New thread for the Crate V series amps anyone?

[Duff]

Now might be the time to start a new thread for all Crate V50 posts. I haven't seen one anywhere yet. We could even include all V series Crate amps and have a central thread to go to with our questions, mods, ideas, opinions, etc. There is a V18 thread on another forum but this forum is unique and has great communication going on.
I hope there is some interest.

I just got a brand new V50 for Christmas, early, for 160 including the 16 per cent discount from M123, shipped to the door. No affilliation with any company but M123 had it in stock and I imagine they are flying out the doors. MF is sold out.

Remember, these are out of production. When these blowouts are gone they are gone forever and I bet the used ones will be more than 160 and no five year warranty.
Mine appears to be built to last, well designed.

I used to be an industrial designer in the lighting industry, and I can in some small way intuitively deduce the quality of the design of many exposed electrical rigs within seconds. You can see instantly if something is a price leader cheaply designed and built type of thing, or a well designed, safe, sturdy, heavy duty, quality item.
You know, because you design cheap price leader items, that you have to market, to stay in a very competitive business. Mass produce low quality amps for instance, make them appealing with all sorts of computerized models, effects, etc., and sell them cheap. Make them look desirable, but the design is lacking, they cost way less to make, etc. Staying in business is the main priority in a competitive business environment like the electronics and lighting worlds. I think I read that Vox sells more "Chromies" than any other amp and makes the vast majority of their profit off of them. And they are desirable amps. But there are well documented design imperfections that go back to the original designs. The new amp is supposed to address those problems, the Black Diamond, and it might not be built and it will be expensive. Only one model, a big one is designed so far, supposedly. The Chromies are probably selling big time this Christmas.

Look at the Big Three auto maker problem. Survival is the name of the game. You have to do what you have to do to survive even if it comes down to begging. Can you imagine how humilliating it is for those big dogs from the Big Three to bow down before those representatives on that committee? Some of those representatives want them to fail because they have Toyota, Hundai, Honda, Saturn, etc., in their states.

Anyway, the V50 looks like a strong design both electronically, and structurally. They use void free plywood and the new style switching transformers and are lighter than equivalent sized amps due to the weight of the switching transformer. I do not have the electronics expertise to evaluate the design of the V50 but from what I have read it is supposed to be well thought out and designed with quality pcb boards, solder joints, tubes, speaker, positioning of the effects loop in the circuit, etc.

It has an extension speaker jack (meaning when you hook up an 8 ohm cab your internal amp speaker still works). So you could use your amp as your monitor and place the cabinet in the best place for the mix. Actually there are two speaker jacks on the back. One has the internal speaker plugged into it with a quarter inch jack, just like the Hot Rod Deluxe it has been compared to. Hot Rod Deluxes are expensive. But I wouldn't call this amp a poor man's HRDx. In fact I don't think it even sound like my HRDx. I'll have to A/B the clean channels because I don't need to waste my time on the Overdrive channel because the V50 sounds way better stock. I want to put a different preamp tube in my HRDx to get a smoother distortion. Heavy metaller's probably like it stock. More drive is over the top.

The V50 does not have the super sensitive volume knob like the HRDx either. This is a pleasant design element.


Right now I like mine the way it is but it would be nice to have a place to put all the V50 info and maybe even include the whole V class if there is not enough interest in just a V50 thread alone.

Well I probably already said way too much. Maybe there is some interest out there.


I hope my idea stimulates some thought amongst V series owners. We could share mods, etc.

Duffy

Awesome amp. Larger than the Delta Blues and a great blues amp. Super clean all the way to the ceiling and I like the vintage, non heavy metal, overdrive and substantial reverb tank. Also the speaker is way more impressive than I've seen stock on many amps. It has a large magnet, probably fourty ounces.

The amp chimes with a good strat like you wouldn't believe on the clean channel and even chimes on the drive channel with the drive turned up to about #4 and the volume tweaked at bedroom volumes, no one sleeping. Real smooth distortion channel like I really like. Don't know if that's what you call old school or not but it is smooth and really good. Probably the best on any of my amps.

It is supposed to be like a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe with the two 6L6 power tubes probably hot rodded like on the HRD, running full out at all times, something like that; might not have the concept exactly right, but the HRD name derives from the principle of the power tubes running hot at all times I think, could be wrong. People will correct me if I am. And I'm not at all sure if the Crate has them full blast all the time but it is constructed very well.

Some say that the Crate V50 is safely designed with the tubes well protected and some of the tubes well back inside out of easy reach for injury or damage. My V8 is that way too. You have to take the chassis out to get to the tubes. Nothing like safety first and having it designed in may be inconvenient, but it's probably a smart idea considering the potential physical consequences.

[Spudman]

Nice review Duff. My VC 5212 has EL tubes not 6V6s. Does yours have 6V6s?

[Duff]

The tubes in the V50 are two 6L6gc's for the power amp and 12ax7a for the preamp tubes.

The amp is big. Lots ot room inside, supposedly leads to a better less boxy sound. It is substantially bigger than the Delta Blues, kinda like a two by twelve combo amp size but only weighs 48 lbs.

Do you think we can use a thread for all the V series owners to share ideas, questions, etc.

By the way, I don't think it is up to the quality of the VC5212. But it sure look well designed and built and the sound is really good. For 160 using the 15 percent discount going on at M123, no affilliation.

I think it is a major bargain.

Duffy

[Andy]

I'm seriously looking at the v32 palomino.

