The Cost of the Other Gas

[just strum]

Gas hit as low as $2.93 in places around here today.

HOLY COW!!!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/cow1.jpg

[Tone2TheBone]

Could this be a result of pre-election results?

[marnold]

Could this be a result of pre-election results?
I don't know if I'd see anything generally that sinister. Not because I believe that one party or the other wouldn't try it if they could. I just don't think that parties are clever or organized enough to do it. Basically I trust incompetence to keep evil in line :)

The reality is that gas SHOULD be that low. The price of oil was jacked up, first because of pipeline concerns in Iraq, then because of pure speculation, then because of hurricane concerns that by and large didn't materialize (at least as far as oil production/refining goes). While speculation is a pain for the average person, a speculation-driven spike will always end up with a painful crash back to reality. That's what we're seeing now. There's nothing to freak out investors now. Once oil hit $100, the crash was officially on. Also the U.S. dollar has recovered somewhat which helps. For reasons I've never fully understood, oil is only traded in U.S. dollars. Pity some people will lose their shirts on that. Not.

Of course here in the People's Republic of Wisconsin gas is still around $3.49. Our taxes here are outrageous and even though the "minimum mark-up law" was struck down as unconstitutional, nothing has really happened about it.

All this price dropping is great news for me. I travel 25 miles one way to take my kids to school every day. Gas dropping below $3.00 would save me a small fortune.

[just strum]

I travel 80+ miles a day, so if this continues or levels off below $3.00, I just got a raise or at least recovery of the continued loss.

I have limited my driving after work and on weekends. Most weekends the car is parked when I arrive home on Friday and then started again Monday morning. If I have to go to the store on the weekend, I do it early in the morning and take one of the kids cars before they wake up. :D

I just hope this trend continues.

[ShortBuSX]

I don't know if I'd see anything generally that sinister. Not because I believe that one party or the other wouldn't try it if they could. I just don't think that parties are clever or organized enough to do it.

But if you are an oil company that made billions...wouldnt you be smart enough to support your candidate by making a temporary minor adjustment?

[bigoldron]

Gas hit as low as $2.93 in places around here today.



Whew! You scared me there. I thought you were going to tell that Bush's Baked Beans had gone up! :eek: :rotflmao:

[just strum]

Well the price in most areas in and around Cleveland is at $2.93 ($0.775 per litre). On the west side of town (I live east) gas is being reported as low as $2.58 ($0.682 per litre)

What's happening in your part of the world?

[sunvalleylaw]

We are still up in the 3s! :flamemad: :reallymad: :spank:


(whoa, that is too mad and uptight looking, back to closing my eyes and playing guitar).

[marnold]

I filled up Friday morning for $3.27. By mid-afternoon it was $3.22. I haven't been around town today in my car.

[ted s]

We are down to $103/litre, that's about $4.50/gal. I think. A bargoon around here. Oh, and our dollar is back down around 0.87 US.

[just strum]

We are down to $103/litre, that's about $4.50/gal. I think. A bargoon around here. Oh, and our dollar is back down around 0.87 US.

$1.03 per litre is $3.897 per Gallon, unless you are calculating the value of your dollar.

When I was up there a couple of weeks ago it was $1.17 per litre.

[marnold]

I just heard that it dropped in a nearby town to $2.99. That's a full dollar's drop since September 18.

[Tone2TheBone]

I filled up earlier this week at $2.75 a gallon. Wow!

[piebaldpython]

Filled up in Philly today at $3.11 per gallon. Yes, this drastic price tumbling has all the earmarks of political maneuvering and geez, it just can't be coincidental that this is all happening with a month left before the election and the Republican nominee is lagging behind and on the ropes. :D :D :D

Add to that the fact that our Pres is a member of Texas Oil himself and that all his buddies are filthy, stinkin' RICH with his 8 years of administration.

