What Amp?

[just strum]

This is sort of like a what amp should I buy and 50 suggestions later one still doesn't know.

I will try to make it a little different in saying - I'm not buying an amp, but

For the people that have owned several over the years, does anyone have a thought on what are some of the good amps for a small practice room?

We will define small as anything from 10'x10' to 15'x18'

Amp: Keep it tube, don't venture outside of tube amp.

I know there are a lot of great amps out there, but a lot of those really are better suited for larger size rooms/gigs.

[M29]

I have to say I could not live without my Valve Junior, every time I play it I make a sigh and think...Oh Yeah! I have it in my computer room which is about 10 foot by 8 foot and it sounds great! I made up my own combo with a 12 inch speaker but I am sure the VJ combo would be fine.

M

[Robert]

Blackheart Little Giant - http://www.zzounds.com/item--BLABH5H

ltVNJvW1NgU

[ZMAN]

I would say that the perfect amp for a small room is the Blues Junior. It has a 12 inch speaker, and a great reverb. It is a master volume amp and the only thing lacking is a "Standby" switch. 15 watts and lots of power. I takes pedals well and is quite compact and easy to travel with. It can give you big tone and really can be quite loud if pushed. It comes in several editions. The normal black, and the Tweed, and you can pick up special editions like mine in a brown tolex with a wheat grille and a Jensen speaker. Some of the larger retailers have also had blonde ones. It doesn't do a lot of trick stuff like modeling, but it is just a great amp. Even some of the icons like Trower have used them in the studio to record.

[just strum]

I have to say I could not live without my Valve Junior, every time I play it I make a sigh and think...Oh Yeah! I have it in my computer room which is about 10 foot by 8 foot and it sounds great! I made up my own combo with a 12 inch speaker but I am sure the VJ combo would be fine.

M


I have the DVM Epi Jr and I am happy with it and I have to agree with you for room size. I was looking to others that fill that same situation (told the wife I need a back-up).

[just strum]

The Fender and the Blackheart are two good suggestions. I've considered the Blackheart on and off for awhile now. If I did, I'm not sure to go with the head or buy a combo when I finally do get around to buying or trading.

I still want to put new speakers in an old set of Advent cabs I have. They are great as far as construction. If I install new speakers, is there anything else I would need to do to the cab?

[oldguy]

Fender Super Champ XD.

15w, 6v6 power tubes, 10" speaker, enough digital effects for some cool sounds, footswitchable OD, lightweight, easy to move around.

Even if you don't wanna buy one......... if you get over this way, stop by and we'll jam on it for a couple hours.........I like it fine for a small amp.

[hubberjub]

If you're looking for something a little different you could check out a Soldano Astroverb. It's very compact and at 20 watts you would have no problems taking it to a gig. I got mine for <$500 (used) and I think it was a steal.

[sumitomo]

I've always been interested in the Little Lanilei from songworks,I haven't used one but I sure would like to try one.Its one of those hybrid types.Worth checking out.Sumi:D

[TS808]

I'm liking the idea of the Egnater Rebel more and more. It allows you to choose between 6V6 or EL84 tubes or you can combine them both. Also, it's rated at 20 watts, but there is a knob that allows you to dial in between 1 watt up to 20.

Another amp that I own and like is the Peavey Delta Blues 210. A jump from 15 watts (such as a Blues Jr.) to a 30 watt amp really isn't that much.

I know you said keep it all tube, but the amp I love the most for home playing is probably my Vox AD50VT 212. It maybe doesn't sound as "tube-like" as my Delta Blues. but for home playing, I think it's a great amp.

[just strum]

I'm liking the idea of the Egnater Rebel more and more.

Nice, yes - But it has divorce written all over it (Egnater is Latin for divorce).

[TS808]

Nice, yes - But it has divorce written all over it (Egnater is Latin for divorce).

I think the head goes for $599....and I would definitely view the Egnater as a keeper.

[just strum]

....and I would definitely view the Egnater as a keeper.

and the wife?

[Tarin]

It's obvious that Epi's, Blackhearts and Hot Rods were gonna be present in this thread (Blackheart's been smiling at me since a few weeks back). But what about the Peavey Royal 8?
I've read good things about it but haven't had tha chance to play it... yet.
has anybody tried them out?

