Soldering Iron Recommendations

[duhvoodooman]

Our resident amp-building guru, Tunghaichuan, highly recommends the following soldering iron for both pedal and amp work. You just need different tips for the small stuff vs. the bigger jobs. This is a temp.-controlled unit and gives you much more control and flexibility than the cheaper non-controlled units:



Iron: Hakko 936-12 ESD temperature controlled station

Tips: 900M-T-2.4D for amp work; 900M-T-2LD for PCB/pedal work

Tip Cleaner: Hakko 599B-02 bronze wool tip cleaner

Solder: Kester #66/34, SN63/PB37 eutectic solder; .062" for amp work, .031" for PCB/pedal work (not RoHS compliant, can't be used in California and Europe)

The only real downside to this iron is that tips are not typcially available locally and you'll need to order them online. But they last a long tme, so that's a minor point.

You can get similar irons from Weller; they cost a bit more for comparable features, but have the advantage of being widely available.

[sunvalleylaw]

So that is better than my el cheapo Radio Shack one, huh? ;-)

[tunghaichuan]

So that is better than my el cheapo Radio Shack one, huh? ;-)

Uh, yeah :D

Seriously though, the main problem with the Radio Shack irons is that they burn out tips fast due to crappy, cheapo plating on them. I've used the same two tips for my Hakko since I got it 8 years ago, and they are still going strong.

This is a case of getting what you pay for.

tung

[sunvalleylaw]

Ya, I did not know what I was doing when I got mine. It is a very inexpensive, dual wattage one. Even by RS website standards, it is cheap.

[Spudman]

Great thread. I was just thinking "what iron should I get to improve my soldering skills?" I appreciate those suggestions Voodoo.

[tunghaichuan]

Ya, I did not know what I was doing when I got mine. It is a very inexpensive, dual wattage one. Even by RS website standards, it is cheap.

No need to appologize, I started out on one of those Rat Shack irons, too :D

One thing that a temperature controlled station does is allow you to make nice, consistent joints.

If you don't want to spend the cash on a temperature controlled station, sometimes you can find a nice non-temperature controlled iron (like a high quality version of the Rat Shack iron) made by Hexacon, Weller, Unger, or American Beauty. The tips tend to last longer than RS irons, but not as long as the temp controlled irons.

tung

[tunghaichuan]

Resources for learning how to solder:

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~harris/docs/WellerSoldering.pdf

http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/solder.htm

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/7308016.pdf

http://www.robotstore.com/download/How_to_solder_1.pdf

http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm

Video tutorials:

http://tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/

Excellent, worth watching. Geared mainly to PCBs, but useful information.

tung

[Bloozcat]

The 25w Weber irons from Home Depot have the same problem...they burn tips out pretty fast. I have one and I've just compensated by having spare tips in stock.

But, as with everything else I seem to do, it's probably just a matter of time until I upgrade to a better unit...;)

[duhvoodooman]

The 25w Weber irons from Home Depot have the same problem...they burn tips out pretty fast. I have one and I've just compensated by having spare tips in stock.
Yep, my experience, too. I've had two of these and they do a nice job on small stuff, like effect pedal work:


Weller Marksman 25W Iron (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3086618)

But they go through tips like crazy. The chisel-style tips in particular seem to wear out fast--somewhere between one and two pedal projects, and they need to be replaced. So, like Bloozcat, I keep a stock of spares.

The power cord connection down in the handle seems to be a weak design, though. My first one failed because the power started flickering on and off, and now this 2nd one is starting to do the same thing. Time to go for a Hakko, methinks....

[Rocket]

These are what I've been using on my bench for last 6 years... never had a single problem with either:

http://www.mpja.com/images/15141.jpg
MPJA Model 302A, 40W Temperature controlled soldering station with digital temperature control & display, grounded tip, ceramic heater and comfort grip handle. Easy off connector for easy replacement oh handle/heater. Adjustable Temperature range: 200 deg. "C" to 480 deg. "C" (392-896 “F”). Fused line. 117 VAC.
WT: 4.7

http://www.mpja.com/images/14601.jpg
MASTECH Model HY3003
Input: 110 VAC 60Hz
Output: 0-30VDC @ 0-3A Constant Voltage or Current
Specifications/Features: Enclosed bench supply with dual LED displays for output Volts & Amps. .02% Line /.01% Load regulation, <1mV RMS ripple. Front binding posts.
CE listed.

[Bloozcat]

That Hakko must be another big Japanese conglomerate. They make a bunch of optics for a lot of big names in the industry as well. They seem to market very few under their own name, though. I do know them to produce quality stuff. I'll have to check out one of their soldering irons.

[tunghaichuan]

That Hakko must be another big Japanese conglomerate. They make a bunch of optics for a lot of big names in the industry as well. They seem to market very few under their own name, though. I do know them to produce quality stuff. I'll have to check out one of their soldering irons.

One reason that I recommend the Hakko 936 is that it is inexpensive, sturdy, and works well. There certainly are others worth considering, especially Weller's temperature controlled station. It tends to be a bit more expensive than the Hakko, but I've seen tips for Weller irons at my local electronics store. I don't have any direct experience with the Weller.

The Hakko does offer tremendous bang for the buck, especially when you can get one on sale.

tung

[just strum]

To those making recommendations - does this also apply to doing work on guitars - pups, pots, and switches?

[tunghaichuan]

To those making recommendations - does this also apply to doing work on guitars - pups, pots, and switches?

For this type of work, I use the 900M-T-2LD tip. It doesn't have as much mass as the other one, so it won't overheat your joints as fast. Still, with good soldering technique, you should be able to use either tip.

Here is another recommendation: get a pair of locking hemostats. They're like $2-$3 at army navy surplus stores. Clamp these on to whatever you're soldering to act as a heat sink.

tung

[duhvoodooman]

Here is another recommendation: get a pair of locking hemostats. They're like $2-$3 at army navy surplus stores. Clamp these on to whatever you're soldering to act as a heat sink.
Small alligator clips work pretty well, too.

[tunghaichuan]

Small alligator clips work pretty well, too.

Good point, and alligator clips are less likely to damage fragile components like hemostats can.

tung

[marnold]

FWIW, I used this DVD (http://www.terrydownsmusic.com/solder_video/soldervideo.html) to refresh my soldering skills. Well worth the $$, especially if you don't have anyone who can show you firsthand.

[Duff]

At Radio Shack a couple months ago I decided I needed to get a fourty watt iron to supplement my fifteen watt pencil type, so I picked up a RS fourty watt pencil type iron for eight dollars. I thought that was too cheap because my fifteen watt one at Wmart or somewhere similar was at least twice as much.

I was thrilled with the massive heat of the fourty watt iron and its ability to desolder big piles of solder quick, etc.

I found out why it was eight dollars about a month later maybe two months, when it failed. I took off the tip cleaned it up and noticed the electronic parts inside the tube just below the tip were completely burned out, shorted or whatever.

Close examination revealed the RS fourty watt iron to be JUNK. An attempt to return it was frowned upon with the statement that it had a thirty day warranty. I can see why.

My fifteen watt weller is many many years old and is an old standby with the original tip that I scrape off with the back side of an exacto knive and then flux and apply a thin layer of electronic type solder to it which I get from RS because solder with lead in it is hard to find anywhere else. Lead containing solder melts at a much lower temperature than the lead free type, apparantly, unless there is some type of lead free I don't know about.

Using flux when soldering in small amounts and tinning the iron first are major preparatory steps you can take to ensure outstanding solder joints.

I'm going to get a quality higher power iron. Where is a source for the good one discussed in this thread?

