As long as the NBA came up . . .

[sunvalleylaw]

Since Strum said this in another thread:



http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/lets-go-cavs-640x480.gif


which made me think of the NBA, and my first interests in sports when I was a kid, so . . . I just wanted to make it clear that no one is allowed to cheer for, or even mention the Seattle Thunder or Oklahoma City Supersonics or whatever they are now. It is just plain CRIMINAL!! :reallymad: :flamemad: :spank: that the Seattle Supersonics have been taken from the city, and that it was allowed to happen. Grrrrr . . . and that is all I have to say about that. Robert, please amend the FAQ's appropriately. ;) :thwap:

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[just strum]

Earlier this year when I saw on the schedule we were playing the Thunder, my first reaction - who the hell are they? I never know what's going on over on the left side of the country. There are some things you just don't mess with and this should have been one of them.

[sunvalleylaw]

Thanks for the support Strum. I was thinking as I wrote this of listening on the AM radio from the back seat of the family wagon to the broadcasts back in the '70's, especially when the Sonics took the title. Slick Watts, Downtown Freddy Brown, Tommy Burleson, and many others were heros of mine from that era, and I loved listening with my Dad. I do not have that chance with my kids. I guess I will encourage them to be Trailblazers fans. I like the Blazers too, but it is not the same thing.

[just strum]

when it comes to the NBA, this town is pumped. The Cavs are beating the tough teams and destroying the mediocre teams. The third quarter use to be our downfall, now it's usually the Cavs strongest quarter. The great thing is it's all being done with Lebron playing fewer minutes than any other season since he's been in the NBA. Mo Williams is playing great ball and the team is a real tight unit.

[just strum]

Big game tonight for the Cavs against the Boston Celtics

"Cavaliers improved to 19-0 at home by beating the staggering Boston Celtics 98-83 Friday night in a game oozing with postseason intensity."



"James scored 38 points, James scored 23 in the second half. He added seven rebounds, six assists, four steals and three blocks."



http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28583977/

[R_of_G]

I am hoping the Cavs finish with a better record than the Celtics this year. Without home court advantage, I question how far the Celtics would have gone last year. They were a great team for sure, but they wound up in several Game 7 situations. If they have to play a 7 on the road, things might be different.

As a Knicks fan, I have to get my enjoyment watching other teams right now. It's still a long wait to summer 2010 when the Knicks plan to buy a new team. At this point I'm enjoying watching all the potential free agents to see who I wish they'd go after (aside from the obvious in L.J.)

[just strum]

The last 13 games that the Cavs and the Celtics have played against each other were won by the home team - that includes the seven played in last yers playoffs.

The two games this year had playoff intensity, with technical fouls and some serious banging under the boards.

[R_of_G]

Home court advantage in the NBA may be more significant than any other sports league. I couldn't find statistics to see for sure, but it looks that way fairly often to me.

Call it schadenfraude if you will, but I am enjoying this slump for the Celtics. I am sure they will rebound from it and be a contender in the East this year, but it's nice that they're not a forgone conclusion to win it all.

I'm also enjoying how often the Cavs are on tv. I can watch LeBron every night. Every time I think he can't get better, he gets better. He reminds me more and more of Magic Johnson every time I see him play. Those skills at that size, that's quite a combination.

[sunvalleylaw]

I miss the Supersonics.

[just strum]

I miss the Supersonics.

When the Browns left, it really didn't bother me. However, I don't want to see the Cavs ever leave and that was my view before Lebron.

When it comes to being a spectator of a sporting event (made sure of that distinction before the porn comments came flowing in), basketball is my true love.

[R_of_G]

I think OKC might want to send them back sometime soon. :rotflmao:

Seriously though, I'd miss them too. I'd love to see Kevin Durant play live. That kid is awesome. Seattle got screwed royally on that move.

I wish Tampa had an NBA team. I'm not driving to Orlando to see the Magic. The NBA is the one pro-sport we are missing in this area but we'll never have a team with the Magic 75 miles away.

[sunvalleylaw]

The Sonics were there long before the Seahawks and the Mariners, who were farm (EDIT: I mean new franchise) teams when I was a teenager, and there is a lot of history. Ok, enough dwelling in the past about it. I have no idea how the Trailblazers are doing, but I am going to root for them.

[R_of_G]

I believe the Blazers are currently 6th in the West. So not great, but still in a playoff spot.

I still think the Blazers made a terrible choice in drafting Greg Oden instead of the afforementioned Kevin Durant. Between injuries and just not being the dominant big man he was billed to be, Oden is reminding a lot of people of Sam Bowie and that is not a good person to be compared to. Durant, on the other hand, was a no-brainer. He made the transition with ease and is now a star in the making. Oden may still come around and be a good player, but he's not #1 pick material.

I'm glad we're talking NBA. I prefer NCAA to NBA for basketball, but I still love the NBA as well. Basketball was the one sport I just could not play well, but I love watching it. When I lived in NJ I went to many many Knicks games over the years. I miss MSG and as bad as they are, I miss my Knicks.

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, I am motivated to get to know the Blazers team now and actually follow it a bit. I gave up basketball myself in junior high when the coach made me choose between hoop and skiing. (Ski ya later coach!) But it is the first spectator sport I was a fan of, before football even.

[just strum]

Iasketball was the one sport I just could not play well, but I love watching it.

Ditto (well for me, more than one) I love the sport and when I see the game played with passion and watch the moves these guys make, I am just blown away.

March Madness Baby!!!

[R_of_G]

Interested in the Blazers, two words for you... Rudy Fernández. The guy is quite good.

[just strum]

Ok, I am motivated to get to know the Blazers team now and actually follow it a bit. I gave up basketball myself in junior high when the coach made me choose between hoop and skiing. (Ski ya later coach!) But it is the first spectator sport I was a fan of, before football even.

Here you go Steve, a little ray of sunshine for the Fretter without his team.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28543675/

[just strum]

Lebron James is unbelievable.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28700568/site/21683474/

He is also in a commercial tomorrow for State Farm where he plays a Cleveland Browns receiver. It will be shown during the playoff games. - Lord knows the Browns could use him.

