Kit Champ Vs Current Small Amps

[Ch0jin]

Hi Gang,
I'm looking for a small tube amp to drag around the place to jam with mates as my 60W Peavy Combo, whilst being the most effective tube amp at low volume I've ever used, is still freakin heavy and large. My homemade JCM800 head and 4x12 quad are -clearly- too heavy duty for an apartment jam session too.

Right now I imagine many of you groaning "jeeeez, not this Valve Jr Vs Blackheart Vs Champ600 re-issue thread again"

Well no.

I wanted an EVJ combo for a number of reasons, but I really hate the way they look. (and yes I'm aware that makes me hideously pretentious) so I had the grand idea of finding a replica tweed champ cabinet and grafting the EVJ bits into it. In my search for cabinets I found this...

http://www.stf-electronics.com/index.html

Have a gander at the Combo Super Champ kit for $500, or go to the main catlogue, you can have the original champ circuit in kit form for the same dollars (even after upgrading caps and cloth wire etc).

The site is horrible and full of spelling errors and so forth, but those champ kits really look the business.

So firstly, anyone know of this guy, and if so, should I be considering dealing with him? He's based in the USA so maybe one of you guys has heard of him.

Secondly, and I guess I'm talking to you amp builders or vintage champ owners, given I'm competent in electronic construction so assembly ain't an issue, am I insane thinking that something like either the straight up champ kit or the tweaked "super champ" are going to give me tone to rival the modern repro's with PCB's and SS recto's and mass production assembly techniques?

I mean it's got all the boutique bits amp builders drool over. Point to point wiring with eyelet board (no nasty PCB's) tube recto, top notch parts, and that cabinet is just sooooooooo gorgeous. Add a few types of tubes to the order and you've got a tweakers dream machine.

Unless someone tells me it's all a scam I'm going to email him and ask for more information (can he supply 240VAC primary PT for starters).

(oh and I do realise that given the current exchange rate and shipping etc $500USD works out to be substantially more than a $299AUD Evj, but hey. It looks like a Fender :)

[tunghaichuan]

Before making a decision, you might check out this site:

http://www.ceriatone.com/index.htm

They have a tweed Champ clone, and shipping *might* be more reasonable than from the States.

tung



Hi Gang,
I'm looking for a small tube amp to drag around the place to jam with mates as my 60W Peavy Combo, whilst being the most effective tube amp at low volume I've ever used, is still freakin heavy and large. My homemade JCM800 head and 4x12 quad are -clearly- too heavy duty for an apartment jam session too.

Right now I imagine many of you groaning "jeeeez, not this Valve Jr Vs Blackheart Vs Champ600 re-issue thread again"

Well no.

I wanted an EVJ combo for a number of reasons, but I really hate the way they look. (and yes I'm aware that makes me hideously pretentious) so I had the grand idea of finding a replica tweed champ cabinet and grafting the EVJ bits into it. In my search for cabinets I found this...

http://www.stf-electronics.com/index.html

Have a gander at the Combo Super Champ kit for $500, or go to the main catlogue, you can have the original champ circuit in kit form for the same dollars (even after upgrading caps and cloth wire etc).

The site is horrible and full of spelling errors and so forth, but those champ kits really look the business.

So firstly, anyone know of this guy, and if so, should I be considering dealing with him? He's based in the USA so maybe one of you guys has heard of him.

Secondly, and I guess I'm talking to you amp builders or vintage champ owners, given I'm competent in electronic construction so assembly ain't an issue, am I insane thinking that something like either the straight up champ kit or the tweaked "super champ" are going to give me tone to rival the modern repro's with PCB's and SS recto's and mass production assembly techniques?

I mean it's got all the boutique bits amp builders drool over. Point to point wiring with eyelet board (no nasty PCB's) tube recto, top notch parts, and that cabinet is just sooooooooo gorgeous. Add a few types of tubes to the order and you've got a tweakers dream machine.

Unless someone tells me it's all a scam I'm going to email him and ask for more information (can he supply 240VAC primary PT for starters).

(oh and I do realise that given the current exchange rate and shipping etc $500USD works out to be substantially more than a $299AUD Evj, but hey. It looks like a Fender :)

[Ch0jin]

Thanks Tung,
Actually Ceriatone was my first stop, and probably my first choice because I've never heard a bad thing about him. However the chassis he has pics of for the 5F1 look nothing like the Fender layout, so I have grave doubts about me being able to use one of his amps in the all important tweed repro cabinet I anticipate this project will live in. After all, it was looking at these..

http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/item.asp?pid=17399&pg=44972&id=4000100 (note I've seen these cabs for cheaper on ebay, there's one there now for $100)

....that got me hungering for a champ as my little jamming combo. Fender should have done the new champ 600 in a tweed cab like the Blues Juniors Limited Editions I reckon.

