Question about "solid" bodies.

[Kodiak3D]

Newbie-ish question:

OK, say you have a Squier, an SX, a Fender MIM, and an American Fender strat and each is advertised as having a "solid alder body."

However, the definition of "solid" can certainly mean different things. As far as I know, most (if not all) Squiers are made of different pieces of wood glued together and shaped into a strat body. The American strat (and I presume the MIM) are made of a single piece of wood. I'm not sure about the SX, but I presume it's similar to the Squier. (If I'm wrong about any of these, please correct me.)

How can you tell which guitars are built from a single piece versus several pieces? Also, is it really fair advertising to call a multi-piece body a "solid" body?

[Adrian30]

I don't know how SX guitars are made, but I think is fair to call a multi-piece body a "solid body", meaning not chambered, semi-hollow, or completely hollow as in acoustic or jazz boxes.

[SuperSwede]

How can you tell which guitars are built from a single piece versus several pieces?

check the price tag? :pancake:

[tunghaichuan]

My understanding is that solid bodies are just that: made of solid wood, i.e., not plywood.

A solid body can be and usually is made of more than one piece of wood unless it is advertised as being a "one-piece" body. Even the higher end Amercan standard strats have at least two-piece bodies unless it is specifically stated that they have one-piece bodies.

The less expensive guitars tend to have three or more pieces to the body, it just makes economic sense as it is getting harder and harder to find full-width solid planks for one-piece bodies.

With clear or sunburst finishes, it is easy to tell if the body is made of two or more pieces. Obviously, with solid/opaque finishes it is harder to tell.

As long as the body is made of pieces of solid wood, it isn't really plywood, so I don't have a problem calling it a solid body.

HTH,

tung


Newbie-ish question:

OK, say you have a Squier, an SX, a Fender MIM, and an American Fender strat and each is advertised as having a "solid alder body."

However, the definition of "solid" can certainly mean different things. As far as I know, most (if not all) Squiers are made of different pieces of wood glued together and shaped into a strat body. The American strat (and I presume the MIM) are made of a single piece of wood. I'm not sure about the SX, but I presume it's similar to the Squier. (If I'm wrong about any of these, please correct me.)

How can you tell which guitars are built from a single piece versus several pieces? Also, is it really fair advertising to call a multi-piece body a "solid" body?

[marnold]

Only really expensive guitars will be one-piece. Even then, you might have a flame-maple top or something similar that will add at least one if not two extra pieces of wood. If you look at the back of the guitar at an angle in the light, you can sometimes tell where the seams are--at least if the guitar has a glossy finish.

And, as Tung said, it is solid as opposed to being a hollow body or made of plywood.

[tunghaichuan]

Only really expensive guitars will be one-piece. Even then, you might have a flame-maple top or something similar that will add at least one if not two extra pieces of wood. If you look at the back of the guitar at an angle in the light, you can sometimes tell where the seams are--at least if the guitar has a glossy finish.

And, as Tung said, it is solid as opposed to being a hollow body or made of plywood.

Remember those photoflame guitars that Fender made a few years ago? They laminated a "picture" of a solid piece of wood on top of a body made of several laminated pieces. They looked cool, but got discontinued after guitar players figured it out.

tung

[Bloozcat]

I've actually heard people argue that a one piece body is not as strong and as a two (or more) piece body. The claim is, a one piece body would be more prone to warping than a two (or more) piece body would. I don't know that I buy into that theory. I've never heard of a properly dried and finished one piece body warping...

Getting a one piece body can dependent upon the type of wood used to an extent. Bodies made of wood like alder are usually two or more pieces because it's not common to find alder trees that are of large enough diameter to produce many one piece blanks. Not impossible, but not very common either.

Multi piece bodies are for economy, pure and simple. But, a two piece body can be selected purposely in order to match grain patterns. This is common on laminated tops where you'll see the term "book matched" in describing the top. In this process a blank of the desired thickness is split in half length-wise, and then opened up so that they grain matches in a mirror image pattern. It's really noticable with a wood like a flamed maple, but it can be very attractive with a thicker body blank in a straighter grained wood as well.

As to the tone, I've played multi-piece bodies that resonated beautifully, and I've played one and two piece bodies that were bricks. It's just the nature of wood, and the number of pieces isn't always the determining factor in tone.

Edit to add: A solid body guitar just means that it's solid throughout the thickness of the body, excepting such things as pickup and control cavities. Non solid bodies would be like the hollow jazz boxes, semi-hollow, or chambered bodies that have thin but solid tops, sides, and backs, but are hollow or semi-hollow inside. A solid alder body, would mean that the body is solid and the wood used is all alder, regardless of the number of pieces. This is why you have to be careful when you hear terms like, "solid body, solid wood construction". That could mean any kind of wood even plywood at a stretch because it's made of "solid wood" (although IMO, all that glue that holds plywood together is hardly wood).