Thanks in advance,

Duffy

[tunghaichuan]

Duff,

I buy most of my soldering supplies here:

http://www.wassco.com/

They are priced higher than most though:

http://www.wassco.com/Products/Hakko-936-12-60W-Soldering-Station-with-Iron-Holder-(ESD-Safe)__WAS-02-126612.aspx

Just Google "Hakko 936" and you'll get a bunch of results under shopping:

http://www.google.com/products?q=hakko+936&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

Some of the stores are rated, so it give you an idea how good the service is.

There are some problems with the new lead-free solder, namely the one you mentioned: it melts at a much higher temperature than leaded solder. This makes it easier to over heat and damage componenets. Lead-free solder also can develop "whiskers" which can short to other parts of the circuit. Not good.

tung

[ET335]

Here is another nice soldering station that I use all the time and not that expensive either and the tips are easy to find and not expensive.
I got this one on sale for 119.95 a year ago.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/eddiet2/DSC00456.jpg

here is a link to the web site where I got this one.

http://www.lashen.com/vendors/CooperTools/Weller_solder_stations.asp

[just strum]

Getting ready to perform surgery on the Washburn soon, any more suggestions on irons, tips, supplies?

I am not going to become a mod nut (I remember saying I don't see the need for more than one guitar), so I want something that provides quality results, but not something that will break the bank (small bank)

Considering two already mentioned:


http://www.mpja.com/productsdirect.a...item4=15141+TL

http://www.kimcodistributing.com/sto...FQZlswodVQLC-w

[tunghaichuan]

Getting ready to perform surgery on the Washburn soon, any more suggestions on irons, tips, supplies?

I am not going to become a mod nut (I remember saying I don't see the need for more than one guitar), so I want something that provides quality results, but not something that will break the bank (small bank)

Considering two already mentioned:


http://www.mpja.com/productsdirect.a...item4=15141+TL

http://www.kimcodistributing.com/sto...FQZlswodVQLC-w

Hmm... Neither one of those links worked for me. :confused:

I get a catalog from MCM Electronics all the time. This looks like a decent iron:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/DISTRIBUTED-BY-MCM-S-3124-/21-980

and is not that much.

This Weller station might not be that bad:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/WELLER-WLC100-/21-3475

I don't know much about this brand, but it has a 1-year warranty:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/TENMA-21-7945-/21-7945

tung

[just strum]

Hmm... Neither one of those links worked for me. :confused:



try this

http://www.mpja.com/productsdirect.asp?dept=480&main=79&item1=15860+TL&item2=15845+TL&item3=15140+TL&item4=15141+TL

http://www.kimcodistributing.com/store/item.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=461&ITEM_ID=7&gclid=CMeah8r_iJcCFQRkswodjXUC9w

[tunghaichuan]

try this

http://www.mpja.com/productsdirect.asp?dept=480&main=79&item1=15860+TL&item2=15845+TL&item3=15140+TL&item4=15141+TL

http://www.kimcodistributing.com/store/item.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=461&ITEM_ID=7&gclid=CMeah8r_iJcCFQRkswodjXUC9w

I have the Hakko station, so I'm biased towards that one. The other station is half the price of the Hakko. The ZD Electronic Tools station may last as long, or it may not. It is hard to say; I have no experience with it.

I've had my Hakko station for at least 10 years, and the two replacement tips I got for it are still going strong. It may be overkill for what you want to do, so take that into account.

tung

[F_BSurfer]

Pass on the the ZD you will spend a lot of time trying to keep your tip ready to solder and they don't last long... tips are cheap pot metal

[just strum]

I found this

http://store.cs-sales.net/welowcosoirs.html

they are selling it for $8 to $20 less than some of the other sites. Read some reviews and people say they've been using theirs for 10+ years.

Any suggestions on tips?

[tunghaichuan]

I found this

http://store.cs-sales.net/welowcosoirs.html

they are selling it for $8 to $20 less than some of the other sites. Read some reviews and people say they've been using theirs for 10+ years.

Any suggestions on tips?

That station looks like a winner for light duty hobby work. :AOK:

For tips, I'd get:

http://store.cs-sales.net/wesctip2wiw.html

http://store.cs-sales.net/wesctip3wiw.html

I like the screw driver tips (also called "chisel tips") better than the conical types.

Those two should get you through most guitar soldering projects. If you think you want to start amp projects, I'd get a bit bigger tip as well:

http://store.cs-sales.net/wesctip4wiw.html

tung

[mrmudcat]

nice suggestions:D

[just strum]

a few more questions and any additional suggestions/recommendations welcome:

Solder: what size do you find is best to use for working on pups and pots?. Watching video and reading some articles it seems to run from 025 to 050, I was going to get something like 032.

Solder: 63/37 rosin is what I was planning on getting, but having problems locating the right solder - where do you buy yours and is this ok? The place where I am buying the station only has lead free.

http://wassco.com/Departments/Soldering-Materials-and-Chemicals/Solders/Wire-Solder/Solid-Core-Wire-Solder.aspx

Tweezers: I see them from a few dollars to $75, will something like this take care of the work I am doing?

http://wassco.com/Products/Tweezer--00-SA-Tweezers--Economy-Fine-Tip__WAS-03-98100.aspx

Helping hands:

http://store.cs-sales.net/hh55.html

I've settled on this station (I think)

http://store.cs-sales.net/welowcosoirs.html

[tunghaichuan]

Solder: what size do you find is best to use for working on pups and pots?. Watching video and reading some articles it seems to run from 025 to 050, I was going to get something like 032.


I use .031" for PCB and FX soldering, .062" for amps, pots, and guitar wiring. .050" would probably be okay. You don't want to glob on the solder, just enough to cover the joint.



Solder: 63/37 rosin is what I was planning on getting, but having problems locating the right solder - where do you buy yours and is this ok? The place where I am buying the station only has lead free.

http://wassco.com/Departments/Soldering-Materials-and-Chemicals/Solders/Wire-Solder/Solid-Core-Wire-Solder.aspx


You don't want solid core solder, you want rosin core. If you use solid core, you'll have to use flux in addition to the solder.

I'm not sure if this has lead in it or not:

http://wassco.com/Products/Kester-Solder--44-SN63-062-dia__WAS-IP2-01-02015.aspx

I use the leaded version. I bought a huge roll at a hamfest about 10 years ago and still have about half of it. Kester 44 used to have lead in it, but I'm not sure about now.



Tweezers: I see them from a few dollars to $75, will something like this take care of the work I am doing?

http://wassco.com/Products/Tweezer--00-SA-Tweezers--Economy-Fine-Tip__WAS-03-98100.aspx


I dunno, I don't use tweezers, so I can't help you here.



Helping hands:

http://store.cs-sales.net/hh55.html



Those are very useful for holding two parts so you can keep them stable while the solder solidifies.




I've settled on this station (I think)

http://store.cs-sales.net/welowcosoirs.html

Looks like a winner.

You also might want to look into wire cutters and wire strippers.

tung

[Duff]

I use regular, not large, needle nose pliers with rubber handles. Never gets hot to burn my hand like tweezers might.

Use leaded solder. I get mine at Radio Shack in about 1mm diameter, no affilliation. Radio shack carries the rosin core and you can buy it in small quantities for about five dollars.

When removing your old pup wires from the pots etc. you may encounter the problem that the solder will not melt. Repeat, the solder may not melt with your iron.

If this happens what I do is hold my low power pencil type iron on the solder for a few minutes until it finally melts, sometimes a little flus helps or rocking the side of the tip of the iron against the solder joint.

