Lesson Study Group - Hop in to discuss what you are working on.

[sunvalleylaw]

After discussing it with Just Strum, I am moving an idea I had mentioned in his "Thoughts of Lessons - Again" thread (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=5213) over here to form a "study group" thread for discussing things we are working on to share the knowledge and get input. The idea is a follows, and I close with some thoughts on things I am working on to see if it starts up anything. I hope it becomes a useful thread for some of us that are slugging it out in the trenches. :) :D :rockon: P.S. Someone who is not in lessons but is working on something that relates can hop in too.


On another note, (LOL, that one always gets me.) would any of you be interested in comparing notes (LOL!) on how you are approaching things? It seems that some of us are working on similar things, and Mark Wein is tracking the areas I am working on, so it might be useful for one of us to pick a lesson topic (song, scale, theory etc.) and state how you are approaching it in lessons and how you are practicing, and what is working and what is not. Kinda like a good old study group. CB, I bet you remember those from law school. Once I had my outlines down, some of my most productive study time. Anyhow, how 'bout it? If someone has an idea, start it off, maybe in a study group thread. If no one has an idea, I bet I can come up with one.

Streetmusic said:


I step in with a few thought since my Guitar teacher decided that pills mean more than his students, I have not found a replacement that I'm confident with.
So I have started concentrating on songs that I know from way back(age factor) so I have worked into playing a good portion of Hotel California , Yesterday, Stand By Me, Crazy and working on a few more. It has seemed to help me finally get better on rythm by working with songs that I already knew or at least very familar with, rather than songs that I never really cared about that much.
Favorite songs seem to hold my interest better and the fact that Kodiak got me work Stairway To Heaven again was great too, I know it's a much hated song but I like Zepplin stuff.

CB added when Strum asked about practice hints:

ok, part of being a study group is being Completely Honest. People cannot Trust you if they don't know where they Stand.

on weekdays, i Always have court wed and thurs, my rurals revolve on where they revolve. i get maybe two hours golden during work weeks, usu between 8 and 10 pm. my weekends are my treasure trove. that's where i actually perfect my playing.

my backing track is my savior when practicing. i first pick out the notes, and memorize the sequence. then i figure out what fingerings get me there fastest, and play with my backing track to get my timing down.

next? ;)

And I said:


Ok, sounds good. I will freeform up what I am messing around with and see if it hits with anyone. As far as practice goes, CB kicks my butt. I don't have anything better to add, other than I am focusing on figuring out how to play the chords for a song, whatever song, in different places, what is most efficient or has the sound I want, then figure out what scale notes, chord tones, etc. exist in the "box" that exists in that area, then see where I can find notes by changing up the scale shape or mode.

Example: Black Magic Woman, I am playing it with barres at the 5th fret for Dm and Am, and sliding down a position for G. So I am identifying chord tones based on those barres. Then, I see how the regular old minor pentatonic fits. My instructor built me a little chart that shows what notes in that scale sound good over the I, IV, and V chords, so I add those notes in. Now, he has another chart of notes I am working with that is intended to be used with 5th string root chords and has a different sound. I will see if I can chart it out so you can see what I mean. This shape adds in some different notes and if you stay in that mode, sounds good, and different. Next we are learning the mixolydian scale, and then I am finding a root for the key the song is in, and playing mixo from there. This is very different. Next week, we are supposed to start deconstructing some songs and use the licks used to explore the above.


This is aimed mostly at improving improvisation over chords, and using some theory and structure to get me there. The goal is to allow me to move between different places on the fretboard, and also move between modes or scales as may be appropriate, to spice up soloing.

Adding the chord tones to the pentatonic, and extending the pentatonic box up and down the fretboard is coming along fine, but using the other shapes I am not used to is taking more time to get comfortable with.

IMO, a lot of the above relates to Mark Wein's recent lessons he has shared with us. A few weeks back, it seemed like a couple of us were working in this area. Warren, was that you? Part of why I want to do this study group sharing is if I write it out and discuss it with others, I tend to own it. Also, getting at an idea from different viewpoints or sources always helps. Well anyway, that is my freeform outline of the stuff I have been working on since taking up lessons again.

So I guess my "study group" question for others is in light of the above are any of you expanding your normal pentatonic soloing, and if so how? Are you using chord tones, major scale notes, notes from other modes, the inverse of the pentatonic scale, etc. Are you finding more than one place on the fret board to play in, and how are you getting back and forth? Stuff like that.

[just strum]

Geez, you must be getting a workout from Mark Wein with all those guitar terms;)

When it comes to moving around the fretboard, I've been using Mark's clips regarding "ask a question and follow with an answer" to try to get something out of my scale knowledge. Once I do that I try to move out of the particular scale box (probably not the term to be used) and then by ear search for other notes that fit. I do this by ear to build on being able to hear sounds more clearly and determine if they fit or not. This gets me to move around the board.

[sunvalleylaw]

Heh, Heh, well I am a lawyer, and sometimes I use more tech terms the when I know the material less well. But I think you are using the term correctly, ast least for what I mean. That is how I was doing it, and I still think it is a good way. So when you are looking by ear, try this. So when you know where you want to solo, find out which Barre chords fit there, and what notes are in the chord. Then when that chord is being played, you can solo over the top using any of the notes in the barre chord. Open chords work too if you are playing down where they are. Does that make sense?

[just strum]

Heh, Heh, well I am a lawyer, and sometimes I use more tech terms the when I know the material less well. But I think you are using the term correctly, ast least for what I mean. That is how I was doing it, and I still think it is a good way. So when you are looking by ear, try this. So when you know where you want to solo, find out which Barre chords fit there, and what notes are in the chord. Then when that chord is being played, you can solo over the top using any of the notes in the barre chord. Open chords work too if you are playing down where they are. Does that make sense?

Yep, makes sense. That sounds like a good exercise. I like doing little exercises like that because it's rewarding when it comes together or maybe explains something that you didn't completely grasp when it was explained to you earlier. When I'm working with the book Fretboard Workbook, a clearer understanding comes to me. I also found that it has helped when working with my instructor.

[t_ross33]

Well I am embarking tonight on the 2nd lesson I've ever taken, so I'll get back to ya - LOL!