[R_of_G]

One of the (many) things that make LeBron the most dangerous player in the game is that he has he ability to play all 5 positions on the court if need be.

I also love how they refer to the Chicago game as his "worst game" of the season. While that is statistically true, he still scored over 20 points. So even on a crappy night, LeBron is better than most players in the league.

As for football, I'm sure he can go up and get the high passes, but I'd make him a linebacker at his size. I'm positive if I had the ball I wouldn't want LeBron chasing me.

[Kazz]

Is there no off season with pro basketball any more? The product is so diluted I just do not care to watch it any more. I will say Lebron is all they said he was....he is pretty phenomenal to watch.

[just strum]

I also love how they refer to the Chicago game as his "worst game" of the season. While that is statistically true, he still scored over 20 points. So even on a crappy night, LeBron is better than most players in the league.



28 pts; 14 rebounds; 7 assists; 1 steal; 1 blocked shot against Chicago. His downfall, 8 turnovers and although I don't know the total, his foul shooting looked like last year (an area he has improved greatly). He also took a lot of shots, so the 28 pts don't tell the real story. If you watched the game you could tell it was an off night despite his stats.

He is the second most efficient player in the NBA today (behind Shaq) and 5th all-time in the NBA. Kevin Garnett and Kobe rank 14th and 15th respectively.

[just strum]

Is there no off season with pro basketball any more? The product is so diluted I just do not care to watch it any more. I will say Lebron is all they said he was....he is pretty phenomenal to watch.

I think baseball, football and basketball has become very diluted and players are getting on teams that would never had been considered in years past.

[R_of_G]

28 pts; 14 rebounds; 7 assists; 1 steal; 1 blocked shot against Chicago. His downfall, 8 turnovers and although I don't know the total, his foul shooting looked like last year (an area he has improved greatly). He also took a lot of shots, so the 28 pts don't tell the real story. If you watched the game you could tell it was an off night despite his stats.

I did watch the game and he did look "off" but like I said, off for LeBron are still better than good nights for most players. He is as good as it gets and he's still so young. Barring injuries, there is still so much upside potential to LeBron. I've said it before, but he reminds me more and more of Magic Johnson every time I get to see him play.

I also think the Cavs made a great move picking up Mo Williams. This team is now deep enough to really contend with Boston in a long series.

[just strum]

For those people that like basketball, Lebron's performance Friday against the Milwaukee Bucks was amazing. I didn't realize that they were on TV Friday and missed the game, but living outside of Cleveland provided plenty of highlights

LeBron James scored 55 points, coming up just one shy of his career high, and put together a stunning scoring flourish after halftime that helped the Cleveland Cavaliers beat the Milwaukee Bucks 111-103 on Friday night.

James scored 16 points in the first 2:50 of the third quarter, almost single-handedly turning a six-point halftime deficit into an eight-point Cavaliers lead (chron.com)

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[R_of_G]

It was another in what is becoming a long line of great performances by LeBron. With every new time I watch him play, he reminds me more and more of Magic. Their are so many similarities in their games. What's exciting about LeBron is that he's still so young. As remarkable as he already is, his game has consistently improved every year, and if he keeps improving at this pace, there's no telling what he can achieve.

[just strum]

It was another in what is becoming a long line of great performances by LeBron. With every new time I watch him play, he reminds me more and more of Magic. Their are so many similarities in their games. What's exciting about LeBron is that he's still so young. As remarkable as he already is, his game has consistently improved every year, and if he keeps improving at this pace, there's no telling what he can achieve.

He has improved at the foul line, but it's a weak area, as is the 12' to 15' jumper. However, any player today would gladly accept his game.

Speaking of Magic, they are showing Magic interviewing Lebron at halftime of the Boston vs Phoenix game today.

[R_of_G]

He has improved at the foul line, but it's a weak area, as is the 12' to 15' jumper. However, any player today would gladly accept his game.

True, it's still not his strong suit, but this year he is better than last year in those areas and last year he was better than the year before that so he keeps making progress. In two more years, it will be impossible to stop LeBron from scoring from anyplace on the floor.



Speaking of Magic, they are showing Magic interviewing Lebron at halftime of the Boston vs Phoenix game today.

Yep, saw that promo. Will be watching to see the interview. I would think the network will play up the parallels and show some Magic highlights and some LeBron highlights to accentuate the comparison.

[wingsdad]

...I would think the network will play up the parallels and show some Magic highlights and some LeBron highlights to accentuate the comparison.
Yeah...like Magic leading his team to actually beat the Celtics.:poke:

[just strum]

Yeah...like Magic leading his team to actually beat the Celtics.:poke:

I googled to see how many times Magic beat the Celtics in the Finals - I found that not only did he never beat them in the finals, there is no record of him ever beating them in his career. The same can not be said for the Lakers.

[R_of_G]

Yeah...like Magic leading his team to actually beat the Celtics.:poke:

Shall we compare supporting casts? Magic had Kareem at center. LeBron has Anderson Varejao and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. LeBron is still extremely young and has plenty of time to develop a post-season reputation, but let's give credit where it's due since the guy pretty much does it himself.

[wingsdad]

I googled to see how many times Magic beat the Celtics in the Finals - I found that not only did he never beat them in the finals, there is no record of him ever beating them in his career. The same can not be said for the Lakers.
:thwap: My ignorance just shows you that I'm not a Lakers fan, but rather a Celtics fan transplanted to the Left Coast, with this season's whitewash whooping of the Cavs (2-0?:bootyshake: ) fresh enough in my memory, and with all the classic Magic vs. Larry Bird battles faded enough after almost 30 years that I didn't realize Bird won them all. :eek:


...let's give credit where it's due since the guy pretty much does it himself.
:master: No argument there. He's even learned how to distribute the ball this year. King LeBron is a great player; one can only imagine how the Browns would do if his dream in that commercial for one of the products he 'endorses' actually came true.