Why is this? Because the new manufacturing standards require that the big companies use the new lead free solder that melts at a higher temp. At first the assemblers in the other parts of the world didn't know how to effectively do a quality solder joint with the new hard to melt lead free solder and many problems ensued, such as cracked solder joints, especially noted on the Hot Rod Deluxe amps. I had mine resoldered by a pro tech under warranty shortly after I bought my HRDx. Very smart preventative measure. On that Kid's old Hot Rod Deluxe page which is still refered to extensively today he has pictures of burnt out PCBs because of the cracked solder joints from the early days when those assemblers didn't know how to handle the lead free solder. Ruined many an amp.

So, be patient and don't be surprised if you burn yourself with the iron. Also try not to let the hot side of the metal on the iron touch any surrounding wires or it will definitely melt the insulation off of them, I've done it. Try to move non target wires out of the way of where you are going to be working with the iron, gently of course. Remember where any wires you knock, break off came from and resolder them back in the same place.

Label wires if you need to with masking tape or something, this way you won't forget what goes where.

I sometimes even take a digital picture of the inside of the cavity with everything in place stock before I start modding. That way if I forget something I can go back to the photos and see where I may have gone wrong.

If you see a wire stripped bare about 3/4 inches long just laying against the wood under the bridge, this is normal and should remain this way. This is a common way of grounding the guitar but not a substitute for grounding your pups to the top of the pot where all the other grounds are.

It should be fun even though it sounds like a lot to it, it isn't.

We are just trying to share our past experiences with you so you are really ready for the job. I'm sure after reading all of our comments you are going to be completely prepared to do an acceptable, if not outstanding job.

When are you going to tackle the project?

Duffy

[just strum]

When are you going to tackle the project?

Duffy

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks. I will start ordering equipment/supplies tomorrow. The pups in the next couple of days.

Once I get started I may be bombing this place with questions, but I'll do that in my P90 thread. I think I may have mucked up this thread a little with my posts.:thwap:

[Duff]

No way. You didn't muck things up at all.

I have a spartan set up that works fine.

I have an old, like 30 year old weller 20 watt =+- pencil type soldering iron - like the ones on the welding stations except it is just one power and just plugs directly into the wall with no control box.

The one with the variable power would be best if you are going to continue to do this type of thing. Otherwise an inexpensive weller pencil type about 20 watts would be fine.

The Radio Shack solder is about five bucks and the can of paste flux with brush comes in really really handy for a novice and it costs probably about two dollars.

So for about fifty dollars you can have a top notch single power soldering rig with supplies with no problem. Why waste money? You might not enjoy doing mods. But then you could turn over a nice soldering rig really easy I'm sure right here on the fret.

I know quite a bit about soldering in pickups and might be able to help you just before you dive in. You can call me at 570 764 5705 any time. Sometimes you have to solder and tape off some wires you will not be using unless you are going to coil tap the pickups and get pots designed for coil tapping. This is a way bigger job than just putting in humbuckers or single coils because instead of substituting where wires go you have to dissassemble the whole pot, desolder all the wires and get them right on the new, different format pots. I have not split my coils yet because I usually just use the existing pots. Like two nights ago when I put a Fender Custom Shop Texas Special bridge pup in my '07 walnut stain Squire Standard Tele. Sounds unreal.

Duffy

[just strum]

So for about fifty dollars you can have a top notch single power soldering rig with supplies with no problem. Why waste money? You might not enjoy doing mods. But then you could turn over a nice soldering rig really easy I'm sure right here on the fret.



You have a point, this could be my first and last mod or I may only do one or two a year. If I go to another level, then I can look at a station. So if I do that, 20 watt is where I should be looking?

[Ch0jin]

I spent many years as a bench tech working on electronic goods so (for once) I have an informed opinion to share!!! Woo!!!

Sadly though, It's the same as everyone elses :thwap:

Nothing new from me, but for what it's worth, everyone in our old workshop used temp controlled Weller irons. Many of us had different preferences to favourite tips and solder even doing the same kind of work. My main rig was a dual iron Weller setup with a very thin iron for SMD/LSI work that was temp critical like the CMOS chips the old CCD camcorders used to use, and a 'normal' sized iron for 90% of my day to day needs. I also used a Hakko de-soldering station (like a soldering iron with a hollow tip and a vacuum pump). I used flux/resin cored solder exclusively. Some guys swore by the super thin stuff for fine work (working under a magnifier) but I hated it because there was bugger all flux in the core and I preferred to use thicker solder and rely on technique to avoid applying too much. Eventually as I found myself doing more and more SMD work I switched to solder paste and a specially made heat gun type of iron made specifically for this purpose.

So long story short.

- Back in the day Weller was most definitely the weapon of choice for pro's. Hakko was also regarded, but we never seemed to actually buy them.
- Thick solder is easier to use IMO as it contains more flux so is likely better for beginners. As I said though, amongst Pro's I worked with, thick/thin was a personal preference.
- Tips wise. Make them last longer by keeping your sponge wet and the crap off your tip. Probably not an issue for the casual user, but we had a beer penalty system in place for any of use who left irons turned on when we were not using them as tips burn out fast. Especially small ones. Sometimes I'd just wind the temp all the way down in between jobs though instead of turning it off.
- Temp controlled stations. I used them almost exclusively, but I definitely could have got away without one for most work. I also had a big old higher wattage iron in the drawer that I pulled out if I needed serious heat. If I were to buy another iron I doubt I'd spring for a temp controlled station just to work on amps and pedals.
- Direct powered Vs "Station" style. Whilst my current iron is a direct powered (power cable goes into the handle) Weller. I don't recommend them for anything other than very occasional work. The big fat thick power cable just gets in the way and has a habit of knocking stuff over, and off the bench. The irons that have the soft flexible cable from the base station to the iron are MUCH nicer to use and I lament the loss of mine every time I use my current one.
- Do use needle nose pliers, alligator clips or proper heat sink style clips whenever possible to stop whatever you are soldering getting too hot. When I soldered CMOS devices or Germanium Diodes/transistors I often use my fingers, not as a heat sink (although it works) but as a heat gauge. Too hot to hold means too hot for the device.
- If you buy a hand held solder sucker (a good thing to have by the way) here's a tip that may not be all that practical these days, but just in case. They all come with a slightly heat resistant plastic tip. If you use them often, the tip will melt and get clogged with solder and stuff and you'll eventually replace it. I repaired a heck of a lot of things with CRT's in them in the day and every time I replaced a HT transformer I'd cut the HT lead (the thick one with the big rubber cap) in half because the rubber (OK not rubber but some kind of silicon I guess) cap that was on the other end of the lead (where the lead goes into the transformer) is a perfect fit for the tip of a solder sucker, is highly heat resistant, and very soft and flexible so you can get some good suction happening. Because it's so soft after you've removed the solder, you can generally just twist the rubber tip between your fingers to clean out the solder thats been collected. I do not suggest trying to source your own by performing surgery on TV's left out for the rubbish man as CRT tubes contain voltages that can kill. Even if they don't kill you they hurt like a mofo if they get you, I know first hand. If know any TV repair dudes just ask them if they can score some for you.

OK thats enough for now, work beckons.

[Duff]

My hand held, cord goes from wall right into the pencil type soldering iron, is 25 watts, just checked and this is enough, with patience, to melt all the solder I've encountered, but sometimes with difficulty. My weller is very old, like 30 years and has regular phone cord cable, very flexible. Regular cable like a radio.

I bought a cheap Radio Shack piece of junk 40 watt one that lasted about 3 months before it burnt out. The 40 one would desolder things very quickly. I plan on getting a good quality 40 watt one.

