Neck finish damaged during setup/fret polishing [Archive] - Guitar Discussion Forum

Pickngrin

January 1st, 2009, 09:21 PM

I just got my MIJ 50s reissue strat back from the tech after a setup. When I went into his shop, he apprehensively said that he had to show me something that was a bit of a problem. In these photos, you can see how there were a few bubbles in the finish at the 1st, 2nd, and most obviously 3rd fret. I had already had a small bit of this at the body end of my neck. He said that when he took the tape off the neck after polishing the frets, some of the neck finish came with it. He felt very badly about this and had refinished my fretboard to compensate for this (and didn't charge me for the refinishing).
He jokingly said that he reliced it for me.
http://home.comcast.net/~ebayj/PC020003.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~ebayj/PC020004.JPG

This was the pre-existing wear near the 21st fret:
http://home.comcast.net/~ebayj/PC020008.JPG

What do you guys think of this?

hubberjub

January 1st, 2009, 09:29 PM

My 1991 American Standard Strat did the same thing. The glossy finish doesn't hold up well. I wouldn't worry about it. It's nice that he is willing to refinish the neck. I would ask him to strip the finish off the whole neck. I prefer the bare wood to the sometimes sticky feeling poly that is on there.

just strum

January 1st, 2009, 09:33 PM

are these pics before or after the refinish?

Pickngrin

January 1st, 2009, 09:34 PM

These are the after pics...I didn't see it until it was already done. I was pretty forgiving about it while I was there, but I was curious to hear what others think. This is the first time I went to his shop. He set up my Taylor acoustic nicely and of course "did' my Strat.

Spudman

January 1st, 2009, 09:47 PM

Ouch! Looks like the tech used high tack tape to cover the finger board. Your finish might have stayed put if not for him. I'd have him make it right even though he might not know how. Sorry about your guitar getting messed up but if it was me I'd be blowing a gasket.

just strum

January 1st, 2009, 09:56 PM

You note he refinished your fretboard and didn't charge you and these pics are the end result of the refinish?

Pickngrin

January 1st, 2009, 09:58 PM

You note he refinished your fretboard and didn't charge you and these pics are the end result of the refinish?

That's right. Should I be bringing this guitar back to him??

just strum

January 1st, 2009, 10:02 PM

That's right. Should I be bringing this guitar back to him??

Yes. If he felt bad about damaging (as he should), then he needs to repair it correctly.

mrmudcat

January 2nd, 2009, 04:37 AM

I use that blue painters tape and find it works great.:thwap:

WackyT

January 2nd, 2009, 06:47 AM

I use that blue painters tape and find it works great.:thwap:

Looks like he might've used duct tape. Not good.

Pickngrin

January 2nd, 2009, 07:09 AM

He claimed that he used a low-tack tape. So what would you recommend that I ask him to do with the guitar now? Remove the finish and refinish it again?

ted s

January 2nd, 2009, 07:28 AM

I am surprised those pics are of his attempt to make it right, doesn't look right at all. I agree with a re-finish top to bottom.

WackyT

January 2nd, 2009, 08:08 AM

He claimed that he used a low-tack tape. So what would you recommend that I ask him to do with the guitar now? Remove the finish and refinish it again?

Yup. That's what I'd have him do.

ZMAN

January 2nd, 2009, 08:17 AM

I personally would be a little apprehensive about him touching my guitar again. If that is what it looks like after he touched it up.
Who knows what it would look like after. It really depends on what type of Strat it is and how this will affect the value, of the guitar. Do you plan on keeping it? I can't tell from pictures what the over all condition of the guitar but it looks like you have a nice tint and aged covers.
Also have you seen any of this guys refinishing work.
A lot of things to consider.