[just strum]

Lebron got his third triple-double in a row (two on the road) and for those of you that like defense, check out Jason Richardson trying to get cute with the 360 dunk.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3975986&categoryid=2378529

you'll have to deal with a commercial, but for basketball fans, worth the wait.

[R_of_G]

LeBron is putting on a show these days, no doubt about it. Right now he, Kobe and Dwyane Wade are all on fire.

[marnold]

I've gotten a good laugh at my Pistons who went 4-12 bringing Rip off the bench, but have gone 6-2 (including wins over Boston, Orlando twice, and Denver) since AI got injured. AI is still "The Answer." It's just that the question now is, "How will Detroit have tons of cap room this off season?"

[just strum]

LeBron is putting on a show these days, no doubt about it. Right now he, Kobe and Dwyane Wade are all on fire.


He continues to dominate, 43 points; 12 rebounds, 8 assists, last night against the Magic. They are 4.5 games in front of Boston for home court advantage and percentage points ahead of LA for best record in the NBA.

Yet, there is a big concern - they are letting teams walk right into the painted area and score. To top it off, they are relying very heavily on the perimeter shot, including the 3 point shot. Fact, closer you are to the rim, the higher your shot making percentage goes up.

While they are still an overall great defensive team (they seem to turn it up a few notches in the 4th), they are not playing playoff basketball. Allowing the opponent to get into the painted area and relying on the perimeter shot usually spells early exit from the playoffs.

They know what they have to do, they have a coach that knows what it takes, now we will have to see if they send teams a message that they are the team to beat this year.

[R_of_G]

They will definitely need to tighten the defense up to make it through the playoffs. If they do make it out of the East, there are a few Western teams that will give them a run for their money. This would be a good year for LeBron to show he's got what it takes to win a championship. Maybe if he wins a championship for Cleveland you guys will have an easier time parting with him if he chooses to go elsewhere in 2010, like my Knicks. :D

[just strum]

Maybe if he wins a championship for Cleveland you guys will have an easier time parting with him if he chooses to go elsewhere in 2010, like my Knicks. :D

a valid arguement from Trash Talk

The answer is none of the above. LeBron James is staying in Cleveland. Wade, who can also opt out in 2010, will remain in Miami. Chris Bosh will stay in Toronto.


Until the collective bargaining agreement is changed so that a free agent’s current team no longer has the advantage of offering an extra year and more money on a long-term contract, marquee free agents will stay put.


Before Kobe Bryant signed his last deal with the Lakers, he made a lot of noise about going to the Clippers. The Clippers offered six years, $100 million. The Lakers were able to offer seven years, $137 million. You do the math.


But guys like LeBron are smart in one sense: They’re making their current owners nervous so they’ll do whatever is necessary to assemble championship-caliber teams to keep their superstars happy.


So in that regard, keep teasing, LeBron.


And a latest accomplishment:

With a layup early in the first quarter Wednesday night against New Jersey, Cleveland's superstar joined Hall of Famer Oscar Robertson as the only players in NBA history to post 2,000 points, 500 rebounds and 500 assists in a season at least four times.

[R_of_G]

I don't think it's a simple financial consideration. LeBron makes more money in endorsements than he ever would if he played for the Knicks and the Cavs simultaneously. It's about playing on the big stage. Yes, in this era it is possible to be a big media star in any city (as LeBron already proves), but there is only one New York City and to be THE BIG STAR there is like nothing else in sports. LeBron has said many times he is enamored with the history of MSG (and believe me, you can feel it just walking into that place). There's a reason it's known as "the world's most famous arena" and it's very enticing for the best basketball player of his generation to build his legend there.

I am hoping it happens though I know it's no guarantee, but I do think it's more than a monetary consideration. Other big time free agents leave their teams every year, so I don't put too much stock in thinking the rules for avoiding cap restraints for retaining free agents mean much.

I will tell you this... I will be shocked if James, Wade and Bosh all stay where they are, particularly the latter. Why on earth would Bosh languish in Toronto for any amount of money when the big time teams will come calling? Wade might stay in Miami out of loyalty. He's played his whole career in Miami and he's won a title there. He owns that town. All three will be courted (pun intended) by every team in the league, that's for sure.

[just strum]

I keep catching the score on the Internet, my Cavs are in Orlando getting their butts kicked (76-42 last time I looked). They had 14 straight wins and last night they lose to Washington and tonight Orlando. I think this will only be the second time this season that they have lost back to back games.

[just strum]

I will tell you this... I will be shocked if James, Wade and Bosh all stay where they are, particularly the latter. Why on earth would Bosh languish in Toronto for any amount of money when the big time teams will come calling? Wade might stay in Miami out of loyalty. He's played his whole career in Miami and he's won a title there. He owns that town. All three will be courted (pun intended) by every team in the league, that's for sure.

NBA is set up that their current team can offer them a longer contract and I believe more money. Kobe used that as his trump card and I think Wade and Lebron will do the same. Bosh may leave, but again, it all depends on the depth of the pockets in Toronto.

[R_of_G]

Like I said earlier, that suggests it's solely about money with LeBron and Wade. I think there's more to it than simply money. LeBron makes more in endorsements than he ever will as a player and that will be true wherever he plays.

[just strum]

I know Boston is short a couple of players (as have the Cavs been), but Cavs 31 and Boston 9 after one quarter - WOW!!!

Despite Boston being short a couple of players, they are still dangerous and the game has a long way to go.

[R_of_G]

The Celtics are a good team and will always be dangerous to play, but this year the Cavs are better and it showed today.

[just strum]

Well, it's only game one, but the Cavs looked good.






http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/200904181524554546367-pfwidec.jpg
LeBron James hoists and makes a half-court shot at the end of the first half.


Boston who???

[just strum]

A well deserved award. Mike Brown won the Coach of the Year Award. Mike has built a team around defense and trust. This is not an award that Lebron won for him, it is recognition of Mike's determination to build a "TEAM" in the true sense of the word.

I've told our top management that Mike's approach is a good model of business management and should be looked at as more than just a sport. Anyone that has followed the Cavs will know what I am talking about.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/30310985/

[R_of_G]

Good for Coach Brown. I agree, he deserves it for what he's done this season.