If it looks like POOP.....and it smells like POOP.......it probably IS!! :rotflmao:

[just strum]

Filled up in Philly today at $3.11 per gallon. Yes, this drastic price tumbling has all the earmarks of political maneuvering and geez, it just can't be coincidental that this is all happening with a month left before the election and the Republican nominee is lagging behind and on the ropes. :D :D :D

Add to that the fact that our Pres is a member of Texas Oil himself and that all his buddies are filthy, stinkin' RICH with his 8 years of administration.

If it looks like POOP.....and it smells like POOP.......it probably IS!! :rotflmao:

It's just a crashing market, the cost of a barrel of gas is somewhere in the area of $78, I believe it was $120+, anyone invested in oil took a big hit. I should say anyone invested in oil lost some of their millions or billions in profit.

OPEC is looking at cutting back production to boost value. Suggestion: buy an underground storage tank for the house and fill it up, because these prices may be short lived.

[just strum]

Paid $2.189 per gallon today. Gas has dropped .74 per gallon since I started this thread on October 3.

Hey OPEC http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/Smiley/you2.gif

[Kazz]

2.18 up there? Wow....it is 2.35 in Southern Indiana/Western Kentucky today....and has decreased about 1.00 in that same period of time Strummy

[marnold]

It was $2.66 in Green Bay last night. I filled up my near-empty car for less than $40 and nearly had a stroke.

[just strum]

My wife and I went out for a bite to eat and went past the same station where I paid $2.189 about six hours earlier. They are now selling it at $2.129 and every pump has at least one car pumping and another waiting. They have 4 pumps (actually two, but hose on each side) per island and six islands. So there might have been up to 48 cars there.:thwap:

When I went earlier, there were probably 5 or 6 cars. It was worth the extra $0.06 to not have to wait.

[duhvoodooman]

Yeah, I know gas prices are way down, but it really burns my *** to read stuff like this:


Exxon-Mobil sets US profit record (http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/30/news/companies/exxon_earnings/index.htm?cnn=yes)

With families and small businesses struggling with record gas prices over the summer, is just s-o-o-o reassruing to see that Exxon-Mobil was setting a record of their own. Sharks.... :flamemad:

[just strum]

Yeah, I know gas prices are way down, but it really burns my *** to read stuff like this:


Exxon-Mobil sets US profit record (http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/30/news/companies/exxon_earnings/index.htm?cnn=yes)

With families and small businesses struggling with record gas prices over the summer, is just s-o-o-o reassruing to see that Exxon-Mobil was setting a record of their own. Sharks.... :flamemad:

Be patient, the trickle down effect will kick in shortly.

[just strum]

One of the gas stations here has gas at $2.19 and I think I have a $2.20 per gallon per gallon discount for up to 30 gallons. Going to be filling up and taking my 5 gallon containers there tonight for my free 30 gal of gas.

[duhvoodooman]

Be patient, the trickle down effect will kick in shortly.
I'm not referring to current price trends. What disgusts me here is that Exxon-Mobil reaped RECORD PROFITS during a time of great hardship for families and small businesses (and some large ones, too, notably airlines). They just passed along the pain--with a markup, apparently--with no evidence of concern or conscience. That's my opinion, anyway....

So much of what's wrong in America today boils down to one thing, IMO--greed.

[just strum]

I'm not referring to current price trends. What disgusts me here is that Exxon-Mobil reaped RECORD PROFITS during a time of great hardship for families and small businesses (and some large ones, too, notably airlines). They just passed along the pain--with a markup, apparently--with no evidence of concern or conscience. That's my opinion, anyway....

So much of what's wrong in America today boils down to one thing, IMO--greed.

I'm not referring to the lower gas prices. I'm referring to the notion that if the rich get richer, it will trickle down to the average Joe, or dare I say Joe Plumber.

[duhvoodooman]

I'm not referring to the lower gas prices. I'm referring to the notion that if the rich get richer, it will trickle down to the average Joe, or dare I say Joe Plumber.
Ah, yes--got you now. I misinterpreted your use of the "trickle down" phrase, thinking you meant the decreasing gas prices, per your subsequent post. Should have recognized vintage Reaganomics terminology when I saw it! :thwap:

BTW, I love the fact that his name's not Joe, and he's not a licensed plumber. Ain't presidential campaign rhetoric great?? Oops--danger, Will Robinson! Approaching hazardous political content!! DVM signing out....