M29

January 2nd, 2009, 10:24 AM

Pickngrin,

Is this the factory finish? Are you sure? This may have been redone somewhere in it's history. This would mean the rest of the neck would not have good adhesion and may pull off with future fret work. I would be on the safe side and strip the whole neck and redo it, it would be a pretty big job.
It could be fixed between the frets as a simple fix but it may do the same thing later on between other frets that were not fixed. It is odd that it did this if it was a factory job.
Sorry to see this happen. If this was redone he would have had no idea it would do that until he took the tape off. He should fix it though but I would be hesitant to have him do it. If he does have him go right down to the bare wood on the (whole neck).
It appears the tint is all in the clear as the bare wood is still white. This leads me to think it had been changed somewhere in it's history. It looks like someone put a tinted amber on it trying to make it look aged and what ever they used did not adhere to the wood well. They may have not cleaned the wood or got all the sanding dust off before clearing it.

How old is this guitar?

In patching the effected areas, the tint would have to be matched or you will get light spots where the fixes were. These areas would no longer be aged or tinted like the rest of the neck.

M

Algonquin

January 2nd, 2009, 10:42 AM

I really think your best bet is to go back and talk with the shop that did the work. You should have the best idea if the shop is reputable and capable of doing proper repairs. If you believe the shop is trustworthy and on the up an up, it very well may be that the finish was ready to come off.

If the shop acted accordingly and used low tack tape as they stated, it would be difficult to ask for a $250 neck refinishing repair job.

Auto mechanics (and there are trustworthy ones out there) encounter this type of thing when incidental damage occurs.

I hope you get this resolved with the shop and develope a long lasting, trusting relationship.

Good luck...

Andy

January 2nd, 2009, 12:09 PM

not impressed with the refinish job but,should tape be able to pull the finish off like that to begin with?
the guy may be a good set up tech but he should have called as soon as it happened.mabey the finish wasn't fully cured?

I'm assuming the frets will have to be pulled to do a proper job on it.

Pickngrin

January 2nd, 2009, 05:20 PM

Thanks for all of the input...
So I went in to his shop today and explained that I realized how unhappy I was with the guitar after getting it home. He said that he would take care of the situation so that I was satisfied, although he said that by no means was he remiss at all; he stands firmly by his statement that this would have happened otherwise. He mentioned how there was already a bit of wear in the finish at the end of the fretboard (you can sort of see it in the picture), but I said that had been stable for a long time.

He asked me what I wanted him to do. He suggested that he could sand and refinish the fingerboard (not the back of the neck or the headstock), buy the guitar from me, or cover half the cost of replacing the neck (not an appealing option to me). He made it clear that he would be eating a ~$300 hit on refinishing the neck. He said that since he would only be sanding/refinishing the fretboard, that the neck would no longer match the headstock -- this concerned me. I couldn't decide what to do, so I left the guitar there and told him I'll sleep on it and call him back.

Since this afternoon, he left me voice mail telling me that he found out about a vintage toner that can potentially make the fretboard a close match to the headstock. He is suggesting sanding down the fingerboard, applying a vintage toner, and revarnishing the fingerboard. This sounds like a reasonable option to me (I've got pretty much no experience having neck work done), but at the same time, I don't want to take advantage of this guy if he is truly not at fault here... I'm not sure what to do.

Spudman

January 2nd, 2009, 05:38 PM

Pickngrin

January 2nd, 2009, 06:26 PM

If you check out the new Fender Road Worn series guitars you'll see necks that look just like yours but even more area is finish stressed very similar to yours. Maybe you might want to think of it as getting a FREE new Road Worn Fender Strat?

Check out the neck on the 50s Strat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6w2ArB_zzM

http://www.proguitarshop.com/index.php?CategoryID=653

When I picked up the guitar last Friday, he had initially joked that he reliced the guitar for me. Does this have a negative effect on the value of the guitar? i bought it new in 1988 and don't have any intention to sell it anytime soon.

