Walked out tonight

[Spudman]

I turned off my amp and put my gear away and walked out of the open mic tonight.

I've become the host for this open mic to some degree because nobody else has a repertoire. I sing 95% of the material and get no help with backup vocals and the bass player can't ever remember week to week how the songs go or what key they are in, and he was given a song list with all the keys on it. He even forgets his songs, and no he doesn't drink. He also looses concentration frequently when a woman walks across the room, stares at his fingers, misses cues and doesn't pay attention. It's like he is somewhere else in his head rather than at the gig. On almost every song I have my fingers crossed that it will go all right. I shouldn't have to do that.

I got really fed up with all the excuses as to why he can't learn the material.
I told him that I'm a professional and that when you are presented with material then professionals get it learned. He was given all the songs on CD months ago. I think I've been very patient with him. He is the one booking gigs in spite of being unprepared. Not one single other member has presented any songs to do either.

I took him outside after I had my car loaded and explained to him how critical this is and gave him until next week to prove himself otherwise I won't be doing any gigs with him. We've done a few already but I feel like it's totally amateur night every time.

I look at it like this: if you are being hired and paid then that makes you a professional. Professionals have (or should have) standards that make them worth hiring and paying. The rest of the group shouldn't be forced to come down to another band members level just because they are too lazy to get their sh** together.

Sorry to rant but I just had to let you know how frustrating a band can be sometimes. I've never really dealt with this situation before because I usually work with players that are serious about what they do and rise to the occasion.

Rant over. Peace.:)

[sunvalleylaw]

I turned off my amp and put my gear away and walked out of the open mic tonight.
. . .
Rant over. Peace.:)

Sorry the situation has not gotten any better. If it was just open mics and therefore it was a fair number of amateurs showing up, I would say you would have to just deal with it if you were playing there. But, when the group is getting paying gigs, then it seems all members have to work to play in a professional way. I hope he improves, or that another member who wants to play in a band getting paid to gig shows up.

[mrmudcat]

Not an easy situation to be in:( ..................peace brother:smile-us:

[Robert]

I think you did the right thing. Nobody enjoys being in such a situation as you've been in, and we're all playing for enjoyment I think. If it's not enjoyable (due to whatever reason), then why do it?

I've quit bands with similar problems - the leader of a band I was in was a joke. She couldn't sing or bring anything of value to the band, so I gave up on that.

It's never worth to be stuck in situations like these. I would have done the same thing. If the guys can't meet the standards, it's really a waste of time and just depressing to continue.

Don't worry, there are more boats coming. You'll find some other, better players that are worth your time. Hang in there, bro.

[Jimi75]

Spud, I had the same situaton with a drummer, although he was drinking all the time. One time he even fell from his seat during the gig. If you feel that you are professional and you want to achieve something then get rid of such unprofessional musicians. Otherwise you waste your energy thinking about problems instead of being creative with the band.

Good luck and I wish you do the right thing.

[Plank_Spanker]

It's definitely frustrating when all of the effort is one sided. You did right by walking out, Spud...................but I wouldn't expect a total turnaround from this guy. I bet he's been riding coat tails for a quite a while..................

[Spudman]

It's definitely frustrating when all of the effort is one sided. You did right by walking out, Spud...................but I wouldn't expect a total turnaround from this guy. I bet he's been riding coat tails for a quite a while..................

Thanks for all the encouragement guys. I've never been to this point before because it has just never happened.

My guess is that this guy has indeed been riding coat tails. Well put. Time for me to do some tailoring.

[SuperSwede]

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/JS-5/

This one doesnt stare at women, doesnt forget songs (at least not if you keep it plugged in) and generally speaking plays better than most amateur bass players ;)

[jpfeifer]

Yes, you did the right thing.
Unfortuntately, this is the ugly side of playing in bands. You will run into musicians who don't treat it seriously even when they're getting paid to play. These are the kinds of things that force people to eventually play along with midi backup bands so that they don't have to put up with all the crap that you run into with real musicians. However, when you do find that group of players who have good attitudes and play well it's like heaven.

Good luck on your next group, sorry to hear about this current situation. Keep at it. Sometimes frustration can be a good motivator.

-- Jim

[Bloozcat]

You're known for the company you keep Spud, for better or worse...