Also, if you learn to do basic soldering, you will be able to fix all sorts of things around the house that break down. Usually all you need to do is resolder a shorted out wire, unplugged of course, or solder a wire back together that a dog chewed in half. I have saved a lot of money soldering wires back on terminals, back together, etc. And used quite a bit of electrical tape. And by the way, 3M electrical tape costs more but is far better to use than the cheap walmart or other cheap brands. This is something that you should pay a little more for and I've found 3M to make some good grades, they are even rated for the average temperature or temp extremes of the part you are going to use them at. Different types for very cold or hot places.

Hope this is encouraging. A quality iron is something you want. I wish I knew the brand names of some decent ones. Maybe Craftsman. Don't get the GUN type, they get in the way and melt other wire insulation.

As stated by ChOjin, maybe the quality of Weller has gone way down. My old one is a champ.

Duffy

[Ch0jin]

... And used quite a bit of electrical tape. And by the way, 3M electrical tape costs more but is far better to use than the cheap walmart or other cheap brands.

That is very true, however heat shrink is a MUCH better option. Electrical tape is for binding cables, not insulating them in my humble opinion :)


Don't get the GUN type, they get in the way and melt other wire insulation.

100% Spot on. I've never even seen one in a commercial workshop.


As stated by ChOjin, maybe the quality of Weller has gone way down. My old one is a champ.

Duffy

Umm, I didn't state that Weller quality has gone way down. Far as I know it's as good as ever, but I've been out of the repair game for at least 10 years so anything could have happened in that time.

[Duff]

Thanks ChOjin,

I'll probably buy a fourty or so watt Weller then. I like having a more powerful iron around for that new solder, know what I mean?

Have you encountered it, the lead free solder, in any of your guitars or amps?

It seems like I have but I'm no expert. Some of it takes forever to melt and some melts quickly.

Duffy

I'm playing myself to sleep right now with that avatar LP Epi with "hot rodded" Seymour Duncan pups on it thru my Delta Blues with the RP 350 in line on the SOLDLY model and drive on the amp a little tremolo and reverb, nice sound. What is SOLDLY model, Soldano or Soldano with delay? Need to check that manual.

[Ch0jin]

Have you encountered it, the lead free solder, in any of your guitars or amps?

No I don't think so. Then again all the stuff I work on is either old (pre ROHS), or made by me using "old" solder from the rolls and rolls of it I seem to have lying around still :)



I'm playing myself to sleep right now with that avatar LP Epi with "hot rodded" Seymour Duncan pups on it thru my Delta Blues with the RP 350 in line on the SOLDLY model and drive on the amp a little tremolo and reverb, nice sound. What is SOLDLY model, Soldano or Soldano with delay? Need to check that manual.

Wow, playing yourself to sleep with a Soldano patch? My POD has a Soldano SLO patch and it's a high gain harmonic rich monster!! Not exactly bed time music, in fact I find it hard to play more than a handful of notes through that patch before I'm doing pinch harmonics and other metal mania :)

[Duff]

This patch is really nice sounding at lowish volume, really rich and lots of other effects included in the factory patch to make it complex and actually very rewarding for me.

I play some really mellow things thru it to, like "Imagine", "Helpless", and songs I compose myself like one I especially like the emulates a freight train rolling accross the Great Plains at night far far away, speeding up and slowing down, and blowing the air horn for crossings. This can go from slow engine idling at the station stop, to accellerating, to flying off into the far distance. If you ever lived in the Great Plains, you can here those big old trains go on for miles at night and the space and time thing distorts the song so a little tremolo on my Delta Blues gives it that distorted space and time effect, playing gently into the fading distance. I like that railroad rythym.

I guess in some way I'm like the guy in Chuck Berry's, "Johhny B. Good", but not a star. Just a fantasy star.

Sometimes the reality of things is the opposite of what you think it is, kind of like playing that model late a night to help me relax. It's not like I'm shredding. I'm not a shredder. I'm a rock a roller and bluesman. Probably an intermediate level player but I practice every day and use all my guitars and most of my amps regularly.

Just bought my old Marshall Valvestate VS30R back today from the kid I sold it to for the same price, 75 dollars, super mint condition, probably nicer than some floor models and this amp is probably at least 20 years old dude.

You might be able to help me ChOjin. It sounds pretty awesome with the Celestion G10C speaker in it but the speaker is old and you don't get a lot of note distinction in chords, etc. I want to put an new quality speaker in it and am thinking of a Eminence Ragin' Cajun or something not as expensive as a Celestion, but with incredible sound for a Marshall totally solid state amp. No preamp tube in this model.

I want to wind up with a nice smooth sweet tone with plenty of sparkling cleans on the clean channel and a nice smooth, not raggeddy distortion on the drive channel. Like get something with a big magnet because I believe more mass produces a better sound, like in heavier amps sounding better. I'm probably wrong but there is something psychological there or maybe even metaphysical, to my ear.

So, I want to put in a nice 10 inch speaker that is very very sensitive, and not harsh at all, but sweet, chimey, and capable of sustain and a smooth distortion on the drive channel. Like to have a lot of clean headroom on the clean channel. I like Eminence speakers for the less expensive ones but am open to other ideas.

Is that "Swamp Thing" sensitive. The "Ragin' Cajun" is very sensitive and made my Fender Super Champ XD a LOT louder just going from like 95dB to like 101dB sensitivity of the speaker.'

I'm sure you know what I'm getting at dude. You are a professional and I respect that. I'm getting to be a fairly good nonpro tech though, I must say.

I am really happy that that old Marshall came back to me. I started recently, after I bought my Marshall MB30 bass practice amp, to regret selling it.

The Celestion speaker sounds muddy. Is this normal after about twenty years? Can I make it sound better? Should I check it out inside and look for puffed up capacitors or any other obvious problems? I can even resolder slight cracks in the PCB traces successfully and know how to look for cracked solder joints.

It sounds reasonably good though, I just think the speaker is worn out, not blown, just worn out and I want a crisper sound with more controlled sounds and a smooth drive sound that responds to the gain knob. This one doesn't seem to be too sensitive to turning the drive knob. Not much total range of drive apparent. Even the reverb seems to be of limitted intensity gain from zero to max. Everything works mechanically perfect and it looks brand new.

Duffy
Winfield, Pa.

Thanks in advance man. You are a very knowledgeable person, if not tuned in on all the latest and greatest technologies. There is something to be said for "tried and true". Engineers that don't know how to turn a screwdriver scare me. On the other hand some of the best mechanics I've known are engineers, they know the theory behind what they are doing and enjoy working with their hands, plotting, planning, and excuting their ideas in really interesting ways.

[ShortBuSX]

This patch is really nice sounding at lowish volume, really rich and lots of other effects included in the factory patch to make it complex and actually very rewarding for me.

I play some really mellow things thru it to, like "Imagine", "Helpless", and songs I compose myself like one I especially like the emulates a freight train rolling accross the Great Plains at night far far away, speeding up and slowing down, and blowing the air horn for crossings. This can go from slow engine idling at the station stop, to accellerating, to flying off into the far distance. If you ever lived in the Great Plains, you can here those big old trains go on for miles at night and the space and time thing distorts the song so a little tremolo on my Delta Blues gives it that distorted space and time effect, playing gently into the fading distance. I like that railroad rythym.

I guess in some way I'm like the guy in Chuck Berry's, "Johhny B. Good", but not a star. Just a fantasy star.

