How do you feel about "relic" guitars?

[Fab4]

My local boutique guitar store - http://wildwoodguitars.com/new/ - does a booming business in brand new, high-end Fender and Gibson guitars that have been "relic-ed" to look old, worn and beat up. This all started when Fender wanted to reintroduce classic nitro finishes, but knew they'd be too fragile to hold up under warranty. So, they put nicks, dings, scratches and wear marks on them and sold them as "relics." Now, Fender offers NOS (New Old Stock, unaged, which I prefer) and Closet Classic variations.

I think the re-creation guitars, made to look and feel exactly like a star's main axe, are interesting. At least, you get some insight into how they've used and abused their favorite instrument. But the idea of buying a new guitar that has been made to look artificially old really bugs me.

With a "real" old guitar, you're buying the instrument's mojo and history. With a "relic" guitar, you're paying extra for what amounts to fake mojo, in my opinion. Personally, I want a new guitar to look new, then I can watch it take on a patina of age that reflects MY history with it. To that end, I paid an up-charge to Gibson to have them NOT age my custom-color Les Paul.

I realize there are some playability and sonic differences with, say, a worn in neck or aged pickups. But I also think there are more fraud possibilities, where an unsuspecting buyers pay top dollar for what they think are "real vintage" guitars.

But that's just me. Clearly a lot of high-end buyers disagree. Where do you stand?

[Glacies]

I don't like anything that has been "fake-aged" - that goes for hats, jeans, and guitars.

To me that's like cutting your own face up becuase you like the look of scars.

[oldguy]

I can't see paying extra..........
If you find a bargain on a neck/body/etc. that's been worn naturally, that's different.

[Robert]

I think it's kinda silly. But for people who have enough money, I guess why not if it floats their boat. I think it's a waste of resources to "relic" a new guitar.

[Iago]

Would never get one if they have a NOS option for the same model.

But let`s say I see someone selling a Relic Nocaster for 1.500,00US$ - I'd go for it all the way. After all, I dont think I could tell what dings are "real relic" from the "fake" ones.

[Fab4]

I don't think I could tell what dings are "real relic" from the "fake" ones.

That's a good point. The owner of Wildwood Guitars told me once that relic guitars are great to have in the shop because they're immune to shop wear.

Another guitar shop in Denver (that has since gone out of business) used to be so anal about shop wear that they put sticky notes on the pickguards when you tried them out, they watched you like a hawk the whole time and then wiped every fingerprint off immediately when you put a guitar down. I always felt unclean when I went in there.

And don't even get me started on Ed Roman's "Don't Touch Until You Buy" policy at his store in Vegas....

For the record, Wildwood is GREAT about letting you try out any guitar for as long as you like.

[sumitomo]

I get the (hawk eye) feel in the music store here,so I do not go there much.Sumi:D I think I'll wear a straight jacket next time I go there and see how that goes over.

[Katastrophe]

I'm not a big fan of "factory relics." I'd rather relic my own over time...:D

[Fab4]

I get the (hawk eye) feel in the music store here,so I do not go there much.

I don't know why you'd want to make your customers feel ooky about shopping for something that's as personal as a guitar. One guitar can sound totally different than another one of the same model. How can you tell if a guitar "speaks" to you if you can't sit down and get to know it? Maybe all those store owners are big proponents of speed dating, too.

[Plank_Spanker]

I'm not a big fan of "factory relics." I'd rather relic my own over time...:D

My take, also.

I've never understood the entire relic craze - a brand new guitar factory dinged and abused for exponentially more money than the stock model...............or the players that have their's "professionally relic'ed" for big money. That's all well and good until I start hearing just how superior these "relics" are to the stock line.................perhaps the owner's trying to justify the ludicrous prices?

As a wise man once said "Put a few cigarette burns on a Strat, and you've just increased its value by $25,000". :thwap:

[Iago]

Another guitar shop in Denver (that has since gone out of business) used to be so anal about shop wear that they put sticky notes on the pickguards when you tried them out, they watched you like a hawk the whole time and then wiped every fingerprint off immediately when you put a guitar down. I always felt unclean when I went in there.