Penta WHO? Solo? wazzat?

[Childbride]

[blush]

i must humbly admit that i've just been focusing on jumping in and learning songs... on the side, he's been giving me exercises to learn the I, IV, V and relative minors in all the keys [i need to work more on that, i tend to slack there just to keep up] and have not done ANY scale work.

but i've only been playing just over a year, and when i look back at how far i've come since that time, i can't help but admit i'm a smidge proud of myself... [just a smidge, i have SO much work to do! :( ]

you can do Anything, if you set your mind to it, and you practice your butt off.

;) i'm one bullheaded woman, just ask my husband. :D

[t_ross33]

OK, I'm back... :D

Gonna try to learn some Reverend Billy F. Gibbons. Ah how how how :R

A little "La Grange" if you please...

Tricky little bugger... to do it properly. I've been butchering it for years so I have to unlearn everything :thwap: Plus, I have to read along with the tab and I am primarily a "learn by ear" player so yet another skill I have to gain at least some proficiency in.

I'll keep y'all posted. Off to the woodshed :rockon:

Trev

[sunvalleylaw]

Trev, that sounds like a great song to learn . . . . "a how how how how . . ." What key are you playing in, and what is your chord progression? I've never tried it. :rockon: Oh, and what's the tricky part?

CB, no blushing allowed at study group. :nono: ;) Well ok, you can blush as long as you participate anyway. My first year (I am now almost two years into it) I simply learned songs also. Nothing wrong with that. I am only now attacking the theory. But head knowledge doesn't mean I have it under the fingers. I feel that I can understand the concepts, but need to woodshed a lot more to make it work. Talking it out helps me with the understanding though.

[warren0728]

i've only had 4 lessons but have learned more than in those four lessons than in the last year of trying on my own....like i said i'm studying albert king right now and am working on "born under a bad sign". i hope to learn theory along with my immersion in blues and jazz....

i think my weekly lessons will help me understand online and other lessons more....

my instructor told me a funny story at my last lesson....he was having lunch with steve morse (after a workshop) and someone came up to steve and asked how he could break out of playing in the pentatonic box and steve (who my instructor said really didn't want to "talk shop" during lunch) simply said just add more notes!

point being...think outside the box and find notes that sound right with what you are playing!

I found that while practicing "born under a bad sign" with a backing track that when i tried to follow the tabs in my book i would get lost and confused (a normal state for me!) but when i quit looking at the tabs and just played... it worked better. Now we are working on some of the riffs in the song now that i have the main base lick and chords under control.

ww

[t_ross33]

Trev, that sounds like a great song to learn . . . . "a how how how how . . ." What key are you playing in, and what is your chord progression? I've never tried it. :rockon: Oh, and what's the tricky part?

1. Key of A
2. The chord progression is kinda A-A-A-A-C-C-C-A rinse and repeat (sorta)
3. The tricky part is getting all the up and down picking parts right along with the little noodle-y bits the Rev tosses in for flavor (flavour for my fellow Canucks ;)).
4. The other tricky part is playing this a how how how its supposed to be played and not the way I've been hearing it in my head for the last 25 years :rotflmao:

[Childbride]

:) i can teach others how to double strum once i get 'spanish eyes'...

learning guitar is so different. when i was [six? five?] my mother started me on piano lessons, and this is so weird, i remember this like yesterday, i would go to the neighborhood pool, and do swim team, and do my theory lessons, and do my sheet music, and learn my keys and stuff, and it was all so EASY... like learning to backstroke.

i was doing concerts at six, playing bach.

crud, this is HARD now. :( so much more work to make my fingers do what they are supposed to do, in the right order, in the right timing, and there are so many ways to do the same different note.

you play a 'c' on trombone, it's a dang c. there aren't 52 different ways to get there. :(

s'ok. i told a friend tonight that learning guitar was the closest thing to writing i've ever gotten to, it was like sinking into a hidden well of the human spirit, and it fulfills me every time i pick one up. it makes me Better than I Am. it makes me Sing. :D

[warren0728]

i can teach others how to double strum
no no no...one strum around here is plenty! :rotflmao:

ww :pancake:

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, CB, you're on! Then after the double strum, you can teach us the Mass in B Minor on guitar. Or at least Für Elise. ;-)

[Childbride]

how did you know? i did that for a recital. i will have to reach into the Long Long Ago, but i will find it for you. [giggle] :D [edit: fur elise]

[just strum]

I'll post my lesson update here so we can play off of it or any other fretter lessons.

We worked with Hey Joe some more, sort of putting my "stamp" on it with a little mixing up of various riffs (sort of building an extended version). I also worked on my first improv of laying a lead over Hey Joe. My instructor played the rhythm and I put down some lead. It was a lot of fun and pretty cool to move away from the structure and just put down what came to me. Some of it sounded like crap, but to my surprise I was able to get some good playing in a good portion of the exercise.

Now for my challenge that I am faced with and hopefully those taking lessons can comment and those that have proven to be accomplished players can offer tips and suggestions.

When I was playing along (playing the same chords) with the instructor I found myself off or losing the timing. I would seem to have the timing and then after time I would either fall behind or get ahead of where he was playing.

[Childbride]

When I was playing along (playing the same chords) with the instructor I found myself off or losing the timing. I would seem to have the timing and then after time I would either fall behind or get ahead of where he was playing.

there's an easy fix to this daunting problem... especially when you are learning songs that you don't have a background with.

get a recording device and record your teacher playing a backing track, singing the lyrics when he/she does it.

i do that, then play along with him during the week. i'd never be able to learn the song correctly otherwise.

i usually have him do two versions for me, one with just the individual riffs/lead/flatpicking stuff so that i can get the timing right on those, then a second where he plays the entirety of the song so after i analyze the complicated stuff, i can synthesize the entirety of how it fits together.

[edit: just my two cents, for what it's worth]

:)

[tot_Ou_tard]

When I was playing along (playing the same chords) with the instructor I found myself off or losing the timing. I would seem to have the timing and then after time I would either fall behind or get ahead of where he was playing.
Can you ask him to run a rhythm machine (eg use a Boss RC-2) so you can concentrate on the timing? After you get in the pocket with that & your instructor you will should in better shape to lock into into the timing with just your instructor's backing.