[Duff]

I played a few V 32's and liked them way better than the V 16 by far. Super great sounding amp.

I always wanted one of those but I didn't have the extra cash and when I did they were history, and I wanted a new one.

The Palamino is so cool looking with the cream tolex, wheat colored basketweave grill cloth and that distinctive gold trim with the big V on the front.

Duffy

[Andy]

theres one on our craigslist

http://nashville.craigslist.org/msg/937967908.html

not sure if this a good value or not at $500, I would like to hear it tho

[WackyT]

After I did the resistor switch in the preamp, my V18 sounds a lot better than before. It was way too bassy in it's factory form. It's definitely worth the $140 it cost.

[TS808]

A little bit off topic, but are ALL the V-Series amps being discontinued??

[Duff]

My understanding is the V series is being discontinued, if not already not being produced.

Andy:

GC did the blowout on the Crate Palamino's a year or so ago for great prices. The V32 was like 279 I believe. The prices were great.

The V50 blowout is a great deal and sounds really good at low or high volume but is probably not for a heavey metal type person.

The V50 is different from the other V series amps: it is class A/B and has two channels, tank reverb, and has an American fender type sound, closely compared by some to the clean channel on the Hot Rod Deluxe but for a LOT less money. It sure does have super nice clean headroom and chime, rings like a bell and the distortion is like a violin. Not for heavy metal though.

Duffy

[Duff]

I'm playing my V 50 almost exclusively and it is working perfect and sounds even better. Been using strats lately to outstanding effect, straight in, chime city.

Tonight I'm going to start by playing my SX Gibson LP Special copy with the two P90s. Looking forward to enjoying that tone. Don't have to get up until late tomorrow.

I'm still wondering if Crate will repair these under the warranty or if they are on the "do not repair" list, where you just get a new amp; in this case evidently Palamino V50's. Awesome amps too. But I want to keep this one and hope it is not on the "do not repair" list, if Crate has one like Fender evidently has on the Super Champ XD's. Hard to believe.

I would bet pro techs would fix the SCXD if you paid them, even building boards, etc.

Duffy
Peace

[bigoldron]

Maybe I can help continue the V thread, Duffy! Tomorrow is NAD (new amph day) for me! I've traded my Vox AD30VT for a Crate Vintage Club 20 with the blonde tolex. I'm pumped just waiting for it!

As soon as I get it and have chance to play it (almost said "work with it", but it's not supposed to be "work"), I'll let you know how much I like it. Maybe then I can help continue the "V" thread. :bravo: :D

[Bloozcat]

Well, I've got the older series Vintage Club 30 1X12", and a Vintage Club 20 1X12". Both are EL84 powered, and are different animals from the newer series.

[bigoldron]

Well, I've got the older series Vintage Club 30 1X12", and a Vintage Club 20 1X12". Both are EL84 powered, and are different animals from the newer series.

Blooz, how do you like that Vintage Club 20? I've got one on the way and is supposed to arrive tomorrow (Tuesday).

[Bloozcat]

Blooz, how do you like that Vintage Club 20? I've got one on the way and is supposed to arrive tomorrow (Tuesday).

It's a great little practice amp, and pretty loud too. It's brighter and not as warm as the VC 30, and it's got a knarly edge to it that's a nice alternative to the VC 30 as well. I put a Hellatone 12" speaker in it, which is a "broken in" Celestion G12H30 from Avatar speakers. That warmed it up a bit, but not tremendously. The guy I bought it from had re-tubed it with some Ruby tubes, which are Sovteks for the EL 84's and Shuguang/Chinese for the 12AX7's. After experimenting with all kinds of tubes that I have (I have several types of NOS EL84's), I ended up putting the Shuguang 12AX7's back in with a pair of NOS Tesla EL84's. I like the bite the amp gets, so I just went with it with a little refinement on the power tube end.

Good little amp...

[bigoldron]

It's a great little practice amp, and pretty loud too. It's brighter and not as warm as the VC 30, and it's got a knarly edge to it that's a nice alternative to the VC 30 as well. I put a Hellatone 12" speaker in it, which is a "broken in" Celestion G12H30 from Avatar speakers. That warmed it up a bit, but not tremendously. The guy I bought it from had re-tubed it with some Ruby tubes, which are Sovteks for the EL 84's and Shuguang/Chinese for the 12AX7's. After experimenting with all kinds of tubes that I have (I have several types of NOS EL84's), I ended up putting the Shuguang 12AX7's back in with a pair of NOS Tesla EL84's. I like the bite the amp gets, so I just went with it with a little refinement on the power tube end.

Good little amp...

Thanks Blooz! BTW, I'm diggin' your avatar. :AOK:

[Duff]

Thanks for participating in this thread. I think a Crate V series, including the Vintage Clubs, is a great place to share info on an amp that probably gets overlooked or just thrown in where ever.

This is a cool thread, by my way of seeing things.

Plus these new, inexpensive V series that are out are falling into the hands of many and it's neat to have a central place to share about them, as well as the Palamino's, etc.

Tonight:

I'm playing my V50, new style, with my "Black Pearl" with the hot SD single coil sized humbuckers and it sounds incredible.

I played it thru the clean channel for a while. An excellent clean channel. Then I switched to the drive channel and pushed in the boost button and am getting some really nice, smooth overdrive from that hot strat. It is a very rewarding and motivating sound. I want to play all night. Tomorrow off. Even at low volume this V 50 hits it with beautiful drive tone, stock. No pedals.