Sometimes the reality of things is the opposite of what you think it is, kind of like playing that model late a night to help me relax. It's not like I'm shredding. I'm not a shredder. I'm a rock a roller and bluesman. Probably an intermediate level player but I practice every day and use all my guitars and most of my amps regularly.

Just bought my old Marshall Valvestate VS30R back today from the kid I sold it to for the same price, 75 dollars, super mint condition, probably nicer than some floor models and this amp is probably at least 20 years old dude.

You might be able to help me ChOjin. It sounds pretty awesome with the Celestion G10C speaker in it but the speaker is old and you don't get a lot of note distinction in chords, etc. I want to put an new quality speaker in it and am thinking of a Eminence Ragin' Cajun or something not as expensive as a Celestion, but with incredible sound for a Marshall totally solid state amp. No preamp tube in this model.

I want to wind up with a nice smooth sweet tone with plenty of sparkling cleans on the clean channel and a nice smooth, not raggeddy distortion on the drive channel. Like get something with a big magnet because I believe more mass produces a better sound, like in heavier amps sounding better. I'm probably wrong but there is something psychological there or maybe even metaphysical, to my ear.

So, I want to put in a nice 10 inch speaker that is very very sensitive, and not harsh at all, but sweet, chimey, and capable of sustain and a smooth distortion on the drive channel. Like to have a lot of clean headroom on the clean channel. I like Eminence speakers for the less expensive ones but am open to other ideas.

Is that "Swamp Thing" sensitive. The "Ragin' Cajun" is very sensitive and made my Fender Super Champ XD a LOT louder just going from like 95dB to like 101dB sensitivity of the speaker.'

I'm sure you know what I'm getting at dude. You are a professional and I respect that. I'm getting to be a fairly good nonpro tech though, I must say.

I am really happy that that old Marshall came back to me. I started recently, after I bought my Marshall MB30 bass practice amp, to regret selling it.

The Celestion speaker sounds muddy. Is this normal after about twenty years? Can I make it sound better? Should I check it out inside and look for puffed up capacitors or any other obvious problems? I can even resolder slight cracks in the PCB traces successfully and know how to look for cracked solder joints.

It sounds reasonably good though, I just think the speaker is worn out, not blown, just worn out and I want a crisper sound with more controlled sounds and a smooth drive sound that responds to the gain knob. This one doesn't seem to be too sensitive to turning the drive knob. Not much total range of drive apparent. Even the reverb seems to be of limitted intensity gain from zero to max. Everything works mechanically perfect and it looks brand new.

Duffy
Winfield, Pa.

Thanks in advance man. You are a very knowledgeable person, if not tuned in on all the latest and greatest technologies. There is something to be said for "tried and true". Engineers that don't know how to turn a screwdriver scare me. On the other hand some of the best mechanics I've known are engineers, they know the theory behind what they are doing and enjoy working with their hands, plotting, planning, and excuting their ideas in really interesting ways.

Huh???

[Duff]

Yeah dude. The RP 350 sounds relaxing to me when I play myself to sleep. The SOLDLY model is complex and neat and I use it sometimes.

I got my old Marshall Valvestate VS30R back and am thinking of putting a new speaker in it, a sensitive one. I would like to get some ideas on what might be a good speaker for that amp.

And I developed a "train song", always a popular type of song, and it rocks and I find it really relaxing.

I also like to play "Free Bird" with that model. It sounds cool.

Chillin',

Duffy
Winfield, Pa.

Do you have any ideas for a ten inch sensitive speaker ShortBuSX?

[ShortBuSX]

Do you have any ideas for a ten inch sensitive speaker ShortBuSX?

Nope, but I bought some new tips for my soldering irons and they worked great!

My irons are so old that I didnt remember what a new tip was like...well that coupled with zero soldering skills. So as my tips aged my skills have improved...I was scared to get new tips, having learned on crappy ones(for so long).
For less than 2 bucks a tip I was soldering with much better control, I felt like a pro!
Cheap Radioshack soldering irons(30 and 40 watts) have worked great for me, I dont even have a fancy station.

What I find helps me the most is additional flux, buy a small tub of the stuff...even if your solder has flux already. I never realized how important(valuable) it was until somebody gave me some to use when working on his guitar(electronics). It makes your joint soak up the solder almost effortlessly.

[tunghaichuan]

Do you have any ideas for a ten inch sensitive speaker ShortBuSX?

I'm not ShortBuSX, but how about this one:

http://warehousespeakers.com/proddetail.php?prod=10inchguitar

SPL = 96dB/watt/meter

I've heard nothing but rave reviews for this company and its speakers and the price is right.

tung

[Duff]

Thanks Tung! Actually the stock Celestion G10C is sounding better than I ever remember. But it has this small magnet and looks cheap.

ShortBuSX,

What was the "Huhh?" about? I didn't get that one.

Also, I use flux probably too much according to some but find it very helpful. The brush on paste type.

Also, I bought a 8 dollar 40 watt iron from Radio Shack and it burnt out inside the pencil metal ventillated part after only like 3 months. I'm reluctant to try another one but liked having that 40 watter in addition to my Weller 25 watter for quick melts. I want a new 40 watt one. I have about five projects planned for the immediate future.

Thanks for the input,

Duffy

[tunghaichuan]

Duff,


Thanks Tung! Actually the stock Celestion G10C is sounding better than I ever remember. But it has this small magnet and looks cheap.

Yeah, I love those little Marshall Lead 12 amps from the 80s but the stock speaker sounds really bad. Tinny, thin, grating. Replacing it really wakes that amp up.



Also, I bought a 8 dollar 40 watt iron from Radio Shack and it burnt out inside the pencil metal ventillated part after only like 3 months. I'm reluctant to try another one but liked having that 40 watter in addition to my Weller 25 watter for quick melts. I want a new 40 watt one. I have about five projects planned for the immediate future.

Duffy

You might consider getting the station Strum was asking about:

http://store.cs-sales.net/welowcosoirs.html

Not a lot of money, and will last a lot longer than those cheap Rat Shack irons.

tung

[Duff]

Tung,

That is a nice soldering station for that price. Looks like it could do well for me.

Also,

I can't use that speaker. It is not available in 4 ohms. I will have to look around some more. The Jensen P10R is 4 ohms but is 90 dollars. I'll have to check out the ratings or check Celestion for a four ohm.

Any other four ohm speaker ideas for a thirty watt Marshall Valvestate VS30R in MINT condition for a old amp.

Duffy

[Ch0jin]

I can't help with speaker's much as I've never replaced one in a guitar amp.

The 12" Sheffield in my Peavey is pretty good. I'm sure I could get a better one if I started swapping different types in there, but I usually run that amp into my 4x12 anyway.

The speakers in the quad are 16 Ohm 12" jobs that are about 40 years old. They look like this (http://www.grouseguitars.com.au/morepics/morevasebassman.htm). That's not my rig, but I have the same box in black.

Anyway....soldering irons huh :)

[Duff]

Peavey makes really good guitars too. Too bad they don't make soldering irons.

I'm thinking of getting a Jensen Mod ten inch speaker, 39US. Might sound better than the stock Celestion I think is way worn out. Could be wrong though. It's not blown like my cheap Radio Shack 40 watt soldering iron is and it cost only 7US. Should have known.

I really like that little station Tung posted for like 39, I'm supposing US dollars.

What is the best type of tip, screwdriver - never heard of one of these - , flat, or conical for the type of soldering we do on amps and guitars?

I really like tha 5 - 40 watt range. That would serve a lot of purposes for me. I solder all sorts of things together like small appliances, speaker wires, headphone wires, radar detector cigarette lighter chewed off jacks, chewed in two extension cords, etc.

