Cable - weakest link in the chain

[Jimi75]

Some days ago I made a nice trip to a big dutch guitar store that has some nice vintage treasures - I was looking for some nice old Fender blackfaces.

Having a coffe and talking to the owner he said that most people that buy their stuff in his shop spend 2-3000€ on a guitar, the same for an amph, but only 10€ for a cable. The cable can be the weakest link in the chain. He told me about one of his guitars that sounded just muddy. He was about to sell it, but then a friend told him to try a good cable. Up to that point he had no high class cables in his shop. He bought one for 175€ and it safed him from selling his guitar. 175€ is a lot of money "for a cable". I personally play monster cables and I pay around 65€ approx 95USD for a cable. Mine is 4 years old and it is a joy to play it. Ever when I play sessions and use one of the cheap 10 USD cables the difference is earthshaking! Last time rehearsing I gave my cable to our bassist and he already ordered one for himself.

Just think about it - pedals, amphs, guitars, but how about the cable? It really is essential, without being a HIFI audiophil.

Of course there could also be good cheap cables, but to me buying a cable means checking cables and not just grabbing one and going to the cashier :-)

How about you guys?
:)

Jimi

[Robert]

Listening to my playing from the casino gig on the weekend, I'd have to say the weakest link in the chain is the GUITAR PLAYER! :( :mad:

[sunvalleylaw]

Robert, I doubt that. Jimi, I had some really cheapos, and it was creating noise when I turned on my overdrive or distortion pedals. I had gotten the Boss NS-2 noise suppressor, but then bought some Live Wire cables. Relatively inexpensive but the difference between those and the MF housebrand was amazing. I also have an Ibanez cable that seems pretty good. I will not buy "house brand" ones from MF or the like again, and may try even the next grade up next time, like a monster cable. I am in the process of slowly changing my pedal connectors for the same reason and each change like that seems to help. I don't need to use the NS-2 as much anymore.

[R_of_G]

I purchased a couple of Monster cables about six months ago. Quality cables really do make a huge difference. The tone is significantly cleaner now (until I choose to dirty it up with effects of course).

[aeolian]

Cables are important element of the sound. I have a Monster cable, but I think it is just OK. I bought a couple of Bayou cables and they are excellent.

[Robert]

I bought some Mogami 2524 from Mark at www.lavacable.com - excellent cables. Not cheap but I have not regretted it. There is really no excuse for having crappy cables. On our last gig, the bass player disappeared in the middle of a song - his cable was faulty.... :mad:

[sunvalleylaw]

So Monsters are pretty good. What are the good bang for the buck cables? My live wires seem pretty good too, there may be better out there.

[tunghaichuan]

I think quality cables are important. Cheap cables will have lots of capacitance which will kill the high end.

However, I don't think that you have to spend a lot of money for cables. Buy some Canare GS-6 shielded cable, some heat shrink, and some nice Switchcraft connectors. Learn to solder and you're in business on the cheap. :AOK:

OTOH, if your time is more important than money, buy high quality cables.

tung

[marnold]

OK, I've got to call at least partial shenanigans on this one. I understand very cheap cables being bad. I've heard it myself. Low quality cable, bad shielding, bad plugs. Got it. However, I fail to see how you need to spend anything approaching a C-note for one (although the length of the cables was not specified, but still). Monster Cable is renown amongst A/V fans for being one of the biggest rip-offs ever. I would like to have someone explain to me what the upcharge is for. This is another thing that I would love to set up a double-blind experiment for.

My question is this: Can Tung, DVM, or any of you electronically-oriented people tell me a) why the price would be so high and b) would there be any improvement in tone over a high-quality but significantly cheaper cable that anyone other than Eric Johnson would be able to detect?

A quick price look-up showed that the cable Tung mentioned was going for about 0.80/foot. Switchcraft plugs are $2 each at Guitar Center. Even I could solder up something like that very quickly. So a 20 ft cable comes out to exactly $20.

[tunghaichuan]

Got it. However, I fail to see how you need to spend anything approaching a C-note for one (although the length of the cables was not specified, but still). Monster Cable is renown amongst A/V fans for being one of the biggest rip-offs ever. I would like to have someone explain to me what the upcharge is for. This is another thing that I would love to set up a double-blind experiment for.

