I don't get it

[Tone2TheBone]

9 year old kid banned from pitching little league because he's too good? Aren't we supposed to strive to do our best? What is this nation coming to?

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/8488564/9-year-old-barred-for-pitching-too-well?MSNHPHMA

[duhvoodooman]

I saw that, too. Incredible. Just makes you shake your head and wonder what we're coming to. I could see encouraging the kid to move up a level to play against older kids that were more on his skill level. But "banning" him?? You have got to be kidding me.... :thwap:

[Tone2TheBone]

I know. That's like telling a boxer to stop being so rough cause he's beating everyone up. I'm waiting for reality shows and political correctness to fade away.

[Katastrophe]

I'm waiting for reality shows and political correctness to fade away.

Unfortunately, I doubt it will.

My nephew played on a soccer team where no one kept score. There were no winners, or losers, and everyone went home happy, with their self esteem intact.:thwap:

When my stepdaughter went through softball, we had winners and losers, and team standings and playoffs. The competition was great and fun to watch. When the SD's team lost a game, the coach would tell them what he saw, and would work on the problems the next practice. The SD had a great time, and learned about hard work, teamwork, practicing, being a good sport, and not giving up.

Once upon a time, those were values that were important for kids to learn.

[Tone2TheBone]

Unfortunately, I doubt it will.

My nephew played on a soccer team where no one kept score. There were no winners, or losers, and everyone went home happy, with their self esteem intact.:thwap:

When my stepdaughter went through softball, we had winners and losers, and team standings and playoffs. The competition was great and fun to watch. When the SD's team lost a game, the coach would tell them what he saw, and would work on the problems the next practice. The SD had a great time, and learned about hard work, teamwork, practicing, being a good sport, and not giving up.

Once upon a time, those were values that were important for kids to learn.


You see. There's an underlying problem going on because that's what's being fed to us everyday. Don't be so good at anything and just accept the way things turn out. At the risk of raising a geezer alert kids aren't being taught the same values and ethics we were taught and that makes me worry. Something's trickling down I think.

Btw I'm not old enough to be a geezer yet I'm just sayin'. LMAO

[evenkeel]

I totally agree with the sentiment expressed by the fretters.

Kids should learn how to both win and lose with grace and dignity.

[marnold]

I read that article on ESPN. I have the sneaking suspicion that there is something else going on behind the scenes. This sounds a little too cut-and-dried.

[Bloozcat]

I heard about it on Mike and Mike In The Morning on ESPN radio today.

Personally, it makes me sick, because it's not just with sports that this is happening, it's anything that is competitive (like life??).

Without a winner and a loser, there's no incentive to work harder and become better, and there's no incentive to continue working hard to maintain the winners edge.

And it's not just about winning and losing. It's about learning one's strengths and weaknesses, and learning that a successful life isn't about being perfect, but rather about being the best you can possibly be. There will always be someone faster, stronger, smarter, better looking, richer, more popular...that's life. It's up to the adults to teach the kids how to deal with these realities, and not prop them up with phony self esteem and entitlement platitudes.

I don't know if the PC crowd are just cowards, lazy cowards, or just did too many drugs in their youth and never left their rose-colored glasses world. But what's certain is that they are doing an egregious disservice to the youth of America. Just wait until these entitlement babies apply for college in a few years. It's going to be a hard lesson for them when they find out that colleges aren't interested in their self esteem, only their SAT scores and their GPA. The employement world will be their next rude awakening. It's already surfacing now.

Funny, but I don't recall seeing anyone getting a self esteem medal at the recent Olympics. Maybe I just missed that because I was watching people competing in the game of life....:rolleyes:

[duhvoodooman]

Personally, it makes me sick, because it's not just with sports that this is happening, it's anything that is competitive (like life??).

Without a winner and a loser, there's no incentive to work harder and become better, and there's no incentive to continue working hard to maintain the winners edge.

And it's not just about winning and losing. It's about learning one's strengths and weaknesses, and learning that a successful life isn't about being perfect, but rather about being the best you can possibly be. There will always be someone faster, stronger, smarter, better looking, richer, more popular...that's life. It's up to the adults to teach the kids how to deal with these realities, and not prop them up with phony self esteem and entitlement platitudes.

I don't know if the PC crowd are just cowards, lazy cowards, or just did too many drugs in their youth and never left their rose-colored glasses world. But what's certain is that they are doing an egregious disservice to the youth of America. Just wait until these entitlement babies apply for college in a few years. It's going to be a hard lesson for them when they find out that colleges aren't interested in their self esteem, only their SAT scores and their GPA. The employement world will be their next rude awakening. It's already surfacing now.