My just turned 6 new Newfoundland dog was a professional in a 200 foot long run with three females. Never had a puppyhood. So now he is experiencing his puppyhood at 6, it is really amusing, but he is really smart and mature and gets with the program way quicker than a puppy. He is soon to have his professional parts trimmed off. The paperwork is already in. Just waiting for the surgery date. Since his professional days are over, he is a house dog now and is getting domesticated, which is easy because he is the epitome of mellowness. No one would risk messing with me with him around though, if they were in their right mind. No one would want to take that chance. He weighs more than me and looks like a medium sized bear, black as coal. He is like 6 feet long tip of nose to tip of tail. When he begs for a dog biscuit it is like magnificent.

What an awesome dog and he gets along with my female black Lab that I used to think was big. She is 1/4 Blackmar's size. Should be less soldering coming up soon.

In fact, believe this: I had to solder my weller soldering iron cord back together just the other day. Had to use my propane torch. Hey, you're only a puppy once.

Duffy

[just strum]

Will this do the trick?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100494070&N=10000003+90139

[Duff]

Says this when you hit the link:

The product you are trying to view is not currently available. And there is no picture.

Duffy

[just strum]

really, works for me.

Well it's BernzOmatic Leaded Solid Wire Solder leaded 60/40 rosin core.

[Duff]

That's the type thing I use.

I'm not a great expert on specific combinations ratios are best, but I would use this type as long as it's approved for electronics work.

What is the diameter of the solder?

I like to use about 1/16 of an inch approx. maybe a little thinner. Melts fast.

Get some paste flux and a brush and clean the places you are going to solder with the tip of an exacto knife or something to get any surface grease off and rough it up ever so slightly so the solder sticks better.

Bro finally got to me. I thought it was a good thread. Probably ended now, at least for me.

Duffy

[Swampy]

Have you heard of this one?
http://www.shop.cmlsupply.com/product.sc;jsessionid=A00C868DC5746188B969FB0C0FBC 935F.qscstrfrnt03?productId=7

[Bloozcat]

Have you heard of this one?
http://www.shop.cmlsupply.com/product.sc;jsessionid=A00C868DC5746188B969FB0C0FBC 935F.qscstrfrnt03?productId=7

Don't know about this one first hand, but here's a review of one of their more capable/higher priced units:
http://hackaday.com/2009/02/20/tools-aoyue-968-3-in-1-soldering-and-rework-station/

Aoyue is a Chinese made unit (what isn't made in China anymore?) that apparently closely mimics some of Hakko's models. From the gist of the above review, it sounds like Aoyue makes a good bang-for-the-buck soldering station for DIY'ers.

[Bloozcat]

For the DIY hobbyist on a very tight budget, this just might be the ticket:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=374-100&utm_source=Retail&utm_medium=Email_Newsletter&utm_content=Stahl+STSS+Variable+Soldering+Station+ 051409&utm_campaign=email051409

For the cost of a plug-in 25watt iron (or less), you can get a station. At this price you could buy another one or two as back-ups.

[BrettS]

FWIW, I used this DVD (http://www.terrydownsmusic.com/solder_video/soldervideo.html) to refresh my soldering skills. Well worth the $$, especially if you don't have anyone who can show you firsthand.

I've got that DVD! Terry is just a great teacher, and that's a good production! My old soldering is just something I'm ashamed of...(nervermore)!

Thanks marnold, and o'course: Terry Downs. (No, I am not affiliated w/Terry in any way. Don't even know him.

[EARNEST]

Hi, guys. I am new here. I want to ask for some help. I want to buy more or less decent soldering station under like 50-60 euro($). I had in mind Weller WLC100 and Aoyue 937. Any suggestions, please? Thanks.
P.S. planning to build TS9 clone :D

[tunghaichuan]

Hi, guys. I am new here. I want to ask for some help. I want to buy more or less decent soldering station under like 50-60 euro($). I had in mind Weller WLC100 and Aoyue 937. Any suggestions, please? Thanks.
P.S. planning to build TS9 clone :D

The Aoyue looks similar to the Hakko 936. I'd be surprised if it weren't a direct copy. Weller is a good brand, so I don't think you could go wrong with it.

My personal favorite is the Hakko 936. I've been using mine and the same two tips for over ten years now.

tung

[EARNEST]

The Aoyue looks similar to the Hakko 936. I'd be surprised if it weren't a direct copy. Weller is a good brand, so I don't think you could go wrong with it.

My personal favorite is the Hakko 936. I've been using mine and the same two tips for over ten years now.

tung
Cheers.
I heard Weller's are quite overpriced:thwap: So not sure. I really like Hakko 936, but cannot afford that one right now...Nevertheless, if Hakko is a good investment and I won't regret it...should I buy it? I live in Europe, so not sure if that is a problem.

[tunghaichuan]

Cheers.
I heard Weller's are quite overpriced:thwap: So not sure. I really like Hakko 936, but cannot afford that one right now...Nevertheless, if Hakko is a good investment and I won't regret it...should I buy it? I live in Europe, so not sure if that is a problem.

I really hate to tell other people what to do with their money, but keep in mind that Weller is a premium brand and they charge what the market will bear for their irons.

Weller makes a similar iron to the Hakko, but it is slightly more. Either would be a good investment. I'm not sure how the tip situation is in Europe, but Hakko tips are harder to come by here in the States. Weller is an American product, so tips are easy to find locally in electronic stores. Since Hakko is Japanese, it may actually be easier to find tips than for Weller in Europe. That is one thing you probably should research.

If you're only planning to do one project, an inexpensive iron will do. But if you get bitten by the DIY bug, a Weller or Hakko is a great investment.

tung

[EARNEST]

I really hate to tell other people what to do with their money, but keep in mind that Weller is a premium brand and they charge what the market will bear for their irons.

Weller makes a similar iron to the Hakko, but it is slightly more. Either would be a good investment. I'm not sure how the tip situation is in Europe, but Hakko tips are harder to come by here in the States. Weller is an American product, so tips are easy to find locally in electronic stores. Since Hakko is Japanese, it may actually be easier to find tips than for Weller in Europe. That is one thing you probably should research.

If you're only planning to do one project, an inexpensive iron will do. But if you get bitten by the DIY bug, a Weller or Hakko is a great investment.

tung
I see, cheers man. Also, I know it is off the main topic, but don't tell them :master: :D What book/articles would you recommend to a newbie in order to understand the basics: how the components work (resistors, caps etc), what combinations of those components effect the sound and so on. Thanks :P

[EARNEST]

Should i get the newer version, FX-888?

[Pickngrin]

I just searched the thread to see if it had been mentioned, and didn't find it, so I will suggest the Xytronic 379 soldering station:
http://www.howardelectronics.com/xytronic/379.html

I bought one, several months back, after reading glowing (pun intended? umm... I'm not sure) reviews of this setup and what a great value it is. I haven't really used it extensively since I got it, but it certainly blows away the pencil irons I was using before this. Heats up very quickly. The scouring pad cleaner is very useful. The only qualm I have with it is that the insulation on the cord connecting the iron to the station kinks up, but it's not really that big of a deal.

[Commodore 64]

I'm about to pull the trigger on this Stahl Soldering Iron (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=374-100). Pretty good price, for an occasional solder joint, I would hope it would be reliable.

[kgwagner]

I used to work for an electronics manufacuring company about 100 years ago, and everybody swore by the 40 watt American Beauty (http://www.americanbeautytools.com/site/index.php?req=prod&cat=pencilirons). It's just a pencil iron, but they last forever, and seem to maintain temperature even without a control station.