Anyway I shot Nik an email with a few questions along those lines. I'll let you know how I go. I love, LOVE the fact his version has a 4-8-16Ohm switch for an external cab though. (My 1960's era 4x12 cab is 16 Ohms)

[Ch0jin]

update.. Just heard back from Nik at Ceriatone and sadly his champ is in a totally different chassis so I cant use it in a repro 5F1. Bummer :(

If I was gigging I'd head back to his site though. His "big" amps do fit in repro cabs and the Plexi's look especially sexy.

Just found these guys..
http://www.retrosound.com.au

They are Australian (bonus) although I assume they source from the same places the rest do, so as most of their site is down for updates I shot them an email asking about 5F1 kits, and importantly, pricing.

[Ch0jin]

More updates...

After a night of web scouring I've discovered (based on the opinions of others) That as far as 5F1 kits go, the place to get good quality ones is either from Mojo http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/item.asp?pid=10123&pg=44991&id=5550001EX or Marsh Amps http://www.marshamps.com/

Problem is, with the AUD-USD exchange rate in the toilet as it is right now, I'd be looking at close to $820AUD for a kit and then add up to $100 or more for postage and so on. Lets call it $1KAUD. For a point of reference, the EVJ is $249AUD RRP (so it can be had cheaper).

Therefore, a 5F1 Champ replica, even though I'd have to assemble it myself, is going to cost more than FOUR times what a EVJ costs.....

I suspect the Champ is unlikely to sound four times better somehow.

I was looking at a youtube last night of a guy playing through an OCD-delay-EVJ dimed (stock with JJ tubes) with weber MASS (mini or micro, I cant recall) and it sounded unbelievable. Not the blues tone I'm after, but hooooly dooooly it was sweet. I'd link you guys up but youtube is blocked at work. If you're curious (and trust me it's worth a look) the guys name is Shenker69 I think. One of my fav youtube guitarists actually. If you get bored with his EVJ vids, watch his plexi ones....woah baby.

So..

I've heard good things about the OCD pedal. I might have to figure out what it's based on and try to build one or *gasp* buy one. ;) The Weber Micro Mass is only $70USD so by my estimations, I could buy an EVJ+OCD pedal+MicroMASS and still have money left over for a Classic Vibe Tele (assuming they ever come to Australia) and new hardware for my ailing strat!

I think I've made up my mind....(but you never know)

[tunghaichuan]

One thing you might consider is buying a Valve Junior and either modding it, or gutting it and doing a complete rebuild.

You might consider getting a turret board from this company:

http://www.turretboards.com/valve_junior_page.htm

This layout is supposed to sound like a 5F1 champ:

http://www.turretboards.com/vjr/vjr_layout_main_fenderish.pdf

You also might be able to reconfigure the board to use the 6CM6 which is a 9-pin mini version of the 6V6 with slightly lower ratings. It uses the same socket as the EL84 but has a different pinout.

Another thing you could do would be to have Ken make you a board with a 5/8" hole for a 7-pin mini socket so you could use the 6AQ5 which is another tube like the 6V6 but with lower ratings like the 6CM6.

From personal experience, the 6AQ5 is sort of like a cross between the 6V6 and the EL84. It is brighter like an EL84, but has the same gain characteristics of a 6V6.

tung

[Ch0jin]

Haha Tung it's disturbing how "on the same page" we are.

Over my morning coffee in the office I was browsing the websites of the various people who make turret boards for the VJ :)

I'm expecting to get my guitar back from service this weekend so I'll call the store in advance and make sure they have a Rev3 VJ combo there to try out. I've read the Rev3 Combo's are far superior to the previous versions with hum removed, proper impedance OT, 4/8/16 switching and "better" tubes. so who knows, maybe I'll like it stock (at least for a day or so....)

I think a vital part of the equation is an attenuator though and I'll order one of those from weber if/when i grab the amp. (I'm a little afraid that if the Weber Micro MASS -is- as cool as I've read/seen on youtube with the EVJ, I'll end up having to buy it's big brother for my 50W 2204 and 60W Peavey Ultra. I've been wanting to rip the Peavey apart and re-tube her for ages, but as I can't crank it in my apartment it was always kind of a waste. Now if I can use an attenuator and get those twin 6L6's (currently Sovteks) steaming it might be worth grabbing some really "toneful" tubes for it too....