That`s pretty much how the stores are here. And don't even think about asking about it if you're a teenager without dad and his wallet there with you.


And don't even get me started on Ed Roman's "Don't Touch Until You Buy" policy at his store in Vegas....

For the record, Wildwood is GREAT about letting you try out any guitar for as long as you like.

HAhahaha this guy has some sense of humour, really! Though, I kinda like his rants.
I've heard good about Wildwood!

[Fab4]

David Wilcox sort of has a song about all this, called "Guitar Shopping". When he has young, he says:

I needed something old and righteous
with its own authority
So the first guitar I ever bought
Was twice as old as me

But now lately I buy new guitars,
They're shiny as a hearse
I still like the look of road wear,
But the roles have been reversed

I turn 50 next week, so I guess bring my own road wear with me to every gig, too. Must be that creaking noise I hear when I bend my knees...

[Brian Krashpad]

I can't see paying extra..........
If you find a bargain on a neck/body/etc. that's been worn naturally, that's different.

This. ^

[Andy]

I think that many (not all ,but many) relic buyers are out to give an impression that they are long lost and battered road warrior musicians
just by the look of their guitar.what other purpose is there? it has nothing to do with playability..

Most of the instruments I have purchased in the years past were allready worn, I'm drawn to that worn out used instrument in the corner of the shop , it has some history behind it like an old hot rod or piece of furniture. it has honestly earned those scars over years of playing and getting knocked around.

I'm not drawn to the instant relic in any way.some look good but they are simply artificial.

[sunvalleylaw]

This. ^

Same, other than I would take an excellent deal on a "reliced" guitar if I like the guitar, but would maybe pay less than a well worn guitar. Like I would not pay extra for "distressed" jeans, but would buy a good vintage pair from a surplus shop or second hand store.

[just strum]

Personally, I would like to meet someone who has actually bought one. My Wildkat had some light scratches, so I guess I got a great deal based on the pricing I've seen for relics.

[Andy]

totally agree, a good deal = a good deal regardless.

[Plank_Spanker]

I think that many (not all ,but many) relic buyers are out to give an impression that they are long lost and battered road warrior musicians
just by the look of their guitar.what other purpose is there? it has nothing to do with playability...

Agreed. To me it's pompous, preening, pretentious posing. "Look at my old road warrior guitar. It makes me look like I've been playing for 30 years...........even if I'm only 22".

But I don't really see too many working musicians using relics. They tend to do their own relic'ing. The collector, big dollar relics make me laugh. The only market they seem to be aimed at is the non playing yuppies..........but those guitars are never marketed with playing intended.

If a relic is yo thang, more power to you. Just don't show up at one of my gigs and tell me how much better your relic is compared to the newer guitars I'm playing. Factory installed dings and artificial road rash doesn't make for instant mojo.

Did I mention I'm not big on relics? :D

I'm off rant now..........................

[just strum]

Did I mention I'm not big on relics? :D



That reminds me, do you have any opinion on relics?

[marnold]

I'm not a big fan of the fake relicing process either. Especially the fact that a professionally reliced guitar will cost much more than someone who reliced it the old fashioned way.

WRT shop owners being anal about their guitars, I don't blame them. I played an SRV Strat at a GC a while back that was new, but it had taken plenty of abuse just hanging there. Granted GC is a mega corporation and the help isn't paid to care. In a mom and pop shop, that's everything. I don't know what I'd do. I suppose with low-end foreign-made stuff its not a big deal, but if you get some U.S. made Fenders or Gibsons, etc., I'd be watching like a hawk.

[Fab4]

In a mom and pop shop, that's everything. I don't know what I'd do. I suppose with low-end foreign-made stuff its not a big deal, but if you get some U.S. made Fenders or Gibsons, etc., I'd be watching like a hawk.

I suppose it depends on how fast your stock moves. Wildwood sells bazillions of guitars over the internet, so they move stuff out pretty fast. They're one of (if not the) largest Fender and Gibson dealers in the world...and certainly the largest independent dealer, although you'd never know it to walk into their store. The guitars at Mom & Pop Ltd. probably hang on the wall for weeks or months, giving them lots of time to develop a touch of the ol' relic.

