Modding my Fender

[marnold]

So I'm on vacation right now and kind of bored. That got me thinking about my Fender Showmaster Celtic H. It's got a single Atomic II humbucker and single volume pot. I love the way the guitar plays--even more so than my Floyd. The issue is that it's kind of a one-trick pony. The pup is high-output and rather middy which is awesome for distortion, but bad for clean. I previously added a push-pull pot to tap a coil. That does give another tonal option, but it's still a hot, middy single-coil.

I'd like to mod it somehow so that I could get things less middy and hot for cleans. I know I could just sell it and get a similar, more flexible, guitar, but I really love how this one plays. I would not want to sell it unless I was getting out of guitar playing altogether or my left hand were chopped off or something. Despite the fact that I love playing it, it's inflexibility finds me reaching for my Floyd more often.

I considered trying a Seymour Duncan P-Rails (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/progressive/prails_shpr1/). The advantage is that I'd get humbucker, P90, and rails single-coil tone in a single package. The disadvantage is that a) it would cost money (~$90 for the pup), b) I don't know if I'd like the distorted humbucker tone as much as the Atomic II, c) I'd have to alter the look of the guitar by adding an on-off-on switch to get all three options, d) the push-pull I've got in there would be useless, although I suppose I could add a pull-for-tone mod. The pole spacing is slightly different in the two pups (1.950 for the Atomic II vs. the 1.925 for the P-Rail), so I don't think that'd be a big issue.

I also considered rewiring the push-pull for either series/parallel or phase. The advantages are a) it would cost nothing other than my time, b) I'd keep everything looking stock, c) I'd keep the metal tone I love. The disadvantage is that I'm not really sure if parallel or phase mode would really accomplish what I'm looking for.

I also considered adding another switch so that I could get series, parallel, tap, and phase. The advantages are that I'd keep the original tone and add a lot of flexibility. The disadvantage is that it would alter the look of the guitar and I'm not sure it would accomplish my goal.

My questions are these:
1) Is adding an extra switch really a bit deal? I don't plan on selling the guitar ever. I'm not concerned about aesthetics that much. My guess would be that even if I would sell it I could get more than I paid since I paid $249 for it and the original retail was $899.
2) Does anybody have any experience with the P-Rail? The concept of being able to switch from humbucker to P90 to single coil is pretty appealing.
3) Would parallel or out-of-phase wiring sufficiently "scoop" the mids or lower the output of the Atomic II?
4) Do I just have too much time on my hands?

Anybody have any good clips of humbuckers in series/parallel/out of phase?

Here's a the official Duncan P-Rail video, in case you don't know what I'm talking about:
fZhJXcSVnfs

[duhvoodooman]

Quick answers to your 4 questions:

Doesn't sound like the aesthetic consideration is important for you, so it just comes down to the difficulty of doing the alteration physically. My recollection is that that guitar has no pickguard, so you'd need to be drilling wood, correct? If so, I'd guess the difficulty would be tied to how the back of the guitar & electronics cavities are configured.
Sorry, no.
Parallel coil wiring might move you in the right direction; not sure how "scooped" the tone would be, but the output would certainly be reduced. I would strongly suggest you just skip the out-of-phase stuff, unless you're looking for drastically reduced output and a very thin, nasally tone. The coils are physically so close that the phase cancellation effect is extreme. I tried this once, just for giggles, and I couldn't undo it fast enough. YMMV, but I really doubt it.
You tell me!

[ShortBuSX]

I would strongly suggest you just skip the out-of-phase stuff, unless you're looking for drastically reduced output and a very thin, nasally tone. The coils are physically so close that the phase cancellation effect is extreme. I tried this once, just for giggles, and I couldn't undo it fast enough. YMMV, but I really doubt it.


Out of phase without 2 volume controls is very intense!
My Squier HSS Strat came with the humbucker out of phase...like DVM said, I couldnt mod it quick enough to change it!
I describe it like firing up a chainsaw...too too hot sounding...when youd flip the switch and hit that, itd wake you up!

My LP is out of phase, but with the 2 volume controls its quite pleasant and sometimes even subtle.