Spudman

January 2nd, 2009, 09:23 PM

I think if it feels alright and you can live with the look than don't get too hung up on it. Get the guy to do you some favors for screwing up your guitar but secretly know that he just made your guitar cool looking.;)

oldguy

January 3rd, 2009, 06:14 AM

If he was doing a routine set up and used low tack tape to protect the fretboard while he polished the frets, IMO he's not to blame. Especially when the finish was already coming off the neck further down towards the body.
Notice I started that first sentence with the word "IF".
I've seen some Fender maple necks that do lose their finish prematurely, and while it's not nice and shiny, it does look nicely aged once you get enough hours playing time on it.
If it were mine.............I'd just play it, the more the better.
If you bought it for a long term investment........ clean and polish it, loosen the stings and pack it away.

Kazz

January 3rd, 2009, 06:32 AM

This is a tough one....part of me wants to disagree with Old Guy....but there is a strong sense that if this was really incidental damage that it was not this guys fault at all.

But then again if he was really good...in the vein of Dan Erlewine he would have recognized that there were existing finish issues that may be aggravated by any tack of tape.

I also think he was in error of making any attempt at a correction without consulting you first.

Now my personal opinion is that if you are going to let him refinish any part of your neck, then he should do the entire neck including headstock so that it matches completely.

F_BSurfer

January 3rd, 2009, 07:07 AM

Although I don't have experience with refinishing guitar necks I have plenty of experience refinishing wood it is what I do for a living.

Unfortunately this happens even with the use of low tack tape With the age of the guitar it was stressed to begin with.

Would I have him fix it......No with a 20 yr old finish you will not buy an off the shelve product that will match...If you really want it fixed take to a reputable luthier the damaged area can be matched without refinishing the whole fretboard just the fields between the frets were there is damage.Having the frets that breakup the field should be simple job.

oldguy

January 3rd, 2009, 10:50 AM

This is a tough one....part of me wants to disagree with Old Guy....but there is a strong sense that if this was really incidental damage that it was not this guys fault at all.

But then again if he was really good...in the vein of Dan Erlewine he would have recognized that there were existing finish issues that may be aggravated by any tack of tape.

I also think he was in error of making any attempt at a correction without consulting you first.
Now my personal opinion is that if you are going to let him refinish any part of your neck, then he should do the entire neck including headstock so that it matches completely.

Good points, Kazz!:AOK:

Pickngrin

January 3rd, 2009, 02:36 PM

I agree that he should have consulted me when the problem arose, not after sealing it. That said, I am still on the fence about whether to agree to his offer to sand and refinish the fracetboard (but not headstock) with a toner to try to match the headstock. I'm still stuck on whether to just take it as is or have him do this other work at his own cost. I'm definitely not taking it elsewhere and investing more money into it.

M29

January 3rd, 2009, 03:47 PM

I would have him fix/match the spots and leave it at that. I would be hesitant to put any kind of tape on that fretboard down the road. There is some reason why the clear is coming off that neck, as is seen elsewhere near the body. To refinish the whole neck would be very expensive and take a long time if done with nitro lacquer. You could do just the fretboard as was mentioned but I think he could just do the spots and get a way with it, but I would not chance putting any kind of tape on the fretboard again.

M

Pickngrin

January 3rd, 2009, 04:43 PM

He phoned me again today. I still hadn't called him back because of my dilemma. Anyhow, he is being very honorable about this. He said that he ordered a vintage tint from Stew-Mac and proposed the following:

-sanding the first 3 frets, where the damage is, and attempting a match with the toner
-if it is not a good aesthetic match, he will sand down the fretboard and use the toner to approximate the existing tint (ie, the headstock and back of the neck)

I agreed to this and after speaking with him again, feel less guilty about doing so. He did tell me that he has never had this happen to a neck before and that he needs to re-evaluate his assessment and fees.

ZMAN

January 3rd, 2009, 07:29 PM

I agree with Spudman. He suddenly found out about a miracle cure. That he obviously hasn't tried before. But he will perfect it with your guitar.
Sorry but I would accept the relic theory and bring her home. Also you have not answered any of our questions on the guitar so we can't really tell you what to do. I mean a Squiier Bullet compared to a 60s strat would make a huge difference in our recommendations.
But I would still go with bring it home and live with it.