[street music]

I remember from days in wood shop class , glueing large pieces of walnut , pine, or maple to make a large solid piece that was just amazing at how strong this bonded wood could become and how you could really feel the vibrations across it if you drilled or hammered on it, the transfer was as if it was one piece.

[just strum]

I've actually heard people argue that a one piece body is not as strong and as a two (or more) piece body. The claim is, a one piece body would be more prone to warping than a two (or more) piece body would. I don't know that I buy into that theory. I've never heard of a properly dried and finished one piece body warping...



Viewing it strictly from a woodworking standpoint, that statement is true. A two or three piece body, glued properly, with or without biscuits will be stronger than a one piece body. If the guitar was hit or had pressure applied from either the front or back until breakage, it would not break along the glue lines where it was jointed.

The same holds true for warping. Multi-piece is less apt to warp.

The breaking I base on taking wood working for a few years and actually experimenting to prove it wrong and could not. The warping I state based on a number of much better woodworkers than me.

[oldguy]

That's why cutting blocks are made from many pieces of wood glued together.
When butchers are hammering them with meat cleavers and washing them with disinfectant they won't warp or crack.

[just strum]

That's why cutting blocks are made from many pieces of wood glued together.
When butchers are hammering them with meat cleavers and washing them with disinfectant they won't warp or crack.

That's a great example.

[Brian Krashpad]

My understanding is that solid bodies are just that: made of solid wood, i.e., not plywood.

A solid body can be and usually is made of more than one piece of wood unless it is advertised as being a "one-piece" body. Even the higher end Amercan standard strats have at least two-piece bodies unless it is specifically stated that they have one-piece bodies.

This is correct.

I have a Les Paul Classic with a 2-piece back and 2-piece top. And a 1960 Duo-Sonic with a 3-piece body. My Hamer Special and '52 Tele RI might be one-piece, but I'd doubt it.

[warren0728]

the only guitar i know is one piece is my les paul special.... :greenguitar:

ww

[ZMAN]

I always considered my Les Paul Studio to be a "Solid body electric", but now they have chambered bodies. I wonder what the future description for them would be? Maybe Solid top chambered body Electric guitar?

[just strum]

Checked out my Strat and if you look from the front you would think it's one piece and even from the back it is difficult to tell. I then looked at butt end of the guitar and you can tell it's 3 pieces.

[wingsdad]

My best solid body is my G&L Comanche. I took a tip from Strum and looked up its butt end. :rotflmao: It's 2 perfectly bookmatched pieces of Swamp Ash. Easy to tell because it's a transparent finish. My other solids are paint job finishes.

Chambered bodies can be called either Semi-Hollow, if the chambers are large and run clear to the sides, like with a big honkin' sustain block in the center, or Semi-Solid (really...I had a Gibson BluesHawk that was called a Semi-Solid on its specs list), if the chambers don't run to the sides and are surrounded by some thick meat.

[Kodiak3D]

Chambered bodies can be called either Semi-Hollow, if the chambers are large and run clear to the sides, like with a big honkin' sustain block in the center, or Semi-Solid (really...I had a Gibson BluesHawk that was called a Semi-Solid on its specs list), if the chambers don't run to the sides and are surrounded by some thick meat.

Semi-solid sounds so...squishy. :poke:

[wingsdad]

Semi-solid sounds so...squishy. :poke:
Yeah, doesn't it? :whatever:

Much sexier to call it an 'Ultra'. Like Gibson's Epiphone Les Paul Ultra and new Ultra II. But those are priced for 'working stiffs'.

Now,Gibson being Gibson, you take a 'real' Les Paul, carve chambers into the notoriously spine-cracking hunk of mahogany, cap it with a AAAA flamed maple top, give it an MSRP over $5 Grand and call it a :master: Classic Supreme.

:confused:

I so love Gibson anymore...

[wingsdad]

This 'assessment' I made haunted me within hours after I'd made it:

....my G&L Comanche. I took a tip from Strum and looked up its butt end. :rotflmao: It's 2 perfectly bookmatched pieces of Swamp Ash. Easy to tell because it's a transparent finish.
So, I called G&L and asked. The guy was nice about it, but had to laugh. They cut all their guitars, solid or semi-hollow, from single-slab body blanks. For transparent finishes, they choose grain runs that will run 'to-center' more evenly than those for opaque finishes.

I just didn't know what a perfect piece of ash :thwap: looks like.