BTW, never practice without some sort of rhythm (a metronome if nothing else).

Speaking of rhythm, that is what I'm working on. I'm using this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Rhythm-Guitar-Complete-Bruce-Buckingham/dp/0793581842

It's excellent. It doesn't come with a CD however.

If you want an accompanying CD you can get the abridged version (not nearly as complete, but still good):

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Basics-Essential-Rhythms-Private/dp/0793571316/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209922908&sr=1-2

[just strum]

Tot, I looked at those, but wasn't too sure about them. I bought the Funk Guitar as recommended by Mark Wein, but still working on other books and my lessons, along family and work. I think I'm a closing in on overload right now.

I need to construct my time into being more efficient with practice, but when it gets too structured I don't feel creative or capable of getting in "the zone".

Back on subject, I will keep those books in mind when I am making my next Amazon purchase.

Speaking of Amazon, Mark when is your book going to be on Amazon? I was going to purchase it from Lulu, but the shipping was about a third of the cost of the book. I'm really anal when it comes to shipping costs and many of sales have been halted due to the cost of shipping.

[tot_Ou_tard]

Tot, I looked at those, but wasn't too sure about them. I bought the Funk Guitar as recommended by Mark Wein, but still working on other books and my lessons, along family and work. I think I'm a closing in on overload right now.
What concerned you about the books?

The Complete Guide is not for someone who wants to diddle, or wants to move quickly through a book. It is foundational stuff that repays what time you put into it. I prefer solid, basic, complete, & progressive material. I'll take my time with it & make sure I get it down. I'm in no hurry to be a rawk star, I'd rather be really comfortable with one aspect than wank around doing a lot of different things. It works for me. The only issue is having to put off melody (ie lead playing) for the time being.

Be forwarned that there is no CD with The Complete Guide.

[just strum]

What concerned you about the books?

The Complete Guide is not for someone who wants to diddle, or wants to move quickly through a book. It is foundational stuff that repays what time you put into it. I prefer solid, basic, complete, & progressive material. I'll take my time with it & make sure I get it down. I'm in no hurry to be a rawk star, I'd rather be really comfortable with one aspect than wank around doing a lot of different things. It works for me. The only issue is having to put off melody (ie lead playing) for the time being.

Be forwarned that there is no CD with The Complete Guide.

I am apprehensive of any guitar related material unless it has an endorsement (yours qualifies). I don't want to buy a "play like a pro in four weeks" or I will become an example in Robert's thread.;)

[tot_Ou_tard]

I am apprehensive of any guitar related material unless it has an endorsement (yours qualifies). I don't want to buy a "play like a pro in four weeks" or I will become an example in Robert's thread.;)
How 'bout

"Play like Poopoo in Twenty Years"

?

[just strum]

How 'bout

"Play like Poopoo in Twenty Years"

?

I read that, but the end result only took a week - see again, deceptive promotion.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I read that, but the end result only took a week - see again, deceptive promotion.
The key is to maintain that level of poopitude while ostensibly working your butt off for twenty years trying to get good.

[just strum]

The key is to maintain that level of poopitude while ostensibly working your butt off for twenty years trying to get good.

Ahh, I guess I should have read the intro.

[mark wein]

Tot, I looked at those, but wasn't too sure about them. I bought the Funk Guitar as recommended by Mark Wein, but still working on other books and my lessons, along family and work. I think I'm a closing in on overload right now.

I need to construct my time into being more efficient with practice, but when it gets too structured I don't feel creative or capable of getting in "the zone".

Back on subject, I will keep those books in mind when I am making my next Amazon purchase.

Speaking of Amazon, Mark when is your book going to be on Amazon? I was going to purchase it from Lulu, but the shipping was about a third of the cost of the book. I'm really anal when it comes to shipping costs and many of sales have been halted due to the cost of shipping.

:)

I don't know if I would work on so much stuff all at once...it can kind of be like drinking from a firehose....with my students I usually have them working in one book at a time and then try to complement that material with some songs that flesh out the book material. I think that helps them cement the lesson material better. I have had many students who have worked through tons of books and still not play that well because in the end all they were doing was just working through books, and not playing or applying the lessons to some music.

I try not to burn them out with too much stuff every week because it is supposed to be fun, although people have come into the studio asking for the "mean teacher who will make them a better player" :D

My book should be on Amazon in 6-8 weeks...I would have thought it was going to be in May and then they kicked it back to me so that I could attend to the urgent business of putting the copyright and ISBN info on a seperate page :mad:. That pushed me back about 2 weeks and I am hoping for mid June....it sounds like you don't need much more on your plate learning-wise at the moment anyway....:)

[just strum]

:)

...it can kind of be like drinking from a firehose....

there's a really good comeback to that, but I won't discuss past girlfriends with the new mod around, I hear he can play hardball if you get him upset.



My book should be on Amazon in 6-8 weeks...I would have thought it was going to be in May and then they kicked it back to me so that I could attend to the urgent business of putting the copyright and ISBN info on a seperate page :mad:. That pushed me back about 2 weeks and I am hoping for mid June....it sounds like you don't need much more on your plate learning-wise at the moment anyway....:)

But Mark, how will I ever learn to play like a pro in 4 weeks? You make a good point, I guess it's that trait of being impatient at times that tends to set in on most of us.

[mark wein]

there's a really good comeback to that, but I won't discuss past girlfriends with the new mod around, I hear he can play hardball if you get him upset.

:pancake: ?????



But Mark, how will I ever learn to play like a pro in 4 weeks? You make a good point, I guess it's that trait of being impatient at times that tends to set in on most of us.

I spend half my time counseling adult students to be patient :)

[just strum]

:pancake: ?????





Regarding girl friend? Can't answer that, I haven't been here one year and I want to get my one year guitar or badge - whatever it is they give out to recognize the 1st year of membership.

Regarding mod? http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=6928

don't let him fool ya, he's worse than the soup nazi. No forum for you, one year!!!