Pickngrin

January 3rd, 2009, 08:32 PM

Bloozcat

January 5th, 2009, 07:59 AM

It's easy in hindsight to make the right call here, but a difficult call the first time around sometimes. But, given that there was some evidence of finish peeling/bubbling at the 21st fret already, it probably would have been prudent for your tech to have used these instead of even the low adhesive type tape:
http://www.stewmac.com/product_images/1lg/3741/Fingerboard_Guards_Detail.jpg
I'd probably even opt for a little soft cloth cloth under the fret guard given the delicate condition of the finish. Again, I have the benefit of that hindsight I mentioned....

I can empathize with your tech. He may have used the tape a dozen times with no problems. But then there's always the exception.

Pickngrin

January 23rd, 2009, 08:16 PM

I still don't have the guitar back, but today the tech showed me the neck in progress, with toner on it but not lacquered. He said that he has an additional option for me -- he has purchased a new old stock Japanese 50s reissue Strat (the same guitar that I brought to him) and said that if I am not satisfied with the neck refinish, that he will swap the necks. I was surprised by that offer. What would you do?

M29

January 23rd, 2009, 10:06 PM

I would check the grain pattern of the other neck, check for any warp or twist and probably make the swap. I would be afraid the present neck would keep shedding it's finish in time and just be a pain. But it really depends on how good the neck you have is. If it is a beautiful playing neck and it has been great other than the finish, I might just keep it and be very careful when working on the fretboard.

IMHO of course:D

mrmudcat

January 24th, 2009, 09:49 PM

Pickngrin

January 28th, 2009, 07:32 AM

Also if you hope to keep any value (these jap strats are going up) id keep the original neck.(I f it is original matching neck!.To me its reliced you will have many more if ya play the thing and its not a closet queen;) Of course I have many frankenstrats but my jap foto-flame is staying the way she was born ... original .floyd rose and everything ;)

Mudcat -
If the two guitars are the exact same model (MIJ 50s reissue), you think that switching to the new (old stock) neck will negatively affect the value of my strat? I still haven't seen the final product of the refinished neck, hopefully will do so on Friday

Tynee

January 28th, 2009, 11:50 AM

Mudcat -
If the two guitars are the exact same model (MIJ 50s reissue), you think that switching to the new (old stock) neck will negatively affect the value of my strat? I still haven't seen the final product of the refinished neck, hopefully will do so on Friday

On the bright side, it sounds like this guy is willing to make it right. Sounds like a stand-up guy.

M29

January 28th, 2009, 01:56 PM

I forgot about keeping the parts together for resale value, that is important! I am always dealing with odd parts guitars. Definitely give that some thought. Hopefully it will look great and stay original.

M

Pickngrin

January 30th, 2009, 09:00 AM

Absolutely, he seems to be great about standing behind his work.

So, is there a consensus as to whether having a new neck taken from the same model/year guitar would decrease the resale value of my (1987 or 1988) MIJ 50s reissue Strat?

mrmudcat

January 30th, 2009, 10:18 AM

;) Any time you trade out original parts and a major one like neck/body/pups/bridge you should expect a loss of some original vlaue if unmolested.Of course things change.There is stilll alot who will pay $500 for a good strat!

My Opinion.;)

bigoldron

January 30th, 2009, 12:54 PM

You know what they say about opinions...

However, I'm with you Muddie on this one.

Pickngrin

February 5th, 2009, 09:58 AM

I dropped by the shop the other day and he showed me the refinished neck and the new (old stock, late 90s) 57 reissue neck. He said it makes no difference whatsoever to him which one I take. I wound up opting for the new neck after being certain that it was all the same to him. I'll be picking up my Strat on Tuesday...looking forward to it!
He's been very honorable about making things right and I will make sure to send people his way.

