The times they are a changing

[luvmyshiner]

I do quite a bit of juvenile work, and I'm always surprised by the things that I used to do routinely that would land a kid on probation now. I'm not trying to judge, or make any kind of statement, I just find it interesting.

1. Carrying a pocket knife to school. I understand why they don't allow this now, but when I was a kid, every boy carried a pocket knife.

2. Ditching class or school. When I was a kid, if you got caught, you got sent the principal's office for swats. You get caught now, you go to the Justice of the Peace. You get caught again, you go on probation.

3. Fighting. My last fight was in the 9th grade. My father fired an employee, and the next day her son showed up and beat the crap out of me. We both got suspended for three days, and I learned that I wasn't a very good fighter and should probably avoid it in the future. Get caught fighting now, your automatically charged with assault and placed on probation.

4. Smoking. We had a smoking section in High School. You were supposed to bring a letter of permission from your parents but no one did. You get caught with cigarettes now, you're charged with possession of smoking paraphernalia and placed on probation.

5. Cussing. When I was a kid if you cussed in front of teacher, they either laughed or told you to stop. Now you can actually get charged and placed on probation for terroristic threat.

Having said all that, there are things happening today that never happened in my school when I was a kid, and a lot of them scare the crap out of me.

1. Kids carrying guns to school. They have police officers and metal detectors in Waco Schools now. I can't tell you how many kids I've represented for carrying guns to school. Most of them were being bullied and were trying to protect themselves. But still, what the hell are they thinking?

2. Robbery. I represented a kid for a string of armed burglaries. He would walk up to people, pull out a gun, and rob them. He had an interesting story about how he didn't actually pull the gun out, the people saw it in his pocket and threw their wallets at him. You can imagine how well that went over.

3. Aggravated sexual assault. I don't like the sex cases and I try to avoid them. But I've ended up being Court appointed on a number of cases where teen aged kids sexually assaulted children under the age of 6. I just don't understand it.

4. Murder. Last week in Waco a 12 year boy stabbed a 14 year old boy in the heart and killed him. His mother appeared on the news and explained that the only reason he did it was because the 14 year old rebuffed his sexual advances. No offense, but WTF?????

I'm not real sure what the point of this thread is. I guess I just needed to vent a little bit.

[Spudman]

Um, you live in Texas.:o

[just strum]

The media is just catching up in the last 20 years what goes on in the schools. Guys were carrying guns in school when I went to high school. Doesn't mean it's right, but it's been happening for a lot longer than when it first started appearing in the news.

[marnold]

The common sense train left a long time ago. School boards make arbitrary rules that are unnecessarily harsh because it makes every situation black and white even if it is utterly gray. That also keeps them from being sued.

Having said that, I'd sooner be disemboweled alive than teach in the public schools. Too many parents are relying on the schools not just to teach their children but to raise them (enter breakfast programs and after-school day care). The only solution is more responsible parenting, but that'll happen en masse right about the same time Hell freezes over.

[pes_laul]

man I got suspended for two days for squirting water yet when I beat somebody up I got a half day.

[just strum]

man I got suspended for two days for squirting water yet when I beat somebody up I got a half day.

Are you the one that beat up pie?

[just strum]

(enter breakfast programs and after-school day care). The only solution is more responsible parenting, but that'll happen en masse right about the same time Hell freezes over.

I agree to a degree - however remember we are living in a double income society and for some those programs are survival. Sadly, for others it's something to take advantage of in a way that is not deserved.

[Rocket]

The only solution is more responsible parenting, but that'll happen en masse right about the same time Hell freezes over.
http://www.quoteoftheday.us/images/Hell%20frozen.jpg

[R_of_G]

The media is just catching up in the last 20 years what goes on in the schools. Guys were carrying guns in school when I went to high school. Doesn't mean it's right, but it's been happening for a lot longer than when it first started appearing in the news.

...

I agree to a degree - however remember we are living in a double income society and for some those programs are survival. Sadly, for others it's something to take advantage of in a way that is not deserved.

I agree with both of these comments by Strum. We hear about a lot more things in our 24-hour news cycle world than we ever did before, but it doesn't mean these things didn't happen before that. I think there's a lot of nostalgia for the "good old days" but things weren't as good as we'd be led to believe.

[just strum]

I agree with both of these comments by Strum. We hear about a lot more things in our 24-hour news cycle world than we ever did before, but it doesn't mean these things didn't happen before that. I think there's a lot of nostalgia for the "good old days" but things weren't as good as we'd be led to believe.


It's more wide spread and made it's way into small town USA. I again look at the media for their overreaction and sensationalism for ratings which in turn causes copycats.

[sumitomo]

Marnold you hit the nail on the head.Most parents leave it up to the schools to raise their children.Example if I went to my boss and said I'll give you two quality days of work well that wouldnt be good enough,same goes with the time we spend with our children.Sumi:D

[just strum]

Marnold you hit the nail on the head.Most parents leave it up to the schools to raise their children.Example if I went to my boss and said I'll give you two quality days of work well that wouldnt be good enough,same goes with the time we spend with our children.Sumi:D

I understand what you are saying, but I think that using the word "most" is an exaggeration.

Who started this thread anyways? Oh, that's right, that guy down in Waco again.