[mark wein]

Regarding girl friend? Can't answer that, I haven't been here one year and I want to get my one year guitar or badge - whatever it is they give out to recognize the 1st year of membership.

Regarding mod? http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=6928

don't let him fool ya, he's worse than the soup nazi. No forum for you, one year!!!

Aha!!!!

[just strum]

Hello fretters that are taking lessons (that includes working on Robert's or Mark's material), just wondering how people are progressing.

I've been getting a lot of work on scales and improvising. I'm taking a book to lessons right now called Texas Blues Guitar and slowly getting better. I found that working with the thicker pick today was beneficial.

I know the topic of "attack" has been brought up before, but I have to admit I don't have a complete understanding of it as it applies to the pick. So as part of the study group, can anyone provide some insight?

[mark wein]

I know the topic of "attack" has been brought up before, but I have to admit I don't have a complete understanding of it as it applies to the pick. So as part of the study group, can anyone provide some insight?

I think it is easier to demonstrate than to describe, but one aspect we can look at is the intensity of your pickstroke.

The first thing that might help is if you think about your speaking voice. Softy whisper a few words as if you were only wanting a person within arms reach to hear. Then speak a little louder as if you want other people in the room to hear you. Finally speak loud enough so that someone in the next room will hear you.

At each level you are pushing more air and most probably your voice is a little more resonant at each bump up in volume. What I woud like you to do is play a single note (any note will do) on your guitar as eighth notes with the metronome set pretty slow (60-80 bpm). Without adjusting your guitar or amp try playing those eighth notes at the "whisper" level. After a minute or so play hard enough that you are speaking to "other people in the room" or the medium volume. Finally play hard enough with the pick that you are playing to people in the "other room". By varying the intensity of your pick attack you are not only playing different volumes but you are also adding a more vocal quality to your playing...

[sunvalleylaw]

What I have been working on the last few months to improve my attack is first pick grip. Along with that, I have been angling my pick a bit to the strings as related to the neck to the bridge. ie, the pick is closer to the strings toward the neck than toward the bridge. From there, I can get into what Mark is talking about.

[mark wein]

What I have been working on the last few months to improve my attack is first pick grip. Along with that, I have been angling my pick a bit to the strings as related to the neck to the bridge. ie, the pick is closer to the strings toward the neck than toward the bridge. From there, I can get into what Mark is talking about.

I end up angling the pick that way, too....very little of it sticks out from my hand though.

I have a Jazz gig tomorrow and I found that if I turn the pick sideways and not use the pointy end I get a warmer and rounder sound for the style...

[sunvalleylaw]

I end up angling the pick that way, too....very little of it sticks out from my hand though.

I have a Jazz gig tomorrow and I found that if I turn the pick sideways and not use the pointy end I get a warmer and rounder sound for the style...

I greatly reduced the amount of pick sticking out also as part of that process. Really that first, and the angle second. That was all coaching from Spud, thank you very much, btw Spudley! I have tried turning the pick over some, but want to really master my main pick grip before messing with it too much. It is tempting to flop the pick around if I have that extra pick sideways between my fingers.

[mark wein]

I greatly reduced the amount of pick sticking out also as part of that process. Really that first, and the angle second. That was all coaching from Spud, thank you very much, btw Spudley! I have tried turning the pick over some, but want to really master my main pick grip before messing with it too much. It is tempting to flop the pick around if I have that extra pick sideways between my fingers.

I think most people have too much pick sticking out from between their fingers....I usually play with the pointy end of the pick sticking out but for some reason the only way to get the sound I needed was to turn it.

[just strum]

Interesting that we are coming on this at the same time. As I noted in CB's thread yesterday, I have found myself exposing less of the pick. I also use a small stubby for some playing.

This morning I was getting in some playing before lessons and started angling the pick. I was trying to eliminate the click noise of the pick hitting the strings completely flat. I angled the pick and it accomplished what I was trying to do and I realized a different tone. As Mark noted, a warmer sound.

[oldguy]

This is an excellent thread, and I've been trying to follow it on weekends when I'm home. IMHO members explaining what they're working on and why is the essential grassroots movement to learning and helping one another.
I tend to use a heavier nylon pick and hold it w/ maybe less than a third of it sticking out between my thumb and finger(s), depending on what I'm playing. I also use some hybrid picking, usually w/ my ring and pinky added in along w/ the pick.
Lately I've also been trying to use more pedal tones, or open notes used along w/ chords to add a type of "drone", I guess you'd call it, to the chord progression I'm playing. E.G.... I play an open E maj. at the 1st fret, then move up to the F#min, G#min, Amaj, but I only fret the A,D,and G strings, the rest I let ring open. This seems to work for me, as long as I notice which strings need to be muted and when, at each fret position.
One other thing I've been trying to improve on (and would value anyone else's opinion or experience with) is combining the major and relative minor notes of chords to see how they sound. Since I play (mostly) play by ear, this may be harder to explain......... but here goes.
Take an Am chord @ the 5th fret........ then use the pinky @ the 8th fret, B string, and the ring @ the 7th, small E string.......... these two notes would be the B and small E string notes in a C maj 7th chord, but added to the Am chord @ the 5th fret, it gives a lovely, perhaps haunting sound, IMO.
I'd be interested to know if any of you are using this, and what combinations you find interesting.
Another example...... fret an E minor @ the 2nd fret, on the A and D strings... then hold the B and small E @ the 3rd fret, as you would in a G maj chord. I don't know if these are major or minor chords........maybe they could be called either depending on their use...... but I like 'em.
If I weren't so darn busy at work, and gone all week, I'd try to get a video up to better explain ......... I'll bet Mark knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Anyway, nice to check in w/ you all, and I hope you keep this thread going.
The fun and games here are cool, too, but learning and helping others learn is where it's at. :beer:

[thearabianmage]

What have I been working on? Freedom. Letting go. Playing with feeling. Have you ever tried playing a single note, but playing it with all the emotion you can? That's what I'm working on. Not just the single note, though. I'm trying to apply to everything I do - from music to art to friendships to anything.

I am trying to put everything I have into whatever I do.

