12ax7

[SuperSwede]

Whats the difference in sound between cheaper 12ax7 tubes and the more expensive variants?

[Tone2TheBone]

Don't go cheap bro. Get the best for that bad boy H&K. ;)

There is a big difference in types of preamp tubes you bet. As far as the difference in sound in terms of price differences I don't know. Some "cheaper" tubes can sound good, depends on what you want to do. It can get expensive trying different makes of tubes but in the end it's worth the experimenting till you find a good combo.

[duhvoodooman]

Whats the difference in sound between cheaper 12ax7 tubes and the more expensive variants?
Price. :rotflmao:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Assuming you are referring only to current production tubes (as opposed to "new old stock" or NOS tubes, which are more expensive for fairly obvious supply vs. demand reasons), the main differences are the quality of the design, internal components, and construction, and how tightly controlled the performance variations are, tube to tube. Indeed, this is one big reason why NOS tubes tend to be so highly sought out--they were made to much tighter spec limits than most current production tubes, often for critical military uses. The good news is that, with the resurgence in the popularity of tubes for use in audiophile and musical instrument amplification in recent years, the overall quality of current production tubes seems to be steadly improving. The JJ's are an excellent example of this.

[oldguy]

I've only bought cheap 12AX7's a few times. They were "iffy", meaning I got some good ones and some bad ones. The bad ones quickly went microphonic, sounded raspy and brittle, ice-pick-y in your ear 'till they crapped out.
I now buy JJ's, kind of mid-level priced, and have good luck.
Lots of reviews seemed to like JJ's, and Tung Sol. The Svetlana "Winged C" 12AX7 has also gotten good reviews.
I won't buy really cheap tubes anymore, too much of a gamble.......
There's a basic overview here you might want to read........

http://reviews.ebay.com/12ax7-6l6-Tube-Reviews-Improving-the-Tone-of-Your-Amp_W0QQugidZ10000000003445606?ssPageName=BUYGD:CA T:-1:LISTINGS:5

[Algonquin]

Super... do you have a shop close by that sells tubes, or will you have to order over the net?

[SuperSwede]

My local guitar store sells most brands, but I really dont think that they know much about tubes. And usually they only recommend the most expensive stuff ;)

Its only one tube that I would try to replace so I´m not afraid to buy a expensive tube. What do you guys think about Fenders GT tubes?

[duhvoodooman]

What do you guys think about Fenders GT tubes?
From what I've read, OK but nothing special. The JJ's get better reviews, and are cheaper. And as OG mentioned, Tung Sols have an excellent reputation, and current production versions are pretty reasonably priced (~$15 in the US).

[SuperSwede]

From what I've read, OK but nothing special. The JJ's get better reviews, and are cheaper. And as OG mentioned, Tung Sols have an excellent reputation, and current production versions are pretty reasonably priced (~$15 in the US).

I saw that they had Tung Sols (gold) for a rather hefty price. Might as well buy a JJ as well.

[sunvalleylaw]

I have no experience with comparing expensive to more economical tubes, but I can tell you that the 12Ax7s in my C30 are groove tubes (they were in when I got the amph), and that the other EL84s in my amph are Sovtek. Any of my recent clips I posted were through those tubes.

[Tone2TheBone]

My local guitar store sells most brands, but I really dont think that they know much about tubes. And usually they only recommend the most expensive stuff ;)

Its only one tube that I would try to replace so I´m not afraid to buy a expensive tube. What do you guys think about Fenders GT tubes?

My Blues Jr. came with the Fender labled GTs stock. I switched them out for JJs but actually found that I liked the stock GTs better...for that particular amp that is. They gave a more Fendery midrange sound which is what I loved about the Blues Jr. to begin with. I found the JJs to be more wide spread as far as their frequency response which normally would be a good thing...just preferred the sound of the GTs in that BJ that's all. You'll never know until you start trying out different tubes FOR YOUR OWN EARS. I don't know how your tubes in that thing are arranged but it would be interesting to hear what you come up with. JJs are usually good tubes. I did get one microphonic GT Mullard reissue once and that sucker cost $24.