[sumitomo]

I'm not referring to current price trends. What disgusts me here is that Exxon-Mobil reaped RECORD PROFITS during a time of great hardship for families and small businesses (and some large ones, too, notably airlines). They just passed along the pain--with a markup, apparently--with no evidence of concern or conscience. That's my opinion, anyway....

So much of what's wrong in America today boils down to one thing, IMO--greed.

I have to agree with ya DVM,it's greed and it's greed gunna break this nation too!Sumi :(

[just strum]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/Lost_In_Space_robot_body_1_2_2004.jpg

[sunvalleylaw]

One of the gas stations here has gas at $2.19 and I think I have a $2.20 per gallon per gallon discount for up to 30 gallons. Going to be filling up and taking my 5 gallon containers there tonight for my free 30 gal of gas.


Hmm, we're only a dollar per gallon higher in price than you guys. :reallymad: We have a year around greed factor up here built in up here as far as gas prices go. I could see it costing a little extra per gallon because of a little bit of added transport, but not the disparity we see between Twin Falls, ID prices and up here.

[just strum]

Hmm, we're only a dollar per gallon higher in price than you guys. :reallymad: We have a year around greed factor up here built in up here as far as gas prices go. I could see it costing a little extra per gallon because of a little bit of added transport, but not the disparity we see between Twin Falls, ID prices and up here.

The price of gas in a 50 mile radius here can be as much as .45 - to me that is a sign of price gouging. There is no way the same brand that much from one location to another in such a small area. However, there is the case of operator owned and company owned.

Can't you guys make fuel from potato's? If you can make booze with it, why not fuel?

[ET335]

Yep fill her up with some tater juice:beer:

[sunvalleylaw]

The price of gas in a 50 mile radius here can be as much as .45 - to me that is a sign of price gouging. There is no way the same brand that much from one location to another in such a small area. However, there is the case of operator owned and company owned.

Can't you guys make fuel from potato's? If you can make booze with it, why not fuel?

There was the local high school science teacher who headed a class project where they converted a diesel Rabbit to burn french fry oil. Worked great, but it is hard to get enough fry oil.

[sumitomo]

Can't you guys make fuel from potato's? If you can make booze with it, why not fuel?

Strum come on now you know that tater juice will get ya through times of no gas better than gas will get ya through times of no tater juice.Sumi:D

[ted s]

$ 0.90/litre Can$ here today, about $4/gal US a guess.
It hasn't been this low in over a year I think. WTF ?

[djmcconnell]

Under $2.00 per gallon at some stations in the Twin Cities! Just in time for the U.S. elections. Coincidence?

[duhvoodooman]

Under $2.00 per gallon at some stations in the Twin Cities! Just in time for the U.S. elections. Coincidence?
Sure makes ya wonder, doesn't it? I'd comment further, but it would most definitely cross the line into political commentary, and we don't do that here (not much, anyway).

[marnold]

Under $2.00 per gallon at some stations in the Twin Cities! Just in time for the U.S. elections. Coincidence?
Not when Economics 101 is taken into consideration. I really don't understand the logic behind that "assumption" anyway. Let's annihilate the American economy for nine months but if we drop the price for one month everything will be cool? I don't get it. There is a difference between correlation and causality. But I suppose a good conspiracy theory beats rationality any day of the week.

For what it's worth, it's down to $2.34 here in WI--saving me ~$100/month relative to prices 1.5 months ago. Whatever the reason for it, I'm not complaining.

[just strum]

Whatever the reason for it, I'm not complaining.

It's just the market, demand is down, market is unstable, and many sold there investment to cash in.

Conspiracy - why is the price for gas the cheapest at the gas station on the grassy knoll?

[ted s]

visiting myrtle beach, 2.18 here.

[Childbride]

last time i gassed up, i payed 1.97...

how this computes when it was nearly 4.00 a few months back?!?

o, i missed it on digg. they found the magical, mystical gas fairy.

my bad. :D

[player]

last time filled up around here it was 1.95.9 for regular but 2 or a tad over is still in most places..seems prices are selective in different areas in the country.sis up north still paying over 3

[warren0728]

$2.29 - regular and $2.39 - midgrade today when i filled up....

[Dreadman]

Hey all. Great thread. It's so nice to see so many people taking a real interest in our energy crisis and it's roots. We're seeing gas in the neighborhood of $3.50 in NH right now. I was in Albuquerque a few weeks ago and was shocked to pay $2.49 on an Indian reservation. Kudos to the native folks.

For those that don't know I work in the alternative side of energy and if no one minds I'd like to share some insight. For this discussion let's lump petroleum products and electricity into one thing and call it energy. Cars can run on either, homes can be heated with either, etc..... It's interchangeable.

As we all know there's a limit to how much oil is left on this planet (30-60 years worth..... maybe) and in the past few years everyone and their mother is scrambling to come up with the best alternative. Biofuel from soybeans and algae and corn, ethanol from grain, hydrogen, solar, wind, tide... you name it. The problem is that those people are hoping to become very wealthy so they tend to leave out the hidden costs. Some examples are:

Water - To get 1 gallon of fuel by conventional oil refining it takes 2.5 gallons of water for processing. That same gallon of biofuel made from soybeans takes 6500 gallons of water for irrigation and irrigating corn for that same gallon of biofuel takes about 980 gallons of water. Grain ethanol takes 3-7 gallons. All good ideas but we can't spare the fresh water. We're just about at capacity now. Additionally, there isn't enough farmable land in the world to grow all that would be needed. In other words, goodbye food. The current small scale biofuel from corn operations are already causing a food crisis in Mexico where corn is a staple.

Solar is good too but to meet our current need the planet would be covered with solar panels. Goodbye visible sunlight (and plant life).

Wind and tide - Also good but again, to meet our need there'd be so many wind turbines and ocean current turbines that it would likely interfere with the rotation of the earth and devastate the ocean currents (both by drag). I'm not sure humans can evolve quickly enough to adapt to a completely new planetary environment overnight.

Hydrogen technology still looks pretty good. Hydrogen is hugely abundant on earth and it's by product of use is water (which contains hydrogen). Sweet deal, but some electricity is necessary to produce it (from water) and we don't yet have the technology to produce that electricity efficiently enough to make it worthwhile.

Electric cars are definitely a step in the right direction but to become mainstream better batteries are required. Lithium-ion batteries are the obvious choice but alas, there's not likely enough lithium on the good ol' Earth to meet the need.

Am I depressing you yet? I hope so because that's the point. The bottom line is that we're just using more energy than the planet can support. It's like we've maxed out our credit cards and we're applying for yet more cards to continue living. It's a losing proposition.

Anyone here see the solution yet? It's pretty simple, think about it.



USE LESS ENERGY!!!!!
The scientists, engineers and smart folk of all kinds will probably find a way to replace petroleum but barring a miracle the Earth just doesn't have the resources to keep up with the amount of energy we use.

What can you do to save mankind? Well I'll tell ya:


Drive the most fuel efficient vehicle that will meet your transportation needs. Cool people ride motorcycles. Super cool people ride scooters. Unbelievably cool people ride bicycles. Your dorky enemy drives big trucks/SUV's with no passengers or cargo.

Convert your car (or a dead one from the junkyard) to electric power (that's my bread and butter - if you're interested ask me)

I love to drive too but we've got to cut out the joy rides. Get on your bicycle instead (this is also a good solution to the fat-*** crisis :D ).

Oppose war loudly and with a passion. NOTHING we do uses more energy than war. NOTHING. If your local politicians support war gather your friends, march down to their offices, drag them out to the street by their ears and tell them they're fired. If they keep talking about the need for war cut their tongues out. I promise they won't say anything else you don't like. :rockon:

Turn off lights/appliances when you're not using them. Everyone, every light, every time. It adds up incredibly.

Teach your kids that if they leave things on when they're not using them they'll be eating raw meat in the dark and cold when they grow up. Tell them that when they're teenagers they'll be making out on wooden bicycles instead of in Camaro's (electric powered Camaro's that is :D ).

Learn to despise incandescent lights (they're not your friend). Compact fluorescent bulbs use 1/4 - 1/3 of the energy and function every bit as well - for YEARS!

Put all the components of your home entertainment center on a power strip and shut it off when you're not using it. Your TV, cable box, VCR and stereo are using more electricity than a 100 watt light bulb when they're OFF, 24 hours a day. I know, I didn't believe it either until I bought a Kill-A-Watt electricity usage meter.

If you get down to Texas slap George Bush. It probably won't save much energy but it'll sure make you feel good and he's got it coming anyway.

You do shut your computer off at night don't ya? And the monitor when you walk away from it? At least learn about the energy saving features built right into Windows.

Everything is energy - don't waste any of it. Didn't finish your cheeseburger? Put it in the fridge instead of the trash. And while you're in there turn up the fridge/freezer temps a bit. Do this once a day until your ice cream melts then turn it back down a smidge.

Whenever you can, set your car GPS to "shortest distance" instead of "fastest time".

Change the filters in your furnace often and keep the temperature as low as is comfortable. If your kids leave the door open in the winter lock them in the closet until spring.

Make love to your wife by candlelight instead of Jay Leno. :D

Throw out those old, inefficient tube amps and go with a nice eco-friendly solid state unit. LOL I'm kiddin! Stop throwin' stuff at me!

Hound and harass your friends, family, co-workers and neighbors until they follow suit. If you're not the harassing type print this out and slip it in their mailboxes when they're asleep.


I didn't realize I'd be going on so long with this. If the management feels that it's too much for this thread I'm cool with it being re-located.

[street music]

The refinery is just 51 mile from my house and our current price is $2.25 a gallon, in Lexington the price has dropped to $1.89 gallon and they are fwice as far away.

[Glacies]

Slight bias, but to add to Dreadman's post, I have temporarily switched departments in my company and am working on nuclear energy project. I think nuke plants are definately the wave of the future.

For those that are scared of the radiation, if we were to dump all of the nuclear waste we have right now into the oceans, it would barely raise the natural radiation level a percent.

I'm not advocating we do that, just mentioning that there has been a lot of bad thoughts about what nuclear power does to the planet, and by far it is the cleanest and most efficient, job creating energy source we have.

(plus I say we toss all the nuclear waste into the sun but nobody likes that idea)


BTW gas is 2.09 here and I'm scared if I go right now it will drop another 10 cents by lunch time.

[Spudman]

Great post Dreadman.

Use less makes a lot of sense but so does having less people that demand energy. If the population of the world wasn't so high then there would certainly be less consumption and demand and that is really what it is all about - using less. I know we can't change the world population right away so some of your suggestions make a lot of sense.

I'm currently working on a squirrel powered electric generator so I can still play my electric guitar. Oh, I'm all for providing jobs for squirrels. There are plenty of them and if they aren't working then they are nothing but trouble. Besides they have families to take care of too.;)

Gas where I live hasn't gone below $2.50 yet.

[just strum]

Slight bias, but to add to Dreadman's post, I have temporarily switched departments in my company and am working on nuclear energy project. I think nuke plants are definately the wave of the future.

For those that are scared of the radiation, if we were to dump all of the nuclear waste we have right now into the oceans, it would barely raise the natural radiation level a percent.

I'm not advocating we do that, just mentioning that there has been a lot of bad thoughts about what nuclear power does to the planet, and by far it is the cleanest and most efficient, job creating energy source we have.

(plus I say we toss all the nuclear waste into the sun but nobody likes that idea)


BTW gas is 2.09 here and I'm scared if I go right now it will drop another 10 cents by lunch time.

What a glowing comment.:poke:

Gas is $1.95

Oh, and hello Dreadman you old goat.

[sunvalleylaw]

Slight bias, but to add to Dreadman's post, I have temporarily switched departments in my company and am working on nuclear energy project. I think nuke plants are definately the wave of the future.

For those that are scared of the radiation, if we were to dump all of the nuclear waste we have right now into the oceans, it would barely raise the natural radiation level a percent.

I'm not advocating we do that, just mentioning that there has been a lot of bad thoughts about what nuclear power does to the planet, and by far it is the cleanest and most efficient, job creating energy source we have.

(plus I say we toss all the nuclear waste into the sun but nobody likes that idea)


BTW gas is 2.09 here and I'm scared if I go right now it will drop another 10 cents by lunch time.

Glacies, I see your point, but out in the middle of Idaho, improperly disposed of waste is leaking down towards one of the west's largest watersheds that feeds a lot of irrigation for agriculture, and I believe it is already occurring up at Hanford on the Columbia in eastern Washington. So two of the West's largest river basins are being, or are at risk of, contamination from waste. Nuclear seems to be part of the solution, but the powers that be have to do a better job than in the past.

I think advancements in solar and wind are important too. The storage issue seems to be the biggest barrier, from what I can tell.

I see this as a scientific and not political discussion, but if the other mods disagree, I will certainly take down my post.

[Glacies]

Glacies, I see your point, but out in the middle of Idaho, improperly disposed of waste is leaking down towards one of the west's largest watersheds that feeds a lot of irrigation for agriculture, and I believe it is already occurring up at Hanford on the Columbia in eastern Washington. So two of the West's largest river basins are being, or are at risk of, contamination from waste. Nuclear seems to be part of the solution, but the powers that be have to do a better job than in the past.

I think advancements in solar and wind are important too. The storage issue seems to be the biggest barrier, from what I can tell.

I see this as a scientific and not political discussion, but if the other mods disagree, I will certainly take down my post.

Ouch, that's not the Pantax area is it? I certainly agree we have to do a better job of dealing with the waste than that. How did that happen?

[Dreadman]

Good point Glacies. I left out nuclear intentionally because it's such a big issue on it's own. I do have a couple cents on that though and I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts on it.

Nuclear is great. Huge amounts of clean energy for relatively low cost, but with the one huge caveat.... the waste. How long is is dangerous to humans, a gazillion years or something? I know a lot of effort goes into safe storage but from where I sit storage isn't enough. I haven't heard about the leakage in Idaho (thanks Sunvalley) but that's exactly my concern. That and future archaeologists stumbling across it. My proposition there is that it be federally mandated that ALL profits from nuclear energy (and maybe some federal dollars too) be allocated for research into this area until it's no longer a concern. I think if there's an interruption in profits that result will come sooner. Any thoughts? Enlighten me.

[Dreadman]

Oh, and good to see you too Strummy - ya old corn smuggler. :D

[Spudman]

Ouch, that's not the Pantax area is it? I certainly agree we have to do a better job of dealing with the waste than that. How did that happen?
The National Engineering Laboratory buried waste in the porous aquifer decades ago and now it's found in ground water supplies many miles south of the area. Some of the waste can't even be located as the records are lost (supposedly). That's why Sunvalley and I agree that the storage issue really needs addressing.

I have no idea what our gas costs today.

[sunvalleylaw]

Ouch, that's not the Pantax area is it? I certainly agree we have to do a better job of dealing with the waste than that. How did that happen?

INEEL, or now the Idaho Nation Laboratory. It is near Arco, Idaho, and between the Sun Valley area and Idaho Falls and Pocatello, etc. on the eastern side of the state. Basically, it is in the desert and Snake River Plain, south of the central Idaho mountains. Waste was buried years ago during the Cold War. Here is a report that discusses the area: http://academic.emporia.edu/schulmem/hydro/TERM%20PROJECTS/Geller/Eastern%20Snake%20River%20Plain%20Aquifer.html

The Idaho Department of Environmental Quality recognizes and discusses the situation here. http://www.deq.state.id.us/

Click on the INL oversight link on the left to see the info. There was a big settlement for cleanup between Idaho and the Feds back in about '95 that has been in play ever since.

Here is a newspaper article from Salt Lake City discussing the cleanup; http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,595108902,00.html

Here is info on Hanford, in Washington State. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site#cite_note-44
It is an even bigger problem.

Basically, none of it indicates that those in charge have cleaned up the old messes, or have fully committed to doing so. Future waste could be handled better I suppose, but the history causes me to question the credibility of promises made.

[just strum]

...but with the one huge caveat.... the waste. How long is is dangerous to humans, a gazillion years or something? Any thoughts? Enlighten me.

I have already figured out how to dispose of the waste.

http://www.afghan-web.com/

Must be the remaining Republican in me.

[evenkeel]

Very interesting thread. Lots of good commentary and info.

Couple of things jump to mind
1. Dreads original post (good to see you again by the way) should be a clarion call to conserve. The recent down turn in gas prices should reinforce that call. The recent price drop was in large part because the oil speculators (short term pricing is all about speculation) had to respond to the drop in demand. Drive less, drive more efficiently, drive smaller cars and it has both a long term and a immediate effect.
2. Electric cars have a couple of concerns. What are we going to do with all the batteries when they start to go bad? Lead acid batteries are a ecological mess. Lithium ion, not a lot better. Another electric car concern is, 50% of our nations electricity comes from coal. Yeah we've got a bunch O' coal but.... So called clean coal is a bit of marketing hype.
3. As I see it we need both short term and long term solutions. In the short term the more alternatives to oil the better and CONSERVE!!!! Long term, well that's for people a LOT smarter than me.

[Dreadman]

2. Electric cars have a couple of concerns. What are we going to do with all the batteries when they start to go bad?

Nice to see you too Keel.

No worries at all with lead-acid batteries. They're almost entirely plastic and lead which are very easily recycled and made into new batteries (among other things of course). They're no good in landfills but these days it's nearly impossible to get one into a landfill.

[Dreadman]

Must be the remaining Republican in me.
Don't feel bad Strum, we've all had a little republican in us for 8 years now.....
He'll be taking it out soon though. :beer:

[just strum]

I paid a $1.87 today and as I was getting ready to pull away from the pump, they lowered it to $1.86. I asked if I could have my $0.17, but they said NO!!!

[Glacies]

INEEL, or now the Idaho Nation Laboratory. It is near Arco, Idaho, and between the Sun Valley area and Idaho Falls and Pocatello, etc. on the eastern side of the state. Basically, it is in the desert and Snake River Plain, south of the central Idaho mountains. Waste was buried years ago during the Cold War. Here is a report that discusses the area: http://academic.emporia.edu/schulmem/hydro/TERM%20PROJECTS/Geller/Eastern%20Snake%20River%20Plain%20Aquifer.html

The Idaho Department of Environmental Quality recognizes and discusses the situation here. http://www.deq.state.id.us/

Click on the INL oversight link on the left to see the info. There was a big settlement for cleanup between Idaho and the Feds back in about '95 that has been in play ever since.

Here is a newspaper article from Salt Lake City discussing the cleanup; http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,595108902,00.html

Here is info on Hanford, in Washington State. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site#cite_note-44
It is an even bigger problem.

Basically, none of it indicates that those in charge have cleaned up the old messes, or have fully committed to doing so. Future waste could be handled better I suppose, but the history causes me to question the credibility of promises made.

Damn....


I'm not sure I caught in those links who's waste it is (just skimmed them) but I'm not sure it's a commercial waste. That is a serious problem and I really hope they can get it figured out fast without anymore negative environmental impact.

What a mess.

We do have to really learn how to properly handle this stuff and it's a shame some of the past mistakes can stay with us for so long.

[just strum]

This weeks gas report from Northern Ohio - $1.75

Filled up and went out and got kerosene so I could work in the garage to put the plow on the tractor. We have snow heading this way and they were talking 4" to 6" here and a foot up by work (I hope I get this other job so I can stay the hell away from the snow belt).

[Gil Janus]

Central Vermont - $2.24.

[R_of_G]

It's down to $2.02 at some stations around here.

[Dreadman]

$2.29 Concord, NH
$1.89 Dallas, TX

[street music]

We finally are at 1.99 a gal, other parts of the state are around 1.85.

[player]

are you all ready for this? Saturday a family member filled up for 1,69.9 Sunday I filled up at the same place for 1,49.9 and it is predicted to go lower.almost getting back to the 80's or so it would seem

[oldguy]

St. Joseph and Kansas City MO, 1.49 a gal.
Independence, MO, $1.34.............:)

[just strum]

St. Joseph and Kansas City MO, 1.49 a gal.
Independence, MO, $1.34.............:)

Holy crap!!!

The best I've spotted around here is $1.699

If the US and the World is going to hell, it won't cost as much to drive there.

[just strum]

Well, now that gas is at about $1.50 to $1.60 per gallon an article in the local paper noted that sales of pick-ups and SUV are up and fuel efficient car sales are down when compared to May of this year.

Live and Learn - I guess not.

[R_of_G]

So has anybody else experienced the "cash only" prices advertised on the signs at their local gas stations? I find this both annoying and incredibly deceptive.

Basically, the way I look at it is that the price should be the price however one is paying for it. I understand that there are "merchant fees" for businesses that accept credit or debit cards, but my answer to that is either don't accept them, or just live with it like anybody else in any other business has to.

Can anyone tell me another industry where there is more than one price depending on the method of payment? I'm not saying there isn't, only that I've not experienced it. I went grocery shopping this morning and wasn't asked how I was paying before I was told the total price. We ordered a pizza last night and weren't asked how we were paying before being given a total. It should be no different for gas stations. I see it as a form of bait and switch.

[Spudman]

We were at $1.39 for a couple of days and now the same stations are at $1.47. Hmmm.

[just strum]

We were at $1.39 for a couple of days and now the same stations are at $1.47. Hmmm.

It's strange how that works and I've yet to hear a real defining reason for it.

Example of price change and variance.

for the past two weeks or more the stations in the center of town (usually running a couple cents more than the stations a little further away) were about $1.57 to $1.59, but the stations near work (40 miles north) were at $1.89 to $1.99. A couple of days ago the stations in town jumped up to $1.69, the stations near work went down to $1.63.

The best offer of the price variance that I heard is you are paying the price based on the last time the stations tanks are filled up, combined with what they anticipate they will pay on the next fill up. That is the only reason that seems to have some merit when it comes to the variance in price in the same region.

As for people starting to buy SUV's again, they must have short memories. Understandable if you need one (family size, work...), but other than that, I don't see the need for them today. The only other thing is the possible incentives being offered.

[Gil Janus]

Central Vermont - $2.24.
The above quote is from Nov 24th - it is now the 13th of December and gas is at $1.63 in Central Vermont.

That's a drop of 61 cents in just 20 days or 3 cents a day more or less.

Gil :cool:

[just strum]

The above quote is from Nov 24th - it is now the 13th of December and gas is at $1.63 in Central Vermont.

That's a drop of 61 cents in just 20 days or 3 cents a day more or less.

Gil :cool:

A couple of months ago they (media) was saying it could hit $5.00, the other day they were talking about $1.00 per gallon by early next year. The media and their ability to work up the public.

[peachhead]

I paid 1.45 the other night; I think that is about the best it's gotten around here.
I read the 1.00/gallon article and just shook my head.

[sumitomo]

The gas prices my be comming down but the cost of oil is still going up.I run a repair shop and it is 28 bucks for a case of quarts,26 two months before and 24 a few before that.Sumi:D