[TS808]

and the wife?

Oops....yes she's a keeper too!

[just strum]

Tarin brings up a good one with the Peavey - any thoughts there?

Also, I know there are Blackheart owners out there that have had them for about a year+, how do you feel about them now that the "new toy" feeling has worn off?

[TS808]

Tarin brings up a good one with the Peavey - any thoughts there?

Also, I know there are Blackheart owners out there that have had them for about a year+, how do you feel about them now that the "new toy" feeling has worn off?

I've never tried the Royal 8, but every Peavey amp I've owned (Classic 30, Bandit 112, and now the Delta Blues) has been a real workhorse. They are built well, sound good, and in my opinion are an under-rated amp.

There is the Windsor Studio at 15 watts....that has a 12 inch speaker if I'm not mistaken.

[just strum]

There is the Windsor Studio at 15 watts....that has a 12 inch speaker if I'm not mistaken.

Yep, 12" speaker - $400

Is this a new amp or has it been around?

[TS808]

Yep, 12" speaker - $400

Is this a new amp or has it been around?

It's been out I think for about 2-3 years. It might also have a feature where there is a switch to reduce the wattage to 7 watts too.

I like the idea of a 12" speaker in any amp....the only time I ever use 10" speakers if it's a 2 x 10 amp. I just think you get a fuller sound with a 12" speaker than you would with a single 10".

[wingsdad]

... what about the Peavey Royal 8?
I've read good things about it but haven't had tha chance to play it... yet.
has anybody tried them out?

I bought one soon after they first came out. I liked price tag ($190), the old-school simplicity of the choice of hi- & lo-gain inputs one tone control with pre & post Gains and it's one of those rare tube amps with that ever-important safety-valve, a Spousal Attenuator (Jack).

I didn't care much for the Really Crummy 8" speaker, but I liked the amp a lot and was figuring to upgrade it. Then, a month after I got it, my Tech21 Trademark 60 1x12 came in to the GAS station on trade-in. I traded the Royal 8 back to help cover the T21. But my dealer has them in stock, and I favor one if I take a guitar for a test drive.

I wish I could replace it, but because it doesn't have a reverb tank, I'd look at the other options for around $2 Benjamins, too.

A used T21 Trademark 15 or Trademark 30 would hit the spot for around the price point. But alas, they're not requisitely tubal.

[marnold]

I'd personally like something like the Little Giant except with the ability to get metal-caliber gain out of it :rockon:

[tunghaichuan]

I'd personally like something like the Little Giant except with the ability to get metal-caliber gain out of it :rockon:

Put a metal-flavored pedal in front of it. :dude: Works for me. :AOK:

tung

[markb]

.
A used T21 Trademark 15 or Trademark 30 would hit the spot for around the price point. But alas, they're not requisitely tubal.

And nor do they need to be ;)

I like the Blues Jr given your required spec although having used quite a few Fender silverface amps I'd take issue with the "great reverb" comment above. I'd say its strengths are good tone and its pedal-friendliness. I used one with a TS808 reissue for a while and got many compliments.

[tunghaichuan]

Another vote for the Blackheart combo. They also make a Handsome Devil combo now that is an 18W style circuit. I got my 5W Little Giant combo on sale for $175 shipped which is a steal. Now they are about $350 :(

The 5W Little Giant is a great platform for pedals. It has a lot of clean headroom for a 5W amp and doesn't get much distortion until it is putting out a decent amount of volume. This may or may not be a good thing depending on your needs.

The 3W setting is useless to me, it puts the amp in triode mode which sounds dull and lifeless, at least to my ears. The EQ is pretty marginal, the treble works okay but the mid and bass don't have a lot of range.

The combo has a 12" speaker, and does not suffer from boxy-ness like other small, low-wattage combo amps. I'm also of the opinion that there should be at least two 10" speakers for the best sound quality, one just does not cut it. And 6" & 8" speakers are the worst, better than nothing but really pale compared to a good 12" speaker.

tung

[sunvalleylaw]

I love my C-30, but maybe that is too big for your needs. I will also vote for the Blackheart Little Giant, but vote for the head version. I played through Spud's at his house when I visited in October, and he had it hooked up the one of the cheap blow out cabs that a bunch of folks bought last year, and it sounded awesome. I think that is the best bang for the buck, for a small tube amph that I have tried so far. The Peavey Royal 8 is worth a look though. I sure seem to like Peavey products so far.

