The Big Choke

[piebaldpython]

I just want to scream.........the IGGLES have a GOLDEN opportunity to make the playoffs. They are masters of their own destiny. Saturday nite, the Cowboys lose. Early Sunday afternoon, the Bucs loose. The door has gone from being ajar to WIDE open.
So, what do our IGGLES do?????????...........they come out FLAT and look about as uninspired as a team can be; tripped on the rug, bonked their heads on the door knob and LOST.......how the hell can that be????

[just strum]

I just want to scream.........the IGGLES have a GOLDEN opportunity to make the playoffs. They are masters of their own destiny. Saturday nite, the Cowboys lose. Early Sunday afternoon, the Bucs loose. The door has gone from being ajar to WIDE open.
So, what do our IGGLES do?????????...........they come out FLAT and look about as uninspired as a team can be; tripped on the rug, bonked their heads on the door knob and LOST.......how the hell can that be????

It could be worse - think Cleveland Browns.

Around here we use to say - "well, maybe next year". However, these days we say "GO CAVS"

[R_of_G]

As a Jets fan and a Bucs fan I'm having a difficult time empathizing with anyone else's team choking. Both of those teams had their destinies in their own hands weeks ago and decided to tank it.

Still, as a Jets fan, I can't be too disappointed. They have 9 wins which is 5 more than last season. If you do the math, it's over 100% improvement and that's hard to be too upset about. Nonetheless, this is a team that won in New England and in Tennessee so losing to Oakland, Seattle and San Francisco is simply unacceptable. I heard this morning that if they fail to make the playoffs that Eric Mangini may be fired as the coach and I would love to see that happen. He is so overrated as a coach. His whole staff is terrible. They refuse to call offensive plays that make sense for the offensive talent they have. They refuse to play a defense that makes sense at all. It's hard to blame the players too much when most of the time they are executing the plays that are called, they're just the wrong plays.

Like I said when we signed Favre, I don't expect miracles from the guy, not at age 39. I simply hope he has the same effect on the young QB's (Clemens and Ratliff) that he did on Aaron Rogers. Green Bay had a lousy season, but Rogers looked like he learned quite a bit from Favre, stuff you can't learn from just anyone.

[Andy]

the Jets sure spanked my Titans, they were on fire that day for sure.
Favre's leadership skills on the field ,in action, really make a difference.

[Bloozcat]

It could be worse - think Cleveland Browns.

Around here we use to say - "well, maybe next year". However, these days we say "GO CAVS"

I've got just one thing to say about that: BILL COWHER - 2009

[R_of_G]

the Jets sure spanked my Titans, they were on fire that day for sure.

Which is why I think the problem lies on the sidelines and not between the lines on the field. This team has plenty of talent. Thomas Jones is leading the AFC in rushing. Leading a conference that has LaDanian Tomlinson in it is pretty impressive. BTW, I think the Titans' Johnson is 2nd in the AFC so that's pretty damn impressive as well. The offensive line is much improved with the addition of Faneca and Woody. The addition of Dustin Keller gives us a TE with great hands and real intelligence. The defense added Kris Jenkins (having the best year of his career) and Calvin Pace, and Darrelle Revis is proving in his 2nd year that he is every bit the star CB in the making. The talent is there on both sides of the ball. They've shown they can beat teams like Tennessee and New England on the road. The problem is the coaching. Living in Florida, I've only gotten to see three games on tv so far. In all three of these games, the play calling has been horrible. I never liked Mangini and this season shows why. If they keep him on, they are just insuring another mediocre (at best) season.



Favre's leadership skills really make a difference.

And that's why I think regardless of the results on the field this season, it was a good move on the Jets part to get Brett. His performance on the field since the Titans game has been abysmal, but I still think he is having a positive impact on Clemens and Ratliff on the sidelines. Not many young QB's get to learn from someone with his resume. One (or both) of them is going to learn something that will help them down the line.

[just strum]

I've got just one thing to say about that: BILL COWHER - 2009

Yep, that's the buzz around town. A proven winner, ex-Browns player, ex-Browns assistant coach.

And he can make a mean guitar face.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/images-1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/images1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/images2.jpg

[marnold]

I'm a Lions fan. Don't even begin to consider thinking about mentioning "choking." They've got it down to a fine art. And the owner said that the current managing team will return next year. Apparently the only way things will change in Motown is for William Clay Ford to choke on a chicken bone.

[Bloozcat]

And that's why I think regardless of the results on the field this season, it was a good move on the Jets part to get Brett. His performance on the field since the Titans game has been abysmal, but I still think he is having a positive impact on Clemens and Ratliff on the sidelines. Not many young QB's get to learn from someone with his resume. One (or both) of them is going to learn something that will help them down the line.