[just strum]

The sweep!!!

Hats off to the Pistons - they may not be much this year, but they have been the best team over the past 10 years. The amazing thing is, they did it without a superstar, because they always played as a team. Iverson was a BIG mistake - one of the most selfish, overrated players in the in the NBA!!!

So, the Cavs sweep the series in 4, await either Maimi or Atlanta in 7 to 10 days.

The Celtics are 2 and 2 and whining they don't have Garrnett. They do have Pierce, Allen, Davis, and Rondo - yet they can't get it done. Who in their right mind would be a Boston fan???:poke:

Then over in the West you have the Lakers - I am hoping that the Rockets or Dallas knock them off.

[wingsdad]

The sweep!!!...
:bravo: Congratulations. Now that The King has some support, he looks like more of a team player.

The Celtics are 2 and 2 and whining they don't have Garrnett. They do have Pierce, Allen, Davis, and Rondo - yet they can't get it done. Who in their right mind would be a Boston fan???:poke:
So, my mind's not right.:messedup: (I suffered as a Red Sox fan until '04.) They let it get away today, for sure. One of the keys to compensating for no KG, Perkins, left too soon on fouls, and that was an equalizer from that point on. The Bulls are tough.

Then over in the West you have the Lakers - I am hoping that the Rockets or Dallas knock them off.
No chance. None. Zip. Nada.

[marnold]

Hats off to the Pistons - they may not be much this year, but they have been the best team over the past 10 years. The amazing thing is, they did it without a superstar, because they always played as a team. Iverson was a BIG mistake - one of the most selfish, overrated players in the in the NBA!!!

Don't be fooled. The Iverson trade had nothing to do with giving the Pistons a superstar. Joe D. realized the writing was on the wall for this Pistons team. The Iverson-Billups trade was all about the future. With AI and Sheed coming off the books, they'll have tons of cap space and can accelerate their rebuilding. In the meantime, I'll be rooting for Chauncy and the Nuggets.

[R_of_G]

Then over in the West you have the Lakers - I am hoping that the Rockets or Dallas knock them off.

I don't like to say never, but it'll never happen. If anything, the West is more one-sided than the East. A healthy Boston could have given Cleveland a series (even if they'd have lost). Nobody in the West, healthy or not, is going to give the Lakers much of a challenge. Certainly not Houston or Dallas. Neither team plays defense on a level to challenge the Lakers. Of the three Texas teams, San Antonio is the most-equipped to take on the Lakers, but they are now without Ginobli, and even with him, they weren't going to beat the Lakers.

Truth be told, it's kind of a boring NBA post-season for me. It seems like it's all a big waste of time until the Cavs/Lakers final. Wake me up when we get there.

[just strum]

Being from Cleveland, I've lived through the drive, the fumble, the poor closer, just about everything, so I get a little apprehensive about the Cavs - but I think they are for real. I hope they don't trip before the championship series.

[just strum]

Pretty nice company to be with.

"James has rarely been so locked in. He scored 36 points with 13 rebounds and eight assists in the Game 4 finale and finished the series averaging 32 points, 11.3 rebounds and 7.5 assists on 51 percent shooting. He joined Larry Bird and Oscar Robertson as the only players to average 30-10-7 in a playoff series." - Associated Press Sports

[just strum]

Gotta hand it to those Bulls :poke:

[wingsdad]

Yep, that's just what our Mr. Pierce did. :mad: Losing the ball on a misguided pass to Noah was bad enough but then chasing him down and fouling him when he had no chance of stopping him was one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen.

A shame to waste Ray-Ray's game.

We don't lose a game 7 at the Garden, though.:poke:

[just strum]

Yep, that's just what our Mr. Pierce did. :mad: Losing the ball on a misguided pass to Noah was bad enough but then chasing him down and fouling him when he had no chance of stopping him was one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen.

A shame to waste Ray-Ray's game.

We don't lose a game 7 at the Garden, though.:poke:

Ray Allen was unbelievable. That was one of those "in the zone" games.

This might go down as one of the best series ever. It certainly has to be the best first round series ever.

Despite the gallant effort on the part of the Bulls, I think there is too much Celtic pride for Boston to lose game 7. However, if you would have told me there would be at least seven OT's in this series...

[wingsdad]

...
This might go down as one of the best series ever. It certainly has to be the best first round series ever....
True, true. Certainly has been good for the economy, at least for sports bars...:whatever:
Despite the gallant effort on the part of the Bulls, I think there is too much Celtic pride for Boston to lose game 7. However, if you would have told me there would be at least seven OT's in this series...
If we had our pick & roll stopper, it would've been over in 4. The Celts didn't exactly blowout the 1st round last year, either. We take game 7, and play team ball through the next round...KG might be ready to deal with King James:poke: That will be a series.

[just strum]

Two teams in the East have to put a scare into the other teams - Atlanta and Chicago. Both have youth and difficult match-ups. Over the past two years, Boston has seen more than they would have liked to of these two teams.

Whoever comes out of this on top, is going to be mentally and physically drained.

[mrmudcat]

Celtics in 7........................:AOK: .nuff said

[just strum]

Well. I'm not going to start dancing yet, I am getting happy feet. Lakers and Celtics both lose?, what's up with that?

I won't go bragging just yet, because Atlanta poses some match-up problems the same as the Lakers and Celtics are experiencing.

Oh, I will say LEBRON MVP. He had the award ceremony held at his high school - I thought that was classy.

[just strum]

R of G will appreciate this:

The top five defensive teams (fewest allowed points)
Cavs, Spurs, Celtics, Trail Blazers, and Hornets. All five made the playoffs. Regular season combined record of 285 - 185 (.695)

Top scoring teams Suns, Warriors, Lakers, Knicks, and Pacers. Combined record was 208 - 202 (.507). The 65 - 17 Lakers were the only team to make the playoffs and the reason the top scoring teams are over .500

Another strong statement for defense.