[oldguy]

SS, if the author is correct (in the link I posted above), the Groove Tube you refer to is nothing more than a Chinese Shuguang re-badged as a GT.
The chinese tubes supposedly are getting better in quality, but most reviews don't favor them highly, except for the reviews posted by sellers.........:whatever: I've never tried them, tho.
OOPS! Just saw your post, Tone.... well, that proves the point... most reviews don't mean a thing..... it's what your ears like.
Sunvalley,
Sovteks are another tube that used to get a lot of bashing, but my Traynor came w/ them, and I liked them. My Dad's Traynor came with them, and his amp buzzed and hummed 'til we retubed it........ so........ there 'ya go....:thwap:

[SuperSwede]

My Blues Jr. came with the Fender labled GTs stock. I switched them out for JJs but actually found that I liked the stock GTs better...for that particular amp that is. They gave a more Fendery midrange sound which is what I loved about the Blues Jr. to begin with. I found the JJs to be more wide spread as far as their frequency response which normally would be a good thing...just preferred the sound of the GTs in that BJ that's all. You'll never know until you start trying out different tubes FOR YOUR OWN EARS. I don't know how your tubes in that thing are arranged but it would be interesting to hear what you come up with. JJs are usually good tubes. I did get one microphonic GT Mullard reissue once and that sucker cost $24.

It sounds good already but I would really like to try out a few tubes... maybe I can improve the sound even more :)

The tube it came with seems to be (cannot see the entire text) T A D ecc83 hand selected.

The clean channel has a sound not too far away from early Mesa/Boogies.. I would probably prefer to have a more fenderish sparkly tone with more midrange. A different tube might just be able to do that?

[Tone2TheBone]

It sounds good already but I would really like to try out a few tubes... maybe I can improve the sound even more :)

The tube it came with seems to be (cannot see the entire text) T A D ecc83 hand selected.

The clean channel has a sound not too far away from early Mesa/Boogies.. I would probably prefer to have a more fenderish sparkly tone with more midrange. A different tube might just be able to do that?

On amps yeah...on pedals I don't know. Maybe? If it sounds good already then why change it? Oh yeah I forgot...cause you want to. :bravo: Go for it buddy! Remember my Jimi reference, sometimes the unorthodox things work best...and use your own ears!

[M29]

I put JJ's in my Valve Junior and wow what a difference. I wish I could pursue NOS tubes but I have put enough money in that thing:confused:

M29

[oldguy]

TAD = Tube Amp Doctor........ supposed to be good stuff.

[Bloozcat]

I've always liked NOS tubes, both pre-amp and power. I picked up quite a few before the prices got totally whack. But I have to tell you, the new production Tung Sol 12AX7's are awfully good. They're warm, tight, and they sound very much like a good NOS tube in OD. I'd surely buy them over the now ridiculously high priced NOS if I didn't already have some put away.

The JJ's are probably the best deal on a 12AX7. They're solid performers, and the price is right. I'm not really big on the Shuguang 12AX7's, though. They're good tubes, but they seem to be better suited for high gain amps like Mesa's. The Shuguang power tubes though are getting better by the day practically. The Chinese seem to be making a real committment to producing good tubes, which is good for we tube amp lovers. Between Tung Sol and Shuguang things are looking brighter for the tube market.

Now if only one of them would come out with a good EL84 that sounds like a Telefunken, Mullard, Tungsram, or an RCA...:)

[duhvoodooman]

...deleted/unhijacked. :o

[SuperSwede]

On amps yeah...on pedals I don't know. Maybe? If it sounds good already then why change it? Oh yeah I forgot...cause you want to. :bravo: Go for it buddy! Remember my Jimi reference, sometimes the unorthodox things work best...and use your own ears!

Most pedals/preamps run their tubes "cold" but this thing runs the tube plate at full blast.. high voltage rock´n´roll.

Oldguy, Tube Amp Doctor? Never heard of them before.. asian production?

[mrmudcat]

Swede TAD is considered an upgrade although midrange.They are designed in germany but now chinese made.(big investment in Shuguang)Lots better out there:beer:

[Kazz]

that is one of those questions I need to answer about my classic 30....thinking either Tesla tubes (mainly for the name) or Groove Tubes because I love Brad Paisley's sound....but.....is there anyway I can make my peavey sound like a Marshall?

[F_BSurfer]

When it comes to new production 12ax7's the tung sol new production gets my vote don't bother with gold pin I can't tell any difference except price. The new production mullard is also very nice but couple bucks more the new EH are half the money and sound very good.