It will be quite ironic if the Dolphins beat the Jets next weekend and take the AFC East in the process. After being scapegoated for years as the main poster boy for the Jets failure, Chad Pennington was unceremoniously kicked to the curb in the great rush by the Jets to sign Brett Favre, savior du jour of the franchise. So while Favre is presiding over the latest Jets late season slump, Pennington is quietly establishing himself as the leagues most efficient quarterback...and the single Dolphin player most responsible for the miraculous comeback this year.

I like Brett Favre, I always have; but for the Jets management to think that he alone was going to come in and cure the Jets pathology was very naive at best.

[piebaldpython]

Marnold and Strum.........the IGGLES sucked for many a year, so I feel your pain. However, when your team isn't good and they play that way.....that isn't CHOKING. CHOKING refers to when you shoulda/woulda/coulda WON but DIDN'T........and LOST when the other team was less than stellar too.....that is a CHOKE. Sometimes, your team should WIN but they don't because the opponent played WAY OVER their heads. That didn't happen yesterday. We stunk up the joint big time.

[R_of_G]

It will be quite ironic if the Dolphins beat the Jets next weekend and take the AFC East in the process. After being scapegoated for years as the main poster boy for the Jets failure, Chad Pennington was unceremoniously kicked to the curb in the great rush by the Jets to sign Brett Favre, savior du jour of the franchise. So while Favre is presiding over the latest Jets late season slump, Pennington is quietly establishing himself as the leagues most efficient quarterback...and the single Dolphin player most responsible for the miraculous comeback this year.

I like Brett Favre, I always have; but for the Jets management to think that he alone was going to come in and cure the Jets pathology was very naive at best.

I'm not sure anybody in the organization thought the team was a QB away from a SuperBowl, and any fan that did was deluding themselves.

The additions of many other key players in the off-season were just as important as Brett (Faneca, Woody, Pace, Jenkins). With those additions plus Brett, plus another year of development for Revis and Mangold and Leon Washington, it seemed possible for the Jets to compete. The sad thing is, they DID compete, beating New England and Tennessee. Unfortunately, they use the exact same game plan week in and week out and after those two wins, other teams were able to see how to beat the Jets.

I still believe the signing of Favre was designed to generate interest in the team and sell permanent seat licenses for the new stadium, not to save the franchise and deliver a Lombardi Trophy.

As for Pennington, I am glad he is having a good year. He always seemed like a class act. Nonetheless, with or without Favre, I was glad to see him leave the Jets. He was just not the right QB for that team. Had we not gotten Favre, I'd have rather seen Kellen Clemens get the ball this season. Chad was simply not the answer. Was Chad the only problem? No, not in the least, but he was a major problem. He is efficient, sure, but with the Jets he could not throw an accurate pass longer than 15 yards. The Jets could not stretch the field and defenses knew exactly how to play against them. With Favre, or Clemens or another QB, the long pass is an option. Like I said, I'm glad to see Chad get another chance in another city because he deserved one, but he had plenty of chances with the Jets and could not deliver.

As for next week, call me the eternal optimist, but I don't see the Jets losing at home to their most hated rivals led by their former QB on the last week of the season. East Rutherford, NJ is some place where home field advantage is a very real and tangible thing. I've been part of that crowd more than enough times to see that first hand. We'll see what actually happens, but I expect a win from Gang Green.

[Bloozcat]

Well, one thing the Jets can't automatically count on next weekend R of G...that the Dolphins can't play in cold weather. Certainly not after last weeks win in KC where the temperature at game time started at 10 degrees F and at games end was 3 degrees F.

It should be an interesting game and a good test of just how far the Dolphins have come. Could this be the year that the Dolphins end the Jets dominance? Or will the Jets finally end their usual season ending slump and rise to the occasion with everything on the line?

It'll be a good one to watch...

[R_of_G]

The all-time Jets/Dolphins series is currently 45-39-1 in favor of the Jets. Much as I despise the Dolphins, I'd hesitate to call it dominance on the part of the Jets. It's only 6 more wins than losses. That said, the Jets have won more of the recent matchups with the Dolphins.

I also don't know that I'd say the Jets have typical season-ending slumps. The recent seasons in which they have been successful have typically come with better second halves of the season than first. The years they are bad, they are bad all year (like last year). This season is a collapse and a shame.

I agree about the weather not being a major factor. If anything, it may mean both teams will have to rely on their running games, but both teams have excellent running games this season so they're pretty evenly matched on that front.

Let's also not discount the fact that the Dolphins' win in KC, regardless of weather, came against the Chiefs. They're not exactly the gold-standard for gauging wins. :rotflmao:

It will be a game worth watching this weekend. Most Jets/Dolphins games are.

[piebaldpython]

Or will the Jets finally end their usual season ending slump and rise to the occasion with everything on the line? ...