Wildwood can probably be a little less anal because they cater to the experienced player and the fat wallet guy. The thrashers go to GC. Wildwood also understands the "getting to know you" process, which is key to selling the higher-end stuff. Still, they do ask that you let THEM get the guitars down off the wall...which seems like a reasonable move to me.

[bigoldron]

Did I mention I'm not big on relics? :D

I'm off rant now..........................


Are you Suhr you don't like reliced geetars? Robert wanted to know. :D :poke:


I agree. If I'm going to pay the price of a new guitar, then I want it to LOOK like a new guitar! :AOK:

[peachhead]

I agree. If I'm going to pay the price of a new guitar, then I want it to LOOK like a new guitar! :AOK:

That's what I was thinking!

As for music shops- my local shop is a Martin dealer but keeps all their Martin inventory way, way up high almost at ceiling height. Takes a ladder to get them down. I never feel encouraged to ask about trying one- I had to go out of town to do that. On one hand I understand it but on the other, it seems kind of pretentious to me.

[Fab4]

I never feel encouraged to ask about trying one- I had to go out of town to do that.

So, it seems like some of these stores are discouraging customers and thereby sacrificing potential sales to avoid shop wear. Of course, they want to avoid shop wear because it would cut into sales. Am I missing something here?

And if I put my G&L Legacy on a guitar stand behind my truck on a gravel road, hit the gas and sprayed the thing with rocks, would it be worth an extra $1500?

What if somebody made a guitar with a new finish but with a worn-in-feeling neck and aged pickups? I think I asked a Fender rep about that once. Would that have any appeal for anyone?

[ZMAN]

I have seen some very nice "relic-ed" guitars from this guy.
A local dealer has them and I tried them out. They are under 500 and they have Wilkinson pickups and hardware.
http://www.jhs.co.uk/vintageelectric.html
I would not pay 3000 or more for a brand new guitar. I have a tech who bought one from the custom shop and paid 3500. It looked like a 40 year old Strat. It even had a pot missing on purpose.

[just strum]

He even has Sponge Bob guitars!!!

http://www.jhs.co.uk/spongebob.html

[Fab4]

I would never want to imply that "modern relics" are bad guitars. Fender started doing them because they wanted to make true vintage clones with period-correct finishes, and they really upped the standards for that approach. The JHS Vintage Electrics look like good values, and I've played some great sounding relics from the Nash Guitars Time Warp series, which have Lollar pickups and sell in the $1700-$1900US range.

http://www.nashguitars.com/timewarp/index.html

For build quality, sound quality and practically, modern relics are some of the best guitars out there. Plus, if you want that look, you can get it on a great guitar that may have modern features like a flatter fingerboard radius, bigger frets and modern wiring. The Wildwood 10 series is like that, and so are the Nash Time Warps.

My beef with relics is strictly philosophical and cosmetic. I don't want to feel like I'm living a lie, plus I love the process of getting a new guitar and watching it "relic" naturally.

(The next step: The Spongebob Relic Series! Coooooal!)

[ShortBuSX]

That's a good point. The owner of Wildwood Guitars told me once that relic guitars are great to have in the shop because they're immune to shop wear.

What? Like they dont have to care for them anymore???
Like its okay if a customer does something stupid, like banging one into another when putting it back on the hook?

I cant say that Id be a fan of paying 1k+ for a relic...but that Joe Strummer is pretty damn affordable and has some nice wear patterns and that rusty corrosion looks pretty sweet! If you havent picked one up...you should check one out!:AOK:

PS I really like my "beat all to hell" MIJ Strat....looks like it was left in a car several times...the thin urethane is cracked and chipped, chunks of clear coming off the fretboard and the natural wood under darkening, bridge patina and corroded bolts and hardware...all for $100!
I think Im more of a "used" guy than a "relic" guy...but if they could make a new one with that used feel and still make it affordable(like the Joe Strummer) Id be all over it!

[Gil Janus]

I'm not really into the whole buy a new pre-reliced guitar - even a tribute one.

I like the fact that the new Fender David Gilmour Black Strat is available either as a NOS or a Relic - if I could afford it, I'd buy the NOS one.

I've picked up and inspected some of the Closet Classics - very nice - but they aren't my idea of a new guitar - I want a guitar to look and feel and sound new.