This is a versatile amp with a great clean channel all the way to the ceiling; and a great overdrive channel for those of us searching for a great, smooth sounding, pleasantly toneful drive sound that doesn't get into thrashing territory without really trying, if ever.

With this amp and a versitile guitar like my specially rigged "Black Beauty" I can get very rewarding tones. Maybe tomorrow I'll crank it up and see how I like it with some power behind it. My premonition is that it will be stunning.

I have used it for plus minus fourty hours of playing and add on another three or four hours of fired up idling and at least twenty more hours on standby and I have encountered no problems. It has been able to get real hot many times and remain hot for extended periods. No Pu**y footing around with it but shaking it down firmly but fairly conservatively because of my limitted skill at really hammering a guitar amp like some of you really good players.

All considered, it is shaking out very reliably and excellently for me. Because my skills have grown and my ear has developed and my touch is more sensitive, I don't think I have evaluated any amp I own with the same level of accuracy of perception that I have put this amp up against.

I am very satisfied with the way this amp delivers. It has versitile tones, power, sensitivity, chime, smooth overdrive, and an overall accumulative tone that I find highly desirable. For two sixty to the door I think it is, like you hear some people say, worth ten times that. I always thought it was corny when people would say that but I now understand how they feel.

This amp has a lot of very applicable, useful, and quality toneful uses; and has been a significant addition to my collection of musical gear.

I'm getting to the point of refinement now where, with luck, I have a collection of all very nice, complimentary equipment, within my financial comfort zone.

I play all my guitars and should use more of my amps more often. I have a tendency to lock onto one amp for quite a while while others stand waiting but unused.

Even my Palamino Crate V8 gets used. It's by my desk and lots of times I don't even put a pedal in front of it, but I like to use a pedal in front of it because it has such a limitted control panel. That is a really cool looking amp in my opinion. That wheat colored heavy grill cloth weave looks really classy, almost like gold. Combined with the gold trim and the cream tolex, it is a cherry looking amp.

I'd love to hear more about some of those Palamino V50's some guys got in exchange for messed up V50's. I played one and remember it as being one of those, "man I wish I could afford this right now" type of things. Super heavy. Might have been a two twelve though.

Hope I'm not carrying on too much about these amps, but I am enthusiastic about them and am happy that some people have found the thread useful.

Back to the V50 and the "Black Beauty" strat.

Duffy

[piebaldpython]

The V50 is different from the other V series amps: it is class A/B and has two channels, tank reverb, and has an American fender type sound, closely compared by some to the clean channel on the Hot Rod Deluxe but for a LOT less money. It sure does have super nice clean headroom and chime, rings like a bell and the distortion is like a violin. Not for heavy metal though.

Duffy

I would suspect that the V50 sounds different from the other Crate V amps because the V50 runs off 6L6 tubes and the others run off EL84 tubes I think.

[Duff]

Those tubes are different from the other V series. Easy to believe that they would be responsible for the different sound.

I think the Hot Rod Deluxe has the same tubes but costs like five times as much as this one. Maybe only four times as much. The HRD has known reliability problems as well. At least the early ones had cold solder joint problems that caused burning of the pcb boards. That may have had something to do with the Asians not having the skills developed to work with the lead free solder. Even today it will take longer to train a factory worker to properly solder with lead free solder than it did before to train them with the old solder. Not everyone is going to have the ability to be proficient with lead free solder. I hope they have quality control people watching them and testing those joints.

The V50 sounds great with the 6L6 stock tubes.

Duffy

[WackyT]

While I was doing the resistor swap on my V18, I inspected the soldering job on both boards, and it was actually a good job. Surprised me.

[WackyT]

Just got my Accutronics 4EB2C1B reverb tank for my Crate V18, and it is so much better sounding than the stock reverb tank in the Crate V18. I'd definitely recommend this for anyone not liking the sproingy sound of the stock one.

[marnold]

I saw a V30(?) and a V5 at a shop in Green Bay but didn't plug in. Might have to. Anybody know how comparable in design they are to the also-Crate-made Blackhearts?

[pes_laul]

I got a V18 for christmas and that thing sastifies all my needs. now the reverb is a little sproingy but It fits for what I use it for. and it is loud too.

[Blaze]

I saw this one on the ads , i dont know these much, is it good starting at $400.00 cad.?


http://quebec.kijiji.ca/c-acheter-et-vendre-instruments-de-musique-Crate-V-Series-V33-212-2x12-quot-33-watt-Guitar-Combo-Tube-W0QQAdIdZ97670154

[tunghaichuan]

I saw a V30(?) and a V5 at a shop in Green Bay but didn't plug in. Might have to. Anybody know how comparable in design they are to the also-Crate-made Blackhearts?

I believe the V30 is a push pull class AB amp using four EL84s. It puts out about 30 watts into a 12" speaker in the combo, and also comes as a head, IIRC.

The V5 is a single ended class A amp using one EL84 for about five watts and has a 10" speaker. The V5 has one tone control, and while I don't have the schematic in front of me, I believe it is something along the lines of the low-loss type as in the 50s Fender Tweed Princeton. The preamp is one 12AX7. There is a dual op amp in the preamp driving the 12AX7, so there is mondo gain available in this amp. It doesn't come in a head version. I played one in a store a few months back and it sounded kind of constricted and boxy, no doubt due to the small cabinet and 10" speaker. It sounded thin. I didn't get a chance to crank it as I was in a music store, but I seem to remember I thought it sounded kind of cheesy overall. The build quality looks decent, there are some pix in this thread (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=9379). There is also an excellent mod guide for improving the sound of the V5.