:rotflmao: JETS is a typo, right? Don't you mean baseball's NY METS?? :D Sorry, a cheap shot I know but let's face it......the METS went belly-up a couple of seasons in a row. Talk about snatching Defeat out of the jaws of Victory!! :rotflmao:

[sunvalleylaw]

I am a Tacoma native and a Seattle area sports fan. Not much to cheer about this year, especially with the Sonics being now gone. (Don't even get me started. It's criminal in my mind. I understand free market, but major sports are not true free market animals.). But the one thing I have heard of lately me that made me smile was the Seahawks/Jets game last night. YeeHah, finally something to cheer about. And my good buddy is a huge Jets fan too. LOL!!!

EDIT: I see this is really an Eagles thread, but I saw the Jets mentioned and had to chime in. ;)

[Bloozcat]

Let's also not discount the fact that the Dolphins' win in KC, regardless of weather, came against the Chiefs. They're not exactly the gold-standard for gauging wins. :rotflmao:


Neither are the Seattle Seahawks at 4-11, and the Jets just lost to them....:D
(Don't ya just hate it when that happens...;) )

For the "new" Dolphins, it's play to the level of the competition each week no matter what that might be. Just play well enough to win each matchup. Of course it's also true that the Dolphins only won two of the four games this year against teams with winning records. But, that's the upside of having finished with a 1-15 record the year before - you get a creampuff schedule the next year.

I've always followed the Dolphins as the local team, but they've never been my favorite team. The Browns have that honor...talk about long suffering fans...we're all over that :rotflmao:

[just strum]

I've always followed the Dolphins as the local team, but they've never been my favorite team. The Browns have that honor...talk about long suffering fans...we're all over that :rotflmao:

The Browns have one accomplishment this year by reminding us of "On any given Sunday" except it was Monday, Oct 13th and they beat the Giants. Probably the only highlight of the season.

We now have players fighting each other

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2008/12/dinkins_confirms_smithquinn_sp.html

[R_of_G]

Neither are the Seattle Seahawks at 4-11, and the Jets just lost to them....:D
(Don't ya just hate it when that happens...;) )

Yes, I do hate it. That's my biggest complaint about the Jets and in particular, their coaching staff. This team plays to the level of its competition, and since they were 4-12 last year, the competition is often not very good. That the same team that beat New England in New England and Tennessee in Tennessee can also lose to not only the Seahawks, but the Raiders and 49'ers is astonishing to me. These are teams the Jets should have blown right off the field, but they didn't. It's incredibly frustrating.

[ted s]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/images-1.jpg


He looks like the Predator

http://amcop.blogspot.com/PREDATOR.jpg

[just strum]

That was one ugly SOB

[just strum]

Well, the Browns set an NFL record by going 24 consecutive quarters without an offensive touchdown.

We're #1, We're #1, We're #1 :bravo:

[marnold]

Well, the Browns set an NFL record by going 24 consecutive quarters without an offensive touchdown.

We're #1, We're #1, We're #1 :bravo:
We just set an NFL record by not winning a single God-forsaken game in a league that is set up to demand mediocrity. I think we win. I thought I'd be able to laugh about this but I want to slam my face in the door.

By the by, I'm pulling for the Eagles today so the Lions get a better draft pick to screw up in the spring.

[R_of_G]

By the by, I'm pulling for the Eagles today so the Lions get a better draft pick to screw up in the spring.

Question Marnold... as a Lions' fan, do you think they should use the #1 pick on a single player or trade it for multiple later first round picks? I know I think that team is not a single player away from anything aside from maybe a 3-13 season. I think the best way to build a team for the future is to acquire as many picks as possible. It's seemed to have worked historically for Parcells and Belichick. I know it's what I wanted the Jets to do the year they drafted Keyshawn. Also, if you would use it for a single player, do you have anyone in mind?

Speaking of the Jets... is Mangini fired yet? This was inexcusable. You cannot go 8-3 and then miss the playoffs. I will spare you all the rant, unless someone wants to hear it, but my problem with the Jets comes down to terrible coaching.

[marnold]

Question Marnold... as a Lions' fan, do you think they should use the #1 pick on a single player or trade it for multiple later first round picks? I know I think that team is not a single player away from anything aside from maybe a 3-13 season. I think the best way to build a team for the future is to acquire as many picks as possible. It's seemed to have worked historically for Parcells and Belichick. I know it's what I wanted the Jets to do the year they drafted Keyshawn. Also, if you would use it for a single player, do you have anyone in mind?
Obviously the Lions need all the draft choices that they can get their hands on. The problem is that it is next to impossible to trade out of that spot anymore. High-pick rookies get paid a lot for having proven nothing. The Lions would need to find a team that a) has a lot of picks to spare, and b) believes that one of the top QBs is a Must Have. It will be a very hard trade to make and if they do make it it will be very hard to get value back.

My gut feeling is that they will have few or no suitors and they will end up picking a QB, perhaps the kid from Georgia. I heard that he comes from the same high school that former Lions great Bobby Layne came from. Not that that guarantees anything, but it was interesting. There's nobody at the top of the draft that really blows my socks into next Tuesday. Of course, who thought that Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco would have the years they are having. Since the most recent Lions first round QB choices have been Joey Harrington, Chuck Long, and Andre Ware, I'm not exactly feeling comfortable about the draft.

