Sound Clips for Two of My Amps

[tunghaichuan]

I've made a few .mp3 files of two of my amps, the EF86 Marshall/Vox clone (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=8614&highlight=ef86) and the converted Lead 12 (http://www.diycustomamps.com/images/lead12/).

Please excuse the terrible and sloppy playing:

http://www.diycustomamps.com/mp3/

I think the sound samples represent the various tones from the amps.

The EF86 amp has a special tube shield over the EF86 tube. Even though the tube is slightly microphonic the amp does not squeal when cranked up.

The clips were recorded into Audacity on Mrs. Tung's laptop with Behringer mic pre and a Behringer A/D USB converter. Luckily the missus was gone this morning so I could get some samples recorded. The mic I used was a Sure SM-58 vocal mic, but it seems to work okay.

Any comments or constructive criticism would be great (yeah, I know I need lessons :D )

tung

[Tone2TheBone]

The tone on the EF86 is nice and thick you did a good build job on that one. Good amp. I remember those Lead 12s. That's a pretty cool mod for that one and now you've got a killer little amp. :beer:

[aeolian]

Very cool, Tung!

I like the tone you get out of both amps, although I slightly prefer the lead12. I prefer it because of the vast contrast between the clean sound and the overdriven tone.

Now if you can help me with some questions. Are the overdriven sounds strictly from cranking the amps or did you have to use a pedal to get those tones? My other question is about your mic placement for recording these clips because I really like the tone you get on 'tape.' Having tried before recording a mic'ed amp I know it is an art to get on 'tape' what you actually hear from the amp. Let me in on the secret, will you? All of my other previous attempts at recording were done with a J-Station so I never have to worry about mic placement; the one time I tried recording my Swart AST I was not happy with the result.

[tunghaichuan]

The tone on the EF86 is nice and thick you did a good build job on that one. Good amp. I remember those Lead 12s. That's a pretty cool mod for that one and now you've got a killer little amp. :beer:

Thanks for the comments. I'm going to order a new set of face plates for the EF86 amp to make it look better. It needs new pots, the ones in it now are pretty marginal. I may do a few more upgrades depending on how ambitious I am at the time. :D

The circuit in the Lead 12 is the AX84 P1, Rev. 10 schematic with a 7868 tube dropped in and beefed up iron to support the extra current draw and output. I built the EL84 version about 8 years ago, and it is not very gainy. The converted Lead 12 isn't either. Cranked all the way up there is minimal distortion. They need clean boosters or OD boxes to get them to give up the goods.

tung

[tunghaichuan]

Very cool, Tung!

I like the tone you get out of both amps, although I slightly prefer the lead12. I prefer it because of the vast contrast between the clean sound and the overdriven tone.


Thanks for the reply. I used a Boss Turbo OD for the Lead 12 OD sounds. The first clip is the normal setting, the second clip is the boosted "Turbo" sound. That amp does not have a lot of gain, so cranked up it does not overdrive like the EF86 amp.



Now if you can help me with some questions. Are the overdriven sounds strictly from cranking the amps or did you have to use a pedal to get those tones?

The Lead 12 examples use the Boss Turbo OD. The EF86 uses a Boss Blues Driver BD-2 set up as a clean boost. The other clip is the amp cranked up to about 3 o'clock on the dial all natural tube distortion. The EF86 amp is very gainy and starts to OD very fast, after about 3 o'clock on the dial.



My other question is about your mic placement for recording these clips because I really like the tone you get on 'tape.' Having tried before recording a mic'ed amp I know it is an art to get on 'tape' what you actually hear from the amp. Let me in on the secret, will you? All of my other previous attempts at recording were done with a J-Station so I never have to worry about mic placement; the one time I tried recording my Swart AST I was not happy with the result.

Hmm. I used a Sure SM-58 vocal mic and a mic stand with a boom. I put the mic in the center of the cone and pointed the mic a little to the side of the cone, inward, if you can visualize that. I should have taken a picture because I'll most likely never be able to replicate the sound.

What size speaker was in the Swart AST? The Lead 12 has a 50w, 10" Celestion replacing the stock speaker. I used an RSA 1x12" ported speaker cab with the EF86 amp. It has a Celestion G12M-70 "Modern Lead" speaker in it.

I've had pretty much the same experience as you with miking amps. In fact on a second listen, those OD clips sound a little fuzzy with some nasy high-end riding on top.

I recorded a few passes with a Boss MD-2 Mega Distortion, but those sounded way too fuzzy no matter where I placed the EQ and gain controls :(

One thing I realized is that when recording less gain can sound fatter. Diming the gain only made the clips sound mushy and indistinct with no dynamic range.

tung

[aeolian]

Tung, thanks for the really useful information. I want to give recording a mic'ed amp another try sometime soon.

