[Justaguyin_nc]

didn't we already have a thread on this stuff? (thinking outloud)

I hate it but.. I think we worry to much..
Not that it's wrong.. or right.. it's enough!
We only been around a few thousand years..
We are destructive..but lets just worry about it
till better humans with better technology can actually
make a difference.. but it takes the whole world!

In a time of terrible economics for the U.S. of A..
All this will add is more taxes and more weight on the poor.
Who actually pollute less then the rich.. think about it..

We(U.S.A.) cannot control the rest of the world, and should realize that to!

I apose all U.S. bills adding to more government structure..
we are at an end of what monies the big G should be taking
from us! People need to cleanup their own zone and let
the rest fall as it should be.

Ofcourse....if those intelligent leaders and science majors a few thousand
years ago paid more attention to common sense.. we wouldn't
be in this mess to begin with.. Jesus christ already!
Well, if you go that way I mean..

In the long run.. someone is making money.. no one
really tries to make things better, unless it's better
to them personally. it's the Human way.. yes I believe this.
seen it all my life.. dont know a single person that is different.
Greed.. selfishness.. don't worry about it.. its human.
and your a part of it..
(generalizing..not YOU viewing this personally..
I don't know you, but you probably pollute the air daily)

Im in the strong belief a Asteroid will hit the earth someday
and we will start again anyways.. we are not the humans
that can stop this.. global warming ain't gonna matter.
sheeet happens..

Besides.. it might be this planet needs warming.. what about all the talk
on the ozone layer? the hole gets smaller in warmer weather...

In the Arctic, some recent cold winters have led to 30% losses in total column ozone in early spring.
Ozone loss in the Arctic is highly dependent on the meteorology,due to the importance of
cold-weather Polar Stratospheric Clouds (PSCs) that act as reactive surfaces to accelerate ozone destruction.
For this reason, the warm Arctic winter of 1998/1999 saw very little ozone loss due to the lack of PSCs,
while the cold 1999/2000 winter saw a 20-25% loss of ozone.

Then there are those saying fresh water is running out.
Well, the artics are full of fresh water... the warming
will allow for the shuttle of iceburgs to other regions needing fresh water.
They actually do this...


Could we be wrong? on either case? OFCOURSE!!


My goodness..I am the devils advocate. :thwap:

[oldguy]

I recycle all I can. Got all those little fluorescent lights in the house now. Try not to waste energy. Call my reps when something pi$$es me off, but I know I can't send 'em half a million to bury my wishes in a pork barrel bill. I try and do my part. But I also buy things I want when GAS hits..... and most of it's made in third world countries nowadays....where they'll clear cut and slash and burn to make way for more polluting factories to build more stuff for me to buy. Don't want to see my kids or grandkids, or anyone else's inherit misery, or die in a world catastrophe. What do I do now????? Who's the bad guy????
Awareness is a good thing. Educate yourself, sure. Nature's going to take it's course regardless. That includes human nature. If the switch flips, we're done. You might fight back somebody with a knife or gun on the street, but you can only do so much globally.
Enjoy what you've got now, there's nothing for sure except we're gonna die someday.......and with that being said, I'm gonna play my guitar, and post some more music related things......that's why I came here.:beer: :beer: :beer:

[stingx]

I like Carlin's assessment better...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw&feature=related

[Justaguyin_nc]

I like Carlin's assessment better...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw&feature=related
eScDfYzMEEw

+1000 :AOK:

[just strum]

I think we've been bombarded with a lot of crap, some true, some pie in the sky theory - however, while I am determining my own conclusion, I must say those two videos were great. Probably the most entertaining videos I've seen on the subject.

[oldguy]

I like Carlin's assessment better...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw&feature=related

Finally, there 'ya go, somebody said what I was thinkin', and way better!!
Gonna play some music now and enjoy the time I got left.......:pancake:

[tjcurtin1]

Welllll..... Mr. Carlin may be happy to consign himself (and the rest of us) to oblivion, but it don't work for me. Of course, as a professional comedian, he's working hard to hold us and our notions up for ridicule, which is the nature of his work - it is good to be able to laugh at ourselves and our fears and our notions of our individual importance. However, are any of us so sour on life that we are really ready to say it's worth no more than a hole in the ground? Actually, I think those who love music have an inate sense of the wonder and glory of what it is to be human, to have reached this pinnacle in the development of life and - dare I say it - spirit. I think it's worth fighting for in terms of its having a future.