Pickngrin

March 20th, 2009, 07:36 PM

So I've had the Strat back for several weeks and I thought all was well. A few days ago, I realized that the guitar is fretting out (if that's what you call it when notes go dead when you try to bend) across all strings starting at the 17th fret. I don't know if possibly a change in the weather is responsible for this, or if I just didn't notice it earlier, or... ?
Does this sound like it might need a simple truss rod adjustment...or (please say no) more like the frets on the new neck need to be leveled??
I don't really want to bring my guitar back there after all of this.

thekiwidisciple

March 20th, 2009, 07:43 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK fretting out usually occurs on necks with smaller (rounder) radii. Do you know the radius of the new neck? Are there are high frets that you know of?

Pickngrin

March 20th, 2009, 07:44 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK fretting out usually occurs on necks with smaller (rounder) radii. Do you know the radius of the new neck? Are there are high frets that you know of?

I have no idea what the radius is, but it was taken from the exact same model guitar. I can't tell if there are any high frets. I will need to find a suitable straightedge

thekiwidisciple

March 20th, 2009, 07:53 PM

If there are any high frets you'll know when you're playing because you'll find two frets that produce the same note.:rotflmao:

It's a '50s RI neck? Could be wrong, but it sounds like a 7.25" fretboard radius. It's commonplace to have problems with bending necks with such a round radius.

oldguy

March 21st, 2009, 07:01 AM

Wow.
I think you should get a few more opinions on this one, maybe even start a new thread about it. I'd tend to say truss rod adjustment if you didn't notice it until now, I wouldn't think you'd have missed that problem this long. All my Strats can begin to fret out slightly, and with the tiniest adjustment, they're cured.
Missouri has cold, dry winters and hot, humid summers. I have to adjust my guitars accordingly. A little slow, easy truss rod tweaking is all it takes. Keeping the strings changed makes them play much nicer also. And............
they can play fine today, but not a week later. This is my fault, as I do not keep them in a finely tuned climate/hudmidity controlled environment, just hang 'em on a wall and use the house humidifier and dehumidifier depending on the season. They never go through a drastic change, but do go through some shifts as the seasons change.
Having said all that............. do you know how to check the neck and adjust it? If not, you should take it to someone who does, have it done, and learn how to do it yourself as well. It will save you lots of trips to the shop. I am no guitar tech, but I can do a basic setup and diagnose most problems given some time to study the situation. Don't go twisting on the truss rod if you don't know what you're doing!. I have guitars that adjust easily, barely move 'em and they straighten right up, the nuts on them turn very easily too.
I have others that require a very firm hand to adjust, and the necks shift very slowly. I think if I were to apply the same pressure on the truss rod in my Agile LP copy, the Switch Innovo, or the Wilburn Versatare as I do to adjust the two Roadhouse Strats I would most likely bust something for sure.
So don't go twisting on the truss rod unless you know what you're doing.

thekiwidisciple

March 21st, 2009, 06:43 PM

Wow.
I think you should get a few more opinions on this one,
Is the a polite way of telling me that I'm an idiot? :rotflmao:

oldguy

March 21st, 2009, 07:35 PM

No, no, not at all.:D
I'm still learning, by trial and error, that guitars (mine, anyway), may appear to need a certain thing done to correct a problem, when in fact it's something else causing the problem. With the vast amount of knowledge here I'm saying the more opinions and suggestions on dealing with a particular issue, the better. A friend of mine owns a beautiful Carvin, and was having problems with it fretting out and strings buzzing. He was about ready to send it off to be fixed after a guitar tech couldn't get it corrected, but instead had an old friend look at it. What he thought was a high fret or neck twist issue turned out to be nothing more than some very careful truss rod tweaking. I played it two weeks ago, and it plays like a dream.:AOK:

Pickngrin

March 23rd, 2009, 07:17 PM

There are no high frets (I am not getting the same note on any 2 frets). I tried sighting down the neck to see if there is a curve, but I don't know that I'd notice it if it was there. I'm not sure whether to try raising the saddles on the strings. I'm hesitant to adjust the truss rod without being sure that that's the answer. Hmm.