Funny, but I don't recall seeing anyone getting a self esteem medal at the recent Olympics. Maybe I just missed that because I was watching people competing in the game of life....:rolleyes:
Right on the mark, BC! While the example that started this conversation was in sports, that's one of the few areas where achievement is still consistently recognized and lauded. You touched on the one that I find scariest--academics! The talents and achievements of our brightest kids are systematically suppressed by our public schools. Bright kids can't be grouped together in classes because it's "elitist" and would damage the fragile psyches of the less talented/hard-working students. Accelerated courses are often not offered until high school AP classes, since this would "discriminate" against students not capable of (or willing to do) the work.

Here's a perfect example of this kind lunatic fringe PC philosophy: My daughter graduated ranked 1st in her class of nearly 500. Now, proud papa stuff aside, this is an outstanding achievement, emblematic of an incredible work ethic as much as raw intellectual ability. She's smart girl, but she also worked her little butt off. In my day, such an accomplishment would have garnered her all kinds of recognition and praise. And she would have delivered the prestigious "valedictorian's address" at the HS commencement ceremony.

Well, not in her PC-conscious high school! No public recognition of her #1 class rank at all, other than a very modest award given at a special "awards night" ceremony with only the award winners and their parents present. And this along with (no lie!) about 150 other awards given that night. That's right, these "awards" are so exclusive that about 1 in 3 students gets one or another! And who gives the featured student address at commencement? A student whose pre-submitted speech is reviewed and handpicked by the administration and faculty. Let's just say, you don't get much in the way of thought-provoking content that way--doesn't get by the PC police. They did at least let all the "highest honors" kids (GPA 95 and above) sit up on the podium. But that's kind of like bringing up the entire Olympic field for the 100M dash for recognition, without knowing who won the gold!

The reason that this systematic march toward mediocrity in our schools scares me so much is that the quality of education our kids get translates directly (though not right away) to our standard of living here in the US. Any wonder why it has quite clearly peaked and is now heading downward? Had a look lately at the proportion of foreign students entering our best colleges and universities--especially in the technical fields that drive economic growth? I've told my son several times--learn Chinese. That will be your boss's native language some day. Soon. No xenophobia here at all--on the contrary, admiration. These folks understand the nature of global competition and the value of academic achievement. And unless we can turn things around pretty quickly, they'll soon leave us in the dust.

OK, down off the soapbox now....

[ShootTheGlass]

They tried a similar system here. Not sure if you have them elsewhere, but schools in Scotland (and the UK in general I think), you have school "sports days", typically towards the end of the school term. Loads of sports like sprint, hurdles,barrow race, sack race, egg and spoon race; all the stuff you wish you could still play as an adult :D

Anyway, they had the idea that kids losing was bad, so instead of gold,silver,bronze prizes, they had everyone getting badges and stuff saying "1st winner", "2nd winner", "3rd winner" ad nauseum.

Funnily enough, there was such an outcry of how ridiculous it was, they stopped it. :)


Bright kids can't be grouped together in classes because it's "elitist" and would damage the fragile psyches of the less talented/hard-working students. Accelerated courses are often not offered until high school AP classes, since this would "discriminate" against students not capable of (or willing to do) the work..

Not one to blow my own trumpet, but I was put forward to skip a year at school, but was told it wasnt allowed in the end due to the reasons cited above. I ended up languishing around finding all the work far too easy, getting bored, and consequently getting in trouble.

[Tone2TheBone]

Really good examples guys keep it up. This needs to be addressed.

[Bloozcat]

Well, DVM, your daughter will soon be going through the next attempt at Orwellian indoctrination, college. But, because she's as bright as she is, and because she has committed and dedicated parents who've taught her well and will be there to look out for her interests, she'll make it through intact. Once she escapes their grasp with her morals and ethics intact, she can exact her revenge...by succeeding!

As we've discussed briefly before, there's a core group of over-achievers in our youth today. These kids are just wired to succeed from an early age, and they are supported by involved parents. The proplem for the thought police in acedemia, is that these kids are smarter than they are. The kids know how to negotiate around the PC crap, giving it lip service where they have to, but all the while keeping their eyes on the prize. I've watched as my niece has done it (one year left in her Masters program at Michigan), and I'm sure you've seen it with your daughter. It's these kids, when they become adults in the working world, who will be the hope for our future. There's going to be a very large burden placed upon their sholders, but they seem to thrive on challenges like that.

As to the masses beneath that level...I worry. There will only be so much room for Deltas and Epsilons in the Brave New World.... :messedup:

[duhvoodooman]

The proplem for the thought police in acedemia, is that these kids are smarter than they are....
LOL!! Too true!


As to the masses beneath that level...I worry. There will only be so much room for Deltas and Epsilons in the Brave New World.... :messedup:
My source of worry, too. The top 5% or so will do well, regardless. It's the fat part of the bell-shaped distribution that is losing ground due to the PC culture of mediocrity....

[peachhead]

DVM, I feel for you. I saw this story last night and it blew my mind. This is just how far we've come- instead of pushing for better achievement, we're lowering the standards so that everyone feels better.
Pffffft. Buncha crap, if y'ask me.