The BH Little Giant is similar to the V5 in that it has one 12AX7 and one EL84, but has a three-band TMB tone stack. This robs a lot of the gain, so it is more inherently clean unless cranked up all the way or pushed with a booster, OD, or distortion pedal. The V5 is "pre pushed" with the dual opamp in the preamp so a fair comparison would include a booster on the Little Giant. Also to be fair, I'd like to hear a V5 through one of my ported RSA 1x12" cabs.

Having said that, in a straight comparison of the 1x10" V5 against the BH Little Giant combo, the Little Giant wins hands down. The speaker in the Little Giant is a special design Eminence and is a very good sounding speaker right out of the box. OTOH, the V5 is $99 new, the BH combo is $349. The BH 5W Little Giant head is $199.

tung

[marnold]

The preamp is one 12AX7. There is a dual op amp in the preamp driving the 12AX7, so there is mondo gain available in this amp.
If I'm understanding this correctly, you mean that besides the tube preamp there's also the equivalent of an overdrive pedal/SS preamp in there too?

[tunghaichuan]

If I'm understanding this correctly, you mean that besides the tube preamp there's also the equivalent of an overdrive pedal/SS preamp in there too?

There aren't any clipping diodes, so I wouldn't call it an OD pedal, but there are two gain stages in front of the 12AX7 courtesy of a dual opamp, a TL072, IIRC. So you have the equivalent of four gain stages before the EL84, two from the opamp, and two from the 12AX7

tung

[Duff]

My cream and gold V8 is a great little portable amp, with tone knob, gain knob, and volume knob. Still very limitted in its eq and tweakability but a neat amp, especially with a multipedal in front of it. I like that amp and have it by my desk so I can plug in after repairs, etc., like last night when I rewired my Epi birdseye LP std's bridge tone pot and it sounds great now and even great thru the V8 straight in with some gain and tone at twelve o'clock. Thru the Delta Blues with drive way up and reverb at about half way it sounds super great, SD hot rodded pup set. Really cool sounding guitar. Open coil hot rodded pups. 130 for the set is not bad.

My soldering has greatly improved; thanks in no small part to the great suggestions and directions from some of the great people on this great site.

My V8 is presumably Class A but there is some doubt about if Class A amps are actually true Class A amps. I don't understand the complete idea behind it but it is apparently true. You have one channel and on mine vary the gain with the gain knob and the volume knob. On the V5 it sounds like you vary the gain with the volume knob alone like on an Epi V Jr, a super great amp of immense renown, highly respected by many of the best guitar players in the world and engineers too.

The Blackheart I bought new for 139 when they first came out 3/5 watts. EQ section. A really great amp thru my Epi V Jr one twelve lady luck cab and even better sounding thru my Epi Southern California four by twelve lady luck eminence speaker cab. Can you believe a three watt amp can drive a big cab like that. The So. Cal. is no small cab and heavy and well built too. Really glad I got that cab.

The Blackheart is an awesome amp and I would presume that it is far more satisfying than the V5. Anything you can plug into various cabs is going to be able to give you a huge potential of possible sounds because you can use a lot of different voiced cabs.

Hope my limitted amateur experience and observations help out at least a little.

Duffy
Winfield, Pa.

PS Got my new Newfoundland puppy today, still has puppy teeth. I'm one happy dude.

[Duff]

I'm thinking of putting new tubes in my V8 Palamino that is about two years old and has the original tubes.

My thinking is to put in the same value tubes but JJ's.

Any ideas or feedback on this? Has anyone had better results with other tubes or experience putting in JJ's and how they sound compared to the stock tubes?

Feedback appreciated.

Note:

I don't know if I mentioned this, but my Crate V50, new style, is in the shop, a really professional amp shop to have the switching power supply rebuilt.
Crate claims a bad set of Ruby power tubes blow out and cause damage to the power supply. I watched my power tubes blow out and it took out the power supply. No red light. Crate says this is the single most common problem with the V50.
Crate has been very very cooperative with the shop and the tech says that they stand big time behind their products. They said that if the rebuild that they are doing, no part available from Crate, that Crate will authorize other options, including having a conventional power supply put in. The tech is a pro and says the switching power supply is a good design, but that things happen and when power tubes blow a lot of things can happen to any amp.
So, watch your power tubes and replace them if you think they are acting up.

Crate has authorized them to replace the tubes with JJ's and probably the preamp tubes will be replaced as well.

I miss the V50 and like the reverb on it and the overdrive channel for the kinds of music I play; blues and rock. Actually the reverb is possibly the best sounding to me of any of my amps and the overdrive channel is the smooth type of overdrive that I have been looking for.

So I can't wait to get the baby back. It is a great sounding amp.

I will post about how it sounds after the rebuild. If you have a V50 I would suggest that you take it in to an authorized Crate repair center and ask them to get a power tube replacement authorized under the warranty. This is for the new style V50 that was on sale for around 199 recently, maybe still.

Duffy
Winfield, Pa.


Peace

[marnold]

That's good to hear because I thought Crate/Loud had gone to a replace-only policy.

[Duff]

Marnold,

There were a few posts where some guy got an old style V50 Crate Palamino with two twelves in it in exchange for the V50 because Crate didn't have any replacement V50's and didn't have the replacement switching power supply on hand, backordered.

I tried to get one of the Palamino's, ha ha ha; you had to know that! That would have been one great replacement!