And as for 'semi-hollow' vs. 'semi-solid', he had an explanation for that, too, since I asked about my ASAT Semi-Hollow. The body is cut first as a solid body. Then they slice the top & bottom off, about 3/8" inch, more or less. They rout out the chambers & other cavities, then vacuum bond the top & bottom back to original positions. G&L calls this a Semi-Hollow simply "because the glass is half empty". Less than half, actually.

Rather than wander off topic into a G&L thing here, I'll put the details in its own thread when I get a chance.

[bigoldron]

Yeah, doesn't it? :whatever:

Much sexier to call it an 'Ultra'. Like Gibson's Epiphone Les Paul Ultra and new Ultra II. But those are priced for 'working stiffs'.

Now,Gibson being Gibson, you take a 'real' Les Paul, carve chambers into the notoriously spine-cracking hunk of mahogany, cap it with a AAAA flamed maple top, give it an MSRP over $5 Grand and call it a :master: Classic Supreme.

:confused:

I so love Gibson anymore...

If you think this is bad, then check this out:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-990...eed&subj=Crave

Tbe Gibson Gestapo strikes again... :messedup:

[abraxas]

Getting a one piece body can dependent upon the type of wood used to an extent. Bodies made of wood like alder are usually two or more pieces because it's not common to find alder trees that are of large enough diameter to produce many one piece blanks. Not impossible, but not very common either.


Precisely! :AOK:

Most American Fenders are 2-4 pieces of wood and MIM (depending on construction period) may by up to 7!

I also heard (from a very reliable source) about a certain American Fender Richie Sambora signature, made of no less than 11 different pieces of wood!!!



As to the tone, I've played multi-piece bodies that resonated beautifully, and I've played one and two piece bodies that were bricks. It's just the nature of wood, and the number of pieces isn't always the determining factor in tone.

Edit to add: A solid body guitar just means that it's solid throughout the thickness of the body, excepting such things as pickup and control cavities. Non solid bodies would be like the hollow jazz boxes, semi-hollow, or chambered bodies that have thin but solid tops, sides, and backs, but are hollow or semi-hollow inside. A solid alder body, would mean that the body is solid and the wood used is all alder, regardless of the number of pieces. This is why you have to be careful when you hear terms like, "solid body, solid wood construction". That could mean any kind of wood even plywood at a stretch because it's made of "solid wood" (although IMO, all that glue that holds plywood together is hardly wood).

Very nicely said!

I should add that, in my perspective, "solid" means "not made of particle board". This may seem astonishing to some of the youngsters in here :D but most of us old geeks (going into our forties at least), used to have a cheap, Asian made particle board guitar as our first electric. Mine was a Hondo, still have it in fact!

At some point then, it used to mean "made of quality wood", if that is something more than marketing mojo is something I don't really wish to elaborate.

Note: A guitar made of plywood or similar, is usually heavier than a solid wood guitar, due to all that glue inside!

[markb]

I should add that, in my perspective, "solid" means "not made of particle board". This may seem astonishing to some of the youngsters in here :D but most of us old geeks (going into our forties at least), used to have a cheap, Asian made particle board guitar as our first electric. Mine was a Hondo, still have it in fact!

At some point then, it used to mean "made of quality wood", if that is something more than marketing mojo is something I don't really wish to elaborate.

Note: A guitar made of plywood or similar, is usually heavier than a solid wood guitar, due to all that glue inside!

And that just about nails it. Manufacturers have used lots of "tricks" to make up for non availability of large enough pieces of wood. Epiphone Les Pauls are (or have been) many blocks of alder veneered with mahogany, I also suspect they used the "photoflame" technique at some point. The top on my Epi LP appeared to have no depth whatsoever. Older Japanese Les Paul copies will often have a space between the body and the top. Fender used poplar bodies veneered with ash on their "plus" range in the 90s. My strat is built this way. Even 1970s Les Pauls were of a pancake construction, i.e. two thinner slabs of mahogany one on top of the other. The rosewood telecaster has the same construction but hollowed out a bit to avoid winding up with an 11+ pound tele.

Guitar manufacturers appear to follow the semantic rules laid down by Humpty Dumpty in Alice.... "Why, it means whatever I want it to mean".

[wingsdad]

OK, so maybe this isn't off-topic, after all.

I believe G&L means it when they call a solid body a solid body.

Solid Swamp Ash body blanks stored in the G&L Factory:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/wingsdad/G%20and%20L%20Factory/t9image10.jpg

One of those blanks getting marked with a template to cut an ASAT body:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/wingsdad/G%20and%20L%20Factory/woodshop_template-body-tracing.jpg

An ASAT body getting routed:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/wingsdad/G%20and%20L%20Factory/woodshop_body-pickup-pinroute.jpg