Coldplay copying Satriani, what's your take?

[Lev]

Not sure if you are aware of this story but Joe Satriani is suing Coldplay for ripping off one of his tunes 'If I Could Fly'. I'm a little disappointed in Satriani, there's undoubted similarities but this does happen from time to time and I believe it's pure coincidence.

I don't believe for one second that when Chris Martin gets writers block he sticks on a Joe Satriani record for inspiration.

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/coldplay-respond-to-joe-satriani-lawsuit-186464

1ofFw9DKu_I

[Suhnton]

I think it's a bit of a stretch. It's quite a common chord progression, and only the very first part of the melody is similar. I agree with you in that I don't think JS is the first person that comes to mind when Coldplay write songs (U2 and Pink Floyd maybe...).

[Jimi75]

I bet all I own that Coldplay never ever has been inspired by any material Satriani wrote nor will ever be inspired by a Satriani record. This is ridiculous. Poor Joe S.! He might have invested all of his money in the invention of the world's greates pedal the VOX Saturator and well, now he needs some cash to pay the rent :rotflmao:

[R_of_G]

Looks like I have a different take on it.

For starters, I don't buy the "it's a common chord progression" argument because it doesn't account for the timing. The timing of the similar parts is EXACTLY the same. The video included below, which some of you have probably seen, does an excellent job of illustrating this by not only playing excerpts of both songs but by also mixing them together. When you do this, it sounds like Satch is playing a solo for the Coldplay song. The matching of both the melody and the timing seems to me to be two separate coincidences and on the probability scale this is too much for me to chalk up to coincidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I

Now, I agree that it's unlikely that Coldplay intentionally borrowed anything from Satch, but intention is irrelevant. George Harrison did not intentionally borrow the melody from The Chiffons' "He's So Fine" in the writing of "My Sweet Lord" and yet he was sued over it and he lost, the judge stating that he was guilty of "subconscious plagiarism". Whether or not any member of the band actually listens to Satriani is not the issue. It is well within the realm of possibility that one of them heard the song at some point and it stuck in his subconscious. Likely? Maybe not. Possible? Absolutely.

If I had to make a prediction, I see an out-of-court settlement in the future, which, to me, is an admission of guilt. If I knew for a fact that I were not guilty of something I'd never pay a dime to my accuser.

Call it schadenfraude if you will but I'm kind of glad this "controversy" is happening to Coldplay. They are the epitome of derivative (mostly of U2 and Radiohead).

[marnold]

I was going to post a thread on this. I didn't believe that there could be a connection until I saw that video. Same progression, same timing, same melody. Like R of G said, I never would have caught the connection between "He's So Fine" and "My Sweet Lord" to say nothing of the recent rumble between "Dani California" and "Mary Jane's Last Dance." But these two are almost stunningly similar.

Generally I'm not in favor of having people run to court all the time. It is my understanding from what I read elsewhere that Satch tried to deal with this privately but Coldplay basically ignored him. My main concern is that Coldplay is going to get even more unwarranted attention from this.

[Jimi75]

Sorry folks, but this is pure coincidence!

[R_of_G]

The similar chord changes and the similar timing make it at least two coincidences. Mathematically, for two coincidences like this to occur simultaneously is beyond highly unlikely.

[ShortBuSX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I



Coincidence or not...its hard to make an argument against that video.

[R_of_G]

Coincidence or not...its hard to make an argument against that video.

If it goes to court, and if I were Satriani's lawyer, I would play the video and rest my case. Perhaps I'd also bring in a Mathematics professor to explain probability to the judge/jury and the statistical improbability of multiple coincidences happening simultaneously.

[Tone2TheBone]

There are only so many progressions that humans can create. Eventually they'll be rehashed again somewhere along the line.

[ShortBuSX]

There are only so many progressions that humans can create. Eventually they'll be rehashed again somewhere along the line.

Ive heard that before, but thats a feeble case against that video with the 2 songs mixed...but I would be interested to know what that chord progression is.

[edit]


STANDARD TUNING - CAPO 1

INTRO: C - D - G - Em x2

[Lev]

Ive heard that before, but thats a feeble case against that video with the 2 songs mixed...but I would be interested to know what that chord progression is.