My question is this: Can Tung, DVM, or any of you electronically-oriented people tell me a) why the price would be so high and b) would there be any improvement in tone over a high-quality but significantly cheaper cable that anyone other than Eric Johnson would be able to detect?

A quick price look-up showed that the cable Tung mentioned was going for about 0.80/foot. Switchcraft plugs are $2 each at Guitar Center. Even I could solder up something like that very quickly. So a 20 ft cable comes out to exactly $20.

Basically it's name recognition. Monster can charge what they do because they can get the price they ask. Their cable isn't any better than Canare cable. In a double blind test, I don't think anyone could pick out either one reliably. As for Monster as a company, they are known d-bags:

http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/1258/monster-cable-playing-with-fire

I'd never buy any of their cables. I just gave away my only one.

If you think that guitar cable markups are insane, try looking at audiophool nutjob speaker interconnects and cable. Some of that cable is $1K/foot, no kidding. The really sad thing is that I doubt any of those audiophiles could pick it out over 16 ga. lamp cord in a double blind test.

One tip when making you're own cable: some cable has a black shield between the center conductor insulator and the braided shield. This black shield is conductive so make sure it doesn't short to the center conductor (hot lead) or the cable will sound very dull.

tung

[Robert]

Canare and Mogami both make excellent cables, based on all the reading I've been doing on the topic.

[Spudman]

I can certainly tell the difference in signal quality and sound between some cables. Does that mean I have to have an expensive one? Nope. It just means that I have to find one that I like the sound of and I've done precisely that.

I have 4 cables that I take to gigs two of which I always use and neither cost more than $12. I also have a Monster cable and I can't hear or feel any difference between it and the other cables. In fact, the ends don't go into or come out of jacks as smoothly as my other cables. It gets stuck or something and it's a struggle to remove it from the jack.

So I do believe there is a difference between cables but it doesn't necessarily mean that the most expensive one is going to be the one you should use or makes your guitar sound the best.

[Carlström]

Yeah what most have been saying, it doesn't have to be expensive but it sure is a difference in sound between them so shopping around for one that fits you, your gear and your style of playing is a good idea

[sunvalleylaw]

Haven't you made some of your own too? Like I said, the relatively inexpensive Live Wire ones made a huge difference in my chain, going between my guitar and the chain, and back out. I have a few pedal connectors from them now too, but would like to learn to make some good quality connectors myself if it was cost effective. I wouldn't mind getting/making myself a longer, good quality stage cable as well to allow for a little more movement when I do play out or at jams.

I can certainly tell the difference in signal quality and sound between some cables. Does that mean I have to have an expensive one? Nope. It just means that I have to find one that I like the sound of and I've done precisely that.

I have 4 cables that I take to gigs two of which I always use and neither cost more than $12. I also have a Monster cable and I can't hear or feel any difference between it and the other cables. In fact, the ends don't go into or come out of jacks as smoothly as my other cables. It gets stuck or something and it's a struggle to remove it from the jack.

So I do believe there is a difference between cables but it doesn't necessarily mean that the most expensive one is going to be the one you should use or makes your guitar sound the best.

[Sundog]

Long time lurker, first time poster, so I hope this comes out okay.

Tried a friend's Death Valley Cable Company (http://www.deathvalleycable.com) cable and was REALLY impressed. My Monster Cable sounded really dull and muted next to it, like all the highs were being cut out. I never thought a cable could make a difference before this.

Only problem was that I had to order it. They don't have them at Guitar Center. But then again, I wanted a 16 foot guitar cable, which Guitar Center didn't have anyway, and this place made me a 16 footer, no problem.

Turns out all their cables are handmade to order. Only took three days to get it in the mail anyway so it really wasn't a big deal.

Anyway, check them out. I liked the first cable so much that I went back and bought three patch cables for my stomp boxes and a 15-foot cable to go from my Rat to the amp.

[just strum]

No offense guys, but this is the first time I've read anything good about Monster cables. Every other time it's "Over priced for what you get".

I purchase these and I'm happy with the quality.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/1/4in15/

and I get quality sound and with the money saved, I will eventually buy this.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ESDTANNH/

[markb]

I'm still using a batch of Klotz cables with Neutrik jacks that a local (London) music shop used to make up to order on a while you wait basis. Still working great after quite a few years use. Not expensive either. I'd advise anyone that can handle a soldering iron to make up their own cables. The packaging and brand name adds a lot to the cost of a good cable.