EDIT: If the specific purpose is a small practice room, I say one of the little Blackhearts. My C-30 sounds good to me in the house, but the room is not that small, and I think in a small room, the Blackheart will have more room to breathe.

[Fab4]

If you can pony up the cash (and it ain't cheap), my vote would go to the Tone King Imperial. Try one if you get a chance even if you can't buy one, because they're absolutely phenomenal in the 20w range.

http://www.toneking.com/products/imperial/index.html

[Jimi75]

The Blackheart is a cool little amp, but unfortunately it has no much clean headroom. I think it is great for players that are looking for tube overdrive all the time. I am with OLDGUY and would suggest the Super Champ XD, which is a great sounding amp with a ton of clean headroom.

[Jipes]

This is sort of like a what amp should I buy and 50 suggestions later one still doesn't know.

I will try to make it a little different in saying - I'm not buying an amp, but

For the people that have owned several over the years, does anyone have a thought on what are some of the good amps for a small practice room?

We will define small as anything from 10'x10' to 15'x18'

Amp: Keep it tube, don't venture outside of tube amp.

I know there are a lot of great amps out there, but a lot of those really are better suited for larger size rooms/gigs.

My Laney LC15 is quite a bargain for a tube amp it is very compact and quite light. The sound quality is there and it's great to home practice up to rehearsals and even gigs in small clubs.

[ZMAN]

When I was looking for a Marshall, one of the guys at a local music shop mentioned the Blackheart. He said that he was getting one. I guess the 5 watt head into a cab of some sort gives amazing tone. I have a small room and it is just crammed with amps. Two 40 watters a 15 and a 22. I am lucky I can play fairly loud but I am leaning towards a 2/12 cab, and maybe moving a couple of the amps for some room. I think the 2/12 with my Marshall and maybe another 5 watt would be more versatile.
I asked him about combos and he seemed to think that most guys were buying the smaller heads and cabs and using a mic at gigs. A lot easier to move and most venues are relatively small. For home use he said they were great.

[Andy]

The Blackheart killer ant head would be great --- 1w under $200.

[Tibernius]

Got to second Jipes' vote for the Laney LC15. Played one and it's brilliant, but a little too expensive for me.

Other than that and the Valve Jr, I'd say either an Orange Tiny Terror, Blackstar HT-5 or Blackstar Artisan 15. Not exactly cheap but I've heard them all and they sound incredible. The Blackstars in particular were the best I heard at one of the guitar shows a while ago...better than the Marshalls.

[SuperSwede]

And nor do they need to be ;)



+1

Sounds better than a lot of small wattage tube amps that I´ve played.. :beer:

[just strum]

Based on price and review, the Blackheart certainly seems to be a high consideration. I noticed Jimi and Tung differ on clean headroom, but that could be what one is satisfied with. I play mostly clean tone, so that is an important feature.

[oldguy]

You should ask those girls where you work to buy you a Fender Super Champ XD!:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[just strum]

I just noticed that the Blackheart is made by Crate. The way Crate takes a beating here and other forums, I am surprised it's rated as well as you guys say it is. It doesn't take anything away from it and it is giving me a little GAS build-up.

[tunghaichuan]

I just noticed that the Blackheart is made by Crate. The way Crate takes a beating here and other forums, I am surprised it's rated as well as you guys say it is. It doesn't take anything away from it and it is giving me a little GAS build-up.

That threw me when I first got mine, but the build quality is pretty good overall. The chassis is nice and thick, the head cab is plywood, I believe and is well made. The transformers look nice as well.

It comes stock with cheesy Chinese tubes, but to be honest, they don't sound bad.

The build quality is better than the Valve Junior, which seems slightly flimsier in comparison. Thinner chassis, the head cab isn't finished nearly as nice. The OT is smaller in the VJ as well.

tung

[just strum]

It comes stock with cheesy Chinese tubes, but to be honest, they don't sound bad.



tung

Did you leave yours in or did you replace them?

[tunghaichuan]

Did you leave yours in or did you replace them?

