Buzz Feiten

[tot_Ou_tard]

I love a well-tuned guitar. I had always thought that the Buzz Feiten system consisted of different spacings for the frets.

I was wrong. It is a compensated nut (similar to Earvana) together with some slight offsets for the saddle when intonating (acoustics need a new compensated saddle).

Since I have a Peterson Strobostomp with the Buzz Feiten offsets built-in, I could easily intonate an electric guitar with this system.

Has anyone tried this system?

[Kodiak3D]

Both of my guitars (both Washburns) have the Buzz Feiten system. I'm just a beginner, but I do know how to intonate my strings and I have very little difficulty doing so on my guitars.

I think just about every guitar Washburn makes now has the BF system.

[tot_Ou_tard]

Both of my guitars (both Washburns) have the Buzz Feiten system. I'm just a beginner, but I do know how to intonate my strings and I have very little difficulty doing so on my guitars.

I think just about every guitar Washburn makes now has the BF system.

I didn't know that. I'll have to take a look at the Washburns ;).

Does anyone have experience with both Buzz & non Buzz guitars to know if it is something worth considering?

[just strum]

I didn't know that. I'll have to take a look at the Washburns ;).

Does anyone have experience with both Buzz & non Buzz guitars to know if it is something worth considering?

None of my Washburn's had the system. I've done some reading on it (reviews) and didn't come away with anything one way or the other. It's a typical some love it, others think it's a selling gimmick. So I only can say I have nothing to offer on your decision.

You can install it on your existing guitars should you decide it's something you want.

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/

[tot_Ou_tard]

None of my Washburn's had the system. I've done some reading on it (reviews) and didn't come away with anything one way or the other. It's a typical some love it, others think it's a selling gimmick. So I only can say I have nothing to offer on your decision.

You can install it on your existing guitars should you decide it's something you want.

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/
YYes, I was trying to decide (in the words of David Letterman)

Is This Anything?

I did see that one can have guitars retrofit for $139. Not bad if it makes a huge difference, quite a lot if it's a gimmick.

[Kodiak3D]

Yes, unfortunately, I can't give a comparison on whether it's worth it or not. Mine have them simply because they were made that way.

[just strum]

I did see that one can have guitars retrofit for $139. Not bad if it makes a huge difference, quite a lot if it's a gimmick.

One of the authorized dealers is the store I visit in Kent, I will have to talk to them the next time I'm there.

[tot_Ou_tard]

One of the authorized dealers is the store I visit in Kent, I will have to talk to them the next time I'm there.
Thanks Strum!

Nice Ric in your avatar. Do you want/have one? That'd be a good choice for the Rhythm Machine thread.

[just strum]

Thanks Strum!

Nice Ric in your avatar. Do you want/have one? That'd be a good choice for the Rhythm Machine thread.

Unfortunately it's in the "want" column - a much, much bigger column than the "have" column.

A friend of mine has a new one and it's a GAS producer.

[oldguy]

I've never played a BF modded guitar. Some people swear by them, others, not so much. I've always just accepted the fact no string instrument can be 100% intonated up and down the fretboard, and most people won't notice enough to let it bother them. On the other hand, if a person is totally anal/ O/C enough, you can find someone always willing to help ease your mind (and wallet).
Here's one place you could start (@ $750) the quest for "perfect" intonation.
(It's the frets, silly. That's where you correct it. )


http://www.truetemperament.com/main.php

:messedup: :messedup: :messedup:



http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/thum_11547cae603e6249.jpg (http://www.thefret.net/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=356)

[just strum]

The last birthday cake I posted had those frets.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/guitar.jpg

[Jimi75]

I have talked to some guitar builders as I thought of Feitening my Les Paul. In the end it all sounded so complicated like with the Strobo and intonating in a different manner so I went for the Earvana saddle solution that is already ordered and should be installed within the next two weeks.

Anyway, I think those people who go for the BF solution will be pretty happy with it.

[tot_Ou_tard]

Yeah, that true temperament guitar was posted here before. ;)

Jimi, I have a strobostomp so that eliminates one of your concerns.

I wouldn't do it to one of my inexpensive Godins. I was really wondering whether it should play a part in future gear decisions, or should I get a nice guitar.