El84's in my pro jr i have settled on a set of TADs but in my VJR I like the JJ best in my pro jr the grove tube sounds better than the JJ also the new production mullard sounds better but in the VJR the JJ wins hands down with just a couple tubes its easy to experiment

[Robert]

Here's what I think. The Russian-made Electro Harmonix 12ax7 is great. It's not one of those overpriced tubes - it's cheap, but it's good!

I don't buy the hype regarding expensive tubes. :nono:

For example - http://thetubestore.com/ehx12ax7.html

[Radioboy950]

Man, I've been sucked into tube hell. But I must admit it can be a rather fun place, experimenting with a variety of pre-amp tubes. They can--in a BIG way--change the tonal response of your amp(h).

I've discovered the following things in the quest for great tone:
*If you get new production tubes from somebody who is taking the time to really check them, test them for gain, etc., you'll have a pretty good shot at getting quality tubes that don't have to cost an arm and a leg. There are several great vendors out there who will answer all your questions and give you great product for your particular amp and personal prefs.

*There are tons of 12AX7's in the $10-$15 range which are great in almost any amp, including the Tung Sol reissues. I have them in V1/V2 right now. The JJ ECC83S is good too...very quiet, nice gain. But my amp became a little too dark with JJs in every socket. Doug (from Doug's tubes) turned me onto Penta Labs' select Chinese version of the 9th gen Shuguang. Very nice tube in V1.

On the web:
Tube guru, Myles Rose, has some great info on his web pages. Here's a page on the 12AX7 family
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/12ax7.html

Quality vendors include :
http://www.dougstubes.com
http://www.kcanostubes.com
http://www.eurotubes.com

[Tone2TheBone]

Here's what I think. The Russian-made Electro Harmonix 12ax7 is great. It's not one of those overpriced tubes - it's cheap, but it's good!

I don't buy the hype regarding expensive tubes. :nono:

For example - http://thetubestore.com/ehx12ax7.html

For once I am in agreement with you boss. Some Russian and Chinese tubes can make certain amps growl nicely. Some are harsh but some work well.

[Robert]

For once???? Do I need come over and spank you?
:deadhorse:

[Tone2TheBone]

For once???? Do I need come over and spank you?
:deadhorse:

hahaha Ok ok yeah Scott Henderson rocks too. :AOK:

[WackyT]

I'm using 2 x EH 12AX7 & 1 x (Fender branded) EH 12AT7 in my Pignose G40V, and I think it sounds very good.

[oldguy]

I'm using 2 x EH 12AX7 & 1 x (Fender branded) EH 12AT7 in my Pignose G40V, and I think it sounds very good.

Those Pignose 40 watters are supposed to sound really good, judging from a lot of the reviews I've read.
Wacky, does yours run hot???

[WackyT]

Those Pignose 40 watters are supposed to sound really good, judging from a lot of the reviews I've read.
Wacky, does yours run hot???

Not since I changed the 6.8 volt AC heater wiring to 6.1 volt DC. That reduced the running temp alot. It also killed the 60Hz hum, which is why I did the mod in the first place.

[oldguy]

Great!
I'd read somewhere about some of the earlier ones smelling hot, or getting hot, and wondered about that.
Thanks for the info!:)

[WackyT]

Great!
I'd read somewhere about some of the earlier ones smelling hot, or getting hot, and wondered about that.
Thanks for the info!:)

Mine smelled and felt hot when I first got her, but she doesn't anymore. I've never opened her up volume-wise though. Don't think my apartment neighbors would appreciate that.;)

Here's some good sources for mods on the G40V:

GuitarNuts (http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/g40v/index.php)
The Blue Guitar (http://blueguitar.org/new/articles/blue_gtr/amps/g40v_mod.pdf)
Clark Huckaby (http://www.clarkhuckaby.com/AmpMods/Pignose.html)

End Of Hijack

[Radioboy950]

Mine smelled and felt hot when I first got her

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Sorry...just couldn't resist.

[WackyT]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Sorry...just couldn't resist.

Glad you liked that line. Thought someone would.:D

[kerc]

I would recommend ElectroHarmonix 12AX7 tubes. Great sound, lots of definition.

[Radioboy950]

I would recommend ElectroHarmonix 12AX7 tubes. Great sound, lots of definition.

Of course, shop were you like, but I happened to notice the EH is on sale*
http://www.tubedepot.com/eh-12ax7.html.
At $7.95, I'm gonna grab a few just to try.

*No affiliation whatsoever. Just a bargain hunter:D

[kerc]

Thanks for the lead! Just bought two high-gain 12AX7s. :D