[R_of_G]

I do appreciate it Strum. :)

As a Knicks fan, it's very telling. Back in the 90's when the Knicks were a strong playoff team it was because they played a dominating defensive game. It's one of the reasons I'm not too fond of D'Antoni as the coach. His style leans much more towards trying to win by putting up as many points as possible. Even if it were successful in the regular season, that's not a sound strategy for the playoffs.

On the subject of defense, the 2008/2009 NBA All-Defensive Team was announced today...

First team:

C - Dwight Howard (Orl)
F - LeBron James (Cle)
F - Kevin Garnett (Bos)
G - Kobe Bryant (LAL)
G - Chris Paul (NO)

Second team:

C - Tim Duncan (SA)
F - Shane Battier (Hou)
F - Ron Artest (Hou)
G - Rajon Rondo (Bos)
G - Dwyane Wade (Mia)

[just strum]

Last night I fell asleep with less than 30 seconds to play in the LA/Denver game.

Tonight I turned off the TV is anger with one second to play.

And it gets worse - I've lost track of how Boston is doing in their series :poke:

[just strum]

Ohhh, the pain.

Cavs wanted sign: Wanted, big man to clog up the lane and have quick feet.

[piebaldpython]

Ohhh, the pain.
Cavs wanted sign: Wanted, big man to clog up the lane and have quick feet.

Yeah, they need that BIG guy.........but........uh.......do you think they'll be able to re-sign LeBron???? Isn't he a free agent now? I think they said something about that during the game.

TV execs must be fuming that the Cavs lost as they just lost half of their marquee' match-up with Kobe.

On a side note.....way back in the day (1982-1984) I used to work with Kobe's grandmom (maternal). A tall, supremely graceful, elegant lady who could make a housedress look fashionable. My guess is that he got "silky smooth" from his grandmom. :D

[R_of_G]

Cavs wanted sign: Wanted, big man to clog up the lane and have quick feet.
They should be looking for a big that can shoot the ball. That seemed to be their biggest match-up problem with Orlando. Varejao and Wallace can play defense under the glass (most of the time) but matched up against Turkoglu and Lewis who are both 6'10" and can both shoot the lights out from the outside, they had no chance.

Ilgauskas is also a liability. I can't figure out what it is that he's supposed to be good at. Guarding Dwight Howard sure wasn't it. Now, I know Howard is a beast and everybody has a tough time guarding him, but me made Zydrunas look like a little kid trying to stop a city bus.

The other thing the Cavs need to win a championship is players not named LeBron James to step up and dominate the game. Did you notice that in Orlando's four wins a different player was their high scorer and focus each time? The Cavs give LeBron a little support here and there, but when the Cavs win, it's always because LeBron dominated. If a team can keep him in check, they can beat the Cavs.

I actually felt really bad for LeBron last night. He played his butt off throughout the series but he can't do it by himself for a seven game series. Even 24 year old superhumans like LeBron get tired after awhile. Some in the sports media may criticize him for not getting his team to the finals. I don't know what more he could have done. I blame a lot of it on Mike Brown. He couldn't make the adjustments Van Gundy was making and he never could figure out how to give LeBron a few minutes off here and there. For a "Coach of the Year," he seemed a little short in the strategic planning department.

Orlando/LA should be a very interesting match-up. I think they're the two deepest benches in the NBA. Kobe will dominate a game or two but watch for Ariza and Odom to have their big games as well. I am also very curious as to how Gasol and Bynum will handle Dwight Howard. Gasol is not exactly a tough guy on defense. Howard may eat him for lunch. At the moment, I'm picking Lakers in 6, but I'm rooting for the Magic as I live 70 miles from Orlando.

[just strum]

Yeah, they need that BIG guy.........but........uh.......do you think they'll be able to re-sign LeBron???? Isn't he a free agent now? I think they said something about that during the game.



His contract is up in 2010. The Cavs can offer more than any other team, but cannot offer the big market that would increase his endorsement money. Seeing that endorsements aren't really an issue, I don't see that the reason for leaving.

Lebron wants a ring, he wants to win. If the Cavs add more talent, he stays. He has noted that he might sign early and put the interruption behind. It's tough to call. I think there is a part of Lebron that likes the idea of being the hometown guy that brings a championship to his town. He is a very unique individual.

I found out the other day that one of the guys that works in our engineering department was on the high school basketball team with him. Plus we have a guy that is Lebrons second cousin working in shipping.

Take nothing away from Orlando, they played a hell of a series and are a very difficult match-up. I do think the Cavs were out coached and it was real evident in the third quarter. I call the third quarter "the coaches quarter" because it's all about halftime adjustments and the Cavs didn't make them.

[R_of_G]

Lebron wants a ring, he wants to win. If the Cavs add more talent, he stays. He has noted that he might sign early and put the interruption behind. It's tough to call.

It's part of why I felt for LeBron last night. You could see it in his face that he knew that the season was over and the questions were going to be coming again. Last night I realized that question is seeming to really weigh on LeBron. Having an MVP season and cruising through the first two rounds only to get out-played by a deeper team and missing the Finals has to make LeBron wonder how close the Cavs really are to being a championship team. Taking nothing away from their season, they distinction I am making is that they are a dominant team in the East, not the dominant team in the East. Orlando showed how deep they are (minus Jameer Nelson even) and the Celtics played tough for a team without Garnett. None of the three can just runaway with the East the way the Lakers clearly dominate the West. The championship teams are not the "best" teams, rather they are the team that plays the best basketball in the playoffs.



I do think the Cavs were out coached and it was real evident in the third quarter. I call the third quarter "the coaches quarter" because it's all about halftime adjustments and the Cavs didn't make them.

Agreed. The third quarter is the time to make your move. By then you should know what the other team can do that night. If you're behind by 21 at the half like the Cavs were, the time to put it in overdrive is the third, not the fourth when you're still down by double digits and have to start fouling to stop the clock.

[just strum]

R_of_G, if you had watched almost every Cavs game this season, you would scratch your head about the third quarter. This season they were very dominant in the third, it was like a trademark for them. This performance in the Orlando series was more reminiscent of the previous season when they tended to play the first half and then try to coast (a perfect example in game 1).