You are professional, but the band doesn't sound like it because of this one guy. Someone looking to hire a band won't notice this distinction; he'll only remember that the band you were playing with wasn't very good.

You owe it to yourself to only play with those who are willing to put in the same effort as you. As the saying goes, a team is only as good as it's weakest link.

Hang in there Spud, you'll find someone else and things will work themselves out.

[Spudman]

As the saying goes, a team is only as good as it's weakest link.


Exactly! I said this to him 2 or more weeks ago. Another analogy: a time trial team is only as fast as the slowest rider.

[jpfeifer]

Here's a good bass player joke, if that helps :-)

Question: Two bass players are riding in a car, which one is driving?
Answer: The policeman.

-- Jim

[Spudman]

Better yet...
Did you hear about the drummer that locked his keys in the car?
He had to break a window to get the bass player out.

[jpfeifer]

Q: What's the definition of relative minor?
A: The bass player's girlfriend

O.K. I'll stop now. :-)

[Spudman]

Q: What's the definition of relative minor?
A: The bass player's girlfriend

O.K. I'll stop now. :-)

Oh that's a good one.:bravo:

We're not meaning to offend just bass players. Please insert musician of your choice into any line that says "bass player."

[Robert]

Yeah, after all we are a Guitar and Bass forum! Let's offend singers, keyboard players and drummers instead! :D

[Spudman]

Speaking of keyboardists...

The bass player calls the keyboard player earlier in the day to remind him to come to the open mic (it's our band rehearsal). Keyboardist says that he is out of town and has vehicle problems. The bass player already knew that the keyboardist was already at another rehearsal when he called him. Apparently the keyboardist thinks it is more promising to play with a group that has no bass player, sound equipment, lights, gigs or singer and the only drummer in town that has never been able to keep a gig or put a band together. Interesting eh. And the keyboardist says he's a pro. :confused: :thwap:

[Duff]

One man can't hold up the world, or even hold up a rock band. Don't regret it. At least you gave the guy a chance. That's way more than probably most professionals would have done, I'm sure you are aware of that. A really effective leader is a coach and he coaches everybody all the time, otherwise they wind up at the hot dog stand or in your case gloating in the ego trip or just being lazy.

I remember skiing at Eldorado all the time at night. The Colorado Ski Team, one of the best, practiced their every night. We would ski by them and watch them sometimes and I remember thinking; "Hey dude, these people are dressed all grungy and don't ski much better than us, pretty sloppy actually."
Later I realized that they were probably sick of practicing in the cold every night while every one else was partying, etc. Then I realized, when race day came and they were decked out in their flashy uniforms, their competitive spirit and enthusiasm and talent probably escalated by multiple powers of ten and they probally skiied like you wouldn't believe. Know what I mean. These were definitely no slouches like you might mistakenly think the were judging by their practice runs.

Now your bass player might not have the inherent talent and ability and high degree of skill attainment and knowledge of the bass lines. Those skiiers knew their fall lines, believe me. They were just tired of doing the same drills over and over and just wanted it to be over so they could have fun.

If I was in a band I'd try to have fun and do my best. My son is very cool and works really good with his bands and never argues with his bandmates about the bassline. He tries to work it out but manages to get his own homemade lines in there with no problem. Some of the other band members are squabbling about playing it this way and that way instead of listening to the dude that knows his s***. I'm proud of my son for this. They all have quite good amps and rigs now and are ready to do some paying gigs. He's
17, sings, plays keyboard, guitar, specializes in bass and has nice ones and nice amps, is a great actor that I don't even recognize as my son when he gets into his part and acts it out on stage, awesome. It's talent and the ability to work with others without getting all upset, and follow leaders.

Your dude might be in it for all the wrong reasons and not have the metaphysical element in his groove, or the ability to focus on practicing for any length of time. Probably doesn't even practice.

The other dudes obviously lack enthusiasm and a burning desire to develop new material. You might be able to influence them and bring out some latent talent and be a catalyst for bringing them into contact with that metaphysical dimension that has the great songwrites saying, "I have no idea where it came from, it just came to me," or "I owe my success to God (or whatever higher power); I could never have done it on my own," or " I wrote that sone in five minutes". There is definitely the soul part and if you don't have it your whole musical experience is going to be shallow.

Consider talking to them about making that quantum leap, unleashing powers that they might have, but then again might not have.