Just my 2 cents :D

Gil :cool:

[ShortBuSX]

I like the fact that the new Fender David Gilmour Black Strat is available either as a NOS or a Relic - if I could afford it, I'd buy the NOS one.


But isnt the David Gilmore a Black on Burst???
A finish like that kinda begs to be relic'd...although I think Im more of a fan of replicas.

[Fab4]

Is there anyone on The Fret who really LIKES relic guitars? Not just well used once-new ones, but modern relics made to look worn on purpose.

Toss in your 2 cents. We'll be nice (at least I will, I promise.) Let us know what the appeal is to you. What do you think is good/cool about them?

[sunvalleylaw]

From my point of view, unless you primarily want the relic version of a guitar mostly as an art piece, or maybe to play with lightly just at home, a relic replica is not useful to a musician that plays. It is designed and built to look just like some artist's guitar, and if you go out and really use it, you will change it from that to something else with your own wear. I will be nice to anyone that shares their desire for a relic too.

[wingsdad]

I think the whole 'relic'd' thing started early one Monday morning at the Fender or Gibson factory when some hungover dude on the line in the finishing dept tripped and hit the switch at the wrong time and screwed up. His supervisor took the goofy ruined body to his boss, who took it to a suit from the marketing dept, who went to lunch with more suits, they had about 3 Martinis, started rapping about P.T. Barnum, were reminded that Barnum said 'A sucker is born every minute!' and thus came up with the brilliant idea to capitalize on the whole 'collector' niche craze thing and throw a premium 'custom shop' price tag on it and feed the mess to the unsuspecting, naieve and hungry yuppy-with-disposable-cash market demo.

Meanwhile, the supervisor got a big fat bonus check for salvaging garbage into gold and fired the dumbass who accidentally came up with a way for the corporation to open an untapped revenue stream.

Sort of like how Penicillin and 'vulcanized rubber' were discovered....

[Fab4]

Sort of like how Penicillin and 'vulcanized rubber' were discovered....

Hmm. Both advances that revolutionized their respective industries. So, you're saying that relic-ing is the wave of the future, and we'll see exponential advances in relic technology that will create a brighter, healthier, more productive world for us all?

Well, that's something to look forward to. And to think, we were here when it all began...

[Gil Janus]

But isnt the David Gilmore a Black on Burst???
A finish like that kinda begs to be relic'd...although I think Im more of a fan of replicas.
Yes it is - but the guitar itself is not relic'd - that is left up to the player :thwap:

Gil :cool:

[Fab4]

It is designed and built to look just like some artist's guitar, and if you go out and really use it, you will change it from that to something else with your own wear.

I have no problem with "artist tribute" guitars, but I wouldn't pay $10,000+ for any of them. I thought the SRV #1 tribute was really fascinating, with its 1/4"-deep crater above the pickguard, the upside down trem and the twinkle tape "Custom" sticker. It also sounded great. Same for the Andy Summers model. The wear patterns and mods give you a look inside the players' heads and let you feel something of what they felt when they picked up their main guitars. The recreation process is interesting, too.

I like the fact that Fender is offering the Gilmore tribute Strat in "artist relic" and NOS condition. You can decide if the replicated mojo of David's own scratch and dent pattern is worth an extra $800 to you.

Most relic guitars, on the other hand, aren't modeled off of a particular guitar. They're simply aged to show typical wear patterns that might have occurred if the guitars had been played heavily and knocked around a bit. That's simply fake mojo in my eye, which impresses me as intellectually dishonest.

[ShortBuSX]

Is there anyone on The Fret who really LIKES relic guitars? Not just well used once-new ones, but modern relics made to look worn on purpose.

Toss in your 2 cents. We'll be nice (at least I will, I promise.) Let us know what the appeal is to you. What do you think is good/cool about them?

I would totally buy this guitar.(and have never been a Clash fan)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/9/9/9/525999.jpg
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/0/0/1/526001.jpg

Itd be even better if I found one used!(at a slightly more reasonable price)
If you havent handled one, I really recommend you check it out...its totally got that thrift store denim look and feel...I even like that left out in the rain look its got.
And its not like youre worried about mangling it yourself...Id even go as far as to use it as a drink coaster or TV tray! I mean...what could go wrong?