I can remember games this season when they were down by a few and then came out in the third to put the game away. They were so dominant that Lebron sat for many 4th quarters, which makes his scoring performance this year even that much more amazing.

Lebron left the game and the arena without saying a word. He never went over to congratulate the other team which is very uncharacteristic of Lebron.

His history has been to come back even better than he was the previous season. He works on his weaknesses through the off-season and improves his overall game. If that holds true again, that is the silver lining in all of this. Although I'm sure he is not thinking about that right now.

He lives about 10 - 15 miles from me, maybe I will go talk to him and while I'm there I'll play some one on one and take him to the hole.

[marnold]

Take nothing away from Orlando, they played a hell of a series and are a very difficult match-up. I do think the Cavs were out coached and it was real evident in the third quarter. I call the third quarter "the coaches quarter" because it's all about halftime adjustments and the Cavs didn't make them.
And if your team gets out-coached by Stan Van Gundy . . . ummm . . . ouch.

Having said that, I think Van Gundy has learned quite a bit this playoff series. He finally realized that letting Dwight Howard be Dwight Howard might be the best recipe for success.

I feel bad for the Cavs, even as a Pistons fan. As a Red Wings fan, I remember the early 90s where it seemed like we'd have great teams but then be heartbroken in the playoffs. That's why I'm quick to forgive a little sleep-walking during the regular season, since the real season doesn't start until the playoffs.

[R_of_G]

His history has been to come back even better than he was the previous season. He works on his weaknesses through the off-season and improves his overall game. If that holds true again, that is the silver lining in all of this. Although I'm sure he is not thinking about that right now.

That's true and I'm sure he will be back better than ever next season. The question is, will it be enough to win a championship?

The one weakness he can't woodshed in the off-season is not having a deep bench of teammates who can score. I suppose he can tell the GM "get my teammates, or watch me play somewhere else next season" but he doesn't seem the type (like Kobe was).

Ilgauskas' option for next season is $11 million. That would be money better spent on another forward who can shoot the ball so LeBron doesn't have to take every shot.

[sunvalleylaw]

I am sorry the Cavs are not still in it. It would be fun to see Lebron supported properly with some stronger team members.

For me, today marks an anniversary of a very good memory, and one that points out what my area lost: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2009284407_sonic01.html

and

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/stevekelley/2009281429_kelley31.html

It may seem that all I contribute to this thread I started is reminiscences of a gone by team, but read the articles (they are both short) and esp. the second where the columnist describes the style of play and the type of players Lenny Wilkens used in that victory. It was before the big superstar. Magic, Bird, Jordan had not arrived yet. Seattle was still a somewhat working class town, and microsoft had not "made it" yet, if it even yet existed.

I still love watching a good basketball game, and I hope we get more play that is more team oriented, where each player has a role that he plays well, and even if there is a star, it is not ALL about that star.

[R_of_G]

It would be fun to see Lebron supported properly with some stronger team members.
It's why nobody should count out the Nets from the LeBron sweepstakes next summer. The Cavs can offer him more money. The Knicks can offer him MSG as a home venue. The Nets can offer him a foundation for a good team that he can join instead of guys brought in to supposedly support him. Plus he'd get to play in Brooklyn, my ancestral homeland. :D

[just strum]

It's why nobody should count out the Nets from the LeBron sweepstakes next summer. The Cavs can offer him more money. The Knicks can offer him MSG as a home venue. The Nets can offer him a foundation for a good team that he can join instead of guys brought in to supposedly support him. Plus he'd get to play in Brooklyn, my ancestral homeland. :D

Oh you silly silly man.

[R_of_G]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/stevekelley/2009281429_kelley31.html

It may seem that all I contribute to this thread I started is reminiscences of a gone by team, but read the articles (they are both short) and esp. the second where the columnist describes the style of play and the type of players Lenny Wilkens used in that victory. It was before the big superstar. Magic, Bird, Jordan had not arrived yet. Seattle was still a somewhat working class town, and microsoft had not "made it" yet, if it even yet existed.

I still love watching a good basketball game, and I hope we get more play that is more team oriented, where each player has a role that he plays well, and even if there is a star, it is not ALL about that star.

Definitely a different era now, though if you look at the teams that win championships, it's rarely (if ever) a single superstar that single-handedly delivers their team to a title. That's basically my point about the Cavs. They shouldn't expect LeBron to do it all. Even in the 80's/90's era referenced by the writer of that article, teams still had to be teams to win. Magic had Kareem and Worthy and several other key teammates. Bird had McHale and Robert Parish and Danny Ainge and Dennis Johnson. The Detroit teams that dominated the 1988-90 seasons were deep teams. Even the man most able to dominate a game all by himself, Michael Jordan still had a strong supporting cast (Pippen, Horace Grant, et al) to provide assistance in his title runs. I can also think of a few teams who have/had superstar players who never won a championship at all (the Stockton/Malone Utah Jazz come to mind immediately.)

Deep teams with good coaching win championships.

What I wonder is how much the game really is dominated by superstars today or how much it just feels that way because of the massive increase in media attention in our 24 hour/day news world. It's easier for the media to sell sports to the casual observer when they can just portray the game as being dominated by big name players, but is that really the game that's being played?

I do think in the era of massive salaries for athletes we are probably beyond ever seeing a team I would describe as "workmanlike" but I do think it's possible for a team without a mega-superstar to compete like the Sonics did in the 70's.

[piebaldpython]

I do think in the era of massive salaries for athletes we are probably beyond ever seeing a team I would describe as "workmanlike" but I do think it's possible for a team without a mega-superstar to compete like the Sonics did in the 70's.

Interesting point......just me musing here....about "workmanlike".....hmmmm....I think any time that wins a title has a decent amount of "workmanlike" or "utility type" players on it. Take the aforementioned Bulls. For as much of a social misfit narcissist that Dennis Rodman was; he did TWO thing amazingly well. He rebounded like a madman and played fabulous D. He didn't score much but that wasn't his JOB and he knew it.

