John 5 Tele Wiring Mods?

[Teleblaster]

Hi

Well after successfully completing my first rewiring job, I am ready for the next!

If you are not familiar with the wiring on the J5 then please check it out here (http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdf_temp1/telecaster/0139000_306A/SD0139000_306APg2.pdf).

It has a 3 way toggle near the upper strap button like on a Les Paul which toggles between single coil neck and a humbucker in the bridge. It uses 2 volumes-one for each pickup, no tone, no caps.

I definitely am interested in splitting the bridge bucker and possibly adding a another HB to the neck. Are there any extra sounds I could get by adding another 3 or 5 way switch to the control panel as well as using one or two push pull pots?

Please be specific and give detailed instructions if possible. I'm still a mod rookie :)


Thanks!

[marnold]

Well, what I would do is this: swap out both pots for push-pull pots. Use one to cut the coil(s) of the humbucker(s) and the other as a series-parallel switch. That would give you a lot of tonal options. DVM has the wiring instructions (http://duhvoodooman.com/musical/humbucker_mods/humbucker_mods_2.htm) for your perusal. Check out "Basic Coil Cut Wiring" and "'Megabucker' Series Wiring" on that page. Depending on the humbucker(s) you should be able to have the middle position be hum-canceling with the humbucker(s) in single coil mode.

Then you'd have these options:
Bridge only (single coil or humbucker)
Neck only (single coil or humbucker--assuming you swap out the neck pickup)
Middle in single coil mode (series or parallel)
Middle in humbucker mode (series or parallel)

Suddenly your guitar goes from three tones to eight. Not at all bad.

[Teleblaster]

Well, what I would do is this: swap out both pots for push-pull pots. Use one to cut the coil(s) of the humbucker(s) and the other as a series-parallel switch. That would give you a lot of tonal options. DVM has the wiring instructions (http://duhvoodooman.com/musical/humbucker_mods/humbucker_mods_2.htm) for your perusal. Check out "Basic Coil Cut Wiring" and "'Megabucker' Series Wiring" on that page. Depending on the humbucker(s) you should be able to have the middle position be hum-canceling with the humbucker(s) in single coil mode.

Then you'd have these options:
Bridge only (single coil or humbucker)
Neck only (single coil or humbucker--assuming you swap out the neck pickup)
Middle in single coil mode (series or parallel)
Middle in humbucker mode (series or parallel)

Suddenly your guitar goes from three tones to eight. Not at all bad.


That sounds great! Can you tell if stock wiring is set up for series or parallel as is? It is kind of different since it is simply just 2 volume controls.

Thanks

[marnold]

I assume it is parallel stock. The easy way to tell is if the middle position is quieter than the bridge alone, it's parallel. If it's louder, it's series.

[duhvoodooman]

Well, what I would do is this: swap out both pots for push-pull pots. Use one to cut the coil(s) of the humbucker(s) and the other as a series-parallel switch. That would give you a lot of tonal options. DVM has the wiring instructions (http://duhvoodooman.com/musical/humbucker_mods/humbucker_mods_2.htm) for your perusal. Check out "Basic Coil Cut Wiring" and "'Megabucker' Series Wiring" on that page. Depending on the humbucker(s) you should be able to have the middle position be hum-canceling with the humbucker(s) in single coil mode.

Then you'd have these options:
Bridge only (single coil or humbucker)
Neck only (single coil or humbucker--assuming you swap out the neck pickup)
Middle in single coil mode (series or parallel)
Middle in humbucker mode (series or parallel)

Suddenly your guitar goes from three tones to eight. Not at all bad.

+1. That's exactly what I'd recommend, too. If you end up replacing the neck single coil with a humbucker, the two controls become something of a constraint for doing additional things (in/out of phase switching; separate coil cuts for the two humbuckers). An added switch might be desirable then, depending on what you want to do. But for the current pickups, Marnold's suggestion is an excellent one, and would work well with dual humbuckers, too. You'd just have to live with both coil cuts being on the same switch.