Old guy, I know that a guitar will never be in tune & even if it could be there is still the oddities of the well-tempered scale, but every bit of fudging adds up.

[strumsalot]

If you barre a chord or use a capo, do you take the compensated nut out of the equation???

[Rocket]

If you barre a chord or use a capo, do you take the compensated nut out of the equation???
Absolutely!
Buzz Feiten is a marketing tool at best... just one more excuse generator for ultra-perfectionists. Like $600 strobe tuners.
Just pick it up, tune it up, and play the thing!

[Plank_Spanker]

I've never played a BF modded guitar. Some people swear by them, others, not so much. I've always just accepted the fact no string instrument can be 100% intonated up and down the fretboard, and most people won't notice enough to let it bother them.

Same here. I've always accepted that I'll never dial in a guitar to perfection. While I have a good ear, it's not platinum plated.............:D

[Cal]

Tot, FWIW here's some info on Compensated Nuts (http://www.mimf.com/nutcomp///).

Being a detail freak I enjoy this sort of stuff. :whatever:

[tot_Ou_tard]

Absolutely!
Buzz Feiten is a marketing tool at best... just one more excuse generator for ultra-perfectionists. Like $600 strobe tuners.
Just pick it up, tune it up, and play the thing!
It's great to have a solid opinion.

...I'll still look into compensated nuts (thanks Cal).

I think it's because I'm an uncompensated nut.

Perfection?!? That's akin to death. No thankee.

[Plank_Spanker]

It's great to have a solid opinion.

...I'll still look into compensated nuts (thanks Cal).

I think it's because I'm an uncompensated nut.

Perfection?!? That's akin to death. No thankee.

Tot,

I know some players that swear by the Buzz Feiten system. I think most of the doubt about it has come from the lack of true information about it. I've asked about it before, but have yet to receive a clearly understandable answer. From the meager facts I've gathered, the nut is compensated and makes for great open chords. I can't see it doing anything beyond that.

Fill us in on your impressions if you buy a BF guitar. I'd be most interested.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I'll let you know Spanky, but I don't think that I'll go out of my way to get one.

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that a compensated nut is supposed to affect the intonation of the entire fretboard as it changes the tension of the string. This is most apparent *near* the nut. The claim is that it sweetens fretted notes in the first five or so frets. If true, that is alot of useful terrain.

I have no experience, but it may be that it's a little to simple to say that a barre or capo removes the nut from the picture.

[strumsalot]

but I don't think that I'll go out of my way to get one.
I wouldn't either. My Washburn D82SW was equipped with Buzz Feiten, the nut has since been replaced with bone. IMHO the intonation is neither worse or better since the change.

[Rocket]

I have no experience, but it may be that it's a little to simple to say that a barre or capo removes the nut from the picture.
Think about it.
Once any note is fretted, the nut IS out of the picture... bypassed by the offending finger or capo.

[tot_Ou_tard]

Think about it.
Once any note is fretted, the nut IS out of the picture... bypassed by the offending finger or capo.
That sounds right, but lets say I exaggerate things & put the nut a mile away from the first fret & tune her up.

Then you barre the first fret. It seems like there'd be a difference between that & your standard guitar.

I'm sure that you're correct, but do the following anyway.

Tune up as normal & fret a note on, say, the fifth fret.

Now capo the fourth fret & tune to standard. Now fret the same note. Sounds different.

How could it? Your finger just took the capo out of the picture.

I'm not yet convinced one way or the other. I need some physics.

[oldguy]

Whatever you decide, Tot, keep us posted. I'd be interested in your opinion.
I can understand the theory behind it, if you change the length of the bridge saddles, it affects intonation. Should work similarly on the other end...:confused: Like I said, I've never played a BF equipped axe, so my opinion means squat. I've always just done a setup and hoped for the best........:)

[marnold]

I think we all must agree that "Buzz Feiten and the Compensated Nuts" would be a great name for a band.