Second point.......no matter how "workmanlike" a team is...given the nature of the game where just about everybody can touch the ball, you still have to have a "gunslinger". A guy who WANTS the ball in CRUNCH time and a guy who the other team HAS to respect.

[just strum]

The Bad Boys were one of the last "no star" teams. I guess I am being hard on Isiah since I never considered him a star. The players knew their roles, played within those roles and were a "team".

[sunvalleylaw]

Definitely a different era now, though if you look at the teams that win championships, it's rarely (if ever) a single superstar that single-handedly delivers their team to a title. That's basically my point about the Cavs. They shouldn't expect LeBron to do it all. Even in the 80's/90's era referenced by the writer of that article, teams still had to be teams to win. Magic had Kareem and Worthy and several other key teammates. Bird had McHale and Robert Parish and Danny Ainge and Dennis Johnson. The Detroit teams that dominated the 1988-90 seasons were deep teams. Even the man most able to dominate a game all by himself, Michael Jordan still had a strong supporting cast (Pippen, Horace Grant, et al) to provide assistance in his title runs. I can also think of a few teams who have/had superstar players who never won a championship at all (the Stockton/Malone Utah Jazz come to mind immediately.)

Deep teams with good coaching win championships.

What I wonder is how much the game really is dominated by superstars today or how much it just feels that way because of the massive increase in media attention in our 24 hour/day news world. It's easier for the media to sell sports to the casual observer when they can just portray the game as being dominated by big name players, but is that really the game that's being played?

I do think in the era of massive salaries for athletes we are probably beyond ever seeing a team I would describe as "workmanlike" but I do think it's possible for a team without a mega-superstar to compete like the Sonics did in the 70's.


. . . Take the aforementioned Bulls. For as much of a social misfit narcissist that Dennis Rodman was; he did TWO thing amazingly well. He rebounded like a madman and played fabulous D. He didn't score much but that wasn't his JOB and he knew it.

Second point.......no matter how "workmanlike" a team is...given the nature of the game where just about everybody can touch the ball, you still have to have a "gunslinger". A guy who WANTS the ball in CRUNCH time and a guy who the other team HAS to respect.

Good points you two. I loved watching Parish and Ainge. Good point about the "Gunslinger' go to guy. But I think that the '79 Supersonic team did not have a real gunslinger per se. I guess the closest would be DJ. I think he hit some critical outside shots and engineered some key offensive plays. But Gus William's fast break play may have been quite important too. In fact, R_of_G just pointed out DJ was a supporting player on the Celtics after Seattle.

I agree about Rodman. I did not like his attitude he displayed, but I respected his play. OTOH, certain players that were somewhat workerlike (Stockton) in appearance and defensive play, could be prima donna in their attitudes on the court. I think that as the rules were relaxed and bent for big stars so their play would not be interrupted (Shaq/Jordan rule on travelling) and big stars expected big calls (Stockton/Malone again, always thinking the call should go their way and whining when it didn't) What appears to me to be a "star effect" on rules enforcement bugs me. But that may have started back with Kareem or before.

Good point about the media too. Back in '79, the NBA was not nearly as well covered as it is now. That point is made in one of the articles I linked. I suppose the stardom factor/media coverage go hand in hand. Kind of like the Kennedys (not to talk politics, just media). The Camelot aspect of the Kennedys is discussed almost more than the policy decisions made.

[R_of_G]

I think that as the rules were relaxed and bent for big stars so their play would not be interrupted (Shaq/Jordan rule on travelling) and big stars expected big calls (Stockton/Malone again, always thinking the call should go their way and whining when it didn't) What appears to me to be a "star effect" on rules enforcement bugs me. But that may have started back with Kareem or before.

The change is palpable for sure. The game is much different in that respect. It's been long enough now that I don't really mind the lack of traveling calls any more, though I still laugh when I see guys take 4 or 5 steps (like every move Barkley ever made). It's the stupid foul calls for playing solid defense that I can't tolerate. If you look cross-eyed at Kobe, they call a foul.

I know Marnold and I have discussed this in the hockey threads... in a general sense it seems like the people who run our professional sports leagues equate high scoring with fan interest so they've modified the rules as much as possible to promote more scoring.

It is brutally evident in the NFL where it is becoming more and more difficult to play defense at all without drawing flags. People made a big deal of the season Randy Moss had a couple of years ago. Not to take anything away from the guy because he is immensely talented, but he would not have been able to put up those numbers in the 80's when guys could play defense against him without penalties.

The NHL has changed so much I hardly recognize the game being played as hockey any more. The NBA is much the same.

High scoring may bring in the casual fan who doesn't understand the sport but knows to cheer when someone scores. For those of us who like the game played its hardest on both offense and defense, the rule changes can be a nuisance.

[just strum]

For those of us who like the game played its hardest on both offense and defense, the rule changes can be a nuisance.

If you were running for Commissioner, you know you have my vote.

[R_of_G]

I'd start by fining teams that consistently give up more than 100 points per game. :whatever:

[just strum]

I'd start by fining teams that consistently give up more than 100 points per game. :whatever:

And to think you are referring to football (read Browns):D

As for basketball, the Cavs played 96 games this season and gave up 100 points or more 20 times; 10 of those 20 were for lose (unfortunately 3 of those losses were to Orlando in the playoffs). Their final record was 96 - 20.

[R_of_G]

As for basketball, the Cavs played 96 games this season and gave up 100 points or more 20 times; 10 of those 20 were for lose (unfortunately 3 of those losses were to Orlando in the playoffs). Their final record was 96 - 20.

That says it all doesn't it?

It reminds me of the mid-90's Pat Riley Knicks. If the Knicks scored 90, the game was pretty much over because they weren't giving up that many.

You'd think the chants of "De-fense! De-fense!" would clue the league into the fact that it's what people want. We ask for it by name. When's the last time you heard 20,000 strong chanting "O-fense! O-fense!"?:whatever:

[just strum]

You'd think the chants of "De-fense! De-fense!" would clue the league into the fact that it's what people want. We ask for it by name.