UK readers should know about these (http://www.award-session.com/cleartone_cables.html). Great cables without the hype.

[Jimi75]

I'm still using a batch of Klotz cables with Neutrik jacks that a local (London) music shop used to make up to order on a while you wait basis. Still working great after quite a few years use. Not expensive either. I'd advise anyone that can handle a soldering iron to make up their own cables. The packaging and brand name adds a lot to the cost of a good cable.

UK readers should know about these (http://www.award-session.com/cleartone_cables.html). Great cables without the hype.

Bought the KLOTZ LaGrange about two weeks ago. It is a wonderful cable that adds much sound. :master:

[ShortBuSX]

Ive always thought Monster Cables to be crap(aka marketing hype)...even before they started making guitar cables.
Ive got a Fender Vintage Voltage that I really like, but I dont like the fact its not serviceable(even though its been trouble free)...I like to find decent cables that are serviceable and affordable. I also like it if they have a nice heavy section of heat shrink between the cable and plug ends, so it keeps the cable from getting kinked and shorting....matter of fact, Im still using a cable(as described) that I bought from a music store here in town when I was about 15 y.o....the cable out lasted the store!(21 years later!)

This is a very interesting read (http://www.tonequest.com/ray.htm) if you get the chance(if you havent read it already) its an interview with Ceser Diaz, its a great article. :AOK:


Anyway, I sent messages to both Lenny Kravitz and Eric Johnson that part of the secret to getting great tone was using weaker pickups and coil cables. The coil cables add a lot of capacitance and inductance to your signal chain, therefore, when you’re playing through a Marshall, you’re cutting back on the high frequencies. When we were doing the In Step album with Stevie, I had an endorsement with Monster Cables. They would send me all of this free stuff and I was very excited because I could manage these things for a guy like Stevie, who really didn’t even know how to wash dishes. All he knew how to do was play the guitar, but God bless him for that, because he really did something with what he knew. Anyway, I took these cables we got to Stevie and he said, “I hate these things.” I asked him, “Why, man, they’re the best cables in the world?” He said, “They pass to much electricity.” Those were his exact words, and I’ll never forget it as long as I live. “They pass too much electricity.”

They were too efficient…

Yeah, so he sent me out to the local Radio Shack and told me to buy every gray coil cord they had – not the black ones, only the gray ones. And I thought, “Hhmm, this freakin’ hick from Dallas is telling me this?” I got them and ran them through my capacitance meter and found out that they added like almost .05 mfd to the signal chain. That made it sound solid – it was like having a tone control, and the brightness and harshness that the Marshalls had was eliminated. There isn’t a single picture of Hendrix… back then they already had high-end cables, but there isn’t a single picture of Hendrix where you see him playing with a straight cable. Why? This is something I brought up to Eric Johnson – whether he heard me or not I don’t know, but it could be the second coming of coil cables.

[Andy]

I have always used the middle of the road cables , not the cheapest but of good enough quality, spkr cables for spkrs ,instrument cables for the guitar.

Something I've noticed thru the years ,in many (not all, but many) cases when a person buys a $3,000 guitar ,a $3,000 amp and a $10 cable...outright
heh... when they make that amount of expenditure and they are not a pro musician, or atleast regular gigging,the weakest link is often between the instrument and the hands.

[markb]

One mass produced cable I can say is well worth the cash is the Di Marzio cloth covered one. Excellent and tough and it doesn't pick dust up off the stage like rubber(ish) covered cables. The Fender Vintage cables mentioned above are very similar, they may be rebadged versions.

[araT]

I have a couple of Dimarzio cables which I adore..
http://images.miretail.com/products/optionRegular/DiMarzio/369711_Xjpg.jpg

[ShortBuSX]

That looks similar to my Vintage Voltage, but the VV isnt serviceable like that one...kinda makes me want one of those!

Could anybody suggest a good 90* bend cable? Preferably serviceable...even better if its Telecaster friendly.

[markb]

That looks similar to my Vintage Voltage, but the VV isnt serviceable like that one...kinda makes me want one of those!

Could anybody suggest a good 90* bend cable? Preferably serviceable...even better if its Telecaster friendly.