Satriani is: Bm - E - A - F#m
Coldplay is: D - E - A - F#m

I'm sure there's thousands of songs that share that progression. I'd say the main bone of contention is the melody line 'rule the world' - Db - D - B

if they weren't in the same key people wouldn't have been able to overlap them like that and the whole youtube campaign would never have started. For me it's a conincidence, Coldplay should have played ball with Satch when first contact was initiated though. And maybe Satch shouldn't have described hearing it as a 'dagger through his heart', as a musician he should at least be open to the possibility that coincidences like this can happen.

By the way I'm not a fan of Coldplay and I have pretty much every satriani CD so I've no interest in fighting Coldplays corner I just think it's a conincidence.

[R_of_G]

I don't buy the "different key" argument either. Does that mean if I play most of the melody to "Manic Depression" but do it in a different key that it's a different song? Transposition is not composition. Again, it comes down to the timing for me. Sure, chord progressions are finite and will overlap. When they overlap with the timing mirrored as well we have moved beyond coincidence.

[thearabianmage]

In all fairness - I love Satch, I really do, but he's a being a bit of a bummer about this.

'Into The Storm' by Blind Guardian's 'Nightfall in Middle Earth' is strikingly similar to a Satch tune on The Extremist called 'War' - down to the same pitch, tempo, and even harmonies. They are much more likely to take inspiration from Satch than Coldplay, but they are not as popular, so the chance that their song would make more money than his is slim, as opposed to that of Coldplay.

Now, on the other hand, Satch is, himself, one who looks to others for inspiration. He openly admits the influence Jeff Beck has on him and you can tell - really tell - in his playing. And in 2001 or so, when Beck put out a techno/industrial/dance/rock album called 'You Had It Coming', Satch funnily put out a similar sounding album very soon after called 'The Engines of Creation.'

Don't get me wrong, it's a good album, but he is in no position to bum people for 'ripping off' his tunes.

Anyway, despite mathematical chances, these things can happen, even in such complex circumstances. Especially given the fact that there are only 12 notes in music.

That's my humble opinion, anyways. . .

[R_of_G]

Anyway, despite mathematical chances, these things can happen, even in such complex circumstances. Especially given the fact that there are only 12 notes in music.

If we believe that 12 tone equal temperament is the only way at looking at things. Microtones are the new retrograde.

[thearabianmage]

If we believe that 12 tone equal temperament is the only way at looking at things. Microtones are the new retrograde.

Yes, but microtones are primarily eastern. This is western music based off of the diatonic system and the cycle of fifths. All of this theory is based around the idea of there being 12 notes.

There are some ideas that are bound to crop up once or twice.

[Spudman]

I just read in the National Enquirer that all Satriani songs are actually Carpenters songs played backwards, all except for that one Air Supply song.

[Suhnton]

I just read in the National Enquirer that all Satriani songs are actually Carpenters songs played backwards, all except for that one Air Supply song.

LOL

[Spudman]

Check out where Joe stole the song from
znrHzefl8cM&feature=related

[Robert]

End of story?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/sep/16/coldplay-joe-satriani-lawsuit-dismissed

"In the filing posted 14 September, judge Dean D Pregerson dismissed the case and ruled that each party would "bear [their] own cost" for the litigation. The stipulation, er, "upon stipulation" suggests that the parties came to an out-of-court settlement – most likely that Coldplay paid Satriani off."

[Kodiak3D]

The stipulation, er, "upon stipulation" suggests that the parties came to an out-of-court settlement – most likely that Coldplay paid Satriani off."

I hope they gave him their Grammy, too.

[oldguy]

Check out where Joe stole the song from
znrHzefl8cM&feature=related


Spud, that speaks volumes.
Should a new lawsuit be filed against Satch now?:confused:

[ragnarpk]

i didnt think anyone besides satch actually cared....

[Spudman]

Spud, that speaks volumes.
Should a new lawsuit be filed against Satch now?:confused:

That's what I'm wondering.

[Kodiak3D]

There is definitely some resemblance between Satch's song and Los Enanitos Verdes' (The Green Dwarves) song...

Please tell me they copied from someone else as well. It would be great if this song gets tracked back to some old blues song from the 20's.

[Spudman]

There is definitely some resemblance between Satch's song and Los Enanitos Verdes' (The Green Dwarves) song...

Please tell me they copied from someone else as well. It would be great if this song gets tracked back to some old blues song from the 20's.

Maybe even back to Bach or Mozart.:D Who knows? It's madness I tell ya.:thwap:

[Suhnton]

I think Just Strum should sue Joe for plagiarizing his haircut.