[sunvalleylaw]

The most important thing I learned in my educational experience, at the hands of a couple of select Jesuit brothers and lay teachers at my R. Catholic high school, and then later at law school, was critical thinking. I mean really questioning things and seeing if they hold water. I do not see that as much in education anymore, at least the pubic schools where my kids are. The focus is on getting the standardized test scores up so they can look good in a macro sense, and get grants and such. I am glad my teachers in my high school days were not constrained by the growing PC movement. It existed then, but they were not yet bound by it.

[bigoldron]

I work in the local school system and while we still acknowledge and reward achievement, the curriculum is "dumbed down". We are a "low-income" school (Title I), which means we have a large number of free and reduced lunch students. Because of this, we get large amounts of money to be spent on trying to improve the lower achievers' scores.

This is noble, BUT:
*Very little money is spent to advance or assist the top achievers. I've got 2 daughters who fit in this category and "gifted" services are lip-service. Whereas, thousands of dollars and many hours are devoted to the under achievers through after school programs, direct instruction time and other boondoggles to try to help them do better.

*The ones that are being targeted and 4th and 5th generation welfare recipients (OK, only 90% of them are) and don't give a hoot about learning anything because they know the government's gonna give them a check and food stamps. The parents get all upset when little Johnny makes bad grades or can't pass the state curriculum assessments, but does NOTHING to help/inspire/motivate their children. They don't really care what happens to their kids as long as they (the parents) are not bothered, in other words, we're running a baby sitting service. PLUS, most don't want anything done to discipline their little angels when they act out, so that further complicates the teachers' jobs. These will never amount to anything other than drug dealers or dopeheads. Many of them are "crack babies" or their parents are meth heads. Sad reflection on my community, but fairly accurate.

I'm not racist or a bigot, but I DO THINK THAT A PARENT SHOULD BE A PARENT! My god, we've got 13 year olds having babies so they can get a check! This is LUDICROUS!!! Where does it end?

I'll tell you where. At some point in the not-too-distant future, there's going to be an uprising or revolution or civil war or whatever you want to call it. The working middle class is shrinking but at the same time is being slammed with an ever increasing burden to support not only themselves, but also these rapidly increasing entitlements. Now, the illegal immigrants are getting welfare and health care benefits, so pretty soon, they'll probably stop doing all the manual labor that other groups now refuse to do, so we'll be supporting them as well. The rich will keep getting richer and finding ways to pay fewer taxes, which will further strap us.

Add to that, $4/gallon gas and rising food prices and we're kinda feeling a real pinch here.

Man, did I just write all that? Please forgive me for venting. I'll go have a cookie and sit in the corner now... :thwap:

[ShootTheGlass]

$4/gallon gas


We're now paying close to $10/gallon here :(

I agree though, I dont understand the mentality of helping less intelligent kids get up to an acceptable standard, when we should really be helping the smarter ones to really push themselves in learning.

Its a real shame tbh.

[Bloozcat]

I agree with most of your sentiment bigoldron, except this line:


The rich will keep getting richer and finding ways to pay fewer taxes, which will further strap us.


The actual percentage of the total income tax paid is shown here by income group:

For Tax Year 2006

Percentiles Ranked by AGI
AGI Threshold on Percentiles
Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1%
$388,806
39.89%

Top 5%
$153,542
60.14%

Top 10%
$108,904
70.79%

Top 25%
$64,702
86.27%

Top 50%
$31,987
97.01%

Bottom 50%
<$31,987
2.99%

Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
Source: Internal Revenue Service

So with the top 1% of income earners paying right at 40% of the total paid in income taxes, the rich aren't paying less and less. Keep in mind that the 40% figure is included in the top 5% figure, and so on down. So, if you were to look at the top 10% alone, that's over 70% of all federal income taxes paid. It's clearly the wealthy who are paying the overwhelming share of federal income taxes.

[thearabianmage]

As to the masses beneath that level...I worry. There will only be so much room for Deltas and Epsilons in the Brave New World.... :messedup:

Nice reference! :AOK:

A lot of good thoughts put forward, y'all.

I'd like to say, though, in regards to the gifted not getting the attention they deserve - it's a shame, don't get me wrong, but I firmly believe that if there is a true desire, the bright ones will succeed whether they get the extra attention or not.

For example, there are kids I know who are too bright for their class, so they will do whatever work is required of them as quickly (but always accurately) as possible and afterwards carry on doing what really interests/stimulates them (draw, read, etc.) - in general, teachers here have no control over their class so as long as a student has done their work, they are happy and can worry about the other student writing rude things on the desk or whatever.

But I guess it also depends on how much self-motivation they have, which can also be affected by outside factors (bullying, mood, etc.)

A small point, but my 2 cents none-the-less.