It shouldn't be hard to get a player that they can use since the only positions that are nailed down are K, P, #1 WR, and #1 RB. They need linemen and lots of them on both sides of the ball.

[mrmudcat]

yea fins :beer:


Have been a FinFan ever since I can remember, but although I have been around the south it all started one night in swampland gator country FLA.:master:

[just strum]

We just set an NFL record by not winning a single God-forsaken game in a league that is set up to demand mediocrity. I think we win. I thought I'd be able to laugh about this but I want to slam my face in the door.

By the by, I'm pulling for the Eagles today so the Lions get a better draft pick to screw up in the spring.

I saw that. I wasn't aware there was never a 0-16 season, I thought Tampa did it.

[Bloozcat]

Well, the Browns set an NFL record by going 24 consecutive quarters without an offensive touchdown.

We're #1, We're #1, We're #1 :bravo:

Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo...

I don't care, as long as he's not with the Browns anymore...:messedup:

[just strum]

Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo...

I don't care, as long as he's not with the Browns anymore...:messedup:


Unbelievable, six consecutive games without an offensive touchdown. Fortunately I spent little time watching them this season, maybe the equivalent of one game for the whole season.

[R_of_G]

Marnold - Well thought out. I agree with all the points you made. If they can trade, they should trade, but if not, there's really not many spots where they don't need help. I'm a defense first kind of guy, so I'd go in that direction.

Strum - The 1976 Bucs were 0-14 because the season was shorter then. The Lions are the first winless team in the era of the 16 game season.

[just strum]

Marnold - Well thought out. I agree with all the points you made. If they can trade, they should trade, but if not, there's really not many spots where they don't need help. I'm a defense first kind of guy, so I'd go in that direction.

Strum - The 1976 Bucs were 0-14 because the season was shorter then. The Lions are the first winless team in the era of the 16 game season.

That makes the 24 straight quarters without an offensive touchdown seem so meaningless.

Well, off with my big foam #1 finger and on with my other foam finger to salute the Browns since they can't even do losing right.

[R_of_G]

Truth be told, I can't decide if I'm more disappointed in my Jets or my Bucs. Both teams had their destinies in their own hands. The Bucs were 9-3 and the Jets were 8-3 and neither made the playoffs. I have some issues with the play of a handful of players on both teams but ultimately, I think Coach Gruden and Coach Mangini should be unemployed tomorrow. Both teams were poorly coached. Both coaches refused to adjust their game plans from week to week. Both coaches have no sense of urgency. Both coaches cannot learn how to use their timeouts or their replay challenges. From what I saw, the players were executing the plays that were called, they were just the wrong plays.

[pes_laul]

It could be worse - think Cleveland Browns.

Around here we use to say - "well, maybe next year". However, these days we say "GO CAVS"
or the detroit lions:thwap:

[just strum]

Truth be told, I can't decide if I'm more disappointed in my Jets or my Bucs. Both teams had their destinies in their own hands. The Bucs were 9-3 and the Jets were 8-3 and neither made the playoffs. I have some issues with the play of a handful of players on both teams but ultimately, I think Coach Gruden and Coach Mangini should be unemployed tomorrow. Both teams were poorly coached. Both coaches refused to adjust their game plans from week to week. Both coaches have no sense of urgency. Both coaches cannot learn how to use their timeouts or their replay challenges. From what I saw, the players were executing the plays that were called, they were just the wrong plays.

Crennel should be available tomorrow.

My gosh, I just saw the Eagles made the playoffs.

[Childbride]

i will eat crow and like it.

my parents gave me a childhood and a work ethic, and then i was on my own.

you don't deserve anything you don't earn, and the 'boys deserved nothing today.

ka rolls like a wheel. or something.

[R_of_G]

i will eat crow and like it.

my parents gave me a childhood and a work ethic, and then i was on my own.

you don't deserve anything you don't earn, and the 'boys deserved nothing today.

ka rolls like a wheel. or something.

Insulting the Cowboys and referencing the Dark Tower. Best post ever. CB wins the thread.:bravo:

I know what you mean though. The Jets and Bucs got exactly what they deserved for the efforts they put in. Much as I hate the Dolphins, they earned their spot in the playoffs. I still hope they get crushed, but they deserve to be there, and kudos for Chad Pennington. He's always been a class act. I can't say I was sorry to see him go, but he's had a hell of a season in Miami and deserves to win "comeback player of the year".

[marnold]

Well, reports are that Marinelli and Mangini are both canned. No surprise with the former, some with the latter.

If there had been a 16 game season back in the 70s, Tampa Bay would've lost them all. They proceeded to lose their first 12 games the next year. Having said that, they were an expansion franchise where the rules were set to basically guarantee failure. The Lions had to suck the old fashioned way. FWIW, they've lost their last 17 and 23 out of the last 24.