Neutrik connectors are your friends here. Even their silent jack is Teletastic and they're really easy to solder.

http://www.neutrik.com/client/neutrik/media/products/view/210_t2_551236316.jpg

[Ch0jin]

.....Something I've noticed thru the years ,in many (not all, but many) cases when a person buys a $3,000 guitar ,a $3,000 amp and a $10 cable...outright
heh... when they make that amount of expenditure and they are not a pro musician, or atleast regular gigging,the weakest link is often between the instrument and the hands.


Heyyyyyy

I resemble that comment :)

[Plank_Spanker]

Good cables are essential, but........................................

..................I'm amused by players that obsess over their cables and insist that some boutique $$$ cable is the only way to go. All of my playing is driven to play gigs. There are far too many variables in play at gigs for me to worry about high end cables and their impact.

Don't get me wrong - I don't play dollar store 12 pack specials. I use decent cables that hold up, mostly Live Wires. I personally have no need for big buck boutique cables, and I'm thankful that I'm not cursed with the ears to hear the difference.

[Ch0jin]

I have a couple of Fender Vintage Voltage cables and I love them. Nothing at all to do how they sound though, I just love cloth covered cables and the overall feel of them. Not too stiff, not too flexy. I need to get one with a right angle plug though...

Oh and for casual lounge room use I prefer them over these ones
http://www.planetwaves.com/Pcablesdetails.aspx?ID=1

I have the "custom series" version with right angle connector, and it's a great cable to be sure, but they are designed for a tight fit and not to fall out of the socket and as a result I've had to re-tighten the jack on my maton once already as the cable fits a little too well. For a stage muso though I bet they rock for that reason.

[just strum]

...and I'm thankful that I'm not cursed with the ears to hear the difference.

or think you hear the difference.

[ShortBuSX]

I have a couple of Fender Vintage Voltage cables and I love them. Nothing at all to do how they sound though, I just love cloth covered cables and the overall feel of them. Not too stiff, not too flexy. I need to get one with a right angle plug though...

Yeah, I totally would buy a VV with a 90*
And to be honest, Im really dissapointed with Fender's 90* options...unless Im missing some.
I mean, come on! Its Fender's guitar(the Telecaster) that almost requires a 90*...and yet alot of the aftermarket 90*s wont work:thwap:
Ive got an LP that needs a 90* as well, but that easy, there are plenty of options...come on Fender! :poke:


Neutrik connectors are your friends here. Even their silent jack is Teletastic and they're really easy to solder.

But thats only if I wanna roll my own, right?

[Plank_Spanker]

or think you hear the difference.


That too! :D

[sunvalleylaw]

Don't get me wrong - I don't play dollar store 12 pack specials. I use decent cables that hold up, mostly Live Wires. I personally have no need for big buck boutique cables, and I'm thankful that I'm not cursed with the ears to hear the difference.

Hey, good to know. I stumbled on Live Wires and was pleasantly surprised at how much single coil and pedal chain noise was reduced by replacing some real cheapies with some Live Wires, and they are relatively reasonable and go on sale occasionally. I was thinking as I read this thread that they would be good enough for me. I may learn to "roll my own" for additional pedal connectors at some point.

[just strum]

Hey, good to know. I stumbled on Live Wires and was pleasantly surprised at how much single coil and pedal chain noise was reduced by replacing some real cheapies with some Live Wires, and they are relatively reasonable and go on sale occasionally. I was thinking as I read this thread that they would be good enough for me. I may learn to "roll my own" for additional pedal connectors at some point.


Next time you are looking to get cables, give ProCo as try - 20' for $15, plus 1) they go on sale a couple times a year, 2) Free shipping, and of course 3) no tax.

[Plank_Spanker]

Hey, good to know. I stumbled on Live Wires and was pleasantly surprised at how much single coil and pedal chain noise was reduced by replacing some real cheapies with some Live Wires, and they are relatively reasonable and go on sale occasionally. I was thinking as I read this thread that they would be good enough for me. I may learn to "roll my own" for additional pedal connectors at some point.

Steve,

I like my Live Wire cables. They sound good to me. They have been folded, spindled, mutilated, crushed, run over..................and generally abused at gigs..........................and I have yet to replace one. They're pretty tough. :D

[Andy]

check this guy out he will do you right on cables, whatever you want

http://www.bayoucables.com/