I have talent with drums. I can do things without thinking, complicated things and keep right on time with an inherent time clock. I love my new pro set of three full size congas. That really gets into your soul an projects your soul into vibes. Some call it "skin to skin", your hand and the Buffalo skin. The Am. Indians played Buffalo skin drums and I have no doubt at all that the skin to skin principle was a central element and purpose of them playing drums: a spiritual thing. "Soul" might be what your guys need.

I hope my amateurishness doesn't dilute too much the ideas I'm trying to convey. I know you are probably way ahead of me when it comes to these ideas, but maybe there are one or two that you can use, dude.

Best luck,

Duff

[jpfeifer]

Hi Everyone,

Hope I didn't offend any bass players here!
I was only trying to make Spudman feel better!

The truth is, I have a whole list of musician jokes, even some about us guitar players. I trade these jokes with my other musician friends.

All joking aside, there are fewer bass players out there than guitar players. The bass players that are good and easy to get along with are gigging all the time.

-- Jim

[sunvalleylaw]

In fact, I was saying to Spud that I would like to learn to play bass some, so that I can have more opportunities to play with others. A lot of times, it seems there are tons of guitarists, and no bass players. It would be some serious time before I could hope to fill the spot Spud has open, and the geography doesn't work, but I think it would be fun. I am sure there must be a bass player in your area, Spud, who if he/she knows about the opportunity would be drooling to play with you and the rest of your guys, esp. when you are pretty well tooled up and already landing gigs. I say a notice at that college in your town may be a good idea.

[Duff]

True there are few good ones. My son is 17, highly musical and specializes in the bass for last several years. Writes most of his own bass lines. Classically trained on piano for ten years.

Just to brag about my son, what father doesn't, he really knows how to get along with bandmates. I have observed him many times. When they tell him to do something different he keeps his mouth shut, doesn't say a word and tries to get it in there, or he makes up something else they like. They like him a lot. Personality is way bigger of a factor than we think.

Duff

[Brian Krashpad]

Sorry to hear that. But you did the right thing. It ain't that dang hard to write out cheats if one needs them.

For my side band I have cheats with the chord progressions. For my main band I have cheats with my lyrics, because, yes, I can actually manage to forget the lyrics to songs I've written. But if that's the case, as with you're bassist sitch, there's an easy fix. He's just being lazy, plain and simple.

http://a192.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/52/l_051250e860f1dbbcb3bc620d3c0f6f8f.jpg

I don't care if I end up getting paid $2 for a performance, dammit, I try to do my best. Good onya.

[Brian Krashpad]

In fact, I was saying to Spud that I would like to learn to play bass some, so that I can have more opportunities to play with others. A lot of times, it seems there are tons of guitarists, and no bass players.

It really does pay to learn bass as well, I've found. Or would pay if I were in it for money. You instantly become more marketable. I first started playing bass out of necessity when we had some band members quit and ended up going from a 4-piece to a three-piece. But subsequently, when I got burned out being a frontman/guitarist in the first band I led, I joined a different band as a bassist so I could just be a sideman and have fun. I really learned how to play bass in that band.

After I left that band, I've been in two bands where I joined as bassist but ended up playing lead. So it can work both ways. Besides, if I hadn't learned bass, I'd not have got to play with Bo Diddley! :D

[oldguy]

Hope it gets squared away for you, Spudman. It's very frustrating trying to get someone like that to do their job. It can be fun playing in a group, but if you're getting paid, it's still a job, and as such needs to be done by people with a certain skillset and commitment to quality.
You were right walking out...... I quit the first band I ever played in looooong ago because of the same type individual as you describe.
Hang in there, you'll find better. IMO you're far too accomplished a musician to put up with such crap anyway............ just my opinion.

[Spudman]

Well this situation finally resolved itself. I fired the bass player. It seems he wants to suck all of his life. I walked out again tonight.

It's of no use continuing to get pissed off that the poor guy can't figure out 1-4-5 or know the names of the notes on his instrument or remember how songs go or where changes are or what the changes are. It's just no use. Nothing does any good. So...I will no longer get upset with him any more. Bye Bye.

[Duff]

I heard good bass players are hard to find, but that some guitar players pick it up real fast. I mean real fast.

Duff

[ET335]

I can surely understand the headaches you have gone through Spud.

I have been there and gone through that many times and you did what you had to do,you made the right choice,and now you can get someone who can do the job right.