I never thought of that - good point.

[R_of_G]

I never thought of that - good point.
It occurred to me while I was writing that post. :D

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, I am officially in as rooting for the Lakers in the finals. I watched a good chunk of tonight's game, and I liked the Laker's style better. Granted, I have not watched any ball during the season, but I did not like the razzle/dazzle stuff Orlando was doing, and preferred the more straight up and to the point play both on defense and on offense displayed by the Lakers. At least that is my opinion tonight. ;)

[R_of_G]

I'm indifferent about the Lakers. I don't love them, I don't hate them, but I am very happy for Phil Jackson. Him I have always liked. Ten championships as a coach is quite an accomplishment. :bravo:

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, I liked this final game. The Magic kept in it, and did not give up. They were just less experienced it seemed, and got taken out of their game. Also, LA was just too deep. If they were double teaming Kobe, Odom started dumping in 3's, and Gasol was amazing. At least it was a good game.

And from what I know about it, Jackson's coaching was amazing. Good, smart ball. :AOK:

[R_of_G]

No doubt about it, the Lakers have the deepest bench in the NBA. When you can have a guy like Odom coming off the bench, you know you're good. I'm happy for him. I've always liked Odom.

Also, as much as Kobe isn't my favorite human being, I am happy for him. The media was talking a lot about how he needed to win to show he could win without Shaq. Firstly, Shaq did not win those titles alone. Kobe had a lot to do with it. Secondly, Shaq's title in Miami was 90% Dwyane Wade's doing. Now Kobe has a fourth. Love him or hate him, he's the best all around player in the game.

[sunvalleylaw]

I kinda forgot what the hubbub was about Kobe's personal life. I was thinking it was not so great. I am not a huge fan, and don't spend much time thinking about it. Also, that Laker depth was frustrating as a Supersonics fan growing up. I was not a huge Magic fan, nor a Kobe/Shaq fan. But when I watched Kobe this series, he seemed to be professional and have a decent demeanor on the court. He seemed to deliver positive leadership to his team, and I like that.

[R_of_G]

i agree steve. i have nothing but respect for kobe the ball player.

[sunvalleylaw]

Strum, thought you might have interest in this, though I did not get a chance to see Lebron:

http://www.luxist.com/2009/07/07/lebron-james-part-of-sun-valley-billionaire-confab/187

[just strum]

I read a short blurp about it in the local paper. Pretty impressive for a kid that came right out of high school and into the NBA.

Speaking of Lebron, I don't know if I mentioned it before, but I work with Willie McGee who has known Lebron since they were 8 years old and played high school basketball and football with him. Wil is leaving our company and taking on a basketball assistant coaching position at Akron University.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/610x.jpg

Former Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary's player and current Cleveland Cavaliers player LeBron James, center, talks with former teammates Brandon Weems, left, and Willie McGee before the start of a Division II boys Ohio state basketball championship game

Another at the movie premier of "More Than a Game"

Wil on the left

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/redcarpet1.jpg

We also have a guy who is Lebrons second cousin or something like that. I think the guys mother is a cousin of Lebrons mother.

Unfortunately Lebron has never paid a visit to the company I work for.

[R_of_G]

i am a bit disappointed in lebron today.

some of you have possibly heard this story. some of you may not care. i think it's somewhat illustrative of something wrong with the marketing of sports superstars in our current era.

in short, the story is that lebron was dunked on by a college player at lebron's summer basketball developmental camp. that alone would be interesting enough and fun to see video of. and there my friends, is where the real story lies.

apparently, we will not be seeing video of this dunk because the recordings, made by at least 2 cameras that were rolling, were confiscated by officials from nike.

that's bad enough as it is, as it suggests that nike owns lebron's image. what's worse, it appears from several sources, that the confiscation was instigated by lebron himself. that is beyond ridiculous.

lebron is a great basketball player.

he is among the top 2 or 3 players in the game today. i hesitate to put him ahead of kobe or wade because they have done what he has not, won championships.

this kind of protection of one's image is unacceptable. you got dunked on. be a man and deal with it.

refusing to allow the footage out doesn't mean it didn't happen. and that it did happen doesn't mean lebron isn't great.

it's really the dumbest thing ever and shows lebron cares far too much about his image.

anyway, here's the story itself...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/LeBron-gets-dunked-on-by-Xavier-player-confisca?urn=ncaab,175293

[just strum]

I saw that too, and I don't think it is complete fact (just my opinion). Based on Lebrons character, it doesn't fit. I don't even see Nike doing it, but that is possible. However for them to do it at the direction of Lebron, well then who owns who?

Anyway, I think it's just a case of knock the guy off the top of the mountain.

I could be wrong, but I'm not buying it.

[R_of_G]

i'm not sure what's not to buy about it. too many people are all telling the exact same story for at least the crux of it to not be true. perhaps there is some confusion about who is behind the confiscation of the tapes, but there are two elements of the story i don't for a second doubt are true (a) lebron got dunked on by crawford and (b) someone does not want us to see the footage. perhaps we may never know who that someone is, but i suspect now that the story is public, if it weren't lebron, he'd come forward and say "just show the tape, i'm a big boy, i can handle it"

[just strum]

i'm not sure what's not to buy about it. too many people are all telling the exact same story for at least the crux of it to not be true. perhaps there is some confusion about who is behind the confiscation of the tapes, but there are two elements of the story i don't for a second doubt are true (a) lebron got dunked on by crawford and (b) someone does not want us to see the footage. perhaps we may never know who that someone is, but i suspect now that the story is public, if it weren't lebron, he'd come forward and say "just show the tape, i'm a big boy, i can handle it"

Can't you tell I'm in denial???

It will all become clear in a couple of days. With Lebrons sense of humor, I just can't see him doing this.

Now stop it, don't you have a "playing now" to post???

[R_of_G]

Can't you tell I'm in denial???

It will all become clear in a couple of days. With Lebrons sense of humor, I just can't see him doing this.

Now stop it, don't you have a "playing now" to post???

:D

in fact, i do have a now playing to post and i am on my way to do just that.