[just strum]

What have I been working on? Freedom. Letting go. Playing with feeling. Have you ever tried playing a single note, but playing it with all the emotion you can? That's what I'm working on. Not just the single note, though. I'm trying to apply to everything I do - from music to art to friendships to anything.

I am trying to put everything I have into whatever I do.

I don't think it could be said any better. :AOK:

[thearabianmage]

I don't think it could be said any better. :AOK:

Cheers:dude: :beer:

[oldguy]

Excellent..... invest your time and emotion into that one endeavor, and never look back........ listen to no-one else if you know where you wish to go with your journey, and you will find your destination. But always stay true to yourself, and always be honorable in all you do. You will encounter hardships and helpmates in your journey, and you will win.
And play guitar for the right reasons, for the good of all, and help your fellow man at every turn. You will know the right time and place.
Peace.

[Tim]

I will be watching this thread for material that I can learn from. Presently I have not really picked up the guitar for several weeks. I was studying the "Ultimate Scale Book" by Troy Stetina. It is one of those half size books sold by Hal Leonard. It is suppose to be a crash course of fingerings. applications and theory for guitars. I was attempting to understand the correlation between Major, Minor and Pentatonic scales and their "anchor chords". An old friend from years ago always told me the the scale lies under the chord. I still have not grasp that theory yet.

In the meanwhile I will watch for small tidbits of information from other Fret Net contributers.

[sunvalleylaw]

What have I been working on? Freedom. Letting go. Playing with feeling. Have you ever tried playing a single note, but playing it with all the emotion you can? That's what I'm working on. Not just the single note, though. I'm trying to apply to everything I do - from music to art to friendships to anything.

I am trying to put everything I have into whatever I do.

Nice tip. Thanks! I can get stuck in my head a bit when playing at times.

[thearabianmage]

Nice tip. Thanks! I can get stuck in my head a bit when playing at times.

We all can. I get distracted by how my fingers look, or how a shape looks (not sounds) as I play it, or by trying to over-complicate things. Point is, there are so many things that throw us off of the main point - we picked up the guitar to play!!!

My first guitar told me something completely profound and I've never forgotten it:

You can't work music, you can only play it

So to everyone trying to cram their head full of theory (it helps, trust me it does) - STOP - and remember why you picked up guitar to begin with.

[thearabianmage]

To Play!!! :D

[just strum]

We all can. I get distracted by how my fingers look,

For me, it's shiny objects.:D

[just strum]

I'm amazed at how much the thickness of a pick and the angle it's used have such an effect on the tone.

I noted yesterday about how I didn't like strumming with a thicker pick or at least didn't find it comfortable. Well, I was up until 3:00 AM and again this morning and through the playing and adjusting the grip I can say I am already comfortable using the thicker pick for strumming.

[sunvalleylaw]

The last week or so has been in lessons, working licks that begin and/or resolve on the "1", and last week, the "5". Learned a Tom Petty lick from "Mary Jane's Last Dance" as one involving the "1" that also involves double stop type concepts. I don't have it fluidly yet, and need to learn the rest of the song to play it in context.

Other than that, the last week or so was woodshedding (thanks Mark Wein for the term, I have adopted it) for my rainy student band gig on Sunday. We added "Black Magic Woman" and I was to play the intro solo and another solo later in the piece. The intro sets the tune I think, so I was really working on getting some feeling out of notes I could be confident in. For instance, the opening note of the intro. So I guess I was working on what Arabian is talking about. Tone's Fuzz pedal he sold me helped too. ;-)

[Robert]

I've been working on my slide chops. Learned some basic riffs and moves. I found that I like a glass slide better than the brass slide. Used to be the opposite - go figure.

[warren0728]

I've been working on my slide chops. Learned some basic riffs and moves. I found that I like a glass slide better than the brass slide. Used to be the opposite - go figure.
what tuning are you using and why? :whatever:

ww

[Robert]

I use open E, because it's the best one to use in order to fool people into thinking that you know what you are doing... :whatever: (it's not what you think it is)

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, I started tonight trying to take more formal notes after my lessons so I can remember what the heck we were working on. I have taken some before, but most are chicken scratched on the back of some sheet of music my instructor was drawing licks on or something. Here are today's notes:

LESSON NOTES

6/17/08 – play with amph and/or guitar louder (at home) so you are forced to watch pick noise and attack, play with how much tone and volume you can make before it gets sloppy and buzzy, etc. Use deeper attack when appropriate, but don't beat on it all the time. (overly deep and hard pick attack today was screwing up my rakes and some double stop type licks I have been trying to learn from Mary Jane's Last Dance).
With licks, play with counting back from downbeat at beginning of measure so that lick ends on the down beat. (We have been working on some stock phrases and licks for vocabulary that need to be woodshedded until they are just natural vocabulary) Connect with other notes and create before then, and end with lick you have selected to use so that it becomes more of a phrase.
Create a rhythm that you follow for the lick, depending on whatever you are playing on top of for backing. For example, “Come Together” use stock 5/7 lick but played in D in pre set rhythm, then vary it. Make sure rhythm and lick ends on the downbeat that starts the measure. Do it also with Sunshine of Your Love, in D. Entire first part of Sunshine is really more or less a D chord. Then G and A. Continue work on Mary Jane’s Last Dance. Get licks down.
As you think of an area you are working, listen to people who are good in that area. (Following is instructor's opinion) Vibrato, listen to Clapton or BB. You may or may not be in love with Clapton's playing, but his vibrato is of the gods. (I still maybe like BB’s better). Bends, consider listening to Gilmour, especially later stuff. Dark Side was good, but not his best effort. Gilmour has amazing bends to pitch.
Continue to work on expression with bends, slides, vibrato.
Compliment, Chip thought my playing this year at Springfest was way, way improved from last year in terms of guitar tone, expression, etc.


So those are my notes from today. I got to stay late as the shop closed as Chip did not have anything going, and we kept jamming and working on it. Very fun!

EDIT: Here is a link to some clips from Chip, my instrucgtor, but it is his bluegrass stuff. http://www.publicradioband.net/chipbooth/index.htm

[just strum]

Sounds great. The jamming after lessons had to be a great addition. I'm glad I'm not the only one that will forget what I did at lessons. There are times that I will forget a section of an exercise and I have to try to put it back together by ear/memory. It's probably a good exercise to do, but not an intended one. It's easier when I forget a song that I was working on because I have a more accurate memory of the tune or I am fortunate to have the CD.