*Update* AARRRGGHH! The Detroit Free Press is reporting that two leftovers from the Millen regime will take over as president and GM. I'm not surprised. Well, enjoy kicking our @$$e$ for the next decade.

[R_of_G]

You're right about the Bucs/Lions comparison Marnold. The Bucs are still historically more futile, but they were still building a real franchise. The Lions are one of the oldest franchises in the game. It's got to sting Lions' fans more than 1976 stung Bucs fans.

I'm surprised at the Mangini firing too, although pleasantly surprised. 23-25 over three years is not acceptable. Taking a team to 8-3 only to finish 9-7 is not acceptable. Losing to Oakland, San Francisco and Seattle is not acceptable. Losing on the final day of the season at home to the Dolphins is not acceptable.

Mangini simply refused to coach properly. When they won, it was in spite of his game plan, which never changed once in the three years he was with the team. All season long the fans were left wondering where the pass rush was. Yesterday, after 15 games, they finally decided to blitz and what happened? They got to Pennington and he coughed up the ball. For some reason, they did not blitz again the rest of the game. A coach that cannot adjust his strategy, especially when something proves effective, is a coach that should be unemployed.

I will spare you the rant about not being able to stop the "wildcat" offense. Suffice it to say that that offense is a complete gimmick and is stopped saturday after saturday by college teams. There is no excuse for the Jets not to have a plan for it after Miami ran it since week 3.

On the offensive side of the ball, Mangini is clueless. He continues to try to throw on 3rd and 1. If you know the QB is iffy and prone to throw INT's, and you also have the AFC's leading rusher in Thomas Jones, why do you always throw on 3rd and 1? Why on 3rd and 8 does Mangini call 7 yard passing plays time after time? Why does he have no sense of urgency in clock management. At the end of the second half yesterday came the perfect example. With 14 seconds to go Favre refused to call time out, instead he chose to spike the ball with 8 seconds to go, costing the Jets and entire down. Coaches can call time-outs from the sideline and there was no excuse for Mangini not to do so. It's his team, he's in charge.

I blame him, at least in part, for the drafting of Vernon Gholston. It should have been obvious that Gholston's game would not translate to the NFL. It sure as hell was obvious to every Jets fan I know. We've been calling VG "The Invisible Man" all season bc when he's on the field he does absolutely nothing. He is utterly useless. What burns me about it is that there were so many legitimate defensive talents taken with picks right after we wasted the #6 pick on Gholston. I'd like to see him cut. He's a waste of time.

There are so many more reasons I am glad to see Mangini gone. Frankly, I wanted him fired after last season. He proved to me then that he couldn't do the job. I'm just glad Woody Johnson decided that it was time to let him go.

Now I wonder who's coming next. Rumors abound, but I'd like to see a legit search instead of just hiring someone who used to coach somewhere else. I'd much rather see a young defensive coordinator get a shot at building a real defense and a real team than having Marty Schottenheimer come in and prove yet again that he can go 14-2 and not win a playoff game. The guy is the greatest regular season coach ever. He cannot win in the playoffs.

[R_of_G]

At least some Lions' fans are taking advantage of the situation and handling it with good humor...

http://since57.com/

[just strum]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/lets-go-cavs-640x480.gif

[marnold]

At least some Lions' fans are taking advantage of the situation and handling it with good humor...

http://since57.com/
Yeah, I've seen that site before and saw them on ESPN2. I want one of their original t-shirts that simply said "Rebuilding Since 1957."

[just strum]

Crennel - out

Mangini - out (and maybe back in - see below)

Marinelli -out



Lerner (Browns owner) intends to speak with another front office executive, but wouldn’t divulge his name for competitive purposes.

As for his coaching search, Lerner said Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, a 32-year-old native of Canton, Ohio, was on his list and that he will likely contact Eric Mangini, who was fired Monday by the New York Jets. Mangini began his pro career as an intern with Cleveland in the 1990s.

[R_of_G]

Good luck with Eric Mangini. In his stint with the Jets, he'd have had to have won 1 more game to achieve mediocrity (23 wins, 25 losses). If I were a Browns fan, I'd be more interested in Spagnuolo or McDaniel than Mangini.

Speaking of Browns coaching, it would appear the next coach will not be Bill Cowher who has told the team he is not interested.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/12/cowher-tells-br.html

He has agreed to speak with the Jets though. Intriguing for sure. Much more so than Marty Schottenheimer. I guess we wait and see what happens. Whoever the next Jets coach is, I hope they bring a little more enthusiasm to the job than Mangini who has the same range of emotion as Keanu Reeves.

[just strum]

Good luck with Eric Mangini. In his stint with the Jets, he'd have had to have won 1 more game to achieve mediocrity (23 wins, 25 losses). If I were a Browns fan, I'd be more interested in Spagnuolo or McDaniel than Mangini.