[Andy]

it sounds foreign to me , usually these problems are determined in rehearsals/tryouts .... not on stage.
or mabey I don't understand the situation correctly.

[Spudman]

it sounds foreign to me , usually these problems are determined in rehearsals/tryouts .... not on stage.
or mabey I don't understand the situation correctly.
Have you read the whole thread?

[Andy]

ok I re-read my bad ,for some reason I was thinking it was at the gigs that he kept screwing up.

[marnold]

I heard good bass players are hard to find, but that some guitar players pick it up real fast. I mean real fast.
Bass players in general are hard to find, much less someone who actually enjoys it. The key is finding guitarist who understands that the bass is really a different animal. The only similarities are strings tuned to EADG. For some reason guitarists seem to have a really hard time laying down a groove.

I don't know what songs you guys were playing, but a bass player of any caliber should be able to at least fake a I-IV-V without even being conscious. I know, because I sucked and I could do it.

I actually used to get ticked at some of the guitarists I played with because they usually were the band leader. I'd say, "Pick out what songs you want to play so I can learn them." Nothing ever happened. Apparently they figured because they knew those songs already that everybody else should too.

[Spudman]

Marnold
I did most everything I could to give this guy a fair chance. I gave him all the songs I do on CD and a song list with the keys. He never referred to his song list ever, couldn't remember keys, made 0 charts of his own and always had excuses why he didn't have the material learned. His bass is in a pawn shop and he's been using my 5 string for 2 months. Not one single time did he say "let's do _____ song because I worked on it and have it down."

In short it's best not to be in business with people that wont do their work.

[marnold]

I did most everything I could to give this guy a fair chance. I gave him all the songs I do on CD and a song list with the keys. He never referred to his song list ever, couldn't remember keys, made 0 charts of his own and always had excuses why he didn't have the material learned. His bass is in a pawn shop and he's been using my 5 string for 2 months. Not one single time did he say "let's do _____ song because I worked on it and have it down."
Agreed. I hope it didn't come across that I thought you were doing the same thing that guitarist had done to me. I was agreeing with you . . . in a somewhat backwards way. The "bass in the pawnshop" is a pretty good indication of his stick-tuit-iveness, or lack thereof.

I'd join you, but it's a bit of a drive from Wisconsin to Idaho. Oh yeah, I'd have to borrow an amp too :)

[ZMAN]

Hey Spud: It doesn't matter what great band you look, they all had great rythm sections. You just cannot play in a band that is out of sync. It throws everyone off. A good bass player and drummer are a must, and if they are not "together" it is a fiasco. I would not sweat the firing, and you will be amazed when you get the right guy.
Good Hunting.

[Spudman]

Thanks Zman. Ya, I'm ready to start burning rubber but it's hard when I'm suck in a Volkswagen. I'm sure you get my drift.;)

[Duff]

My son is a bass player. He studied it for a long time. Plays in bands.

His friend, however, is a superb guitar player and just got a SE PRS custom.

He plays in a band as a bass player and he learned it in like 2 or 3 weeks. Heavy head banging metal. That would help I guess, but heavy metal bands usually have outstanding bass players and drummers I have noticed. This kid is 17 and he is awesome after only touching the bass a few weeks ago. He already has outstanding stage presence and a sound that rocks. Maybe he just is a gifted dude.

I can see your point though Marnold. Guitarists get into a groove of their own, different from a drummer or bassist. I am a drummer first and picked up guitar after I retired seriously and take lessons. Recently I went back to playing bass but seriously and take lessons. It comes easy to me. I can get into the groove, probably because I have the drums playing in my head and a great sense of timing and changes and innovating within the drum beat at the right time as to make that really cool combination sound between the beat and the bass. I'm sure you know what I mean, but maybe you have not been a drummer. My friend that taught me drums for years is a pro and after I got my own kit he has actually adopted some of my innovations and beat types. You know how friends are. He would always insist that I played his drums in the right way and wouldn't let me just do my own thing until he knew I was using the right techniques. He is one of those serious muscians we have been talking about and is quite a technical drummer but a great rocker that can improvise on just about anything without rehearsing for ages.

I like this thread.

Good luck Spud. Someone with some motivation would be great for you. I have a feeling you will find a really hot one soon that wants to play, get the rush, and be part of the band.

Duffy