When I get back to lessons I will have to summerize everything on paper right after the lesson. Even at home, taking notes and documenting progress is a good habit to get into and one I should become more disciplined at.

[jpfeifer]

For some reason I've been working on the chromatic scale alot, just trying to find some ways to use it to make some interesting runs with it.

I really like the way that Django Reinhardt would play the chromatic scale by sliding his finger up or down the neck and playing every single note as he passed each fret (that's really hard to do just in case you've never tried to do this). It sounds really cool if you can get that to sound smooth. I'm still working on that but it keeps me working on my right hand, which is usually the weakest link for me.

I've also been trying to be more concious of phrasing and not overplay, trying to listen to myself more when I'm playing rather than just playing an endless stream of notes.

Also working on some country-style chicken-pickin stuff.

But lately, the practice time has been really limited, so I just try to keep my chops in shape for the most part.

-- Jim

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, I haven't posted to my own thread in a while, but I find that if I do after a lesson, I remember what the heck I was working on better.

So the last few weeks have had a few areas. Some rhythm lessons, simply playing different beats to a metromome, working on right hand and keeping it moving in time with the "lowest common denominator" of the rhythm of a song, more study on the major modes, focused on G for now, and beginning work on John Mayer "Gravity" as a study piece. In the modes, the focus has been on the roots, and looking at how the G major scale walks up the low E string through the different modes. I am to focus on memorizing the Ionian (about there on that one), Phrygian and Myxolidian (have that one pretty close) for next time, and continued familiarity with the others.

This week, my work on Gravity has highlighted weaknesses in my basic techniques, how I attempt my vibrato, how locked up my thumb, and thus wrist is, how my elbow keeps getting sucked into my rib cage where I can't move effectively, stuff like that.

The studio version of Gravity is not that fancy a solo (it also works in study on the G Major scale, and the Aeolian mode in G if you want), but without solid fundamental techniques, one cannot pull it off and sound anywhere near what it should sound like.

So, I am re-dedicating to some basic warm up exercises, stretching my fingers over four frets, keeping all fingers near the fretboard rather than pulling way off, alternate picking in time, just working across the neck allowing my elbow, wrist and fingers to move so that I can fret the notes well.

Also, bending to pitch practice, and sliding to specific notes, practiced with vibrato in whatever I am doing.

I will continue to play with the two bluegrass tunes, Billy in the Low Ground, and Red Haired Boy, as they have helped improve right hand movement, timing and picking technique, along with stronger knowledge of notes in the open position.

I was assigned a SRV tune, "Tightrope" as I was interested in learning some jazzier chords that can be used in the blues, and some new chord shapes. We are using 6th and 5th string root 9th chord shapes, and two version of a m7, both 6th string root, but different fingerings. One a more traditional barre, and one that can provide relief by letting the hand take a different shape and ease up on the barreing muscles. The basic licks to the song will come next time.


Cool lesson!

[Lev]

Recently I've been trying to train my ear to pick out melodies when improvising. I found what has really helped has been working out some slow melodies by ear. For this I used Carlos Santana's slower pieces, they work great coz they're nice and melodic, you don't need to shred and you can pour a little emotion into every note.

You can easily get hold of the backing tracks with a quick google search or better still if you have a looper play the backing chords yourself. Try not to resort to looking up tabs but take each note and interval in turn and build up the meoldy. Once you have the main melody down see how it relates to your pentatonic/major/minor shapes and try to expand the melody to other areas of the fret board. Then embelish with your own style, for example replace slides with bends, hammer-ons & pull-offs with slides etc. Most importantly don't be afraid to play the wrong notes - who's gonna hear you except your family - the only way to learn what to play is to know what not to play.

I've been using the following Santana tracks with my looper pedal to practice:
Europa
Oye como va
Samba pa ti

Hope this helps!

[tot_Ou_tard]

I'm still working on electric blues fingerstyle guitar. For some reason I fell into that & liked playing with my fingers rather than a pick. I know I won't get anywhere if I jump around too much (too dang many things that I'd love to learn) so it looks like I'll be do this for a while longer.

Once I get really comfortable with that I'll add some slide/bottleneck to the mix & then...?

[Andy]

lately I've been doing alot of finger stretching exercises..IE: boring.
and doesn't sound great either.
I've also been practicing adding more R.H. fingering along with the pick, thats something I would like to get much better at.

as far as holding the pick , mine is all over the place. it depends on what I'm doing at that moment . so my pick is moving in and out and rotating as I play.I use the side and the tip. I'm not sure if this is correct but I've always done that.for pinch harmonics I use a combination of thumb and pick

I don't think there is a set rule , some great players have alot sticking out and some use just the tinest tip.
than you have the tappers like EVH that hold it between the thumb and 2nd finger leaving the index finger free. no set rules really

[ShortBuSX]

I'm still working on electric blues fingerstyle guitar. For some reason I fell into that & liked playing with my fingers rather than a pick. I know I won't get anywhere if I jump around too much (too dang many things that I'd love to learn) so it looks like I'll be do this for a while longer.

Once I get really comfortable with that I'll add some slide/bottleneck to the mix & then...?

I jump back and forth often too. I'll learn a song playing with a pick...but you know how it goes, sometimes you pick up your guitar and a pick isnt always handy, so I'll start finger picking...Im to the point where it almost feels natural.
Id say keep going back in forth, you are advancing weather you realize it or not, and I think we all need to remember that.
You just gotta learn good habits weather youre using a plec or fingerpicking...and then keep up those good habits.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I jump back and forth often too. I'll learn a song playing with a pick...but you know how it goes, sometimes you pick up your guitar and a pick isnt always handy, so I'll start finger picking...Im to the point where it almost feels natural.
Id say keep going back in forth, you are advancing weather you realize it or not, and I think we all need to remember that.
You just gotta learn good habits weather youre using a plec or fingerpicking...and then keep up those good habits.

I like the sound of the fingers on the strings. I've grown my nails on my right hand out until they just peek over the tips of my fingers.