Speaking of Browns coaching, it would appear the next coach will not be Bill Cowher who has told the team he is not interested.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/12/cowher-tells-br.html

He has agreed to speak with the Jets though. Intriguing for sure. Much more so than Marty Schottenheimer. I guess we wait and see what happens. Whoever the next Jets coach is, I hope they bring a little more enthusiasm to the job than Mangini who has the same range of emotion as Keanu Reeves.

The Bill Cower thing was interesting. Lerner met with him and he said he is too focused on his kids to come back right now and then ESPN reports he's meeting with the Jets.

The Josh McDaniels thing is interesting, but they keep saying that they want an experienced head coach. The Big Tuna is being mentioned, I'm not sure the reason he would leave Miami (haven't really followed that)

[R_of_G]

The Bill Cower thing was interesting. Lerner met with him and he said he is too focused on his kids to come back right now and then ESPN reports he's meeting with the Jets.

The Josh McDaniels thing is interesting, but they keep saying that they want an experienced head coach. The Big Tuna is being mentioned, I'm not sure the reason he would leave Miami (haven't really followed that)

If it's a choice between coordinators, I'd take Spagnuolo over McDaniels. Firstly, because I believe it's been proven that defense wins championships and Spagnuolo knows defense better than just about anyone. The only real upside I see in McDaniels is the possibility that wherever he goes he make take Matt Cassels with him as a free agent. However, given the uncertainty surrounding the timing of Tom Brady's recovery, it is extremely likely the Patriots will slap the "franchise player" tag on Cassels and then he won't be going anywhere regardless of McDaniels.

As for Parcells, here's some background on why he would and could leave Miami.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gBdpI2lxq6RW5M0Xwo3C6QBPCQSwD95CI5F00

In short, if the Dolphins are sold by Wayne Huizenga, Parcells' contract allows him to leave after one season and still receive the $12 million remaining on his four-year contract. Huizenga recently agreed to sell the team. I think Parcells would be stupid not to opt out. How can you turn down what amounts to a free $12 million?

[just strum]

Firstly, because I believe it's been proven that defense wins championships ...


...and still receive the $12 million remaining on his four-year contract. Huizenga recently agreed to sell the team. I think Parcells would be stupid not to opt out. How can you turn down what amounts to a free $12 million?

I agree with the defense theory, but that didn't work out with Crennel (side note: Crennel has offered to stay on as an assistant).


As for Parcells: I should have thought of the $12 million when I signed up with the company I start with next week - certainly would have resolved the GAS fund issue.

[R_of_G]

Agreed on Crennel. He just wasn't the guy. I'm not saying defensive coordinators are always the right choice (see also Herman Edwards) but in a purely philosophical sense, I'd always choose to build a defense before building an offense. The Baltimore Ravens won a Super Bowl with an offense that was mediocre at best (Trent Dilfer at QB).

As for Cowher and the Jets, it is being reported this morning that it's a no-go. Cowher said he'd only be interested in returning in 2009 if he could bring his choice of player personnel person with him. The Jets said no, that Mike Tannenbaum would remain as GM. Despite my ambivalence about whether or not I wanted Cowher with the Jets, I think this is a mistake on the Jets part. Tannenbaum is almost as much to blame as Mangini. Sure, he signed some key free agents in the off season, but it doesn't take a genius to know Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Calvin Pace and Kris Jenkins would be great. They were already great.

However, Tannenbaum cannot seem to figure out the draft. He is the person most responsible for Vernon Gholston, who may be the biggest bust for the Jets ever. He is responsible for D'Brickashaw Ferguson who is not impressive at all. On the plus side, he did draft Darelle Revis, but anyone could see that kid was one of the best CB prospects in years. What pains me is that instead of Gholston, they could have drafted Mike Jenkins (from my USF Bulls) who could have worked the opposite corner from Revis and given Gang Green two superb cover corners for years to come. Jenkins was one of the few bright spots for the Cowboys this year.

[just strum]

Offense gets you through the season and maybe into the playoffs, defense gets you the Super Bowl.

Going back to basketball for a moment, the Cavs success is based in defense and their higher scoring is based on breakaways created by defense.

[R_of_G]

The basketball analogy is a good one.

Defense creates offense. It's more direct in basketball and hockey where the players play both offense and defense, sometimes simultaneously, but it's still true in football. A good defense gives their offense more time with the ball. The more chances an offense has, the more likely they will score points.

On the other hand, a good offense can only go so far. If your team scores a lot of points but cannot stop the other team from scoring, you will lose as much as you will win. A team like Pittsburgh or Baltimore doesn't have to score a lot of points because they don't give up a lot of points. If Pittsburgh puts up 17 points against you, you might be in big trouble because it's hard to score three times against them.

I would always rather my team play strong defense.

[just strum]

I would always rather my team play strong defense.

And don't forget field position.

