difference in basement sound vs playing out

[birv2]

I'm looking for some advice here. As a basement player who is just starting to play out at jams, I've noticed that what sounds awesome in the basement often sounds like crap live. For instance, I'll fiddle with my Tubulator till I get a sound I really like and memorize the settings.

Jam night comes around, I plug in the pedal and try to wail, and it starts to sound all mushy, totally different than in the basement. For instance, I had the overdrive all the way up. Now, the Tubulator is a TS clone and doesn't have a huge amount of overdrive. But it went from creamy (in the basement) to mushy (at the bar) without changing the settings on the guitar, the amp, or the pedal.

The other factor here is you have only a few minutes to get ready for "your" set, you don't know who you'll be playing with till just before you go up (not even what instruments there will be), and of course, the "set list" is pretty improv. I don't mind the randomness, but I sure would like to sound good!

I was reading one thread on the FDP, and lots of people were saying, turn down and use less gain. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance,
Bob

[marnold]

The differences are manifold. The acoustics of your basement are far different from a bar--especially a bar packed with people. You are also "competing" with other musicians, especially the drummer. Too much low-end will make things muddy and run into competition with the bass player. Focus on the mid-range and do everything for that extra bit of clarity, including the aforementioned lowering of gain.

[t_ross33]

+1. Every room is different when playing out. I've had nights when I can't even hear myself on stage (though it sounds good in the Front of House mix) - mostly due to bass and drums getting all muddy sounding.

Dial back on the gain - a little goes a long way and helps cut through. An EQ pedal might help tweak some mid frequencies for you.

Trev

[markb]

What Trev said. Less gain and more level on the pedal is the way to go. Your amp will probably be turned up too giving more power amp distortion so again less front end gain is required. I used a TS-5 with a Pro Junior for a few years and in a live situation I doubt if the gain on the TS was set higher than 10 o'clock. I was playing a Les Paul with that rig so, for a strat, notch it up a bit.

[Katastrophe]

Setting your amph up on a chair or an amp stand helps out a bit, too, if you angle the amph back a bit. It gets the sound up off of the floor and closer to your ear, helping you to figure out how you sound in the mix.

[Spudman]

Less distortion - lift your amph up so that you can hear it - turn up your master volume. If you have to leave the amph on the floor tilt it toward your head. If that doesn't work tell everyone else to turn down.

[t_ross33]

If that doesn't work tell everyone else to turn down.

Has that ever worked for ya, Spud? :D

Controlling stage volume and a good monitor mix is a particular mission of mine, but our bass player/singer is already half deaf and our drummer is a hair-metal export, so I'm usually SOL :thwap: Gonna be investing in in-ear monitors or earplugs soon I'm sure. We're pretty rawkin for a little ol' country band :beer:

Trev

[birv2]

Good advice from everyone. Thanks!

Now that I think about it, I had some pretty good success the first time I jammed with my new JV, when I didn't use any pedal. I just cranked the volume a bit for solos (maybe from 5 up to 8). I also think there's a lot you can do with changing pickups and adjusting tone knobs. So maybe I'll try playing "naked" next time (just guitar and amp) and see what happens.

Maybe it's every guitarist's firmly held belief that stepping on some magic pedal will suddenly boost your talent too! Nice to have a crutch like that.:dude:

http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/thum_211647aae3e09009e.gif (http://www.thefret.net/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=233)

Bob

[Katastrophe]

So maybe I'll try playing "naked" next time (just guitar and amp) and see what happens.


Works for Warren and his pancakes...:pancake: :poke: :D

Set your volume level for what you'll need for a solo to cut through on the amph, keeping your guitar's volume at 10. Then, roll your volume knob back enough to fit in with the rest of the band for rhythm. Crank that sucker for a solo, repeat as needed. Voila! Instant boost knob, no pedal necessary.