Anyway the V50 sounds really good to me and is powerful. I like the classic drive and the reverb on the V50 must not share the shortcomings of the one on the V18. I think it is probably the best reverb of any of my amps maybe, but not positive.

Crate authorized a professional guitar and amp repair shop in Harrisburg, Pa. to rebuild the switching power supply by sourcing the necessary parts themselves at the repair shop. The super good repair guy at the place said that Crate was very cooperative with him. He also stated that most repair techs wouldn't be able to rebuild the switching power supply because they would not have the necessary knowledge to do so, which I definitely believe. That's why I took it to Harrisburg, 50 miles, to have these pro guys work on it. They do all the pro repairs in the Harrisburg and surrounding area that need stuff done by someone who knows how to do it right.

He says his past experience with Crate has been that they stand behind their product very sturdily. The repair tech said that the new style V50 like mine, and the other V series that they were blowing out at great prices, although a great amp, does not appear to be of as good of build quality as the older style V50's and the Palamino's. I always though the Palamino's were an MF GC exclusive that probably had budget cut design plans to maximize profit thru exclusive Palamino's that were probably not like the "real" Crates. Evidently I was wrong. I picked up a Crate Palamino V8 and it has a 10 inch Celestion speaker in it. The old style V5's had 8 inch Crate speakers I believe. So those Palamino's don't just look good, but they are probably better built than most people think.

Also, I talked to the customer service tech at Crate and he said the V50 is a great amp but that the bad tubes were identified as the culprit. He also stated that Crate is putting a big interest in promoting the Blackheart amps right now and that's why a new V series is not forthcoming at this time. The evidently are quite proud of the Blackheart's, and for good reason.

I'm looking forward to getting the V50 back and will put it thru its paces and hopefully it will stand up to the test of time.

Duffy

Peace

[larryx]

:confused: I can only find crate mod posts regarding V5 and very little else.I found a snipet or so of V-18 and V50 stuff. But the majority seems to be on the V5.Would anyone besides me be interested in a thread on the V-18 and33? I left a message a week or so ago regarding the Soldano and Bogner mods.There has been no commentary in regard to these amps and mods. I have a question about tube replacement. It seems alot of people are messing with the preamp tubes. Some are saying use a lower gain V1(as low as an AU?) Some are saying to use a lower gain Phase inverter tube at V3(which makes more sense) Some are suggesting all 3 preamp tubes be set to lower gain tubes? I don't know if any of these are usefull suggestions. Why would I use a 12AU7 in the V1 position? Isn't the V1 position where you get your overall tone from? Why would I use a tube with such a low amount of gain in this position? Wouldn't this be the spot that I would want to put my sweetest sounding preamp tube? Wouldn't it make sense to put a lower gain tube in the PI position to help cut down on the gain being fed to the input of the output section? Speaking of tubes for the V-33, how about (V1-your best sounding 12AX7),(V2-JAN/PHILIPS 5751),(V3-JAN/PHILIPS 12AT7balanced for Phase inverter) Doesn't this seem like the logical tube location and gain values ? Any thoughts on the subject? Anyone with mod ideas and info would be greatly apreciated :confused:

[Duff]

The V50 is still at the very competent amp tech. He attempted to build a switching power supply but was unable to get it to work.

Crate is backing him all the way and he is now installing a conventional power supply. I am glad of this because I am very doubtful that the switching power supply will perform satisfactorilly anytime soon in a tube type amp.

If the rebuild doesn't go well I'm going to ask Crate for a replacement: a Crate VTX200S, stereo solid state three channel two by twelve combo.

The amp tech says that the V50 will be way better than the VTX200S when he finishes with the conventional power supply. I am glad of this because the amp sounds really great and I hope the new conventional power supply will not degrade the sound. If it does I'm asking for the VTX.

So, it has been over two months.

Those of you that have switching power supply problems will probably be advised by Crate that they are going to send your amp to this tech to repair it with a conventional power supply, if all goes well. This will be a good thing, because when the switching power supply goes out you are going to have a MAJOR problem. Major. There are no switching power supplies available.

Crate promoted the switching PS as being a super great innovation when they advertised the new V series that we have. The concept did not reach fruition. The conclusion is that switching power supplies are great in ss amps but have not been developed as a reliable component in a tube amp.

Therefore, if my amp doesn't sound right to me, I'm going to again bring up the advertising campaign and ask for the expensive VTX200S stereo solid state Crate. Maybe I'll luck out and get it. But I hope the V50 comes back working great and hold up with the new power supply and endures the test of time.

It makes you a little shy when something like this happens.

Check those tubes. There was a bad batch of Ruby tubes. Might be a good idea to replace the power tubes with new high quality ones, like JJ's. I don't know. But an ounce of prevention . . . . . Forgot the rest of it but you know what I mean.

Best luck with your switching power supplies and hope you don't ever get a catastrophic power tube failure. It can take a lot of stuff out. That's why replacing tubes regularly as recommended is a very very good idea especially if you have an expensive tube amp.

I have a bunch of good amps so I'm not devastated. But I might be getting a nice ss one next.

Peace,
Duffy

[larryx]

Hello Duff,
Is this power supply issue V50 specific? Cuz all the V series mkll amps have switching supplies. I have the 18 -212,33 -212 and 33H ! Guess it's good to have back up!? But if all 3 go tits up I'm screwed!

[Duff]

Mine had a "catastrophic" power tube failure. This kind of catastrophic failure could hurt any tube amp, but especially the switching power supply ones.