Oh and baseball, nothing like a great pitcher on the mound and maybe a quick shortstop. Personally I would take a pitcher's duel over a home run derby any day.

[R_of_G]

And don't forget field position.
I did forget that. Excellent point.



Oh and baseball, nothing like a great pitcher on the mound and maybe a quick shortstop. Personally I would take a pitcher's duel over a home run derby any day.
I agree completely Strum. It's why I prefer the National League to the American League.

In all sports I prefer defensive struggles to high-scoring games. The most exciting hockey games I've ever seen were 1-0, not 5-4.

[just strum]

I agree completely Strum. It's why I prefer the National League to the American League.



National League also makes the manager have to think more and spit less.:)

[marnold]

Yeah, but what do you do when you only have an awesome WR, K, and P? The answer? Go 0-16.

[just strum]

Yeah, but what do you do when you only have an awesome WR, K, and P? The answer? Go 0-16.

Put them on defense.

[R_of_G]

Yeah, but what do you do when you only have an awesome WR, K, and P? The answer? Go 0-16.

Trade Calvin Johnson to the Jets? Sorry, wishful thinking.

By the way, I think you also have an awesome RB in the making with Kevin Smith. I got to see much of his career as UCF is but 70 miles from here and they get plenty of tv coverage in this area. That kid is going to be spectacular.

It's probably a good thing the Lions have a good punter since they are in a position to punt so often.

[marnold]

Trade Calvin Johnson to the Jets? Sorry, wishful thinking.
There's a part of me that would say trading him wouldn't be the worst idea just because we have so many needs. However, you don't trade the only player who is worth seeing. He is Sanders-esque in that when he touches the ball, you hold your breath a bit, wondering what he will do next. That second touchdown against the Packers was a classic example.


By the way, I think you also have an awesome RB in the making with Kevin Smith. I got to see much of his career as UCF is but 70 miles from here and they get plenty of tv coverage in this area. That kid is going to be spectacular.
I hope you are right. Even though the Lions will always play at least nine games in domes, they need to be able to run the ball effectively, especially in the NFC Norris.


It's probably a good thing the Lions have a good punter since they are in a position to punt so often.
With the Lions' D this year, field position was immaterial.

[just strum]

There will be some teams that will go after Mike Shanahan. Hasn't had success of late, but I think he doesn't have to worry about another job.

[R_of_G]

There's a part of me that would say trading him wouldn't be the worst idea just because we have so many needs. However, you don't trade the only player who is worth seeing. He is Sanders-esque in that when he touches the ball, you hold your breath a bit, wondering what he will do next. That second touchdown against the Packers was a classic example.


I agree. Aside from Steve Smith who is the most exceptional receiver I've seen since Rice, I think Johnson is the best in the league. I don't typically want the Jets to use first round picks for offense, but the year Johnson came out I was praying they'd get him. It was so obvious how good he was going to be, and what's more remarkable about him is how good he's been on a team where he hasn't exactly had a stellar QB to get him the ball. He still makes it happen. He is something special and I'd never trade him if he played for me.

Strum, you are right about Shanahan. He will only be out of a job as long as he wants to be. He could pretty much have his pick of NFL jobs. Two Super Bowl rings speak volumes. I was surprised Denver let him go, but I understand it. He ran his course there and lately has trended towards mediocrity. That said, I think he's an excellent coach and in another setting, he will excel again. I'd be thrilled to see him in green next season.

[just strum]

Mangini has been selected as the Browns head coach.

Crennel: Most likely defensive coordinator.

Where's my plaid sports coat???

[R_of_G]

Perhaps Mangini will work out better for Cleveland than he did for the Jets. Or, perhaps he will continue to be mediocre. I sincerely hope the Jets new coach is not one of their current coordinators. I have exactly one candidate. Rex Ryan.

[marnold]

Looks like Stafford is willing to be the sacrificial victim for the Lions. If they can't trade out of the pick, they might as well nab him. I read an interview with Ron Wolf recently where he said the first thing he'd do if he were in charge of the Lions is get a QB. That offensive lineman from Alabama wouldn't be a bad choice but the suspension for the Sugar Bowl raises all kinds of red flags. We've had enough under-performing lineman head-cases. That's especially true now because if the Lions are to recover any time soon, they can't blow this pick.

[R_of_G]

As I've said previously, I think it would strongly benefit the Lions to trade out of that pick. There are many teams that are after someone like Stafford and many of these teams would be willing to part with multiple picks to get him. It offers the Lions an opportunity to upgrade at more than one position at a time.

It's not that they can't use Stafford, most teams could use a good QB, but if they expect to draft a rookie QB and become the Falcons, it ain't happening.

[marnold]

As I've said previously, I think it would strongly benefit the Lions to trade out of that pick. There are many teams that are after someone like Stafford and many of these teams would be willing to part with multiple picks to get him. It offers the Lions an opportunity to upgrade at more than one position at a time.