[duhvoodooman]

Keep in mind here that Marnold's Celtic only has a single humbucker, so he's talking about the two coils within that pickup being out of phase. That's very different than one pickup being out of phase with another. Because the two coils are of essentially identical construction and physically right next to each other, the degree of phase cancellation between the two coils is extreme, and you get that very thin, nasally tone along with a big volume dropoff. Not pleasant, at least to my ears!

Now, two separate pickups being out of phase--yeah, very useful. You can do some cool things with that, and blending the two signals with separate volume controls let's you tailor the degree of phase cancellation. Peter Green got famous for accidentally wiring his LP p'ups that way! (And for being a great guitarist!)

[dan P]

You may consider a lace hot gold humbucker, their are two flavors, a 6k/6k version and a 13k/13k.. very splitable , and man do they sound good, either way you could get a nice single coil as well as a humbucker output, I was not much for lace pups at all and on a whim decided to try a set in my av57ri, which is the guitar you see ...lace hot gold singles w/13k bridge pup...I have now bought 3 sets...:)

[marnold]

DVM, my guitar has a small cavity on the back. I don't think it'd be a problem drilling a new hole and installing the switch (yeah, I know, famous last words). That is a nightmare--that I would drill a hole wrong.

dan, I thought about a dually. They also make a Hot Gold dually that is 13K/6K which would give a bunch of options. I also thought of a Red/Silver dually.

The more I think about it, I might just try rewiring the push/pull as a series/parallel switch instead of a coil cut. At least that one won't cost me anything. If that wouldn't do the trick, then I could look into other pickup options.

[dan P]

fun pondering, I have strat with a pearly gates in the bridge, its staying in there, more fun doing and enjoying the results .....IMHO

[thearabianmage]

The more I think about it, I might just try rewiring the push/pull as a series/parallel switch instead of a coil cut. At least that one won't cost me anything. If that wouldn't do the trick, then I could look into other pickup options.

I think that's a good idea, IMHO.

Although, fwiw, I remember reading that just about all humbucker's coils are wired in series (so I assume yours would be) and, from experience with different parallel and series configurations on 3 different guitars (admittedly not with the individual coils of a humbucker) I would say that with parallel wirings as opposed to series, although volume is dropped, the tone is a tad brighter. So I'm not sure if much would be done on the mid-drop side of things.

I would imagine this is exacerbated with your lack of a tone knob (but I can also imagine your guitar wailing like a banshee when it's through a good distortion! :rockon: )

I hope any of that helps and good luck with your mission!

[marnold]

Although, fwiw, I remember reading that just about all humbucker's coils are wired in series (so I assume yours would be) and, from experience with different parallel and series configurations on 3 different guitars (admittedly not with the individual coils of a humbucker) I would say that with parallel wirings as opposed to series, although volume is dropped, the tone is a tad brighter. So I'm not sure if much would be done on the mid-drop side of things.
Thanks for your input on this. A little extra brightness would probably help even if it isn't scooping the mids at all. Another advantage of parallel over coil cutting is that parallel is still hum-canceling.

[dan P]

It adds a nice beefy tone to the bridge and is not hot...that leaves a little room for the pedal...http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/thum_6198489ed93eb262c.jpg (http://www.thefret.net/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=617)

[duhvoodooman]

A little extra brightness would probably help even if it isn't scooping the mids at all. Another advantage of parallel over coil cutting is that parallel is still hum-canceling.
I've had the humbuckers in my Dot wired for both series/parallel and coil-cut, and the two sound remarkably close to my ear. Parallel is brighter, thinner and lower output than series, much like single-coil mode, but retains the benefit of noise cancellation, as you mentioned. More complicated to wire up, but worth the effort....

[marnold]

Dang it. The more I read, the more I like the idea of this P-Rails pickup. I read that the series humbucker can give a good hard rock/metal tone. I could get an on/on switch and follow their "push/pull #2" diagram to get all four tones. I think that would be easier than trying to figure out how to get an on/off/on to flip between the coils and series and then use the push-pull for series/parallel. I'm not bright enough to figure that out. Guess I'll have to play my guitar when I get home. Like I need more reasons to want to spend money I don't have.

[marnold]

Well, I got home today and said to myself, "Self, what better thing to do than bust out the soldering iron and rewire that push-pull of yours?" After a bit of soldering, a few near-profanities, and a bit of luck, my Fender now does a series/parallel switch instead of humbucker/coil cut. As far as the tone goes, it gets brighter and the output drops dramatically. I don't think the tone is that similar to the single coil tone from the coil cut. The coil cut sounded like a hot bridge single coil. The parallel sounds more like a PAF version of my humbucker. I don't really know how else to describe it. I'll try post some clips tomorrow.