[sunvalleylaw]

The common sense train left a long time ago. School boards make arbitrary rules that are unnecessarily harsh because it makes every situation black and white even if it is utterly gray. That also keeps them from being sued.

Having said that, I'd sooner be disemboweled alive than teach in the public schools. Too many parents are relying on the schools not just to teach their children but to raise them (enter breakfast programs and after-school day care). The only solution is more responsible parenting, but that'll happen en masse right about the same time Hell freezes over.

Concur. Better moral conduct is reliant on the home.


The media is just catching up in the last 20 years what goes on in the schools. Guys were carrying guns in school when I went to high school. Doesn't mean it's right, but it's been happening for a lot longer than when it first started appearing in the news.

It's more wide spread and made it's way into small town USA. I again look at the media for their overreaction and sensationalism for ratings which in turn causes copycats.
Generally concur. We often look back through rose colored glasses, but I know my high school faces bigger issues than it did when I was a kid.


I agree to a degree [with Marnold's comment about responsible parenting] - however remember we are living in a double income society and for some those programs are survival. Sadly, for others it's something to take advantage of in a way that is not deserved.

Somewhat concur, though individual circumstances vary. Also, we don't "need" 50 inch wide screen HD plasma screens that make you a latte and rub your back, but many as a society have been trained to believe that we do. For some, (believe me, I know there are exceptions) choosing to pass on luxuries could mean more time and energy to spend parenting. Again, circumstances vary, but we did not "need" all the things that stimulate us today, and also serve to distract us from communicating face to face with one another.

Shiner, as a PD until a year ago or so, I did a lot of juvenile law. I agree that it is a tough deal, and I am glad I am not anymore. The answers are not easy, and are certainly not black and white. To top it off (also related to Marnold's comment about the schools above), often the school board here has declared the kid "guilty" of whatever it is and kicked him or her out of school before the court proceedings have even really got going. Therefore, the kid is often prevented from working it out with school officials because an active criminal case is proceeding in the juvenile system. Thus, the kid is cut off from a positive thing in life, namely education, and doesn't really learn anything out of it, except from our local probation officers who happen to be decent folks, and effectively the social workers in reality. Health and Welfare, and Child Protective Services and/or mental health services are about useless here. It is often a fight between which system the kid is in, juvenile criminal law or health and welfare.

[street music]

There was a a high school boy that shot and killed himself about a month ago near where I work, he had been bullied by a couple of guys and it had gotten bad. HIs parents are now sueing the school for allowing it to go on, the teachers were told by thesupt. not to say a word or comment in any way to the lawyers or they loose their job.
I remember one guy who bullied me in front of teachers for 3 years and then when I decided to take the guys head off I was taken down to the principal and they wanted to send me home. I later confronted this boy and too this day he won't come about me.
It goes on and has as long as I can remember. Kids abuse other students because of clicks, clothes, sports and just too make them look big to their friends, it's wrong. TEACHING starts at home and It shouldn't be the teachers job to train your kids how to treat others.

[luvmyshiner]

Sorry y'all, I meant this post to be more of a thoughtful, retrospective kinda thing. But as I was writing it, it sorta took on a life of it's own.

The good thing is I see a lot of valid observations, that I don't think are necessarily irreconcilable.

The other good news is, I think Spudman may have hit that nail on the head.


Um, you live in Texas.:o


:rotflmao:

[luvmyshiner]

Shiner, as a PD until a year ago or so, I did a lot of juvenile law. I agree that it is a tough deal, and I am glad I am not anymore. The answers are not easy, and are certainly not black and white. To top it off, often the school board here has declared the kid "guilty" of whatever it is and kicked him or her out of school before the court proceedings have even really got going. Therefore, the kid is often prevented from working it out with school officials because an active criminal case is proceeding in the juvenile system. Thus, the kid is cut off from a positive thing in life, namely education, and doesn't really learn anything out of it, except from our local probation officers who happen to be decent folks, and effectively the social workers in reality. Health and Welfare, and Child Protective Services and/or mental health services are about useless here. It is often a fight between which system the kid is in, juvenile criminal law or health and welfare.

Steve, I couldn't agree with you more.

[TS808]

I worked as an addictions therapist for 21 years and also managed an international psychiatric research program on childhood depression for almost 4 years. I did alot of work with adolescents, both in treatment centers and in schools. I agree, and maybe I'm just old (47) but things have changed alot since I was in high school many moons ago.

Near Pittsburgh, the biggest drug among adolescents right now is heroin. In the treatment center I worked in, more kids were coming in addicted to heroin than marijuana. That was unheard of when I was in high school.

The homicide and suicide rates among teenagers has increased approximately 300% in the last 20 years, and the top three causes of death right now among young folks are suicide, homicide, and accidents.

I remember those days too where we had a smoking area at my high school. Back then, you didn't dare mouth off to teachers either. Having worked in schools, it IS alot different these days.

There are alot of different factors that may contribute to the behaviors we see among young folks today (too many to name here), and I'm not sure that the solutions are that easy to come by these days. Sorry for my rant, but I've seen alot over the years too, between kids overdosing and winding up in detention.

[pes_laul]

Are you the one that beat up pie?
:whatever: