Volume Swells: Pedal or Volume control

[ZMAN]

I have been hearing some great guitar tones, that have been attributed to volume swells. I was wondering if they were achieved in the most part by a volume pedal or just the volume knob on the guitar. I have not seen anyone using this technique live so I would like your take on this.
I did a search on volume pedals but it seems the subject is still a little vague in most peoples minds.
If it is a pedal, I would like to hear your advice on the best pedal to get.
If the higher end ones are worth the extra expense then so be it.
I don't like the idea of a string running the effect like the Roland pedal.
This is for my home use so it won't get beat up, but it will have to be good quality.
I have heard Jeff Beck and Walter Trout to be specific, but I am sure a lot of other guitarist use them.

[duhvoodooman]

Volume swells, or "slurs" as they're often called, are generally played by rolling the guitar's volume control up and down, usually with the pinky finger. While you can do this with a volume pedal or swell effect like the old Boss SG-1 Slow Gear, I think most serious guitarists consider that approach "cheating". Besides, you can get finer control by hand.

Because of how this is done, it's easy with a Strat, not too difficult with a Tele, and damned hard with a Les Paul. Try it & you'll see what I mean.

If you'd like to see it done, here's a lesson done by guitarist extraordinaire Greg Koch, who is not only an excellent teacher but an extremely funny man. The lesson is based upon one of his own compositions called Tonus Diabolicus, and it's played using volume slurs for almost its entirety. After a verbal intro and demo of the tune, he shows how the volume slur is done starting around 3:30 into the clip:

4NO9raLftYQ

[markb]

The volumes control's very usable but if you want steel guitar effects I'd get a pedal. Your hands are going to be too busy picking, damping and bending to grab the guitar's volume control. The Ernie Ball pedals are highly recommended. The "string" in these is kevlar and they can be completely rebuilt, all spares are available from the website. They're quite a lump to carry around but are built for a lifetime's use.

[ZMAN]

I have been messiing around with a DD 20 Delay pedal and that is why I was asking. I see that most of the people who use this, are Strat Players. It is a technique I am willing to spend some time on. I might even put one of my guitars tremelo back in service to add another nuance. I like the idea of cheating with a pedal, and I am hoping to get some feedback on that type of volume swells/slurs.
Thanks for the vid. it was very helpfull.

[Katastrophe]

Delay + volume knob on guitar: Kp5nUNgiVRc

Also, Steve Morse has been known to use volume pedals to fade effects and amphs in and out, not just for swells.

A volume pedal is great for smooth swells, and it works regardless of the guitar you're playing. I used to love using my old rack setup with a very chorus-y sound, and fade in to that with my volume pedal. I had a Dunlop, and it worked well. It made for a very synth-ish tone.

[marnold]

I'd imagine that they'd be easy on a Strat, but the position of that knob so close to the bridge pickup is something I've always hated about Strats. Even the volume on my Charvel Model 7 was in an annoying place. Mine on my Fender and Floyd are close enough without being annoying. My EX-7 doubles as a volume pedal but I haven't used it for that much.

[frisellfan19]

I have been hearing some great guitar tones, that have been attributed to volume swells. I was wondering if they were achieved in the most part by a volume pedal or just the volume knob on the guitar. I have not seen anyone using this technique live so I would like your take on this.
I did a search on volume pedals but it seems the subject is still a little vague in most peoples minds.
If it is a pedal, I would like to hear your advice on the best pedal to get.
If the higher end ones are worth the extra expense then so be it.
I don't like the idea of a string running the effect like the Roland pedal.
This is for my home use so it won't get beat up, but it will have to be good quality.
I have heard Jeff Beck and Walter Trout to be specific, but I am sure a lot of other guitarist use them.




I'm somewhat an expert on volume pedals as I use them for expression. Those swelling effects are something that's apart of my sound.

I should say without hesitation that you don't want to use your guitar's volume knob when you can use a pedal to do it. You will wear out the pot inside the volume knob and it's just something that can be avoided. Plus, you will have more control with a volume pedal.

I should also mention before getting into talking about different companies that make the volume pedal, you should always put the volume pedal in front of everything. The volume pedal should be the first thing you plug your guitar into.

I have tried Ernie Ball and DeArmond, which are both considered to be excellent by other users, but I found that none of these pedals match the sound, control, and easy-of-use quite like a Morley, preferably an older model if you can find one. They are excellent quality. The best thing about them is they run off an AC adapter, so you don't have to worry about any inner parts wearing down. I know the Ernie Ball and DeArmond you have clean every so often, which is a pain.

You can't beat the sound of a Morley, especially an older model, and you can probably find them cheaper than you can an Ernie Ball and DeArmond. Sometimes something that's cheaper is just better.

Hope this helps.

[Andy]

I like the sound of using the guitars volume knob,to me it's smoother, more musical or violin-esque and you are using strickly the hands and not having to add more complexity(your foot) into the mix.

[markb]

I should also mention before getting into talking about different companies that make the volume pedal, you should always put the volume pedal in front of everything. The volume pedal should be the first thing you plug your guitar into.


Where you put the volume pedal is a creative choice. You can run it before overdrive to use it as a gain control or after for level control. Putting it at the end of the pedal chain allows you to use it as a master volume. The last choice is before or after delay. Before delay allows you to cut off the straight sound while keeping the delay trails to fade away naturally. I notice that a number of multieffect units give you at least some of these choices. Experimentation and practice will tell you what works best in your rig. As with all effect placement it's down to what sounds best for you.




I have tried Ernie Ball and DeArmond, which are both considered to be excellent by other users, but I found that none of these pedals match the sound, control, and easy-of-use quite like a Morley, preferably an older model if you can find one. They are excellent quality. The best thing about them is they run off an AC adapter, so you don't have to worry about any inner parts wearing down. I know the Ernie Ball and DeArmond you have clean every so often, which is a pain.


Not to knock the Morleys but Ernie Balls need no power, that's a major plus for me. They will need a new pot every few years but, as I said above, they're completely rebuildable. They also have a handy tuner socket for silent tuning though some say that this sucks tone.

[frisellfan19]

Where you put the volume pedal is a creative choice. You can run it before overdrive to use it as a gain control or after for level control. Putting it at the end of the pedal chain allows you to use it as a master volume. The last choice is before or after delay. Before delay allows you to cut off the straight sound while keeping the delay trails to fade away naturally. I notice that a number of multieffect units give you at least some of these choices. Experimentation and practice will tell you what works best in your rig. As with all effect placement it's down to what sounds best for you.

Not to knock the Morleys but Ernie Balls need no power, that's a major plus for me. They will need a new pot every few years but, as I said above, they're completely rebuildable. They also have a handy tuner socket for silent tuning though some say that this sucks tone.



Again, having to replace something is not my idea of a good pedal. I have owned Ernie Balls and still have one, but like I said, I like the fact that I do not have to do anything, but plug in an adapter. That's a whole heck of a lot easier than replacing a pot.

In terms of volume pedal placement, I like having it at the very beginning of the signal chain. That way I can do more of those delay swells, which sound so nice.

I should also add that the Morley volume pedal that I own is old. It's probably at least 20-25 years old. They just made things better back then.

[frisellfan19]

I like the sound of using the guitars volume knob,to me it's smoother, more musical or violin-esque and you are using strickly the hands and not having to add more complexity(your foot) into the mix.

If you can control a volume knob with your hand, then you can put your foot on a volume pedal. Nothing complex about it. Using a volume pedal keeps your hands free. I bet you $20 that I can move my foot faster than your hand over a volume knob and get a cleaner, smoother sound than you can.

I should also add that I've been using a volume pedal for many, many years, so maybe I'm just used to it.

[sumitomo]

Check out or listen to Roy Buchanan,he was great he could almost make the guitar talk with the tone control knob as well.Sumi:D

[frisellfan19]

Check out or listen to Roy Buchanan,he was great he could almost make the guitar talk with the tone control knob as well.Sumi:D


Well what works for some doesn't always work for others. I can make the guitar with volume pedal, so what's your point?

[Spudman]

Well what works for some doesn't always work for others. I can make the guitar with volume pedal, so what's your point?

I think the point is that you are coming off like an expert yet what you say is only your opinion. Please respect the opinions of others as it is what you seem to be asking of them.

[frisellfan19]

I think the point is that you are coming off like an expert yet what you say is only your opinion. Please respect the opinions of others as it is what you seem to be asking of them.

How am I not respecting somebody's opinion? I didn't say anything out of the way, I'm just saying that a volume pedal is just as good if not better than using a volume knob. So cool your heels, twinkle toes.

[Algonquin]

Wow... not typical of what you'd expect to read here on the Fret. :(

[Algonquin]

How am I not respecting somebody's opinion? I didn't say anything out of the way, I'm just saying that a volume pedal is just as good if not better than using a volume knob. So cool your heels, twinkle toes.
frisellfan19, as a new member... I have to stress to you that you should read the posting guidelines prior to any more posts. Spudman is a valued contributer and friend of all who enjoy the Fret.net. Please post responsibly... we all enjoy this friendly forum which so many have worked very hard to maintain. Please take a moment to read previoues post's so you can get a feel for it's vibe. A good start would be to introduce yourself in the 'Fret Players' section. This is a close knit community, and we care for it's members a great deal.

Regards,

[sunvalleylaw]

How am I not respecting somebody's opinion? I didn't say anything out of the way, I'm just saying that a volume pedal is just as good if not better than using a volume knob. So cool your heels, twinkle toes.

Sir, you are a new member here. Spudman is a moderator. I am not sure how you are used to conducting yourself on forums, but that sort of conduct will not fly here. It is a friendly place. Please back down, go ahead and introduce your self, and join the civil discussion of guitar related topics here.

[frisellfan19]

frisellfan19, as a new member... I have to stress to you that you should read the posting guidelines prior to any more posts. Spudman is a valued contributer and friend of all who enjoy the Fret.net. Please post responsibly... we all enjoy this friendly forum which so many have worked very hard to maintain. Please take a moment to read previoues post's so you can get a feel for it's vibe. A good start would be to introduce yourself in the 'Fret Players' section. This is a close knit community, and we care for it's members a great deal.

Regards,



I appreciate the introduction to the website, but I have been on many forums like these, so I'm aware of what correct conduct is, and I don't feel that I need to read the guidelines.

The bottomline is I respect people's opinions, but this also means that I can and will disagree with somebody if I don't agree with what they say.

Like for example, somebody said they thought working a volume pedal is complex. I simply stated they were wrong. It's not that hard at all. I don't think there's any need for people to get so uptight about something that isn't meant out of disrespect, but merely to correct the person in saying that a volume pedal isn't difficult to work and doesn't require that much cordination.

[hubberjub]

I use a Morley Little Alligator volume pedal. It is active. I like it because it doesn't cut off the high end when you back it off like passive volume pedals do. It is strictly subjective. That's just what I like.

[frisellfan19]

Sir, you are a new member here. Spudman is a moderator. I am not sure how you are used to conducting yourself on forums, but that sort of conduct will not fly here. It is a friendly place. Please back down, go ahead and introduce your self, and join the civil discussion of guitar related topics here.


I know how to conduct myself and you need to calm down, because I'm a member just like you are.

I don't have to go introduce myself, that isn't interesting to me. What is interesting is talking about guitar gear.

I'm as civil as they come and I don't feel any need to back down from anything, because I'm not breaking any code of conduct.

[frisellfan19]

I use a Morley Little Alligator volume pedal. It is active. I like it because it doesn't cut off the high end when you back it off like passive volume pedals do. It is strictly subjective. That's just what I like.

I haven't tried the Little Alligator. Like I mentioned earlier, I use a very old Morley volume pedal and this thing is great. It's so smooth.

[wingsdad]

The Strat and Tele were developed with the input of Southern California 'Country & Western' guitar players. Their volume controls were intentionally placed just below the bridge by design so a player could hook their pinky around the knob to do volume swells for pedal steel type licks. Also, both the original designs had the long ago discarded 'ashtray' bridge covers, and they were another functional design element: to rest the side of the hand on, anchored, in positon to hook that pinky.

I've always used the volume controls on Strats and Teles, because learning to play in the early 60's, I actually was taught that technique. But for my Rick 12, LP or 335 type guitars, the knobs aren't so strategically placed; these weren't designed with Country pickers in mind like the Strat & Tele. For these, I still use my Goodrich 400A AC-powered photocell Volume pedal, actually at one time a top choice for pedal steelers because the photocell is so smooth and precise in controlling the volume, and has absolutely no impact on tone (actually a flashlight bulb, with the light shining through an aperture, the size regulated by the pedal opening or closing a cover) . In fact, that's why I have it: I got it when I attempted to learn pedal steel in the 70's. Someday, it's gonna crap out. The Volume pedal function of my Boss ME-50 is just too 'tight' by comparison.

[sunvalleylaw]

I know how to conduct myself and you need to calm down, because I'm a member just like you are.

I don't have to go introduce myself, that isn't interesting to me. What is interesting is talking about guitar gear.

I'm as civil as they come and I don't feel any need to back down from anything, because I'm not breaking any code of conduct.

Sir, I suggest you go read the FAQ section regarding forum conduct. Two moderators have given you direction on how those rules are viewed here. Please re-read those rules and adjust your posts accordingly.

[Algonquin]

I know how to conduct myself and you need to calm down, because I'm a member just like you are.

I don't have to go introduce myself, that isn't interesting to me. What is interesting is talking about guitar gear.

I'm as civil as they come and I don't feel any need to back down from anything, because I'm not breaking any code of conduct.

Well... best of luck to you then. Hopefully you will you find a forum that conforms to your rules and regulations.

[frisellfan19]

Sir, I suggest you go read the FAQ section regarding forum conduct. Two moderators have given you direction on how those rules are viewed here. Please re-read those rules and adjust your posts accordingly.


I suggest you get off my back, because I'm not doing anything against the code of conduct.

I just want to talk about guitar. As long as I'm respectful, I don't see the need in doing anything except for enjoying conversations with people.

I don't want to go introduce myself, because I don't feel the need to do so.

[frisellfan19]

The Strat and Tele were developed with the input of Southern California 'Country & Western' guitar players. Their volume controls were intentionally placed just below the bridge by design so a player could hook their pinky around the knob to do volume swells for pedal steel type licks. Also, both the original designs had the long ago discarded 'ashtray' bridge covers, and they were another functional design element: to rest the side of the hand on, anchored, in positon to hook that pinky.

I've always used the volume controls on Strats and Teles, because learning to play in the early 60's, I actually was taught that technique. But for my Rick 12, LP or 335 type guitars, the knobs aren't so strategically placed; these weren't designed with Country pickers in mind like the Strat & Tele. For these, I still use my Goodrich 400A AC-powered photocell Volume pedal, actually at one time a top choice for pedal steelers because the photocell is so smooth and precise in controlling the volume, and has absolutely no impact on tone (actually a flashlight bulb, with the light shining through an aperture, the size regulated by the pedal opening or closing a cover) . In fact, that's why I have it: I got it when I attempted to learn pedal steel in the 70's. Someday, it's gonna crap out. The Volume pedal function of my Boss ME-50 is just too 'tight' by comparison.



That's why I use an old AC-powered Morley, because it's very flexible.

[markb]

Yep, strat players once all looked like this

http://www.fender.com/billcarson/images/bill_carson_1.jpg

[Duff]

You do seem to have a "tone", regardless of your politeness.

This is probably the best guitar forum I've been on and people here are close, real close.

You should listen to what they are saying and you will be welcomed completely.

Reading the FAQs and intro'ing yourself would be cool dude. We want to know about you.

I didn't introduce myself for years, like a fool, by then everybody knew more about me than I do myself.

I like your idea about using a volume pedal.


I grew up around Leslie rotating speakers and they kind of give that up and down volume thing and I like them set to rotate real slow.

I bought a nice Boss tremolo pedal that I can set to do that swell type thing nice and slow, and some of my multipedals have rotary speaker simulations that I can adjust real slow. I like that sound, it's almost like some of them tube amps that seem to swell up and down slowly. I think it is a cool thing and you can fit it into some of your grooves. The pedal sounds more versitile and I'd like to try that method but it might not be that easy for me, but being a drummer I think I can handle it.

Like Bob Seeger says dude, it's like you got a "fire inside". Mellow down easy man and you'll like this place. It's not a hard hitting type of site, although some of the ideas hit pretty hard and get you to think and make progress in your music, that's for sure.

You make more friends with honey than you do vinegar.

Stay or leave dude. But we like new ideas and methods to do things. We can probably learn from you and you can probably learn from us. Just give us a chance to help you understand where you are and encourage you to get into our groove. Maybe "it ain't easy" for you, as Ringo would say; but maybe the volume pedal ain't easy for someone else as it is for you.

We are cool and you have been given a lot more chances already than most forums would have given you, once you reared up and started thrashing around. We don't want to break any fences around here. Reign yourself in dude. It's not all that serious around here. A lot of super experts reserve themselves around here and don't make you feel like beginners, which a lot of us are, as well as intermediates; but there are plenty of pro's here that know how to treat us with respect and nourish our development without beating us about the head and shoulders, kicking around muleishly, or otherwise bucking the smooth flow of the stream of things.

You probably don't even see how you are coming off. Accept some little, mild criticism, you'll be better for it. Or move on down the trail dude. You might have one more chance.

Duffy

[ZMAN]

Well well I guess I stirred up a hornets nest. I was trying to get some feedback as to what was out there to get the volume swells. I am totally new to this technique and I split my playing between Gibson and Fender and I really can't pull this off with an LP. I also find it hard to do even with a Strat. I was leaning toward the pedal aspect and I have alway had a Wah pedal, and I can use them quite well. So I think the transition to a volume or expression pedal would be much easier. I have a friend who has a very old morley pedal that is AC as well and I am not sure if it is a wah or an expression pedal. I seem to remember it being a dual function unit.
If there is anything out there that is even close to this I will be interested.
Thanks for all the input guys and remember to keep your self esteem, and that of others. That is why I come to this forum. No edges here!

[Spudman]

Zman
It's tough sometimes on a 4 knob guitar like a Les Paul to do the swell but it's not impossible. Zach Wylde and Neal Schon both do it. On a Strat or Tele it's much easier and a lot of other manufacturers are putting the volume close enough to the bridge to do that. If you use the pedal you can do it with all guitars no matter what but the trade off is that you have something else to plug in and taking space on the floor in front of you. There will be considerably less room for the classic car magazine centerfolds.:D

[oldguy]

I've tried doing volume swells both ways. I say "tried" because I'm not very smooth w/ it either way. I do prefer using the guitar's volume knob on Strats and Teles because, as Spud pointed out, it's easier than Les Paul type guitars w/ 2 volume knobs. I like having the option of a volume pedal too, and experimenting with both. Practicing the technique with each may help you find what works best for you. Good luck,ZMAN :D

[Andy]

This is the biggest reason I like the sound of a volume knob.

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