[Spudman]

Has that ever worked for ya, Spud? :D

Trev

Once. After that I had to hit the guy.:D

[Plank_Spanker]

Birv,

It's amazing just how much your sound can change from home to on a stage, isn't it? I play fairly regular gigs, and my sound is different from room to room. Turning down the gain is good advice. Too much gain drains your midrange punch, and that is where guitars make their living. The same goes for too much reverb or other modulating FX. That's not saying to play naked - just use your gain and modulation FX sparingly - a little dab will do you on a stage. Take some time to EQ your rig to the spot where it will sit in nicely with the rest of the mix but still be distinctive. This might take a tune or two in the heat of battle to dial in. After a few live shows, you'll have a baseline EQ to use as a reference, but keep in mind it changes from room to room.

[birv2]

Good points, Plank.

I don't use any modulation effects at this point. Just a Strat through a Pro Jr, with a revolving cast of overdrive pedals (Dano D2, Tubulator, TS9DX, and Behringer OD100). One thing I need to remember is that the PJ doesn't have much clean headroom, so cranking the volume will usually overdrive the amp. The guitar and amp are new to me, so I'm still learning what works and what doesn't. As you say, every room is different, too.

What overdrive do you use, and where do you usually set the gain and volume?

Bob

[birv2]

I played out last night with my current rig: JV strat, Pro Jr amp, and TS9-DX. This time instead of a jam, I sat in for a few songs with a local blues band (my first time doing this, but that's another story).

After this discussion here, I took everyone's advice and turned down the gain. Settings as follows: PJ volume on 9 (out of 12), guitar volume starting around 5 or 6 and then up for leads. TS9DX gain on 11:00, level about 12:00, tone about 11:00, and using TS9 mode. I kept the pedal on the whole time and just turned up the guitar for lead.

First of all, I got some serious compliments on tone (the leader of the band said I had THE blues tone!). And secondly, even though that particular TS setting sounded a bit thin in my basement, it came off warm and singing and even pretty liquidy at the bar. Maybe the other liquids helped...

Thanks for everyone's input! Again, the fretters steer me right.

Bob

ps -- there was even a TS fan club at a table down front, about 4 or 5 young dudes who were cheering the choice of pedal ("Tube Screamer, man! You rock!"). First time I've experienced applause for a gear choice....

:rockon:

[Spudman]

Cool. Glad everything worked out. Please send your check to......:D

Go Tubescreamer!:bravo:

[markb]

ps -- there was even a TS fan club at a table down front, about 4 or 5 young dudes who were cheering the choice of pedal ("Tube Screamer, man! You rock!"). First time I've experienced applause for a gear choice....

:rockon:

"They looked the band gear over and noted with delight
that the guitar amp was a Bassman and the bassman played upright

Robbie Fulks, Roots Rock Wierdoes :D

Glad it worked out OK. A TS and a pro junior can produce some great tones with no extra help.

[Plank_Spanker]

First of all, I got some serious compliments on tone (the leader of the band said I had THE blues tone!). And secondly, even though that particular TS setting sounded a bit thin in my basement, it came off warm and singing and even pretty liquidy at the bar. Maybe the other liquids helped...

Excellent! :AOK:

[pes_laul]

Works for Warren and his pancakes...:pancake: :poke: :D

Set your volume level for what you'll need for a solo to cut through on the amph, keeping your guitar's volume at 10. Then, roll your volume knob back enough to fit in with the rest of the band for rhythm. Crank that sucker for a solo, repeat as needed. Voila! Instant boost knob, no pedal necessary.
I wonder if you could do the same thing except for instead of using your volume knob use a volume pedal? just a thought

[markb]

I wonder if you could do the same thing except for instead of using your volume knob use a volume pedal? just a thought

It'll do more or less the same thing. Put the volume pedal before the OD pedal to control the gain or after OD as more of a "master volume" effect.

[birv2]

I wonder if you could do the same thing except for instead of using your volume knob use a volume pedal? just a thought

I'm sure I could, but then I'd have to buy a volume pedal. And while I like the idea of stepping on a pedal to turn up, I do already have a volume knob on my guitar that I already paid for...:)