I'd take it in and get the tubes changed from the stock Ruby tubes to some JJ's, no affln. Explain to the tech the problem.

My problem was over before I knew it, almost. Almost key word. The day before the tubes popped and flashed when I turned it on but it played great shortly thereafter. I had my warning and ignored it. The next day was MEGA pop and FLASH, taking out the other stuff.

Stay on top of them power tubes and replace them. There was a batch of bad power tubes, Ruby. Call Crate and ask for advice.

I'll keep you all posted on mine.

Duffy
Winfield, Pa.

[WackyT]

How hard would it be to change the switching power supply to a conventional tube amp power supply? I ought to map out the voltages going into the mainboard.

[Duff]

WackyT,

Evidently it isn't that simple. Crate claims that they will send this guy all kinds of work if he figures out a way to put a good conventional power supply in the Crate V50.

I am actually trying to negotiate for a replacement for the V50, if they will give me a VTX200S, solid state, three channel, stereo amp. I might just push this issue because this repair job has inconvenienced me quite considerably already. No return call from the repair guy today.

The amp has been at a very competent tech shop for three months. No rebuild of the switching pwr supply was able to be built.

The guy is now supposedly working on retrofitting a conventional power supply. What currents you need to match I am not sure. Evidently, however, it can be done. Just hasn't been done yet. Why hasn't it been done yet? I don't know. Maybe you do.

Duffy
Winfield, Pa.

[WackyT]

The only hurdle I can see, Duff, are the op amps in the circuit. I should be able to take some measurements of my V18 this weekend.

The schematic I have for the V18 says the power supply provides +320V, +6.3V, +17V, and -17V.

[Duff]

WackyT,

Sounds like you have a good grasp of what is happening inside these amps, much moreso than me; hence, my amp is at a highly qualified tech who actually, but unsuccessfully, tried to build a new switching pwr transformer. Crate has authorized him to try to put in a conventional power supply and promises him plenty of business if he can figure it out; leading me to believe that it isn't a cake walk.

I will definitely settle for a Crate VTX200S but they say the properly working V50 will be way better. What are your ideas on this comparison?

I see that you have a Samick Avion. I had one of those with a twisted neck and returned it for a Schecter Omen 6 that has been a great walnut stained black trimmed super strat type guitar, two humbuckers, now the ones I took out of my Epiphone LP Standard Plus Top when I put in nickel plated Seymour Duncan pickups: JB in the bridge and a '59 in the neck - great pickups. The stock Epi pups sound good in the Omen 6, which was my first really good guitar, by my amateurish standards, at least at the time and I still like that guitar and will not part with it.

Anyway, I have continued to want a Samick and was turned on by the inexpensive acoustic 12 string, but recently bought a brand new Samick Gregg Bennett acoustic J2 Jumbo, non electrified; however, tonight I put my Dean Markley sound hole piano black humbucking magnetic acoustic pickup in the jumbo and plugged it into my Dean Markley outboard acoustic preamp and then into my new little Marshall MB15CDR on the clean channel instead of my acoustic Crate Gunnison amp. Wow! Did the jumbo sound great!

Then I put my Danelectro Corned Beef, outlandish, reverb pedal between the guitar and the acoustic preamp and Wow!!!! again.

Then I plugged my guitar into my Danelectro Wasabi Overdrive pedal and ran a cable to the Corned Beef and into the preamp and thus to the Marshall and Wowwwwwwww! What a great sound.

I had fun with that for about an hour. No feedback.

The Jumbo sounds great just straight up no electricity as well, naturally. Glad I bought it for 168 US dollars. A great jumbo at a great price.

My Seagull dreadnought 20th aniv. S6, with a solid spruce top and flammed maple sides and back on top of cherry, sounds best of all my acoustics. The tone is loud and great, very sweet sounding and full but it cost about five times as much as my other two acoustics including the Jumbo Samick. So the Samick is my acoustic that I like to keep out of the case and easily at hand because I want to play a lot more acoustic lately, even though I have some new great electrics; including my brand new Peavey Hartley Peavey signature made in Korea - "HP Signature EXP" with a super beautiful Tiger Eye maple top on a solid mahogany body with mahogany set neck and gold trim including two custom wound Peavey hot humbuckers. This HP Signature EXP does not fool you with its good looks, it has what it takes to make it a great feeling, sounding and playing super strat style guitar. This guitar is really great. The pickups are not going anywhere and sound very hot and tonefull not like a strat or an LP but fabulous. I got that expensive guitar for 199 US at a place near me that is selling out all their Peavey stuff at half or less the internet price.

They have a Peavey Zodiac P J bass with Seymour Duncan quarter pounders on it that I played and it is astounding. It's 199 and goes for over 600 on MF. It is the scorpion version signed by some heavy metal bassist. It is black with a chrome pickguard that I suspect to be real chrome based on the "quarter tap" test, but maybe not. The neck is a jazz bass slim style and the board is rosewood or ebony. One hot bass that sounds really great. Hopefully I'll be able to pull it off. I gave my '85ish Fender MIJ Jazz bass to my son along with the old Peavey TNT 115 and bought him a 800 dollar new SWR Workingpro 15, an awesome amp. I have a small 30 watt new release Marshall MB30 practice amp that is awesome with clean and dirty channels, a manual compression with adjustment knob and three voices with adj knob plus contour in the mid and other great things and a tweeter, 168 out the door. I also have a Fender Rumble 100 with the flashing red lights coming from the base ports and I like them, switchable off too. I'm 59 and I like the way those red lights flash to the way you play, cool effect. I use the Marshall almost exclusively though. It sounds great and handles a 5 string with no problem, no something every bass amp will do. I need to see how my Fender Rumble 100 will handle my Schecter neck thru Stilletto V Elite. This is a great bass as well but I play my inexpensive affinities, P and J basses mostly. The P bass I have been hot rodding and put a black pickguard on the black naturally relic'd body w rosewood board and it looks "dark"; I bought and put in some guitarfetish.com hot P bass pickups in it and wish I would have went for the SD quarter pounders instead for not too much more money. I may do this yet. The J bass affinity is metallic red and is brand new for like 179 and plays great, no buzz with any of them and the J bass is awesome but the P bass is something I have always wanted and maybe I'll get that Peavey P J special one of these days. In the meantime I'm having lots of fun.