I believe that fingerstyle (my favorite is blues) is great for those who play solo as you get a bass line as well as melody. Surprisingly, I think it is fantastic for beginners as it asks more of your dominant hand & thus balances out all that difficult work of trying to get your fretting hand to do what it is supposed to do.

I didn't plan on focusing on this style, there are plenty of other things I want to play, but each thing takes a good deal of effort & I fell into this.

I do like the sound of plucking a 3-4 string chord so that all the strings ring at the same time (comping?).


I try to play with the very tip of the finger & catch the nail just a bit as I pluck.

My nails suck so I use this:


Matte Nail Envy

http://www.opi.com/images/NailEnvy/ntt82-mattenailenvy.jpg

Same formula as Original, but
with a natural-looking matte finish.
Great for men, too!


It is a nail hardener with a matte finish so it is less noticeable. If I look like a girly freak-boy so be it. I'll suffer for my art!

[thearabianmage]

I believe that fingerstyle (my favorite is blues) is great for those who play solo as you get a bass line as well as melody. Surprisingly, I think it is fantastic for beginners as it asks more of your dominant hand & thus balances out all that difficult work of trying to get your fretting hand to do what it is supposed to do.

If I look like a girly freak-boy so be it. I'll suffer for my art!

+1 and +1

I would like to add, though, for those who like fingerpicking as I do loads of finger picking in many different styles (slap, solo, Spanish, classical, etc.)

Using nail hardeners can be beneficial, I used this stuff called Tuff Nail (look at that, 'Tuff', they are 'down' with today's youth. Keen.) but the biggest problem is that they can inadvertently make your nails more brittle. I find the best 'nail saver' is to 'learn' how to have long nails - doing the most common and everyday tasks can be a risk to nails and you'll want to learn how to avoid and work these situations. (undoing seat belts, carrying boxes, opening shampoo bottles in the shower - all of these tasks have, in some way or another, broken my right thumb nail, which is the most important nail, imo) Breaking a thumb nail is also worst because it takes the longest to grow as the speed of growth is determined by the length of the finger.

Good luck and have fun!

Joe

[tot_Ou_tard]

Joe,

My nails are already so wimpy that they just get torn up by the strings on my electric guitar. So I'm afraid that it's nail hardener for me.

I'm new at this & still haven't managed to get my thumbnail long enough to
interact with the string yet.

[StrokerAce]

cool idea for a thread.
i have a quick little question about how a chord is best fingered.
im wanting to play "Gloria" Doors version and i have a tab but im not sure about this chord. in the past ive always just ignored it and went with the easy (open D type laziness) way but im not getting any younger and some of you guys really know your stuff so id like to do it the proper way.
its an A .... is it ok to post a little pic of a tab?

anyway. its open and your fretting the D, G, and B strings at the second fret while everything else is open. ive seen this in different parts of the fretboard and would love to know how some of you handle fretting 3 adjacent strings on the same fret.
which finger(s) on which string?

[Glacies]

I'm pushing through the CAGED chord forms and how they interact with the Major Pents Scales. This is kind of grueling right now, but like everything else in guitar, it becomes very clear after a while.

Other than that picking up a new blues lick or two every week.

[sunvalleylaw]

Quick list, partly for my own benefit in remembering, of what we did this morning.

1. Follow up on flatting the third (note) over the IV chord, worked on ways of finding the third no matter what note you are on, including the B string, and also the 5th.

2. Also, worked on finding the ionian scale and fingering starting from any root on the fretboard, as a method for finding notes to play from any root. Also as way to move to various positions and modes of scale of notes being played.

3. Timing practice and review. Worked with metronome and soloing over chord progression, ending phrase on the first beat of the next measure, and playing through the first beat to conclude later in the measure. Worked on moving the phrasing toward the next measure and chord change by beginning the phrase before the start of the measure.

4. Reviewed "Gravity" chords, discussed a couple 9th and m7th chord formations for use in new song, Tightrope.

5. Went through instructor's performance pedal board, looking at layout and how he uses his set up. (Vox wah, tuner, marshall compressor, Fulltone OCD, Fulltone Drive2, Boss chorus, MXR analog delay, TC Electronics Nova Delay) chained in that order.

A bit shorthand, but that is what today was about. We spent nearly two hours doing it, and it was great.

[oldguy]

cool idea for a thread.
i have a quick little question about how a chord is best fingered.
im wanting to play "Gloria" Doors version and i have a tab but im not sure about this chord. in the past ive always just ignored it and went with the easy (open D type laziness) way but im not getting any younger and some of you guys really know your stuff so id like to do it the proper way.
its an A .... is it ok to post a little pic of a tab?

anyway. its open and your fretting the D, G, and B strings at the second fret while everything else is open. ive seen this in different parts of the fretboard and would love to know how some of you handle fretting 3 adjacent strings on the same fret.
which finger(s) on which string?

For an A chord at the 2nd fret as you describe I use my index, middle, and ring finger. Occasionally I'll arch the index finger where it doesn't quite mute the small E string and play it that way. That frees up the other fingers to add notes to the chord as you play.

[sunvalleylaw]

For an A chord at the 2nd fret as you describe I use my index, middle, and ring finger. Occasionally I'll arch the index finger where it doesn't quite mute the small E string and play it that way. That frees up the other fingers to add notes to the chord as you play.
My fingers are on the fat side and fret the same strings with two fingers. Usually the index and middle, but sometimes the middle and ring, depending on what I am doing before or after the A chord. And once in a while, I will do it like the second way Oldguy suggests and use just my index, arched a bit so It doesn't mute the high E.

[Ch0jin]

Well I'm still messing around with one and two string scales. It's totally broken me out of my box pattern rut and is now a firmly entrenched part of my practice.

I'm still only playing Pentatonic Minor scales and regular Major Scale. I keep having a crack at the blues scale as it appears in my scale book, but I just can't get it to work. The extra notes just sound off to me. It's ok though, I got a few video lessons on it from justinguitar.com that hopefully will help me get my head around it.