[WackyT]

Carlin definitely has a point in that skit. To use a phrase from Star Wars VI, "I'm out of it for a little while, and everybody gets delusions of grandeur."

It seems that comedians have regained their time honored position as the "castle idiots", the only individuals allowed to tell the whole truth without repercussion. Quite a few people I know younger than 40 get a majority of their news from the "Comedy Central" cable TV channel, and who are they? Comedians.

[just strum]

tjcurtin1,

You make some good points, but I grow tired of the obvious exaggerations made by both sides of the debate. Like politics, we never seem to get the whole story and end up listening to extremists that dilute the facts through exaggerations.

All I want is the truth now,
Just give me some truth now. John Lennon

[tjcurtin1]

I had the feeling that this guy on the video was trying pretty hard to avoid the various 'positions' and cut to the bare bones questions. You're right, Strum, it's easy for people with an agenda to blow smoke - but there has to be a basic, bottom line set of issues that we have to face and deal with - along with finding the will to deal with them and not give in to despair or cynicism. This is something that I have a problem with regarding our consumption of the stuff that pundits and comedians delivering as 'news' - the cynical attitude that none of it matters, or we're all friggin' idiots because we're human beings, or anyone who cares is a schmuck, because it is so uncool to care about anything. Most of what the popular culture/media has to offer is so shallow, least-common-denominator, and pitched by people/powers who don't want you to think for yourself, IMHO.

[Robert]

Tjcurtin1, I agree with you. That Carlin stuff doesn't work for me. The future of our kids, grand kids, grand-grand kids, etc will be affected by what we do now/don't do now/will do. When people work together, change is possible. That cynical attitude some people like to display, "who cares, we're screwed anyway", certainly isn't something I agree with.

[just strum]

When people work together, change is possible.

That's the big challenge. This might turn out to be a good thing, because nothing brings people together better than having a common enemy and the common enemy is global destruction.

[WackyT]

So, you think the globe is actually going to destruct (be rendered into tiny pieces) due to global warming?

[just strum]

So, you think the globe is actually going to destruct (be rendered into tiny pieces) due to global warming?

too simple. It will take much more than that, but it doesn't appear anything is being done to reverse it.

One very positive point made by Carlin - The Earth has power to heal and has taken on tremendous challenges. We need to stop producing so much destruction and allow it to do its job.

But then again we will probably blow each other up and Earth can live happily ever after.

[sunvalleylaw]

I did not post this to divide but to generate thought. The science teacher is making the point that it is good risk management to take measures to lessen our impact on the planet, and I was interested in his common ground approach. Lessening mankind's impact on the planet seems desirable even if the more dire predictions are not accurate. Less pollution and impact on the planet has other benefits as well. I hope this thread will generate some thought on lessening our personal impacts on this planet.

But, this is a guitar board, and this can be a touchy subject, and it might be the right thing to do to close this thread so that online arguments among friends do not occur. Causing an argument was certainly not my intent in posting. :pancake:

[just strum]

Hmm, missed the argument, I'll have to go back and read it again. Why is it that this forum thinks every discussion that has opposing thoughts is an argument?

I thought it was one that brought out some decent discussion.

Yes it is a guitar forum, but it's also the open mic section and I think it is serving its purpose.

[Justaguyin_nc]

I sure don't see any arguing..just different views...

is it global warming..
is it astroids..
is it another ice age?

it's views..and what you think you as a human can do with them..

then theres.. welp, we just aint humane enough to make a difference unless we MAKE the whole world do it.. that just is not going to happen in OUR lifetime.. just my opinion. and not an argument..

it should be turned to Show us what YOU are doing to make a change..
Not oh look.. but what YOU are actually doing.. to get a pat on the back.

Personally, I am doing nothing but taking my garbage to the dump.. put recycle stuff in the bin there.. and click off a light now and then.. thats all I am willing to do.. no more money from USA policy... just personal change...