[mrmudcat]

Tot sorry I missed it.I have an washburn idol with the B.F. and frankly I cant tell much difference if any.(but im not a chord strummer on electric:rockon: )Now I do have some guitars with the enut(same concept) and I like it alot!!! It is less intrusive to add onto a guitar~~ Barring , or adding a capo(fretting a note) takes the nut out of the picture in my opinion.

http://www.monteallums.com/enut_tuning.html#ensupp

[Kodiak3D]

While I'm still a beginner, I don't think fretting a string doesn't take the nut completely out of the equation. With the BF system (as I understand it), the nut is slightly closer to the first fret than normal. While it may not serve a purpose once a string is fretted, the string is TUNED using the nut. The string is effectively shorter than a non-BF guitar. I would think that would make a difference when it is fretted.

Did I make any sense? It's hard to explain what I'm thinking.

[wingsdad]

Frankly, I just don't see the need for the BFTS on any electric with individual bridge saddles to adjust individual string lengths. As for acoustics, there's compensated saddles either stock or that you can retrofit that can do the same thing.

Sorry, but I think 'ol Buzzy is making a mint off psychsomatic tuning issues, especially since he's in cahoots with tuner manufacturers to encourage selling special models of tuners to use with his BSTS...

[Kodiak3D]

Frankly, I just don't see the need for the BFTS on any electric with individual bridge saddles to adjust individual string lengths.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Before I got my Washburns, I read up about the BF system and only somewhat understood its point. There didn't seem to be any disadvantages to it, so I went ahead with my purchase. However, with what Wingsdad said, that really does make me wonder what the point of it is.

[Rocket]

...with what Wingsdad said, that really does make me wonder what the point of it is.
The point is: It's one more marketing tool that sells guitars to people hoping that the iota of "difference" will somehow make them be able to jam with the big-dogs sooner or easier.
You'll see a bunch of "names" hawking the concept but those same "names" don't actually use that miracle technology on their own instruments... like the "names" that take picture after picture holding no-name manufacturer's products, (for some healthy payola,) and then grab their perked Fender/Gibson/Taylor and go back to work.
Ok, I'm a cynic... but that's how the market really spins!

[tot_Ou_tard]

The point is: It's one more marketing tool that sells guitars to people hoping that the iota of "difference" will somehow make them be able to jam with the big-dogs sooner or easier.
You'll see a bunch of "names" hawking the concept but those same "names" don't actually use that miracle technology on their own instruments... like the "names" that take picture after picture holding no-name manufacturer's products, (for some healthy payola,) and then grab their perked Fender/Gibson/Taylor and go back to work.
Ok, I'm a cynic... but that's how the market really spins!
That may be what motivates Buzz, but none of it matters a whiff to me.

Since noone that has experience has made a strong argument for the system, it probably matters little. I'm not going to go out of my way.

I'd still be interested in some science. There is an answer. It's an easy experiment.

Take a nicely intonated guitar and fret every note: measure the pitch.

Now install Buzz Feiten & intonate & tune according to the system.

Now measure the pitch of every note.

Compare.

Now do this for say 100 guitars & average ;).

So who's up for a little home science in the name of truth :D ?

[just strum]

T
Now do this for say 100 guitars & average ;).

So who's up for a little home science in the name of truth :D ?

I'm just up to playing - if it sounds good and feels good - play it.

[Kodiak3D]

I'm just up to playing - if it sounds good and feels good - play it.

Amen, brother!
:rockon:

[oldguy]

That may be what motivates Buzz, but none of it matters a whiff to me.

Since noone that has experience has made a strong argument for the system, it probably matters little. I'm not going to go out of my way.

I'd still be interested in some science. There is an answer. It's an easy experiment.

Take a nicely intonated guitar and fret every note: measure the pitch.

Now install Buzz Feiten & intonate & tune according to the system.

Now measure the pitch of every note.

Compare.

Now do this for say 100 guitars & average ;).

So who's up for a little home science in the name of truth :D ?

Tot, it'd be easier to just listen to, say, 100 clips or videos on youtube, maybe SRV, Hendrix, EVH, or whoever your favorites are.
Make sure they DON"T have Buzz Feiten systems, then listen for out of tune notes as they're playing.......:pancake:

[Dreadman]

The BF system is nothing more than a novel method of compensating a nut - which will improve intonation - albeit a very small amount. similar to the Earvana and others it's a "generic" or "production line" method and doesn't focus on an individual guitar.

The kicker is that any luthier or competent tech can custom compensate any existing nut for $50 or less.