I'm going to play my Squire Classic Vibe antique sunburst strat thru the Wassabi overdrive into the little Marshall MG15CDR right now. Nice under appreciated, I would suspect, bedroom amp. I have other great bedroom amps too like the Fender Super Champ XD, nothing to scoff at with the Ragin' Cajun speaker mod. The CV has the bridge tone mod right from the store before it came home and pure nickel strings.

I'd buy a Samick again, no problem. The non electrified Jumbo acoustic is a great inexpensive guitar and electrified the way I did it without the acoustic amp is a real surprise and no feedback with awesome tone in all configurations. Glad I got that Samick Jumbo J2.

Good luck with your Samick and working on the Crate amp. I bet a high quality conventional power supply will work. I just wouldn't know how to go about it. I hope my expert tech knows how to retain the super great tone that the amp came with, otherwise I'm pressing for the VTX200S stereo solid state three channel two twelve.

What do you think about that ss amp?

Duffy

[Duff49]

The Crate V50 is history.

I negotiated with Crate to get a replacement probably refurbished Palamino V32 with two twelve inch Celestion speakers, 67 pounds unpacked. Hope it works good. It has conventional power supplies and is apparently built a lot better than the new discontinued V series according to the tech.

The V32 Palamino is class A not A/B like the V50, but I will be way happier with it. I was very happy with the V50 until the major major problem with the switching power supply.

The Palamino is now in route via UPS from Redmond, Washington.

Naturally, I can't wait for it to get here so I can see if it's new or refurbished or shows signs of excessive wear. According to the guy at Crate it is in great shape, but I doubt if he has seen it, it probably was located in some warehouse boxed up.

Well it's on it's way here and will show up this week.

I have always wanted a big Palamino. My V8 is cool. I played a V32 before and it sounded really great. I hope this turns out good.

I would be cautious of the new style V series and watch the tubes.

Also the tech at Crate said that they identified another problem that caused the problem with the switching power supply. A lot of the capacitors were messed up somehow. Supposedly the design of the new V series is a design that didn't meet expectations and has inherent problems from the original redesign all the way up to the switching power supply. Must be why they were getting rid of them so inexpensively but continued to advertise how great the switching power supply is, weight saving, etc.

Well, it has been a disappointment but I look forward to the cream and gold Palamino and hope it works out and the original warranty on the V50 transfers to the Palamino, so that's good since the V50 is still not a year old.

Thought some of you would appreciate the update on my problem with the amp. Luckily I'm getting a hopefully great Palamino.

Duffy
Winfield, Pa.

[oldguy]

Thanks for the post, Duffy. Appreciate the information. Here's hoping the replacement lives up to your expectations.:beer:

[Duff]

Thanks Oldguy.

Yeah. The V50 is unfortunately history, but I must say I'm looking forward to the Palamino V32 w two twelve celestions. Even though it is a Class A amp it has a channel switch, boost and presence, etc.

I notice you have an Agile. I have two SST strats which sound really good and a Gibson LP Special copy with two P90s and all mahogany build with mahogany set neck that sounds and feels and plays and looks real good in antique burst. Could use some really nice P90s though, I'm sure and maybe I'll get some. I'll have to make another post.

I also have a used Squire P bass that I hot rodded with some GFS Power Pro Plus hot pickups to really good effect. It sounds really good. Also replaced the worn out stained white cracked pickguard with a new heavy duty black white black Fender one and it looks really good on the black body with rosewood neck. But it plays really great and has TONE.

Duffy

[oldguy]

Yes, I have one LP style axe, and it's an Agile. The AL 3000 model, which has an ebony 'board, abalone inlays, and Grover tuners. It's as good as my old Les Paul Custom was, with the exception of the pots and switches, which will need upgrading someday. (My original LP was sold yrs. ago, but I never missed a child support payment! )
I bought this particular Agile because it came with a Gibson hardshell case with the nice pink protector sheet...............
oh, yeah, it was loaded with WCR Crossroads humbuckers also.....:AOK: :D

[Duff]

Oldguy,

What are WCR pups? Wilkinson Crossroads? Never heard of them. Sound like blue tone pickups.

I have two Epi LP Standards one is a plus top and I put in SD "hot rodded" set in one and SD's in the other as well; a JB in the bridge of the other with a '59 in the neck. Don't know enought about the electronics to know what to do to improve the tone; although I may be having a set of Fender Vintage Noisless J Bass pickups put in my new Squire Affinity J Bass. An older guy, 69, will do it for me and install a capacitor and I think resistor so that the treble won't roll off when you turn the volume down. That might be my next project but I'll have him do it because he has a milling machine and the pickups might need to be fitted into spaces that need to be opened up or deepened.