When we started building microprocessor-based controls, the production people had to use isolated temperature-controlled units from Weller. Hated 'em. Universally. Luckily, it wasn't long before we got a wave soldering machine, and building boards got a lot easier. Then the production girls could go back to the American Beauties for the heavier work like wiring transformers, switches, pots, and so forth.

To this day I still use one of those irons. I've had it for probably 30 years, and it still works like a charm. Past all that, they use a power cable that has some super-fine stranded wire, but enough of it to carry some decent current. I think it's about a 16 gauge. Plus, the rubber they use for insulation doesn't kink - it's very flexible. If you set the thing down on the bench because the stand isn't close by, the power cord doesn't have a mind of its own that forces hot end to lay down and touch the bench or twist to some other position you didn't intend for it.

Highly recommended.

[just strum]

I'm about to pull the trigger on this Stahl Soldering Iron (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=374-100). Pretty good price, for an occasional solder joint, I would hope it would be reliable.

Did you end up buying this one?

I have a Weller that looks identical, except color. The one I have works great.

I picked mine up for $30 and it was a deal at that price - I would definitely jump on the Stahl at that price.

[Commodore 64]

Did you end up buying this one?

I have a Weller that looks identical, except color. The one I have works great.

I picked mine up for $30 and it was a deal at that price - I would definitely jump on the Stahl at that price.

Yes, I bought it. I haven't used it yet. However, my BYOC kit has arrived, and I'm expecting some other goodies for rewiring my latest CL purchase, so I'm hoping to use it soon...once this crazy holiday is over. Got one more day of crazy traveling today, then I'm DONE. Til Xmas, of course.

[navvid]

I use a Radioshack branded temperature control station that I have used for a good number of years now. I have also used many cheap irons of all types, and keep one in a drawer for taking on the go. In my experience, even a cheapo iron tip will last plenty long if treated properly. If you are destroying tips left and right, there is something wrong with your technique, no matter how cheap the hardware.

As soon as a tip gets contaminated, it must be cleaned and re-tinned. If the contamination is allowed to cake or remain, it will damage the surface of the tip below the tinned surface, and that's the end of your tip. They can sometimes be saved, but often can not. This is what results in the demise of most soldering tips.

As soon as you see a spot or any blackening anywhere on your tip, stop and feed fresh solder onto it until it bubbles off and there is an excessive drop of solder hanging from your tip, then roll the iron so the fresh solder coats the whole tip. If it is really carbonized, you may have to scrape it first. I use an exacto to very gently scrape the crust off. Then coat the tip in fresh solder.

If you are careful to keep your tip clean and tinned, it should last forever.

It should be noted that I do use Weller tips because they fit in my iron and are available in various profiles. They are indeed of a better quality than your usual Shack brand iron tips.

[Duff]

I always burn off some paste flux after I scrape the tip off with the back of the exacto knife blade, not the sharp part. This saves the exacto blade. Then I put some solder on the tip to tin it and the solder stays on and doesn't just roll off.

[navvid]

I always burn off some paste flux after I scrape the tip off with the back of the exacto knife blade, not the sharp part. This saves the exacto blade. Then I put some solder on the tip to tin it and the solder stays on and doesn't just roll off.

This would probably be the appropriate method.

1. scrape clean
2. immerse heated tip in flux
3. apply fresh solder
4. wipe tip clean

I usually neglect the flux step, since the solder has flux in it. Your soldering setup should include a small cleaning sponge. Cut parallel lines in the surface to catch the solder, and wet it with water. After adding the fresh solder, wipe and roll the tip across the wet sponge to remove excess solder and remaining contaminants. Clean the sponge regularly as you work, so you are always wiping on a clean area. If you do this religiously as you work, you will never not destroy tips, even cheap ones.

http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/thum_11954b691b59c1812.jpg (http://www.thefret.net/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1485)http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/thum_11954b691b761517e.jpg (http://www.thefret.net/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1486)

Here's my setup. All Radioshack, except the tips. As you can see, it has seen its fair share of action, and continues to serve me well.

[Duff]

My old weller pencil type twenty five watt has the original tip, probably fifteen years old; used intermittently, not constantly. Household use only, guitar pickups, switches, and such.

I bought a cheap eight dollar fourty watt Radio Shack pencil type that burned out in about five months of equally mild use: total junk. Certainly not the RS soldering station mentioned here.

[navvid]

Its not as nice as some of the other temp controlled stations mentioned here, but I worked at RS some years back and got it real cheap. And indeed, RS stuff is usually just that: real cheap. And, of coarse, there is no replacement for quality.

Nevertheless, I maintain that you can get a whole lot of work out of even a cheap iron.

Good call on the flux, Duff. If your tip is in real trouble, this can do the trick.

[Duff]

Yeah. I want to get a decent 40 watt iron with a reasonably small pointed tip to get into pots, etc., without melting the surrounding wire shielding.

An inexpensive but good quality station would be great. What about those ones on the GFS page? They have a welding station I think. Any experience by anyone with of these?

[Commodore 64]

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=374-100

I've used that one to build a pedal and replace the innards on 2 guitars. So far, it's been great. Can't beat the price either at 15 bucks.

[Bloozcat]

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=374-100

I've used that one to build a pedal and replace the innards on 2 guitars. So far, it's been great. Can't beat the price either at 15 bucks.

I've got the same soldering station. When I saw it on sale for $12.00 before Christmas, I asked "Mrs. Santa" to get me one.

It's surprisingly well made for the money, and the tips look to be very good as well (I got an extra set with it). The unit does take longer than either of my two irons (25W & 40W) to heat up, and so far I've only used it for a couple of quick jobs. When I sit down to build my reverb pedal, I'll have some more time to play with the heat settings. If in the end it works only as well as my irons, it'll still be worth more than the cost for that alone...not to mention the nice station that goes along with it.
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/374-100_s.jpg

[Commodore 64]

Mine takes a while to heat up too. I also got an extra tip kit, but so far so good.

BTW, the solder sucker they have there...http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=370-030 for 4 bucks works great too.

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/370-030_s.jpg

[Duff]

Do these soldering stations, 40 watts max, melt the new lead free solder being used internationally?

[tunghaichuan]

Do these soldering stations, 40 watts max, melt the new lead free solder being used internationally?

They should, the temperature dial goes high enough. But the issue is that the solder melts at such a high temperature that the components can cook due to the high heat. Also, the joints using the new lead-free solder aren't shiny like leaded solder joints so it is hard to tell if the joint is cold-soldered joint or not.

[Duff]

Tunghaichuan, so what is the best approach?

New lead free solder requires more heat. Heat can destroy components.

Wouldn't a 200 watt soldering gun or more powerful than 40 watt iron heat up the joint faster at the local site and penetrate less net heat into the component; thereby heating the joint site to required temp fast, do the soldering, and get out of there?

Use leaded solder over the old new solder joint, clip old wires, and use low power 20 - 40 watt pencil iron?

[tunghaichuan]

IMHO, the best approach is to stock up on leaded solder. That new stuff flat out sucks. I have pretty much a lifetime supply. I believe leaded solder is still sold in the USA, so I'd get some while I still could.

For soldering, it really isn't how much wattage the iron has, it is more the mass of the tip. I think a a 40-60 watt station is the best. But get a tip that is suitable for soldering guitar stuff.

The nice thing about the soldering stations is that several different sizes and types of tips are available. The tips also tend to be better quality. The two replacements I got for my Hakko station are still going strong after 15 years of use.

You don't want an iron that is too powerful, a 200 watt iron with a massive tip would fry your components in a hurry unless you were very quick with the iron.