I left them in. I swapped out the power tube for a JJ and I couldn't really hear a difference. So I put the Chinese tube back in.

tung

[sunvalleylaw]

I just noticed that the Blackheart is made by Crate. The way Crate takes a beating here and other forums, I am surprised it's rated as well as you guys say it is. It doesn't take anything away from it and it is giving me a little GAS build-up.

Spud and I were just discussing this (his Blackheart) off forum and he was mentioning that the Crate Powerblock is also really good. So that is interesting. All I can say is I liked the sound of his Little Giant head into that cabinet he has. A whole lot of people here know a whole lot more than I do. I just like what I heard.

[Tarin]

The Crate V5 is also well built (i'm not adding this one up to the list, just pointing out that it's very well built... soundwise? that's another story).
It's all thick plywood (not particle board), sturdy chasis, tolex placed perfectly and as the Tone King claims on his website: it's a plus to be painted black on the inside if you're thinking of using it as an open-back cab.

[marnold]

IIRC, the Blackheart amphs were designed by the same guy who designed the Valve Jr. So they are produced by Crate but were designed by somebody else. For whatever that's worth.

[Tibernius]

IIRC, the Blackheart amphs were designed by the same guy who designed the Valve Jr. So they are produced by Crate but were designed by somebody else. For whatever that's worth.

So a bit like those "Duncan Designed" pickups.

[oldguy]

IIRC, the Blackheart amphs were designed by the same guy who designed the Valve Jr. So they are produced by Crate but were designed by somebody else. For whatever that's worth.


Pytor Belov, I think?
But pay attention to Tung's observations about the PCB traces and build quality........you can invent the world's greatest P,B, & J, and use stale bread and it still tastes yukky!:confused:
FWIW, Pytor also designed the So-Cal 50w head (which I love dearly), but it's really hard to find them now.........they may have quit production on them, go figure.........:thwap:

[tunghaichuan]

Pytor Belov, I think?
But pay attention to Tung's observations about the PCB traces and build quality........you can invent the world's greatest P,B, & J, and use stale bread and it still tastes yukky!:confused:


Let me qualify my statement: the build quality is pretty good. The board and traces are sturdy enough if left alone. I wouldn't buy one with the intention of modding a Blackheart by working on the PCB, though. The PCB is not ideal for modding. When I mod mine, I'm going to rip out the PCB and either do a point to point scheme or buy a replacement turret board.



FWIW, Pytor also designed the So-Cal 50w head (which I love dearly), but it's really hard to find them now.........they may have quit production on them, go figure.........:thwap:

Too bad, seems like a good amp. Probably too much power for a bedroom player though, which is why the little 5W amps have taken off in the last couple of years.

tung

[oldguy]

You're probably right, Tung, 50w is overkill for most at-home players.
BTW, we appreciate your observations on build quality and how it evolves in these amphs, and the strengths and weaknesses of each.
And to clarify my statement....... when I refer to your observations on the build quality, I was including your earlier statements about the Valve Jr. also, and the ver. 1, 2, and 3. and not just the Blackheart. My point being Belov might have designed all these amphs, but there are differences in them for whatever reasons, as far as quality of components.
e.g.....
When I did the "gold" mods to my ver. 2 Valve Jr. head, it was my first time at modding, so I took my sweet time, consulting the old 18w forum daily, doing one thing at a time, checking the results 'till I was done.
It turned out fine, but I could've really messed up the PC board if not for the warnings posted by others concerning soldering on the thing.
So, when you give us a heads up on changes (like the PCB''s) it really helps.
And for that, I thank you!:bravo:

[tunghaichuan]

You're probably right, Tung, 50w is overkill for most at-home players.


Back in the 90s I had a collection of Sundown amps, including two 100W Rebel heads. I'm at best a bedroom player, what am I going to do with 200 watts of power? I ended up liquidating them.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind having one of those SoCal heads. :dude:



BTW, we appreciate your observations on build quality and how it evolves in these amphs, and the strengths and weaknesses of each.
And to clarify my statement....... when I refer to your observations on the build quality, I was including your earlier statements about the Valve Jr. also, and the ver. 1, 2, and 3. and not just the Blackheart. My point being Belov might have designed all these amphs, but there are differences in them for whatever reasons, as far as quality of components.