Gosh it never ends does it...

Update: I just went over the turretboard site. Wow! I mean, I'm not sure that going from the Version 3 PCB to a turret board arrangement is going to sound better, but the cool factor goes up a long way! (Also makes it loads easier to mod further)

[tunghaichuan]

Haha Tung it's disturbing how "on the same page" we are.


:D



Over my morning coffee in the office I was browsing the websites of the various people who make turret boards for the VJ :)

I'm expecting to get my guitar back from service this weekend so I'll call the store in advance and make sure they have a Rev3 VJ combo there to try out. I've read the Rev3 Combo's are far superior to the previous versions with hum removed, proper impedance OT, 4/8/16 switching and "better" tubes. so who knows, maybe I'll like it stock (at least for a day or so....)


I own 4 of the Rev 3 heads. They are much improved tonally over the the Rev 2 amps. There are still a couple of tweaks that you can do to make them sound better, especially if you want to crank it into an attenuator.

The main differences are a better OT in the Rev 3 amps and a sturdier PCB. Those Rev 2 green PCBs sucked big time.



I think a vital part of the equation is an attenuator though and I'll order one of those from weber if/when i grab the amp. (I'm a little afraid that if the Weber Micro MASS -is- as cool as I've read/seen on youtube with the EVJ, I'll end up having to buy it's big brother for my 50W 2204 and 60W Peavey Ultra. I've been wanting to rip the Peavey apart and re-tube her for ages, but as I can't crank it in my apartment it was always kind of a waste. Now if I can use an attenuator and get those twin 6L6's (currently Sovteks) steaming it might be worth grabbing some really "toneful" tubes for it too....


If you get the larger Mass, you can use it with the VJ. It may sound different than a MicroMass, but at least you don't have to buy two of them.



Gosh it never ends does it...


Nope, sure doesn't. There is always something cool to buy. :D



Update: I just went over the turretboard site. Wow! I mean, I'm not sure that going from the Version 3 PCB to a turret board arrangement is going to sound better, but the cool factor goes up a long way! (Also makes it loads easier to mod further)

Here's what I did with one of those Turretboards.com boards:

http://www.diycustomamps.com/valvejunior.htm#vjrebuild

You don't have to go as near as far as I did with the mod, but adding a turret board does make the coolness factor go way up. Also, that OT was way overkill for the circuit, but it did sound very good.

tung

[Ch0jin]

Thanks again.

I had read about using a larger MASS (namely a 100W version as my other amps are all at least 50W) on the VJ and IIRC it didn't work so well. I'll keep looking though as that's obviously the more economical solution.

That turret site though has got me thinking about rebuilding this...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ch0jin/2256706299/in/photostream/

This was my "teach your self to make a tube amp" project I started like 13 years ago. It's a total mess as you might expect for a figure it out as you go kind project. It works just fine, but over the years I've worked out just how valuable that head would have been if I'd restored it when I found it (and the matching 4x12 cab which I've thankfully never modified) instead of ripping it all apart and drilling holes and generally defiling it.

That head was a 1963-(ish) Vase Bassman. Hand made in Australia using (by the few accounts I can find) premium quality iron and components. These things, if you can find them, trade for almost vintage US and UK amp prices. Ooops :(

Anyway, finding all these amazing resources for parts and info online has got me thinking I might gut it again and rebuild it properly. I've had no luck finding a circuit for the original, but it might make a good host for an old Marshall Circuit (thats whats in there now, but built properly) or Fender.

[cobalt]

After reading through all these intense threads. I now want to build my own amp. I think that I would be leaning toward rebuilding a EVJ. adding gain and town and stby that's just off the top of my head.

[tunghaichuan]

After reading through all these intense threads. I now want to build my own amp. I think that I would be leaning toward rebuilding a EVJ. adding gain and town and stby that's just off the top of my head.

Having worked on a few VJ amps, I'd suggest that when you do the mods, do them one at a time. That way if something doesn't work, you don't have to guess which mod is preventing the amp from working. Especially if you've done several in a row.

Modding VJ amps can be fun, but it cal also be very frustrating if you can't get it to work right and have no idea why it isn't working.

When you get ready to start your mods, post here and there are a few of us that can help you.

tung