Also you'd want to remove the old solder with a solder sucker or desoldering wick, even if it is the new lead free stuff. You want to get a nice clean joint, don't solder over existing lead free joints. So basically, you have to learn how to de-solder the new stuff effectively so you can replace it with leaded.



Tunghaichuan, so what is the best approach?

New lead free solder requires more heat. Heat can destroy components.

Wouldn't a 200 watt soldering gun or more powerful than 40 watt iron heat up the joint faster at the local site and penetrate less net heat into the component; thereby heating the joint site to required temp fast, do the soldering, and get out of there?

Use leaded solder over the old new solder joint, clip old wires, and use low power 20 - 40 watt pencil iron?

[syo]

I've found this thread to be very helpful. Thanks all. Tung, you especially seem to know your stuff. I am thinking to order the Hakko 936 but I am surprised to learn that it sells for twice the price (here in Japan) as in the US. I am currently using a very cheap $4 iron and have tons of soldering coming up so I do need to upgrade to a station. I saw a Hakko 936 shipping from China for $70 which looks authentic but you never know. Perhaps I'll give it a try.

For those asking about tip shapes, the Hakko site has a helpful guide:

http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/index.html

BTW Tung. I just noticed. Do you like The Immigrant Song or are you a devotee of Thor by chance? :)

[Duff]

Therefore, Tung, if a lot of heat is required to melt the new solder how do you remove it without burning the inside of the pots, etc.?

What is the best method to use here? Wrap the pot in a piece of wet cloth to help absorb the heat?

[tunghaichuan]

Therefore, Tung, if a lot of heat is required to melt the new solder how do you remove it without burning the inside of the pots, etc.?

What is the best method to use here? Wrap the pot in a piece of wet cloth to help absorb the heat?

Like anything else, you need a lot of skill. You also have to have the optimal setup, which is a temperature controlled station and the correct tip with enough mass to melt the solder quickly and remove it before it cooks the components. Speed is of the essence here. That, and a lot of practice.

[syo]

Just got the Hakko 936 station and it works great. Heats up in seconds, nice iron. Amazing what a difference it is from the cheap iron I was using.

[duhvoodooman]

Just got the Hakko 936 station and it works great. Heats up in seconds, nice iron. Amazing what a difference it is from the cheap iron I was using.
I'm sure loving mine....and kicking myself for not having bought one sooner! :thwap

[syo]

I'm sure loving mine....and kicking myself for not having bought one sooner! :thwap

I feel exactly the same! :thwap

[tunghaichuan]

Syo,

Sorry, I missed this before:


BTW Tung. I just noticed. Do you like The Immigrant Song or are you a devotee of Thor by chance? :)

I'm not a big fan of Led Zep, mainly because it was so over-played in the 80s and I got sick of hearing it all the time.

I just like Thor's Hammer as a symbol, it's not like I'm a devote of Asatru. :)

[EARNEST]

finally i am going to order hakko fx-888 with t18-d24 tips :)

[otaypanky]

So, does that mean I'm doing this wrong?

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w49/otaypanky/mig-welding4181054.jpg

Actually, I get better results using a $40 Weller WLC100 soldering station, 40 watt iron with variable temp

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w49/otaypanky/weller.jpg

[Bloozcat]

Wow, except for the color, that Weller looks suspiciously like this Stahl I got from Parts Express for $12.00 last year, otaypanky . It's also 40 watts and it works great.
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/374-100_s.jpg

[otaypanky]

Yes, it sure does. I see the Weller is up to $57 on Parts Express now, $52 at Radio Shack (online only)
I just used it assembling 2 amps and it was great. The only problem was me not knowing that leaving it on would burn up the tip. I left it on for countless hours while I was busy trying to figure out what the heck I was doing ~LOL
I went through one tip pretty fast. On the second amp I did better as I read a few posts and learned of my mistake

[Telefinken]

Here's my iron :)

http://www.utemagasinet.se/multimedia/archive/00296/RepV_allaJarn_296465d.jpeg

http://ct5.pbase.com/o4/84/809884/1/118706386.4Wq88ILd.duck.gif

[BobbySwift]

The best way to make sure components don't fry when installing them is to get a heatsink. You can buy heatsink devices that clip on to the leg of the component you are soldering and take the brunt of the heat so the part itself won't take up too much heat. they are a lot more effective than they sound or look like. I used to do lots of soldering in my job and found most of the time ii could get away without it (if you're quick enough) but mostly the heatsink idea is best for things like IC chips and sensitive electronics.
Here's a link to see what they look like (one type at least): http://www.robotshop.com/Images/big/en/elenco-soldering-heatsink.jpg

They are available through really any electronics supplier. Good luck with your projects

[Bloozcat]

The best way to make sure components don't fry when installing them is to get a heatsink. You can buy heatsink devices that clip on to the leg of the component you are soldering and take the brunt of the heat so the part itself won't take up too much heat. they are a lot more effective than they sound or look like. I used to do lots of soldering in my job and found most of the time ii could get away without it (if you're quick enough) but mostly the heatsink idea is best for things like IC chips and sensitive electronics.
Here's a link to see what they look like (one type at least): http://www.robotshop.com/Images/big/en/elenco-soldering-heatsink.jpg

They are available through really any electronics supplier. Good luck with your projects

I've been using hemostats for years. Not only do they make a great heat sink, but they're also useful for holding components in place while soldering.

[Commodore 64]

I've got the same soldering station. When I saw it on sale for $12.00 before Christmas, I asked "Mrs. Santa" to get me one.

It's surprisingly well made for the money, and the tips look to be very good as well (I got an extra set with it). The unit does take longer than either of my two irons (25W & 40W) to heat up, and so far I've only used it for a couple of quick jobs. When I sit down to build my reverb pedal, I'll have some more time to play with the heat settings. If in the end it works only as well as my irons, it'll still be worth more than the cost for that alone...not to mention the nice station that goes along with it.
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/374-100_s.jpg

Having used my Stahl for a while, I was getting frustrated with how long it took to heat up. Literally 10 minutes. And when you use the wet sponge to clean the tip, it takes too long to get back up to temperature. I grabbed a 25 watt Weller that I found while cleaning my garage and tried it one day, when I put new pots and tone cap in my tele. What a huge difference! I use the Weller exclusively now. I cut the cords off of the Stahl docking station and I use it for the Weller now.

DVM mentions this Weller here: http://www.thefret.net/showpost.php?p=186126&postcount=15

[Ch0jin]

Rather than cross posting, also see Hakko FX888 (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=17580)
replacement to the Hakko 936 recommended in this thread.

[Bloozcat]

You guys should move to Canada. We have a $1, and $2 coins.
It doesn't take many of them in a bucket to make a Grand. They replaced the paper bills. Now it is nothing to have 10 bucks in coins in your poket, with 5 coins.
A lot of us carry small coin pouches to save wear and tear on the pockets.

They've tried $1.00 coins here, nobody likes them. Personally, I find them annoying too. Whenever I travel to Canada or especially Europe, I end up with extra pounds of weight in my pocket from all of the one dollar/one euro coins. Since the coins have no intrinsic (precious metal) value, give me the paper instead...much easier to carry. I still have about 15 Euro in coins in the safe from our last trip to Europe (along with some paper as well). At least it's gone up in value with the US dollar on the slide.

And, for anyone who has not bought a 'helping hands' here's you chance, cheap, if there's a Harbor Freight Tools near you.

http://images.harborfreight.com/cpi/emails/0911/b_direct/images/13.jpg

http://www.harborfreight.com/helping-hands-319.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0911b