The Swart AST is a combo amp with a 12" speaker, it is my one and only tube amp. If you are not familiar with the Swart amp this link may be interesting:

http://swartamps.com/swart_atomic_space_tone.htm

[sumitomo]

I like that Lead 12 also Tung.I might have to try and build me one.And your playin' is not bad at all.Sumi:D

[duhvoodooman]

They both sounded great to me, but I slightly prefer the EF86. Especially if it will overdrive like that on its own. Nice.

And please adhere to our "Never apologize for your playing" Fret.Net rule in the future! We all suck, at some level! ;) :D

[sunvalleylaw]

I like them both! For different reasons. I guess it would be nice to have one of each, as you do. :-)

[M29]

Oh yes, one of each please:AOK: Your playing is good, now mine...well...that is not so good..:D Fine work indeed tung:rockon:

[marnold]

They both sound great! You could build me an EF86, if you'd like. My birthday is coming up in February :)

[tunghaichuan]

I like them both! For different reasons. I guess it would be nice to have one of each, as you do. :-)

Thanks for the kind words. I've got a whole closet of various types of amps I've built.

I think I'm going to try some Valve Junior clips next: modded and stock, and maybe a few of my Blackheart amps.

I think I'm also going to try using my Behringer speaker sim box to see what results I get with that.

tung

[tunghaichuan]

Oh yes, one of each please:AOK: Your playing is good, now mine...well...that is not so good..:D Fine work indeed tung:rockon:

Thanks, but let's just say that I'm better at building them than playing them. :D

tung

[tunghaichuan]

They both sound great! You could build me an EF86, if you'd like. My birthday is coming up in February :)


I like that Lead 12 also Tung.I might have to try and build me one.And your playin' is not bad at all.Sumi:D

Sumi & Marnold,

I'm going to start on a project that will use another pentode in the preamp. I've heard some sample clips from a similar amp, and I have great hopes for this new amp. Stay tuned.

tung

[Teleblaster]

That sounded good! I really like the clean bell tones you got out of the Lead 12 but I typically enjoy playing clean. What guitar were you using?

[tunghaichuan]

That sounded good! I really like the clean bell tones you got out of the Lead 12 but I typically enjoy playing clean. What guitar were you using?

Thanks for the kind words. I think the cleans are a combination of the 7868 tube (which was developed for hifi, BTW) and the Edcor output transformer. I replaced the Hammond 125ESE in one of my tweed Princeton clones with one of Edcor's OTs and it has a very pretty clean tone now. The Princeton sounded much better distorted with the Hammond in it, but the clean tone is so nice I do not want to change it back.

The guitar I used is a Hohner Revelation RTS. It's kind of an oddball and it took a while to get used to but it is now my main guitar.

You can read about it and see some pix in this thread (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=6497).

tung

[Teleblaster]

Thanks for the kind words. I think the cleans are a combination of the 7868 tube (which was developed for hifi, BTW) and the Edcor output transformer. I replaced the Hammond 125ESE in one of my tweed Princeton clones with one of Edcor's OTs and it has a very pretty clean tone now. The Princeton sounded much better distorted with the Hammond in it, but the clean tone is so nice I do not want to change it back.

The guitar I used is a Hohner Revelation RTS. It's kind of an oddball and it took a while to get used to but it is now my main guitar.

You can read about it and see some pix in this thread (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=6497).

tung

Thanks, I wanted to get an idea of the complete setup you were using. That is a very cool looking axe! I really like the finish. Did you leave in those pickups, are they ceramic?
I've never heard of a 7868 Tube. Is it a straight replacement for any other more common tubes? Thanks

[tunghaichuan]

Thanks, I wanted to get an idea of the complete setup you were using. That is a very cool looking axe! I really like the finish. Did you leave in those pickups, are they ceramic?


I don't know, to tell the truth. If I had to guess I would say ceramic, but I could be wrong. They are true single coils as they buzz in the 1, 3, & 5 positions. The middle PU must be RWRP because the PUs don't buzz in the 2 & 4 positions.



I've never heard of a 7868 Tube. Is it a straight replacement for any other more common tubes? Thanks

It is the magnoval/novar base version of the 7591, which has an octal base. These tubes were used in some Ampeg amps in the early 60s. The 7868 was developed for hifi use. It is like a larger more powerful version of the EL84 in that it is a high gain tube. It doesn't take much signal at all to get maximum power out of the tube. In a push pull amp running with about 450v on the anodes, it is possible to get 40 watts out of the pair. I estimate that my little single ended amp gets about 10 watts out of one running at 320v on the anode.

7868 tubes were used in some Fisher hifi amps and some Bogen PA amps. They were not made for very long so NOS examples are very expensive but there is a copy being made today that is fairly reasonable.

They have a funky magnoval/novar socket that has 9 pins. The tube itself looks like an overgrown EL84 as the pins stick straight through the bottom of the glass envelope. The 7591 has an octal base, but has a different pinout than then more common 6V6, 6L6, etc. so it can not be plugged into those circuits without rewiring the socket.

tung