Versions 1 & 2 of the VJ were marginal at best. Not bad amps, just typical, average (read:substandard) Chinese build quality. Those PCBs did suck big time. I ended up damaging the traces on two different boards and I have decent soldering equipment and am fairly good at soldering.



e.g.....
When I did the "gold" mods to my ver. 2 Valve Jr. head, it was my first time at modding, so I took my sweet time, consulting the old 18w forum daily, doing one thing at a time, checking the results 'till I was done.
It turned out fine, but I could've really messed up the PC board if not for the warnings posted by others concerning soldering on the thing.


Epiphone, to their credit, apparently listened to all the modding being discussed on the various boards and did improve the quality of their latest Ver. 3 amps. Those boards are way better quality.



So, when you give us a heads up on changes (like the PCB''s) it really helps.
And for that, I thank you!:bravo:

Cool, I am glad I can be helpful in some small way. One of the things that really irks me about music gear is shoddy construction. I've owned enough crappy equipment. I hate it when it breaks down prematurely.

To get back on topic for Strum: the BH Little Giant combo is pretty good. I'd also look at the 15W Handsome Devil combo. The Fender Blues Junior might be a good choice. Another way to go would be a replica of a Fender 5E3. Different tonality with the 6V6 tubes vs. the EL84s in the BH amps and the aforementioned Fender. Lots of choices out there, Strum.

tung

[warren0728]

Epiphone, to their credit, apparently listened to all the modding being discussed on the various boards and did improve the quality of their latest Ver. 3 amps. Those boards are way better quality.
hey tung....how can you tell if it is a version 3 head....there have been a couple on craigslist recently but i think i would want the version 3 only....thanks....

[tunghaichuan]

hey tung....how can you tell if it is a version 3 head....there have been a couple on craigslist recently but i think i would want the version 3 only....thanks....

The on/off switch will be blank and it will have a 16-digit serial # if it is a version 3. The version 2 amps had a white "I" and "0" on the on off switch and an 8-digit serial #.

tung

[warren0728]

The on/off switch will be blank and it will have a 16-digit serial # if it is a version 3. The version 2 amps had a white "I" and "0" on the on off switch and an 8-digit serial #.

tung
are the version 2 amps that much more inferior to the version 3?

[just strum]

Also, are you saying inferior from a "stock" point of view?

[tunghaichuan]

Strum & Warren:

IMHO, the stock version 2 VJ is inferior to the stock version 3 VJ. The OT is the wrong impedance (7.5K vs 5.2k), there are some odd resistor values in V2 which were improved in V3. To me, the stock V3 sounds much better. For non-modding purposes, I would get the V3.

For modding, it is a toss up but I give the edge to the V3 as you don't have to do much to get it sounding really good. With V2 it is almost necessary to change out the OT for a better one, it sounds really bad. The PCB is much better in the V3 and will hold up much better to parts changes.

One advantage that the V2 has is that there is a 12-0-12v winding on the PT. The PT in V2 was used in another Epiphone amp which had opamps. The 12-0-12v winding was used for the opamp power supply. I was able to build a fixed bias supply out of this winding. It was an interesting experiment, but I couldn't detect a difference in tone, so I switched the amp back to cathode bias. V3 lacks this winding on the PT.

OTOH if you want to do a complete gut and rebuild (replace PCB & OT), get a V2 if it is cheaper.

My $.02

tung

[warren0728]

there is a head and cab on craig's list here for $100....don't know which version it is though....

[just strum]

Mine a V1 and I've never tried the 2 or 3. DVM did the mod and it meets my needs and we all know it is quality work.

[Kazz]

A whole lot of people here know a whole lot more than I do. I just like what I heard.



+1000 This is probably the wisest thing I have heard anyone say around any forum I belong to in years.

When it comes down to a question like this that is entirely too subjective (meaning open to an individuals own likes and dislikes) What YOU like and sounds good to YOU will always win out over someone else's opinion.

[just strum]

+1000 This is probably the wisest thing I have heard anyone say around any forum I belong to in years.

When it comes down to a question like this that is entirely too subjective (meaning open to an individuals own likes and dislikes) What YOU like and sounds good to YOU will always win out over someone else's opinion.

Apparently you need to read the opening post before you make a statement that it is "too subjective".

This is exactly what I was looking for. I wanted feedback from people with actual experience with amps that are good performers in small rooms.