Also "maybe" I printed that "how to play jazz" book and I'm reading over that too (and now I have to go back and re-learn musical notation, I was taught it in year 6 when I was playing violin but haven't used it since). Worth a shot though as any Jazz book that quotes Einstein is a winner in my book (haha pun intended)

And finally, I really dig quite a few songs by a band called Alkaline Trio, a punk band from Chicago (well, not Punk in my definition, but anyway). Recently I thought I'd have a shot at learning some of their songs and started with a track called "Warbrain". It's super easy to play, I mean SUPER easy. It's like 4 power chords and a little 2 note thing and no tricky strumming patterns.

Anyway, thought I'd mention it because I know a lot of us here are in the same boat as me (beginners who just happen to have been playing for years) and it brought me a -huge- amount of satisfaction to be able to play along to a whole song, and I thought maybe it'd do the same for someone else.

[oldguy]

Recently I've gone back (yes, backwards) to practicing some of the basic rudimentary chord work. Taking a "C" chord and finding all the positions I can play it in, then learning the maj 7th, 6th, 9th, etc. forms. I then practice the relative (Am) minor, and do the same. This has helped me find voicings on the fretboard that can give a flavor to a song, and make it yours.
I also hunt out the notes in a scale that correspond to the given chord.
If I'm using a maj 7th I hunt the notes of the scale that give the maj 7th sound, and practice that on the fretboard...........
Sorry this isn't more technical, but I'm not either........:thwap:

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, more lesson notes. Been working the last coupla weeks on diminished chords, largely in relation to 50's and 60's type arrangements of Christmas carols I have been practicing to play as part of a guitar and bass choir for "guitar caroling". Today's study began with how a diminished triad was simply a change in relationship between the chord tones (you can get there by just sharping the root), and that it created a symmetrical type of chord that basically splits the 12 note scale in fourths. So the 1, the 2 and the flat 3 are three steps from one another as are the flat 3 and the flat 5 and so on.

So then we looked at how diminished chords are often used after a major chord as a passing chord tone moving on to a seventh chord. Classic example C major to C#dim to G7. The jazz guys are playing these chords primarily in one place on the fretboard, moving notes to get the changes done. Like play a C chord in the A form, sharp the C root and you have C#dim, and you are right there to play a G7. This is different from some rock and blues players that are moving linearly up and down the fret board as they chord, holding a barre E shape or whatever.

We also looked at a half diminished chord or m7flat5 which my instructor feels is generally less useful, and then the Diminished seventh which is basically the diminished triad adding a double flatted seventh, which is also a sixth. That is a useful chord.

We then looked at a couple of classic ways of fingering the chords, and how you might find places to use them. Also the "magic" chord which can be an E form full diminished fingering the 1 on the low E string, muting the A string, the 6 on the D string and the Flat 3 on the G String with an optional Flat 5 on the B string, or can be used as a seventh with a muted root on the A string with the 5 on the low E, the 3 on the D string and flat 7 on the G string.

Now I am to re-approach these Christmas songs and find at least two ways to play the chords (two voicings) using the above and learn from that exercise. Pretty cool I think!

[thearabianmage]

Now I am to re-approach these Christmas songs and find at least two ways to play the chords (two voicings) using the above and learn from that exercise. Pretty cool I think!

I hope this doesn't sound patronizing, but have you ever heard of the CAGED (or, more accurately, the EDCAG) system? It's very handy for finding different ways of playing the same chord all over the fret board. If you want me to elaborate further, just tell me, I'd be more than happy to.

[sunvalleylaw]

Not patronizing at all. I have 'Mage, (though my instructor doesn't really call it that) and have used part of that system some. After I wrote the above, I went and looked at some aspects of that method to do that very thing. But I needed to understand what diminished chords were first. If you wanted to add something, please do, as I may have missed it or not understood it the same way you are thinking about it. That is what I like about discussing these things.

[thearabianmage]

If you wanted to add something, please do, as I may have missed it or not understood it the same way you are thinking about it. That is what I like about discussing these things.

All there really is to add is the intervals between all of notes of a diminished chord in relation to the tonic and also in relation to the note before it. This is a good way of learning chords and expands one's understanding of that particular chord.

Diminished chords are chords built up of a bunch of minor 3rds. Let's take Ao:

I-A bIII-C bV-Eb bbVII-Gb

C is a m3 from A, Eb is a m3 from C, Gb is a m3 from Eb, and A is a m3 from Gb

The whole diminished scale is a bunch of minor 3rd intervals - it's the only interval in the scale - which lends to its symmetry.

Now, the intervals in relation to the tonic (root note):

A-root, C-m3, Eb-tritone, Gb-maj6

The most common use for a diminished chord is in the minor II-V-I progression that is staple in jazz.

Apart from that, I'm not too boned up on the whole diminished thing myself - we've only just started covering it in class, but term 2 will prove to be much more demanding in my knowledge of theory so maybe I can help out more then.

[sunvalleylaw]

Cool, that syncs up with what we were discussing, and reinforces the reading I did last night out of my theory book on the topic. Thanks, it helps me to reinforce things and make sure I understand. Just sorting through the "spelling" of the chords helps even. It relates to the diminished chord thing, but also helps me understand the relationships of all chords, intervals, and notes in general better.

[Glacies]

Trying to pick up a couple ACDC songs right now. Currently working on Shook me all night long. Love the whole song in guitar. Would love to be able to sing it too.

[thearabianmage]

Trying to pick up a couple ACDC songs right now. Currently working on Shook me all night long. Love the whole song in guitar. Would love to be able to sing it too.

We had to learn this song for Rhythm Section Workshop and the solo for Rock 101. It's really fun to play and not at all hard! And it's always good to learn stuff in different styles, much to learn here. Have fun!

[Glacies]

We had to learn this song for Rhythm Section Workshop and the solo for Rock 101. It's really fun to play and not at all hard! And it's always good to learn stuff in different styles, much to learn here. Have fun!

It should be so easy but I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around it. This seems to be a common theme with my learning.

[thearabianmage]

It should be so easy but I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around it. This seems to be a common theme with my learning.

As is with everyone - just remember to take it slowly at first. Note by note, section by section. Break it down into small parts and digest. Nothing is easy at first. If it is, you might not be doing something right.