[Spudman]

On the topic of guitars - if we do suffer the consequences of global warming I'm sure the earth will survive but humans might not. Then there will be all these guitars and amphs left behind with nobody to play them. We need to keep our environment stable so that we might continue on. Just think how much that 1991 Mexican Strat is going to be worth in 60 years. You want to be around for that don't you?;)

[Justaguyin_nc]

On the topic of guitars ;)

My gawd Spuds...all those guitars you have.. shame on you.. you cleared a whole forest!!! :poke:

I'll be content being around another 60 months.. no one is living forever... :rotflmao: well, unless you go that way...

[just strum]

My gawd Spuds...all those guitars you have.. shame on you.. you cleared a whole forest!!! :poke:

I'll be content being around another 60 months.. no one is living forever... :rotflmao: well, unless you go that way...

He's a tree hugger - as long as it's shaped like a guitar, he'll hug it.:D

[LagrangeCalvert]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051013082044.htm

Global warming was happening long before we were around. Its just part of the ebb and flow of our earth. Thats not to say were not helping with it....but its just a cycle. After the great ice age, there was a mass extinction because of a global warming spike due to permafrost and glacier lake methane release when the ice receded. The average temp. raised 18 deg. (not metric thank god!)

Do some more research if your into it. I just watched a show on global warming last night....how funny ;)

[stingx]

Humans are no different from any other species on the planet when you look at the grand scheme of things. We are the only species that kills out of malice and one of the youngest species on the planet yet in the short time we've been around we've caused an awful lot of destruction. Maybe it's time we went away. No one would miss us a bit. I agree with George, I think we're already on the way - wave bye bye now.

[Tone2TheBone]

Yeah well whatever happened to that hole in the ozone layer anyway?

The thing that freaks me out about this planet is how long dinosaur species have lived (millions of years give or take duh)...as opposed to human existence. Everytime I drive around my state I look at the earth and I see layers upon layers of colorful mud and silt that was part of the freakin' bottom of an ocean at one time and it's crazy! I'm just picking on the dinos here but really we haven't been here that long as Sting said. You think we're gonna last at least half that long? As a species? Look how much has happened since the time men have split the atom. And that's only been what...less than 70 years or so? Compared to the millions of years of dinosaur existence?

I'm a semi-idealist having fun with pessimism. Btw good thread Sun...as usual we take it off track but I liked your intro post. :)

[just strum]

Forget about right or wrong for a moment. This small thread demonstrates how difficult it is to get everyone on the same page. There are a number of different opinions here and if we were given the resources (money and technology) do you think we would agree on a fix or even the need for a fix?

Now take that same scenario and apply it on a world wide scale - BIG CHALLENGE

Again, my stand is we need better facts, but not at the cost of causing procrastination and/or indecision.

[oldguy]

Forget about right or wrong for a moment. This small thread demonstrates how difficult it is to get everyone on the same page. There are a number of different opinions here and if we were given the resources (money and technology) do you think we would agree on a fix or even the need for a fix?

Now take that same scenario and apply it on a world wide scale - BIG CHALLENGE

Again, my stand is we need better facts, but not at the cost of causing procrastination and/or indecision.

My belief is global warming exists, studies prove it, individuals need to take personal responsibility for their actions, there is a need for "a fix", as you put it, if the human race is going to continue to survive, and, in the grand scheme of things universal, if humans aren't destined to survive on this planet, they won't. I will continue to recycle, reduce consumption of energy where possible, express dissatisfaction with my elected officials, properly inflate my vehicle tires, and encourage family, friends, and acquaintances to do likewise.
As previously stated, global warming has occurred before (as can best be determined by evidence.) I wonder if people worldwide did unite to attempt reversing it (and I think/hope we're beginning to), would we be able to, if we care enough, if we try???? I'm not being cynical or uncaring, I'm asking a valid question. That's what I like about Carlin's act...... if we as a race are that shallow, egomaniacal, and greedy, what do we deserve?:confused:
And if the human race as a whole just doesn't give a crap, where does that leave the individual who is trying, and cares? Wow! :thwap:
I think my head's about full. Some species usually survive global correction, hopefully it will be mankind. We've done some wonderful things, and some not so wonderful. I'd like to think somebody'll be around to play those guitars, tho.
Nice thread, Sunvalley, food for thought, and good discussion.:AOK:

[LagrangeCalvert]

99% of all species that have been on this rock are extinct - by us or by nature being the great reaper.....we're just the same. just because we have sentience doesn't make us any different - so IMHO we were evolved into the grave - unless our monkey brains can think a way out of this vicious circle.

[just strum]

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