[tot_Ou_tard]

Maybe the relic thing started with those who have played & experienced good old guitars & those who wish they had. The old beaters attained some cachet, because a good guitar gets played, the bad ones get ignored.

The brain is a lazy instrument. It probably doesn't take too many visual/auditory inputs to permanently assoctiated great tone with really beat-up wood.

The one real benefit that I can see with relics is a worn-in feel, how much money that is worth to you is up to you & your overconditioned brain.


My overconditioned brain thinks tone comes from closing your eyes & soaking in the tone waves that are all around us but need wooing to manifest.


That & the forty amphs, guitars, etc that I am currently drooling over.

[ShortBuSX]

My overconditioned brain thinks tone comes from closing your eyes & soaking in the tone waves that are all around us but need wooing to manifest.


My overconditioned brain just wants more and different guitars...in different colors, shapes and in varying conditions.

[Geraint Jones]

As a huge Clash fan I`d never buy the relic Tele , it seems completely against the Clash and Strummer`s punk ethos , quite a few years back I bought a Tele after a lunch time sesh in the pub and sanded the custard yellow finish off virtually destroying any value the guitar had , I did`nt care though it was exactly what i wanted, a workhorse guitar that i was`nt bothered about being abused . Anyway i`m off now to go shopping for a willie nelson relic .

[markb]

As a huge Clash fan I`d never buy the relic Tele , it seems completely against the Clash and Strummer`s punk ethos

Hear, hear on the Strummer tele. It's just the kind of corporate cash-in that Joe would never have authorised in his lifetime.


Anyway i`m off now to go shopping for a willie nelson relic

Yep, just what the world needs! A nylon strung Martin with holes in it :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Geraint Jones]

Mind you if the price was right as discussed earlier i might consider it . I remember reading an interview with Andy Summers a few months back about the Tele he`d bought for a few hundred quid in the early days of the Police, I bet the Fender execs are having a big Christmas party this year.

[tot_Ou_tard]

My overconditioned brain just wants more and different guitars...in different colors, shapes and in varying conditions.

Yes, "relic" is just another finish option like candy-apple red or paisley. It's typically an expensive "upgrade", but if that look floats your boat then so be it.

[ShortBuSX]

Yes, "relic" is just another finish option like candy-apple red or paisley. It's typically an expensive "upgrade", but if that look floats your boat then so be it.


And Im saying go look at one, pick one up...I really didnt think much of that guitar before doing so, like Id said, Ive never even been a Clash fan, that guitar is just cool man.
But I reckon like most things around here, its subjective...were going to have differing opinions on occasion *shrug*

[bigoldron]

Anyway i`m off now to go shopping for a willie nelson relic .

Have you seen Willie lately? He's pretty much in the relic status as well... :D His guitar has the "relic" look, but it came by it honestly. I still love his music and hearing him play and sing! :master:

[Geraint Jones]

Yeah, Willie Nelson he`s one of a kind . The strings must be the only thing holding that Martin together .

[tot_Ou_tard]

And Im saying go look at one, pick one up...I really didnt think much of that guitar before doing so, like Id said, Ive never even been a Clash fan, that guitar is just cool man.
But I reckon like most things around here, its subjective...were going to have differing opinions on occasion *shrug*

I didn't even realize that we were having a difference of opinion, but of course that will happen now & then.

I'll definitely give one a try if I see one.

[ShortBuSX]

I didn't even realize that we were having a difference of opinion, but of course that will happen now & then.

I'll definitely give one a try if I see one.


...but if that look floats your boat then so be it.

Sorry, I reckon I took your response the wrong way.
But do me a favor and lemme know what you think of the JS when you do get a chance to try one.

[tot_Ou_tard]

Sorry, I reckon I took your response the wrong way.
But do me a favor and lemme know what you think of the JS when you do get a chance to try one.
Yes, I see. Some use the "floats your boat" phrase in a snide way. I meant it in a "Whatever gets you through the night...It's alright. It's alright." kind'a way.

Nothing wrong with a floating boat as far as I can see.