[Dreadman]

I didn't read this whole thing but at a glance it looks like it describes the procedure pretty well.

http://www.mimf.com/nutcomp/

[Katastrophe]

I don't know anything about the BF system, since I've never played on a guitar with it installed.

I do know that there are countless guitars out there without it, and seem to be doing just fine.

Most bridge systems allow for different string lengths in their design for intonating the guitar. It would seem to me that this would take the need for a compensated nut out of the equation, for the most part. Is it going to be perfect? Nope. Is $139.00 for the BF system worth it to get a teensy bit closer to perfect? Not for me.

My prescription for overcoming intonation problems:

1. Grab string.
2. Shake like hell.
3. Make really cool guitar face.
4. Repeat as necessary!

Marnold: :rotflmao:

[hubberjub]

I used to have a Musicman John Petrucci model which came with a compensated nut. There was a fairly noticable difference in the intonation of the lower frets. By the way, fretting a note does not take the compensated nut out of the equation because you are physically changing where the frets fall under the string in relation to the string length. The way a standard guitar is set up it will never be in perfect tune. Look at how far out of tune the seventh (or 19th)fret harmonics are compared to a fretted note. However, this raises a real question. How can it really be rock and roll if your guitar is in tune? I noticed a difference and I didn't run out and retrofit my other guitars. I even sold the Musicman. Not because of the nut, the neck was just too thin. Intonation problems are very common in musical instruments. The piano uses a tempered tuning. That's why they don't tune them with a tuner, they just tune by ear. A fret being a few cents off here or there isn't going to have a huge impact on someone listening to the music.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I didn't read this whole thing but at a glance it looks like it describes the procedure pretty well.

http://www.mimf.com/nutcomp/
Thanks Dreadman! I'll go read it.



Tot, it'd be easier to just listen to, say, 100 clips or videos on youtube, maybe SRV, Hendrix, EVH, or whoever your favorites are.
Make sure they DON"T have Buzz Feiten systems, then listen for out of tune notes as they're playing.......:pancake:

I'll see you in a coupl'a weeks Old Guy ;).


I used to have a Musicman John Petrucci model which came with a compensated nut. There was a fairly noticable difference in the intonation of the lower frets. By the way, fretting a note does not take the compensated nut out of the equation because you are physically changing where the frets fall under the string in relation to the string length. The way a standard guitar is set up it will never be in perfect tune. Look at how far out of tune the seventh (or 19th)fret harmonics are compared to a fretted note. However, this raises a real question. How can it really be rock and roll if your guitar is in tune? I noticed a difference and I didn't run out and retrofit my other guitars. I even sold the Musicman. Not because of the nut, the neck was just too thin. Intonation problems are very common in musical instruments. The piano uses a tempered tuning. That's why they don't tune them with a tuner, they just tune by ear. A fret being a few cents off here or there isn't going to have a huge impact on someone listening to the music.
Very clear! Thanks Hubberjub.

It handles all the points.

1) Yes it affects intonation.

2) Physics says fretting does not bring the nut out of the equation.

3) Personal experience: it changes things but who cares.

But I disagree that it can't be rock n' roll if the intonation isn't off ;).

Besides guitars can be used for other types of music as well.

Thanks for all the great discussion everyone.

[mark wein]

I've just read through all of this...

I have 2 Suhrs that have th Buzz Fieten intonation and several other guitars without. I am not really hip to the science, but the Feiten guitars that I own really are better intonated throughout the whole instrument. I don't think that I would retrofit a guitar that didn't come with it, though. I know someone who had it done and it didn't turn out the same as my guitars.

I really think that guitars that have the process done in the manufacturing process (for whatever reason) really benefit from the system....I love it and wouldn't order another Suhr without it but do I miss it on my Les Paul? no....

[tot_Ou_tard]

Thanks Mark, I was gonna ask you about your Suhr.


I didn't realize that you had two!

So here's what we do, you send me one of yours & I'll let you know whether I like the system or not ;).

[mark wein]

Thanks Mark, I was gonna ask you about your Suhr.


I didn't realize that you had two!

So here's what we do, you send me one of yours & I'll let you know whether I like the system or not ;).




I don't think so




:D