It's not that they can't use Stafford, most teams could use a good QB, but if they expect to draft a rookie QB and become the Falcons, it ain't happening.
I agree, but as I said before the chances of them being able to trade out of that pick is very slim. If they can pull it off and get value--do it and do it yesterday. The reality is that the #1 pick is more of a liability than a blessing. You have to overpay for a player that has proven nothing.

There was an article on the Detroit News urging the team not to pick a QB #1. He actually suggested drafting USC's safety as an option. I'll take a massive lineman (O or D) #1, but I can't fathom drafting a safety #1.

Of course I know what will happen. Either Detroit will draft Stafford and he'll be a bust (either due to organizational instability or lack of real NFL talent) or they'll pick somebody else and Stafford will go on to start for another team for 10 years. Whatever happens, they need all their first-day and at least half of their second-day picks to be long-term starters or big-time backups.

[R_of_G]

There was an article on the Detroit News urging the team not to pick a QB #1. He actually suggested drafting USC's safety as an option. I'll take a massive lineman (O or D) #1, but I can't fathom drafting a safety #1.

In the era of Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed, I would definitely take a safety if there was a promising enough prospect, which this kid may be. Maybe not. Like you said, it's not easy to tell with guys who have proven nothing on an NFL field.

Either way, the Lions can only go up from here. It can't get worse. Well, I suppose back to back 0-16 seasons would be worse, but what are the odds of that happening?

I know how you feel about the prospects of what might happen. I've watched a lifetime of Jets draft picks bust while the guys taken at the same position after them became stars. Do I even need to mention they drafted Ken O'Brien instead of Dan Marino? In all fairness, O'Brien was not a bust. He was a perfectly competent QB, but he was not even close to Marino who was one of the best to ever play the position. I still get irritated thinking about drafting Blair Thomas instead of Emmitt Smith. Another wise move by the Jets there. Or more recently, the drafting of Vernon Gholston over Jerrod Mayo. Gholston could barely make the team and didn't even play in the last few games while Mayo was defensive rookie of the year. That one was a major mistake.

[R_of_G]

Are there any questions remaining on why this Jets fan wants Rex Ryan as the next coach? Once more the Ravens showed what defense can do. Tennessee put up a lot of yards, but only got 10 points for their efforts.

Reports say the Jets have three top prospects... Ryan, Steve Spagnuolo (Giants Def. Coordinator) and Brian Schottenheimer (Jets Offensive Coordinator). I thought Schottenheimer should have been fired along with Mangini. The offensive play calling this season was atrocious. Spagnuolo is a great coordinator and I will be satisfied if we get him, but I'd rather have Ryan. He seems to have a defensive scheme for every possible offensive scheme the Ravens face.

Congrats to the Ravens for making the AFC Championship game. I hope the Steelers win tomorrow because I would love to see those two defenses play for the AFC spot in the Super Bowl. That game could easily finish 3-0 and be the greatest game ever.

On the NFC side of things I don't really care what happens. None of those teams really does anything for me.

[marnold]

Well, it's official. The Lions have hired the Titan's Jim Schwartz to be their new head coach. I guess that's something.

[R_of_G]

I suppose that's a fairly safe choice. I hope it works out for the Lions.

[R_of_G]

ESPN is reporting that the Buccaneers have fired John Gruden. It was at least a year too late for me.

The guy has done NOTHING for the Bucs. He came in and inherited a team that Rich McKay built and Tony Dungy and Monte Kiffin coached to a high level and he got all the credit for the Super Bowl win. After that, the Bucs have been the model of inconsistency.

Gruden has demonstrated time and time again that he (A) has no sense of urgency, (B) is a joke as an offensive play caller, (C) cannot figure out how to use the replay challenge correctly, (D) does not understand what the draft is for, and so much more. I am sure he will get another NFL job soon bc that's the way it works, but if ever there were a completely overrated coach, it's Gruden.

If he comes to your team, best of luck to you because he's terrible.

So long Chucky, and thanks for nothing.

[marnold]

I think Chucky's biggest issue is his abject lack of trust for any quarterback. I don't think he's had a great one down there, but you can't keep throwing QBs out there just to see what might work.

Oh, and Bucs management sure picked a profoundly stupid time to do this.

[R_of_G]

Gruden's problem re QB's is that he didn't learn the lesson that played out right in front of him in 2002. He won a Super Bowl with Brad Johnson and a tremendous defense. Is anyone going to tell me Brad Johnson is a star QB? The lesson is all you need at QB is competence. See also Baltimore winning a championship with Trent Dilfer. Gruden could not see that.

As for Bucs management and their timing, I agree they are way off. Gruden should have been fired last year. Seriously though, their timing is really only poor for Gruden as far as finding a job for 2009. As for the Bucs themselves, they don't have to worry about being late to the game for finding a new coach for themselves. They are going to promote Raheem Morris to the head coaching job.