[Andy]

there are so many amps choices these days it's impossible to pin down even half a dozen that will fit any need.There are more amps today than in the entire history of music

not too many years ago, there were only a few brands/ amps for any given purpose. now new amps/brands pop up daily.

It's impossible anymore to pin down an answer to. whats the best amp for _____ ?

only the player can decide, suggestions will get you in the ballpark at best.
the thread could go on forever.:confused:

[just strum]

there are so many amps choices these days it's impossible to pin down even half a dozen that will fit any need.There are more amps today than in the entire history of music

not too many years ago, there were only a few brands/ amps for any given purpose. now new amps/brands pop up daily.

It's impossible anymore to pin down an answer to. whats the best amp for _____ ?

only the player can decide, suggestions will get you in the ballpark at best.
the thread could go on forever.:confused:


Andy, again this thread didn't ask for the best amp, it simply asked for peoples experience with amps they have owned or heard.

It simply is a thread with mini reviews of amps that fit the criteria of what was described in the first post.

[Andy]

Sorry , my bad .I went back and reread your posting.

I have a valve jr that I really like, it's a modded v.3.
however at 5w it's quite loud when the tubes are singing.
It's going thru an epi 1 x 12 cab, I love that lady luck speaker.

I'm tempted to buy a so-cal 4 x 12 just to rob the speakers.

[just strum]

Sorry , my bad .I went back and reread your posting.

I have a valve jr that I really like, it's a modded v.3.
however at 5w it's quite loud when the tubes are singing.
It's going thru an epi 1 x 12 cab, I love that lady luck speaker.

I'm tempted to buy a so-cal 4 x 12 just to rob the speakers.

No need to be sorry. I opened the thread the way I did because I wanted people to give first hand experience and a general guide to what is out there.

I certainly was well aware of the "what are the best strings" syndrome:D

[Katastrophe]

Way late to the party here, but I'd have to put in a vote for the Egnater Rebel 20 watt head. With the power scaling feature going from 1 watt to 20, with the "bright" and "tight" switches, it is one versatile amph. The ability to blend 6v6 and EL84 tube levels is another great feature. I got tones from "ice pick in the ear" shrill to dark and thick tones on an American Telecaster. The cleans are chimey (I put that in there just for you, Andy! :poke: :D ), and the dirty sounds are good, too.

My criteria for a small practice room would be these:

1. The amph must be small, and not take up a ton of room.
2. The amph must be portable, because the space may be used temporarily for something else.
3. The amph must be capable of screamin solos at reasonable levels.
4. The amph must be affordable.
5. The amph must be capable of a bunch of different tones, since, by definition a "small" practice room doesn't have the space to house a bunch of different amphs.

IMO, any of the small 5 watter amphs out there would fit the bill. I just like the Egnater because it packs a lot of power in a convenient and small package.

[tunghaichuan]

Good call on the Egnater. My only gripe is that it isn't affordable to me. :( And the jury is still out on its reliability. Time will tell.

The Rebel 20 has an FX loop which makes even more versatile. Add a decent multi FX unit and your good to go.

I would like to hear one with a decent set of NOS 6V6s installed, RCA, Sylvania, Tung-sol, etc. The JJ 6V6s are good, but they don't sound like a NOS 6V6 should. Not bad, just different.

tung




Way late to the party here, but I'd have to put in a vote for the Egnater Rebel 20 watt head. With the power scaling feature going from 1 watt to 20, with the "bright" and "tight" switches, it is one versatile amph. The ability to blend 6v6 and EL84 tube levels is another great feature. I got tones from "ice pick in the ear" shrill to dark and thick tones on an American Telecaster. The cleans are chimey (I put that in there just for you, Andy! :poke: :D ), and the dirty sounds are good, too.

My criteria for a small practice room would be these:

1. The amph must be small, and not take up a ton of room.
2. The amph must be portable, because the space may be used temporarily for something else.
3. The amph must be capable of screamin solos at reasonable levels.
4. The amph must be affordable.
5. The amph must be capable of a bunch of different tones, since, by definition a "small" practice room doesn't have the space to house a bunch of different amphs.

IMO, any of the small 5 watter amphs out there would fit the bill. I just like the Egnater because it packs a lot of power in a convenient and small package.

[pes_laul]

My favorites are the valve junior (not the combo) or a black heart