After looking at the control cavity on my guitar and being reminded that it has a carved top, adding another switch would be a PITA. Not impossible, but not something I'm particularly inclined to take on. I think the PAF-ified version of my Atomic II will give me sufficient tonal flexibility to do a lot of cool things. I've already thought about things like using parallel for rhythm and punching it into series for solos. I'm inspired to play some more . . . which should be the point.

I really like that guitar . . .

[Spudman]

After a bit of soldering, a few near-profanities, and a bit of luck, my Fender now does a series/parallel switch instead of humbucker/coil cut.

That will be 4 near Hail Mary's and 5 near Our Father's for you young man.:nono: :D

What about doing two potentiometre push-pull switches? Or does the guitar only have one knob? I did my 80s Japanese Squier HH with JB and Jazz Duncans and put taps in both volume pots.

[marnold]

What about doing two potentiometre push-pull switches? Or does the guitar only have one knob? I did my 80s Japanese Squier HH with JB and Jazz Duncans and put taps in both volume pots.
My Fender looks like this:
http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM03/Content/Fender/PR/Showmaster-Celtic-H-sm.jpg
So only one pot. I looked online to see if there was such a thing as a combo pot/rotary switch or somesuch, but there isn't AFAIK.

[marnold]

OK, citizens of Planet Earth and wherever Tot and Strum are from, here are the clips. In all the clips I first play using the humbucker wired in series. I play the same thing the second time with coil cut or wired in parallel, depending on the clip. The clips with the coil cut are from April 2007 when I first added the push-pull pot. The clips with the parallel wiring were recorded today. All the clips are using my AD30VT's Tweed 4x10 preset with the effects bypassed.

Chord progression: series and coil-cut (http://www.box.net/shared/mlo27spbj1)
Chord progression: series and parallel (http://www.box.net/shared/ie6ns0jj97)
Lick: series and coil-cut (http://www.box.net/shared/m9dz446qof)
Lick: series and parallel (http://www.box.net/shared/2nl3ck6ob4)

Update!
Through the miracle of Audacity, I combined the two clips so that now the coil cut part is first followed by the parallel part. Unfortunately, my recording technique seems to have changed because the volume of the new recording is louder than the old. Thus, ignore any volume differences and focus on the timbre. The parallel mode is actually lower output than the coil cut.

Chord progression: coil-cut and parallel (http://www.box.net/shared/xq277thoch)
Lick: coil-cut and parallel (http://www.box.net/shared/e97jzm64o6)

I still don't think that the clips capture the difference I'm hearing between the coil cut and parallel modes. I'm beginning to think that the line-out on my Vox might not be the best way to record. I'm going to have to try the cabinet modeling on my Digitech pedals and see if that's any better.

To my ears the parallel wiring preserves the "humbuckeriness" while losing a lot of output and gaining a lot of brightness. The coil-cut wiring gives it the timbre of a (in this case, very hot) single coil, while losing some output. Both are useful tones. The parallel mode has the added advantage of being hum-cancelling.

With this pickup, I feel that the parallel mode is the better choice. The pickup is just too hot and overwound to give anything even vaguely resembling a vintage single-coil tone. No "chime". As I mentioned before, parallel mode gives the feel of a PAF version of the humbucker. If I had the choice, I'd like to have all three options (or perhaps all four if I would go crazy and cut either coil). Since I don't, I'm going to stick with parallel. Good thing too because the thought of undoing the wiring I did last night isn't pleasing to me :)

[duhvoodooman]

I like the tone of the parallel. A little brighter and livelier, with stronger note articulation. :AOK:

[Kazz]

I think the fair Reverend is missing the point here.....this gives you a VALID EXCUSE to buy more guitars to get the exact tone you need at a given point.

[marnold]

I think the fair Reverend is missing the point here.....this gives you a VALID EXCUSE to buy more guitars to get the exact tone you need at a given point.
Well . . . the excuse I've always had. The spare cash I have not. It's much more cost-effective to put in a half hour with a soldering iron than to buy a new guitar.