[Teleblaster]

Could adding a second 3 way switch achieve anything or would it just be redundant? I'm especially interested in this because there is room for one and I have some to spare.

Thanks

[marnold]

Could adding a second 3 way switch achieve anything or would it just be redundant? I'm especially interested in this because there is room for one and I have some to spare.
I don't think you'd gain much. If you wanted to add another switch, I'd suggest doing a "Jerry Donahue" mod. Basically it's a phase switch with a cap. That way if you are in the middle position in parallel, it will give you a "quack" tone somewhat like a Strat. If you are interested I can try to dig up my schematic for it. It's pretty simple. It probably would only be effective with your pups in single coil mode. Who knows though? It might also give you some other interesting never-before-heard tones.

By the by, I think those John 5 teles look sharp. I just know I'd go majorly A.R. about fingerprints with a black finish and mirror pickguard though.

[Teleblaster]

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/just-pickups/56662-what-jerry-donahue-schematic.html

Is that it at the bottom? Hmm, it looks like it requires a superswitch. Do you think using a second tele style 3 way switch in coordination with the 3-way LP style switch could get me something. I really wouldn't know where to start without a diagram :/

Adding a phase switch with a cap would be ideal with the single coil neck, which I'm leaning towards using.


Yeah, the J5 is pretty cool looking (heavy as all sin though!). I have a black car and after a while you just get used to it always looking dirty. I haven't had the chance to really give it a go yet. I purchased it used with a Burstbucker in the neck (the twisted tele and chrome guard came with it also). Only half of the bridge humbucker was working so I got a new one to put in. It has been disassembled for months now and I can't wait to play the thing!

[marnold]

There's a way easier way to do it. I know on JD's tele it's wired into the switch itself, but you can do it with a push-pull or similar switch much more easily. Unfortunately, the guy who had it posted no longer does. I'll email him. IIRC, it was wired just like a phase-reversal switch (the diagram looks like an X on a push-pull pot's lugs), except that one part of the X has a cap across it. Basically what happens is that the cap rolls low end off the neck pickup so that the low frequencies from the bridge pickup are not canceled out by the phase reversing.

[marnold]

Here's the diagram. It's from Steve Dallman, who some of you may know from the FDP forum. I got a chance to meet him while he was still working in Green Bay. Super guy.

Anyway, he mentions using a resistor as well as a capacitor, which is the way the JD Tele does it. Steve told me though that the resistor really isn't all that important to the tone.
http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/2248e38e544efa7.jpg

[Teleblaster]

Here's the diagram. It's from Steve Dallman, who some of you may know from the FDP forum. I got a chance to meet him while he was still working in Green Bay. Super guy.

Anyway, he mentions using a resistor as well as a capacitor, which is the way the JD Tele does it. Steve told me though that the resistor really isn't all that important to the tone.
http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/2248e38e544efa7.jpg


Hmm, ok. For the tele neck pickup.

Would the negative neck wire on a tele pickup be the normal ground and then the shield ground would come from the metal cover and act as the ground?

It looks like my Burstbucker is not coil tapped it only has one wire coming through metal covered insulation. Would this mod be possible using it?

[marnold]

Would the negative neck wire on a tele pickup be the normal ground and then the shield ground would come from the metal cover and act as the ground?

Question #1: Yes
Question #2: Not exactly
Note that the lower left lug of the switch is connected to the ground. When the switch is down, the hot goes to the main switch and the ground goes to ground. When the switch is up the ground goes to the switch and the hot goes the ground, reversing the phase.

If you are doing the series/parallel mod you will need to have a separate ground for the metal cover on the pickup, if there is one, in addition to the normal pickup ground. You might actually need one even if you just do the phase switch. I'm sure sending the cover's ground to the hot output would be A Bad Thing.


It looks like my Burstbucker is not coil tapped it only has one wire coming through metal covered insulation. Would this mod be possible using it?
From a glance at the Burstbucker wiring diagram it seems that you actually use the metal insulation is the ground. Be very cautious when soldering to it. I would assume that otherwise it would work normally, but maybe a resident Gibson and/or wiring expert could chime in here.