Evidently a lot of these guitars these days come with the wrong value pots installed in them.

Duffy

[oldguy]

Duff,
Wagner.......(Jim Wagner) potted P.A.F. pickups. Bluesy tones, not high output at all, but not weak. Work great for fat blues and old school rock.
They were already installed in the Agile, and w/ the Gibson hardshell case and a $250 set of Wagner pickups I thought it was a good deal.

[jim p]

I have a V50 and was wondering if I could get more detail on the one that failed. I am making changes to this one so if there is a fault there may be less chance of a total meltdown. What has been posted is that the output tubes caused the failure that may be the case it also could be the bias supply fails(-63 volts) this would put both output tubes full on. So far I have lowered the value of fuse F1 to 300mA the schematic shows 1 amp the stock part was 800mA so Crate already changed it once. To lower it I changed R68 to 2.2k from the stock value of 470 ohms with out changing R68 the surge current of charging C41 would just blow the fuse when switching out of standby. But it would be nice to know what was fried on the switching supply that failed. If you could give me more detail that would be great, thanks

[Duff]

There is also a capacitor issue according to the tech at Crate. The design is not a great design to begin with. My tech tried to rebuild a switching power supply but couldn't get it to work. Must have been other issues. You can call him. The name of the company is Full Custom Music in Leymoyne, Pa. Search for their website and tell them Matt told you about it and my V50 he was trying to fix the switching pwr supply on. He will be able to give you some insight.

My ideas are to watch the tubes, replace them with real good ones. Call Crate and talk to John House, ask the operator. Tell him you are concerned. He told me there is a replacement swithcing power supply that has been designed but won't be available for a few weeks.

I loved the amp and wish it could have been fixed but it would have been too much work and too long to wait for the replacement parts which are unproven. Switching power supplies have not been proven successful in tube amps he said.

This Crate Palamino V32 w two twelve inch Celestion 70/80 speakers is an awesome class A amp.

I just got a Peavey 5w JSX Mini Colossal for 175 dollars, brand new. Awesome amp and Loud too. Great power sponge put in as well, Weber 8 inch speaker.

When the V50 went the tubes flashed and popped and then played as usual. The next day I turned it on and it FLASHED and POPPED and the red light went out.

I did not to check anything else on my own. Straight to an expert, for months and to no successful end. Glad to have the Palomino V32 which I have always wanted, a brand new old stock one from Crate.

Duffy

[jim p]

Thanks for the response. I may look into it further things are fine right now think the 300mA fuse would blow before major carnage occurs. Thing I don’t like about a multiple output supply like this one the only regulated supply is the +17 volt used for the op amps. All the others will change relative to what it requires was thinking of connecting feed back from the +430 volt through a diode to the +17 feedback so if it rises it would pull the supply down. Also was thinking of making a protection circuit that would keep the plate supply off (+430 volts) if there is no bias supply. I did add a 51 volt zener diode to the bias circuit so it has some regulation. I rewired the signal path in the amp so after the first stage you go through the tone stack then back through the other stages and relays. This way you have tone control before going through the overdrive. Have also replaced the reverb tank with a long tank, I put the short tank in a V5. So I will see how things work out for my son (it’s his amp) and maybe just cross my fingers.Thanks

[Duff]

I'd definitely call the Crate guy.

Don't say you did anything to it.

Maybe you can get a way better amp in replacement if you claim it is messed up or you have found from others that it is unreliable and that the advertising was misleading when the power supplies did not live up to the claims and you are worried about long term reliability and frankly, very shy and constantly worried that you will experience a similar problem after the warranty period and find that the amp is disposable. The Palominos and old V series were way better built according to my pro tech.

Duffy

[ibanezjunkie]

can anyone tell me the ohm rating for the speaker output of the V18-112? thanks

[Duff]

The V32 Palomino is working awesomely. Super great bloom and I like the distortion and boost too, plus it takes overdrive pedals really well.

Glad I got it. Heavy 67 lbs.

Duffy

[larryx]

:bravo: The best mod for the spring reverb in the CrateV-series mkll is to yank the P.O.S. and it's circuitry and use a digi-verb. I foung one of the best sounding verbs in the Rocktron Cyborg Digi verb. Sounds incredible! And the best part is I got mine from Mus/Frnd closeout for $49.99 By far one awesome sounding reverb unit. People scarfed them up at that price and are now ebaying them for $70 or $80 brand new factory sealed. Forget the spring. It's just never gonna sound as good. IMNSHO :master:

[ibanezjunkie]

crate V33 head

any good for rock?

[Duff]

Watch out for the new V Series Crates like the V33 head. They have switching power supplies (sps) instead of conventional power supplies.

Just got word from the pro tech auth repair ctr on a friend of mine's V100 head with the sps. He will not touch it. Says it is unshielded an could burn someone's house down and can't believe Crate built such a poorly designed and dangerous series of amps. He is definitely afraid to touch it because of being sued if someone gets electrocuted or has their house burnt down.

The previous generation V series and the V Palaminos are much better built and you can get them used very reasonably priced.

Definitely beware of those inexpensive "blow out" priced Crates. They are cheap for a reason. Only the V5 has a conventional pwr supply.

My V50 blew up and I got a replacement V32 212 Palamino with twin Cenestions in exchange from Crate; a good company, definitely but the new V series is already discontinued and the sps never worked out as the design team planned and the advertising claimed.

Duffy