[Teleblaster]

Question #1: Yes
Question #2: Not exactly
Note that the lower left lug of the switch is connected to the ground. When the switch is down, the hot goes to the main switch and the ground goes to ground. When the switch is up the ground goes to the switch and the hot goes the ground, reversing the phase.

If you are doing the series/parallel mod you will need to have a separate ground for the metal cover on the pickup, if there is one, in addition to the normal pickup ground. You might actually need one even if you just do the phase switch. I'm sure sending the cover's ground to the hot output would be A Bad Thing.

.


Hello

If I go single coil then I do not think I will be using the Twisted Tele pickup on this guitar. I have an Adder Plus T300 pickup that I think I will use. It has 3 wires coming from it. A hot (red), ground (green), and a white wire that is called the "ground shield". All three appear to go inside the pickup cover. I am assuming that the 3rd ground wire is a ground that is attached to the cover. Is this correct?



From a glance at the Burstbucker wiring diagram it seems that you actually use the metal insulation is the ground. Be very cautious when soldering to it. I would assume that otherwise it would work normally, but maybe a resident Gibson and/or wiring expert could chime in here.

You're right, the insulation was grounded. I noticed it when I disassembled the pickup. Since it only has 2 wires in effect, I'm assuming that I will be unable to do any series or phase switching.

Thanks for your help. I'm still trying to see what possibilties I have before "surgery" begins.

[marnold]

If I go single coil then I do not think I will be using the Twisted Tele pickup on this guitar. I have an Adder Plus T300 pickup that I think I will use. It has 3 wires coming from it. A hot (red), ground (green), and a white wire that is called the "ground shield". All three appear to go inside the pickup cover. I am assuming that the 3rd ground wire is a ground that is attached to the cover. Is this correct?

Not sure about that particular pickup. Their website seems to have gone away. My Screamin' Demon and Atomic II humbuckers both have two separate grounds so I'd need wiring instructions or something to say for sure. It would be logical that it'd be the pickup cover ground. That's one of many reasons I hate metal pickup covers.


You're right, the insulation was grounded. I noticed it when I disassembled the pickup. Since it only has 2 wires in effect, I'm assuming that I will be unable to do any series or phase switching.

You need four leads to do coil cutting or using series/parallel wiring within the pickup itself, but you only need two for phase wiring or series/parallel wiring between two pickups.

[Teleblaster]

Hi Again

Ok, I've decided on what I want if at all possible.

Adder T300 Neck Vol Push Pull
Pushed: Normal
Pulled: Out of Phase Series

Bridge Vol Push Pull
Push: Normal
Pulled: Split Coil

Would the neck pulled and bridge volume all the way up be the same as Bridge/Neck series out of phase? Also with the neck volume pushed, will the cap used for parallel be completely out of circuit? I really want to preserve the simplicity of the stock setup with both pots pushed.

Do I have to modify anything at the 3 way toggle or can I leave it as wired stock?

Thanks

[Teleblaster]

Hmm, this may be tough. It looks like there is some odd stuff going on with the original wiring. Note the wires from both the neck and the bridge pickup spliced together. I may be better off just sticking with stock. :confused:

[Teleblaster]

Ok, I think I figured out how I will split the bottom coil. Using duhvoodoman.com

I want to somehow be able to get both the neck and the bridge pickup out of phase in series. Is this possible?

[marnold]

I want to somehow be able to get both the neck and the bridge pickup out of phase in series. Is this possible?
Yes, but I don't think you're going to be able to do that with one switch. The phase switch itself takes up a whole DPDT switch. There may be some way that you could do it with a super switch but that is WAY beyond me.

[Teleblaster]

Ok, I will stick with the coil splitting or maybe even just out of phase for the bridge pickup for now. Hopefully I can eventually gain a better understanding of all this stuff and be able to improvise something with a 2nd 3 way switch on the control plate.
Thanks for all of your help! :)